Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[GilTheGreat19]

Just caught up with the feed, morning y'all.

Commander Video COULD return as a Mii Costume but yes, his absence is quite strange.

^ We could discuss this Commander Video topic more, but while I don't want to switch topics TOO much, why did the Rayman series get more representation in Sm4sh? Barbara and Globlox aren't anywhere in Ultimate rn.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Just caught up with the feed, morning y'all.

Commander Video COULD return as a Mii Costume but yes, his absence is quite strange.

^ We could discuss this Commander Video topic more, but while I don't want to switch topics TOO much, why did the Rayman series get more representation in Sm4sh? Barbara and Globlox aren't anywhere in Ultimate rn.

I’m more curious why the Saki Amamiya AT was cut

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I’m more curious why the Saki Amamiya AT was cut

I actually forgot he was cut until you brought it up.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I’m more curious why the Saki Amamiya AT was cut

Learned of this last week and forgot about that until now, that's a darn good point.
She could've been planned to be upgraded, can't think of a better reason.

Doubt legal reasoning had anything to do with it.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Learned of this last week and forgot about that until now, that's a darn good point.
She could've been planned to be upgraded, can't think of a better reason.

Doubt legal reasoning had anything to do with it.

He

Saki’s a boy, though he does look kinda feminine so I get the confusion lul

 

[osby]

I’m more curious why the Saki Amamiya AT was cut

Probably the same reason why most stuff gets the ax: Limited development time + low priority.

I don't think Sakurai and his team go through the Smash 4 content, looking for things to cut, it's just you can't carry everything into a sequel.

 

[Invisible Shiny Bulbasaur]

I actually forgot he was cut until you brought it up.

It's easy to forget since there are so many assists, and he was in both Brawl and For Wii U, the latter of which was so close to Ultimate's release date and graphical style that I often forget which assist was in which game.
I think Saki was cut just for the sake of keeping the number of assists from getting out of hand, since he would have been very easy to port from Wii U to Switch. It's just a process of elimination after that.

I miss having him there, personally. I liked having some S&P content in Smash.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

It's easy to forget since there are so many assists, and he was in both Brawl and For Wii U, the latter of which was so close to Ultimate's release date and graphical style that I often forget which assist was in which game.
I think Saki was cut just for the sake of keeping the number of assists from getting out of hand, since he would have been very easy to port from Wii U to Switch. It's just a process of elimination after that.

I miss having him there, personally. I liked having some S&P content in Smash.

At the very least his presence remains as a Spirit and Mii Costume so it’s not like he’s fully gone

 

[ShrimpScampi]

I’m more curious why the Saki Amamiya AT was cut

I miss him and the Jill AT from Drill Dozer tbh. Sin & Punishment and Drill Dozer were both great. I’m glad she & Saki at least have spirits though

 

[GilTheGreat19]

He

Saki’s a boy, though he does look kinda feminine so I get the confusion lul

Whoops

 

[Mapusaurus]

A tales of rep is the most likely rep imo, do you guys agree or do you have confidence in someone else?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

A tales of rep is the most likely rep imo, do you guys agree or do you have confidence in someone else.

I'm expecting another swordfighter in general coming with the Lloyd Mii. If anyone from Tales at this point I'm expecting Yuri.

39 out of the 40 Sm4sh Miis returning. I feel it's too late in the game that I wouldn't understand why Lloyd would be the exception having one return when all the others had.

 

[Mapusaurus]

I'm expecting another swordfighter in general coming with the Lloyd Mii. If anyone from Tales at this point I'm expecting Yuri.

39 out of the 40 Sm4sh Miis returning. I feel it's too late in the game that I wouldn't understand why Lloyd would be the exception having one return when all the others had.

I can see Yuri getting in too, but I don't get your logic, Lloyd was seen as the most obvious choice for a tales mii costume by Sakurai in an interview I can't see how that merit would mean that he is put behind the others.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I can see Yuri getting in too, but I don't get your logic, Lloyd was seen as the most obvious choice for a tales mii costume by Sakurai in an interview I can't see how that merit would mean that he is put behind the others.

I mean after having all the Sm4sh Miis returning and this late into the game? You'd expect one out of the 40 to get in? Sorry I don't see it honestly.

Lloyd I'm feeling is bound to be last in line coming back as a Mii with a swordfighter character.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

A tales of rep is the most likely rep imo, do you guys agree or do you have confidence in someone else?

If Heihachi’s, Geno’s, Gil’s and the Monster Hunters’ costumes returned, I feel Lloyd’s days are numbered imo

We could get a different Namco character like Yuri, Velvet, KOS-MOS, someone from Soul Calibur, someone from Dark Souls etc. but Namco seems to be too prideful to add another character, I guess they’ll think it’s nepotism cuz they’re working on the game or something idk

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If Heihachi’s, Geno’s, Gil’s and the Monster Hunters’ costumes returned, I feel Lloyd’s days are numbered imo

This too. Especially Monster Hunter being the juggernaut that series is right now.

It's Yuri or no one from Tales at this point.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Probably the same reason why most stuff gets the ax: Limited development time + low priority.

I don't think Sakurai and his team go through the Smash 4 content, looking for things to cut, it's just you can't carry everything into a sequel.

At the same time, Saki got a new Mii costume in Ultimate, pretty weird to cut the AT due to low priorities but include a new costume of him at the same time

 

[Technomage]

Here's a topic about a series that hasn't gotten much talk in regards to reps: An Etrian Odyssey character.

Some of the suggested reps I've seen include the Protector from Etrian Odysseys 1 and 2, and the Highlander from Etrian Odyssey Ulntold, but my preferred pick for a rep from that series would be the Imperial from Etrian Odyssey 4 (since I love vibroblades). I haven't finished my moveset idea for it, but here's a great deal of it:


Attributes:

• Heavyweight
  
• Slow move speed
  
• Low jump height
  
• High falling speed
  
• Strong attack power
  
• Disjointed hitboxes
  
• Drive attacks deal a high amount of damage and knockback

Special Attributes:

• Overheat Meter:
  
  • Fills up whenever you use a "Drive" attack (excluding Overdrive), and cannot use those attacks unless its empty
    
  • Trying to use a Smash Attack while overheated instead causes you to perform its respective Tilt counterpart
    
  • Naturally lowers by itself every second, but can be lowered further by certain moves
    
  • Sword attacks deal more damage while overheated
    
  • Uses some moves from other classes that use regular swords, since Drive Blades can use those moves, too
    

Moveset:

• Neutral Special:
  
  • Frost Edge
    
  • A stronger, slower version of Pyra's Flame Nova (but spins around swinging the sword physically instead of telekinetically), but with an ice element instead of a fire element
    
  • Fills the Overheat Meter depending on how long it's been held
    
  • Cannot be used while overheated
    
• Side Special:
  
  • Shock Drive
    
  • A stronger, slower version of Ike's Quick Draw, but with an electric element to it
    
  • Fills the Overheat Meter depending on how long it's been held
    
  • While Overheated, uses Charge Edge, a weaker version of the Drive attack with no electric element
    
• Up Special:
  
  • Flame Drive
    
  • A stronger, slower version of Cloud's Climhazzard, but with a fire element to it; also, the second hit has more range due to fire explosion that generates upon hitting the ground
    
  • Fills the Overheat Meter, filling it even more if the second part of the attack is performed
    
  • While Overheated, uses Massive Edge, a weaker version of the Drive attack with no fire element; also, the second hit instead generates a shockwave, upon hitting the ground, that deals typeless damage
    
• Down Special:
  
  • Accel Drive
    
  • An aerial slamming move similar to the likes of Bowser's Bowser Bomb, Yoshi's Yoshi Bomb, and Mii Brawler's Head-On Assault, but even stronger with its hit having more range upon hitting the ground due to the light explosion it generates
    
  • Fills the Overheat Meter
    
  • Cannot be used while overheated
    
• Final Smash:
  
  • Overdrive
    
  • The Imperial slams its Drive Blade onto the ground, and then many powerful red lasers erupt from the ground, damaging any opponents in their path.
    
• Neutral Attack:
  
  • Sharp/Cool Edge
    
  • A two-hit jab; the first being Sharp Edge, the second being Cool Edge
    
  • Both hits reduce Overheat status when they hit an enemy (with Cool Edge offering a slightly higher reduction)
    
• Forward Tilt:
  
  • Double Strike
    
  • Two sword slashes
    
  • A two-hit move similar to Snake's Forward Tilt
    
  • Normally used by the Landsknecht class in EO 4, but can be used by Imperials if they have the Landsknecht as their subclass
    
• Up Tilt:
  
• Down Tilt:
  
  • Trip Edge
    
  • Low sword swing in front of user
    
• Dash Attack:
  
  • Sonic Raid
    
  • A typical dashing sword attack
    
  • Normally used by the Landsknecht class in EO 4, but can be used by Imperials if they have the Landsknecht as their subclass
    
• Forward/Up/Down Smash:
  
  • Assault Drive
    
  • Basically like the Smash attacks used by Ike and Ganondorf, but slower and stronger, with more range
    
  • Fills the Overheat Meter depending on how long it's been held
    
• Neutral Air:
  
  • Spiral Slice
    
  • Similar to Cloud's Neutral Air
    
  • Normally used by the Landsknecht class in EO 4, but can be used by Imperials if they have the Landsknecht as their subclass
    
• Back Throw:
  
  • Throws the opponent backwards, then strikes the opponent with the Drive Blade
    
• Shield Special:
  
  • Heat Sink
    
  • Increases the speed of reduction of the Overheat Meter when held
    

Alternate costumes would consist of all four Imperial character portraits and their alternate colors, like in these pics:

Anyone else (especially if they know a lot about Etrian Odyssey) wanna add to the topic?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

But if Lloyd does manage to get in despite the odds against him right now.

I'll eat my own words.

Anyone supporting him can tag this quote if they want.

 

[Perkilator]

Here's my summoning circle:




Smash x Crash

At E3

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Here's my summoning circle:




Smash x Crash

At E3

That's a triangle, now it'll never happen as Crash's invite got sent to tbe Bermuda Triangle

 

[Louie G.]

Lloyd I'm feeling is bound to be last in line coming back as a Mii with a swordfighter character.

I’ve already mentioned this a bunch, but I think people are going at this the wrong way assuming one type of Mii costume needs to come with the same type of character. Capcom and Konami characters came sporadically with totally unrelated fighters and Namco characters seem to be following suit.

Not that I don’t think another swordie is possible, but I don’t like that one of the main reasons people are anticipating it is because “Lloyd has to come back with someone”.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

At the same time, Saki got a new Mii costume in Ultimate, pretty weird to cut the AT due to low priorities but include a new costume of him at the same time

Maybe Mii Costumes take less time so they thought they were making up to the small fanbase of the character by going "Hey we didn't have time to bring back his AT, but here's a Mii Costume to make up for it"?

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

A tales of rep is the most likely rep imo, do you guys agree or do you have confidence in someone else?

I could see Yuri happen, honestly.

I don't think it's the most likely thing, but I'm not ruling him out.

 

[Brother AJ]

So......do we want to do a list of which characters that are heavily speculated and may have a big chance before E3? I mean, nothing bad can really come out of it and there's always the chance that we do a big list of compiled characters and we get none of them, making for a possible good/bad/whatever surprise.

So these are who I think have a shot, but I've put the most likely IMHO in bold:

Dante
Dragonborn
Master Chief
Crash Bandicoot
Rayman
Sora
Tails
Dr. Eggman

I'm going to go all in too and say that I'm positive we'll see at least ONE of these characters at E3.

How would you guys feel if this was the final bit of DLC for Ultimate?

I would invent and convert to the religion of Sakuraism...

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Wanna bring up Tekken real quick..
I feel like Sakurai could easily just go "Aight I figured out how to implement Tekken mechanics in Smash" but say "Hmm I think we'll go with Jin Kazama instead of Heihachi" or something.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I’ve already mentioned this a bunch, but I think people are going at this the wrong way assuming one type of Mii costume needs to come with the same type of character. Capcom and Konami characters came sporadically with totally unrelated fighters and Namco characters seem to be following suit.

Not that I don’t think another swordie is possible, but I don’t like that one of the main reasons people are anticipating it is because “Lloyd has to come back with someone”.

To be fair, Heihachi’s costume came with Ryu in 4 and Min Min in Ultimate - both fighting game characters

Gil came with either Corrin or Bayo in 4 - no real reason there, but with Steve in Ultimate. Minecraft and Tower of Druaga focus on exploration

Lloyd... was dropped out of the blue sans character in 4. Pyra/Mythra woulda been the prime wave to drop Lloyd’s Mii in, maybe Sephiroth’s too for both Geno and Lloyd being RPG characters. But no...

So either Lloyd gets dropped with a Swordfighter, JRPG character, Namco character, someone who shares a very innocuous common trait like literally just wearing red (like Reimu for example) or... they repeat Smash 4 with a surprise Mii update. I mean they did do a surprise stage update so

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Wanna bring up Tekken real quick..
I feel like Sakurai could easily just go "Aight I figured out how to implement Tekken mechanics in Smash" but say "Hmm I think we'll go with Jin Kazama instead of Heihachi" or something.

Soulcalibur's gameplay implements I hear is suppose to be much easier then Tekken's.

This is where Nightmare wins babeh!

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Wanna bring up Tekken real quick..
I feel like Sakurai could easily just go "Aight I figured out how to implement Tekken mechanics in Smash" but say "Hmm I think we'll go with Jin Kazama instead of Heihachi" or something.

Normally, I'd think "maybe"

But the Heihachi outfit being already released in Ultimate makes me heavily doubt a Tekken rep since they could've just put Heihachi on the Mii outfit wave of a Tekken character.

I can totally see Soulcalibur though. Not quite the same as Tekken, I know, but they're both games that can be very hard to translate into 2D.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So these are who I think have a shot, but I've put the most likely IMHO in bold:

Dante
Dragonborn
Master Chief
Crash Bandicoot
Rayman
Sora
Tails
Dr. Eggman

I'd throw Chosen Undead, Chun-Li, and Yuri in there too.

 

[Mapusaurus]

If Heihachi’s, Geno’s, Gil’s and the Monster Hunters’ costumes returned, I feel Lloyd’s days are numbered imo

We could get a different Namco character like Yuri, Velvet, KOS-MOS, someone from Soul Calibur, someone from Dark Souls etc. but Namco seems to be too prideful to add another character, I guess they’ll think it’s nepotism cuz they’re working on the game or something idk

I see many arguments about how something does or doesn't disconfirm and most of the time the arguments are pretty bad because there is no nuance, so I'll play devils advocate towards my own. Assuming costumes in 4 do disconfirm would mean that, at least towards the point when Lloyd was decided to be a costume, Sakurai had a concrete, maybe not including some newer characters, but concrete lineup of characters from which they can then assign mii costumes towards ones that are not in said list. If you think that then sure, I would agree with you but even then that doesn't hurt Yuri or anyone else who could also be added with the Lloyd costume being an act of throwing a bone to tales fans especially if Yuri was slated for late into the pass . Another reason you might think all 4 costumes disconfirm is if you think mii costumes are only given to characters that are seen to be undesirable as full characters. But this is thrown out the window by the inclusion of Inkling, Isabelle, K rool and Chrom who all had costumes in 4. I'll also preface this all with the fact that I don't want Lloyd/Yuri, I just see them as an inevitability

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Soulcalibur's gameplay implements I hear is suppose to be much easier then Tekken's.

This is where Nightmare wins babeh!

It's mostly just the fact that it's not as technically-demanding as Tekken, with smaller combos, simpler inputs and better mobility.

Having a dedicated block button and one less normal attack button (3 compared to Tekken's four) help since it trims down the amount of moves Sakurai has to see in order to study the character for moveset concepts, but aren't really things that make Soulcalibur more likely than Tekken.

 

[Technomage]

But the Heihachi outfit being already released in Ultimate makes me heavily doubt a Tekken rep since they could've just put Heihachi on the Mii outfit wave of a Tekken character.

What if they were to use the elderly version of Heihachi for his fighter, to differentiate him from his Mii costume?

 

[Gengar84]

Wanna bring up Tekken real quick..
I feel like Sakurai could easily just go "Aight I figured out how to implement Tekken mechanics in Smash" but say "Hmm I think we'll go with Jin Kazama instead of Heihachi" or something.

I personally prefer Jin over Heihachi. I think he’d make for a cool Smash character if Sakurai decided to go with him instead.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

What if they were to use the elderly version of Heihachi for his fighter, to differentiate him from his Mii costume?

You... You missed my point entirely.

My point was if they planned on a Tekken character, why have the returning Tekken outfit outside of that Tekken character's wave?

 

[osby]

If Heihachi’s, Geno’s, Gil’s and the Monster Hunters’ costumes returned, I feel Lloyd’s days are numbered imo

We could get a different Namco character like Yuri, Velvet, KOS-MOS, someone from Soul Calibur, someone from Dark Souls etc. but Namco seems to be too prideful to add another character, I guess they’ll think it’s nepotism cuz they’re working on the game or something idk

I don't get this logic, tbh. Sakurai/Nintendo decides which characters are going to be added, not Bandai-Namco. Sure, they can refuse to add one but it seems weird going rejecting an offer because it would be favoritism when it's not even their idea in the first place.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Here's my summoning circle:




Smash x Crash

At E3

Ah HAAAAAAAAAAA but I have my OWN summoning circle! Composed of all manner of dark magic and demonic sigils. A combination of electromagnetic energy fields and Goetian forces! Both unified field of consciousness and the devil himself are at play here!

MAY THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB BE SACRIFICED, ITS HEAD UPON A PIKE, AND ENTANGLE WITH MY EMOTIONALLY CHARGED STATE!

 

[Technomage]

You... You missed my point entirely.

My point was if they planned on a Tekken character, why have the returning Tekken outfit outside of that Tekken character's wave?

I don't know; maybe they'd want to have it both ways, where they both return Heihachi's Mii costume (due to feeling obligated to make all Mii costumes (at least the 3rd-party ones) return) and add Heihachi himself as a fighter, where Heihachi himself reps his elderly self while the Mii costume reps his younger self (so they don't have to put in the effort to add the younger version as one of Fighter Heihachi's alternate costumes)?

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Wouldn't Nightmare from Soulcalibur create complications if he were to be attempted to be implemented? iirc, Siegfried becomes Nightmare or something along those lines, as he was possessed.

 

[JustKindaBoredUKno]

Here's my summoning circle

Here's my attempt at real life voodoo: