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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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7NATOR

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So, I've been doing some thinking about the voice theory. I know it had to do with the files, rather than the UI. Does anyone have a link to the original findings that showed that it held true for Byleth? Remember, it was never about the ACTUAL sound test UI, it was about how they were list in the files.

Also, thinking about the music theory as well - that there's room for two new series'. That might just be based solely on UI but does anyone have more info on that too?

I think it's interesting to consider, provided they both have merit and hold true, that we MAY be seeing a combination of the following:
  • Three new characters each with voice lines
  • Two new characters, one with an alt, and one more mute character
  • Two new series' and one returning series
  • Two characters from one new series and one additional new series.
I don't think they'd really do two characters from one series in one pass but considering Tales Of has big time popularity, Phoenix and Edgeworth are both equally popular, Kiryu and Majima could both be in, etc, it's fun to think about!
This post is from the same guy that developed the Theory

(1) Official - Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion | Page 4284 | Smashboards

It's just based off the UI, not of any Game data ingame

I guess I'll put some thoughts I've been hammering on out there, mostly related to Miis and spirits. We've not gotten any Arc Sys costumes yet but we have gotten spirits (The River-City Smash event) in the game and like the Octopath and Mana spirits showed Square has still been on board with collaboration. There could always be some Double Dragon or Guilty Gear costume down the line but for now there seemingly is none.

Is it tinfoily to question if the big N would only go to Arc Sys for a bunch of PNGs and nothing from one of their flagship fighting games?
No it's not. I do find it strange that their Flagship Series is not represented in the game at all. I don't expect an Arc System Works Character playable because I don't think they spoil their precense with a Spirit Event first. However I do think a Costume is likely, but likely it would come with Fighting game Character, or something like that
 

Rie Sonomura

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Yeah the fact both ArcSys and Ubisoft got a post game spirit event (the former)/Mii Costumes without a playable character (the latter) doesn’t make me confident in a rep. Same with Bethesda.

Square Enix, and possibly Bandai Namco, are safe cause they already have playable characters beforehand
 

Momotsuki

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A Galar rep feels like a shoe-in (unfortunately) for the next Smash's or an Ultimate port's set of newcomers - or even post-pass DLC if we get any. But this pass? Nah. Yain't seeing none of that rubbish here.
 
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Rie Sonomura

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A Galar rep feels like a shoe-in (unfortunately) for the next Smash's or an Ultimate port's set of newcomers - or even post-pass DLC if we get any. But this pass? Nah. Yain't seeing none of that rubbish here.
Speaking of Ult Deluxe, I NEED Officer Howard from Astral Chain if that happens
 

Wunderwaft

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A Galar rep feels like a shoe-in (unfortunately) for the next Smash's or an Ultimate port's set of newcomers. But this pass? Nah. Yain't seeing none of that rubbish here.
If anything, by the time the next Smash game arrives Gen 9 would be freshly baked and ready to be repped while Gen 8 would be old news. If there was a time to rep Gen 8 it would be in this pass, if not, then their time will pass away like many others before them.
 

Strife

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Yeah the fact both ArcSys and Ubisoft got a post game spirit event (the former)/Mii Costumes without a playable character (the latter) doesn’t make me confident in a rep. Same with Bethesda.

Square Enix, and possibly Bandai Namco, are safe cause they already have playable characters beforehand
I don't get this. All getting a post game spirit event means is tat the developers are still on board with smash ultimate. Them having/not having a rep already in the game has no bearing on that. Its a good sign for them having a rep either way.
 

RileyXY1

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A Galar rep feels like a shoe-in (unfortunately) for the next Smash's or an Ultimate port's set of newcomers - or even post-pass DLC if we get any. But this pass? Nah. Yain't seeing none of that rubbish here.
Not for a next Smash. Another new gen will come to take priority.
 

Zema

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I think Monster Hunter is not likely for the pass given Imran Khan's recent comments. I fully believe Byleth stole his spot, but if Monster Hunter does appear, I would expect it to be either in March or the character after the one in March. However, if we do get another Capcom rep, I would love to see Phoenix Wright show up. Chun-Li is also definitely a big name that would be right at home in a game like Smash (more so than Ken, to be honest), so I actually fully expect her to get in at some point in the future.

Eggman also seems like a pretty possible choice, but I don't know if I would put him above a Pokemon in terms of possibility right now. It feels like we're due another one of those sometime soon.

For the sake of speculation, I will also offer my wildest prediction;

Geno's not completely out of the running. Not giving him a Deluxe Mii is really strange to me, to the point that it makes me question if there's a full character coming later down the line, and having a Deluxe costume alongside that would just be confusing. This is compounded by the fact that Sakurai hasn't said a word about him, which is doubly weird given the fact he knows how popular a character he is. I guess we'll see if he says something in an upcoming Famitsu column.

Why release a Mii costume before the character? Well, if I were Nintendo and Sakurai told me "I want Geno" I would say "Okay... but he's not really all that popular or well known. Make him a costume first, so his fans will buy him. Then, after that, you can make him a full character."
 
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Spatman

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Given different theories floating around right now, this is probably how I'm feeling about the rest of the pass at the moment:


Now, these are who I'm personally classifying as the "safe picks" in my eyes: Characters that got a lot seemingly going for them right now (in my opinion), and wouldn't be additions that would really surprise me at all given how things have turned out in the past and the information we've been receiving recently.

My reasonings here for the final three are as follows:

Most people here will probably recognize me as someone who would always bring Dante up as a frontrunner for this pass given the various aspects surrounding him and Nintendo. You have the interviews talking about how he should have games on Switch first with games coming very soon after that interview, fan demand, a flashy move set that appeals to Sakurai's desire to introduce new mechanics: Dante seemed like a pretty solid Capcom pick to me.

...Until Sephiroth muddled things by being our first third-party franchise added in with already preestablished content in the game, and the recent Chun-Li rumor making this whole situation around Capcom a whole lot more interesting and less clear cut than I originally assumed.

Don't get me wrong, Dante still has a pretty great chance: Sephiroth does nothing to take away from the great points he's got going for him, but the more we've looked at Chun-Li recently, I think there's an extremely strong case to make for her. The points @Shroob's brought up in her favor recently make her look extremely convincing to me as our potential Capcom rep. In fact, when you compare her to Dante, she has pretty much just as much in her favor as he does:

- March is looking extremely good for a Capcom rep given Monster Hunter Rise's release being an easy tie in with the missing MH costumes, and the amiibo restock hinting at a March released fighter #9. This is a point of interest for both Dante and Chun-Li.

- SF2's 30th anniversary is apparently in March.

- There's still an immense amount of SF content to pull from for Smash.

- She's an extremely iconic video game female that would make huge waves if she was added in.

- Similar to how where Cloud goes, Sephiroth follows, Chun-Li has a habit of following Ryu into crossovers.

Now admittedly, some of this can be pretty tin-foil, but I think these points have enough merit to make Capcom speculation more interesting and nuanced than "It's 100% gonna be Dante!"

However, I'm not discounting Dante: I definitely could still see funny pizza man win, but I definitely think he has competition at the moment.

Ryu is sitting in an extremely good spot right now IMHO: His biggest competition from his home company was unfortunately deconfirmed recently (RIP Atelier :c), Koei and Nintendo are in the same chummy spot Nintendo was with Platinum before Bayo got added, and he's an NES icon that would fit right in with the cast. There's not too much to say about him other than he just looks really likely right now given company relations and potential marketing prospects with the rumored rereleases of Ninja Gaiden games coming assumedly next year on Switch. Could all of this amount to nothing? Yes, but honestly, I'd be kind of surprised if it did.

Before anyone mentions it: Yes, I do think Vergeben's comments on Ryu are also a factor, but given his track record of...one out of nine fighters for DLC so far, I'm hesitant to say he's really too much of a factor in speculation anymore. More of an interesting tidbit.

Also, no, I don't think NateDrake is a factor in this at all: Dude's info is way too flimsy and he was staking his claim on Ryu being next, lol. Not to mention it was most likely speculation on his end anyway.

This one admittedly comes from some level of bias, because yes, I really do want Cinderace in this game, lol.

This topic has been beaten to death in this thread though, so I'll keep my reasoning brief:

- Scorbunny is a main character within the anime at the moment, and odds are it'll inevitably evolve into a Cinderace. We know for a fact the anime plays a pretty huge part into Pokemon choices for Smash.

- Pokemon's 30th is next year, and TPC will almost assuredly be going ham with stuffing Pokemon into everything it can.

- To be completely honest, in my eyes, Pokemon is the only Nintendo first party on the table at the moment that looks primed for content given the overall lack of major SwSh content in the game and the unfortunate circumstances of Xenoblade. The small spirit event is a factor to all of this, yes, but Sakurai's made it clear Pokemon doesn't work like other Smash inclusions, and we still don't have an Isle of Armor or Crown Tundra spirit event, nor or the final evos of the Starters or Pokemon like Toxtricity spirits yet.

- Smash's history of frontloading the major eye-grabbing characters first and finishing off with more marketing based picks.

What does everyone else here think? I want to make another one of these posts for more left field picks as well, so expect that to come maybe sometime later tonight.
next year is Pokémon's 30th? what?
I thought they started in 1996
 

7NATOR

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I don't get this. All getting a post game spirit event means is tat the developers are still on board with smash ultimate. Them having/not having a rep already in the game has no bearing on that. Its a good sign for them having a rep either way.
Pretty much the logic is that Nintendo wouldn't spoil a Company's Presence in the game with a Spirit event if they were getting a Character later on

Arc System Works is a new company, So I think them getting a Spirit Event might suggest that they aren't going much further than that. Their spirit Event was also added when Pass 2 was In active production, so that just adds to it


A Galar rep feels like a shoe-in (unfortunately) for the next Smash's or an Ultimate port's set of newcomers - or even post-pass DLC if we get any. But this pass? Nah. Yain't seeing none of that rubbish here.
Well, I don't think all the Galar Pokemon are Rubbish (Toxicrcity looks cool), but I think with the Team Rocket Costume, The Spirit Event, and that honestly the best time to add a Pokemon has passed (If the same reasoning was that they wanted a character from a game people are playing now)
 

Guynamednelson

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A Galar rep feels like a shoe-in (unfortunately) for the next Smash's or an Ultimate port's set of newcomers - or even post-pass DLC if we get any. But this pass? Nah. Yain't seeing none of that rubbish here.
I'd at least be glad gen 9 isn't getting rushed out the door if that happens.
 

MooMew64

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next year is Pokémon's 30th? what?
I thought they started in 1996
According to a quick search I did just to check (I couldn't remember myself, lol), Pokemon started in 1995, so next year is indeed the 30th anniversary.

lol disregard this post my math was wrong :239:
 
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Momotsuki

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If anything, by the time the next Smash game arrives Gen 9 would be freshly baked and ready to be repped while Gen 8 would be old news. If there was a time to rep Gen 8 it would be in this pass, if not, then their time will pass away like many others before them.
No Galar period? That sounds even better! :092:
I'm definitely down for a Pokemon from any previous gens though if we get a 30th anniversary pick. Unova trainer, perhaps? Mimikyu?
 
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SpectreJordan

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I suppose in this case Brazil would be Discord but whatever

Hello everyone!

It's been a while, huh? Never really thought I'd come back here (or that we'd ever get a new spec thread), but here I am. And just in time to break up speculation on an incredibly dumb topic (I honestly can't believe we're back on Byleth—people really just gotta accept that Byleth is in the game because Nintendo wanted them to be and not for any other inane, conspiratorial reason).

Anyways, I've been chilling and casually speculating in Discord for the past couple of months, and it's been really nice. I don't have much time to post on forums nowadays given my personal life and immense backlog—and to be honest my relationship with speculation in the past was rather unhealthy, which is why I left. However, right now I find myself I'm in lull with my work and a flash of inspiration to write a long-form speculation piece for old time's sake.

Which is why, returning for one night only, tehponycorn presents:
The Case for Gordon Freeman

  • As always, I'll check my bias at the door—I don't have any. The closest I've ever gotten to touching Half-Life personally is a couple of games of CS:GO and TF2 I played literal years ago, as well as the countless Half-Life 3 jokes online (as a Kingdom Hearts fan, I can sympathize).
  • I'd like to thank everyone over on the Discord for providing support and encouragement for this piece. I probably wouldn't be posting this if y'all hadn't encouraged me to do so. @Luigi The President first put this idea in my head, so credit to her where it's due.
  • I'd specifically like to thank Wunderwaft Wunderwaft for helping me refine my points and providing some additional sources to strengthen my arguments. He's the owner of the Gordon Freeman thread, so if you find yourself convinced by my argument and want to support the character, feel free to head on over there and add yourself to the list of supporters (such as myself)!
  • Finally like to thank @NonSpecificGuy for unbanning my account lol. Don't worry I didn't break any rules I just didn't trust myself to actually leave back when I left.
Since my departure in September, Smash Speculation has been turned on its head with the reveals of Steve Minecraft and Sephiroth. Both shattered fan expectations and established new precedents, showing us that the criteria with which we as speculators judged the likelihood of characters is, at best, faulty, and, at worst, is completely invalid. It feels like the sky is the limit, and if you were to ask me who I thought was coming next I wouldn't know what to tell you.

While Steve and Sephiroth are both monumental reveals in of themselves, I feel like there's still room for another bombshell reveal. It's clear that Sakurai and Nintendo aren't pulling any punches this time around, and returning to the idea of Smash Bros Ultimate "is a celebration of gaming" that Sakurai mentioned in the Byleth Presentation, it's feasible to think that they're going for broke and pulling in the biggest icons they can grab. At this point I wouldn't rule out anyone, including previously thought "impossible" characters such as Gordon Freeman, who I'll be arguing for in this essay.

I'll start by discussing Valve, Steam, and the nature of PC gaming in Japan, specifically mentioning the rise of Steam as a PC gaming platform in Japan. Next, I'll detail the relationship between Nintendo and Valve and dismissing the notion that the two have no business relationship or are enemies of one another. I'll then conclude by talking about the Half-Life series, its influential nature within the realm of PC gaming, its history and future, and the respect and acclaim it receives from Japanese companies and developers.
I don't think Valve needs any sort of major introduction. They're quite literally the largest and most influential PC gaming company, not only because of their beloved franchises (and inability to count to 3 when it comes to sequels), but because of their digital video game distribution platform, Steam. Steam is by far the most common way of acquiring and playing PC games, with its share only just now being encroached upon by competitors such as Epic Games and GOG. Regardless, Steam consistently pulls in massive numbers of users. In August 2017 Valve reported that Steam saw 67 million monthly active players and 33 million daily active players, as well as 27 million first-time purchasers since January 2016–all of which are significant indicators of size and growth. In January 2018 they set a new concurrent user record with 18.5 million concurrent users, a record which has been beaten twice and now sits at 24.7 million concurrent users as of December 2020. Valve can reasonably be credited for the rise of PC Gaming itself through the development and promotion of their Steam platform, which shows in their ubiquity in the field and their massive userbase.

Also of note is Steam's prominence in Eastern markets. While not as prominent as in American or European markets, in 2017 Asian markets made up 17% of total Steam sales–not an insignificant number. Indeed, PC gaming is on the rise in Japan. A 2018 Famitsu report estimated that there were 15 million PC gamers compared 23 million console players in 2017, and a BCN Retail report from around the same time found an 80% increase in gaming PC sales at one store location compared to the previous year. Another indicator of the growth of PC gaming in Japan would be the adoption of Steam as a platform with which to release major Japanese titles. Companies such as Sega, Square Enix, Capcom, and Bandai-Namco among others, smelling the large amounts of money, have made it a habit to release their major titles on Steam. While primarily intended for abroad markets, this acknowledgement lends validity to PC gaming domestically as well. While not as significant as other means of gaming, PC gaming is becoming increasingly prevalent in Japan–not counting the fact that many prominent game developers, such as Sakurai, acknowledged PC gaming before its growth. But I shouldn't get ahead of myself—I'll come back to this point.

"but tehponycorn!!1!" you say, "Nintendo and Valve are sworn enemies and have a blood rivalry going back decades! No way would they work together on Smash!!"

to which I say,
View attachment 296727

While it is true that Gabe Newell is on the record discussing Valve's jealousy of Nintendo, taking a look at the full quote provides a different picture:


Valve doesn't resent Nintendo or anything like that. Instead, they respect Nintendo's capability to model new hardware and software simultaneously among other abilities. Looking closer into the relationship between Nintendo and Valve, it's clear that the two share a mutual respect for one another, and it's less that they hate each other and more that things have never lined up right for them to work together.

For one, there's a Portal game on the eShop right now. While not developed by Valve, they're clearly okay releasing games on Nintendo hardware—I'd also argue that this is the technicality Gordon needs to meet the "must appear on a Nintendo console to be in Smash" rule, but the lineup of DLC we've gotten has broken fanrule after fanrule, and the criteria for this rule continues to be stretched further and further that I doubt it even matters at this point, but I digress. We also know that Gabe Newell met with Nintendo executives around 2011-2012 to discuss a joint business venture that, unfortunately, did not work out. You'd think the trail ends there, but it doesn't. Thanks to a confirmed source code leak that included internal company communications, we know that Nintendo reached out to Valve themselves in early 2016, offering 6 figures for an exclusive Half-Life game on the Switch, which would've supposedly been named Half-Life Tactics. While the pastebin of the leak has, unfortunately, been taken down, Wunderwaft Wunderwaft managed to post the most important parts in the Gordon Freeman thread. I'll only be quoting the most important parts below, so please head over there if you'd like to read more:



Unfortunately, said project was canceled for an unknown reason, though it is commonly speculated that Valve was afraid of the negative reception of the first Half-Life release in years being a Nintendo exclusive.

I think the most important thing to take away from the above leak is that Nintendo knows the value of the Half Life series. Just as we know Nintendo paid money for Monster Hunter Rise to be a timed exclusive, they would've paid money for an exclusive Half-Life game. This is especially important when we consider negotiations for Smash Bros. are known to have occurred over the span of years, such as in the case of Steve, whose negotiations go back to at least 2017. If we further revisit the Dropped Deals leak (which SharkLord SharkLord posted a very nice summary of) posted shortly after Ultimate's release date, it becomes feasible to think that Nintendo, knowing the value of the Half-Life series, negotiated for Gordon as Smash DLC but ended up putting it on the backburner as the result of the exclusive deal falling through. If they're revisiting previous negotiations, it's further feasible that they would return to their negotiations for Gordon regardless of any deal given the notoriety of the Half-Life series and its recent resurgence (which is, again, a point I'll talk about later). Of course, negotiations could have also taken place at a later time unrelated to the exclusive deal entirely.

Tying into this, Gabe Newell is also on the record saying that Valve would collaborate with Nintendo on anything Smash related. Similar to how Phil Spencer championed Banjo & Kazooie (and probably Steve behind the scenes), Gabe Newell would presumably champion any Valve content in Smash Bros., including Gordon Freeman as a playable character.

So, Nintendo and Valve clearly recognize each other's value and have no problems working together. Rather than any sort of animosity, it is merely the result of unfortunate luck that the two have never worked together in any major way. A pathway for Gordon to be a playable character in Smash Bros. exists thanks to Nintendo's recognition of the significant value of the Half-Life series and Gabe Newell's openness to include Valve content in Smash Bros.
Similar to Valve and Steam, I don't think Half-Life needs much introduction. It's one of the most influential video games of all time. The Source Engine that Valve created just for Half Life 2 was used to create countless other games (Counter Strike, Team Fortress, G-Mod, etc.), and the series has retained a significant fanbase despite with a decade of silence from Valve (no, we are not talking about Hunt Down the Freeman). There's a very enlightening feature-length documentary on the two aforementioned topics that I'd suggest you check out if you want to learn more about the series.

I think it's kind of mandatory that I provide some sales figures to show the series' popularity in this piece, so here's the paragraph in which I do so. As of December 2008, the series had sold a combined 28.1 million units between games and expansions (9.3 m from Half-Life 1, 9.5 m from Half-Life 2, and 9.3 from expansions). The Orange Box, a pack of Valve games containing Half-Life 2, had sold 3 million units by that time as well. By February 2011, Half-Life 2 had independently sold 12 million copies. Given the amount of time that's passed since these reports, these numbers have surely grown much higher since then. Half-Life Alyx, the most recent release in the series has seemingly surpassed 2 million units sold as of December 2020, and, as of May 2020, had brought in nearly 1 million users to Steam in a record gain. For a VR exclusive release this is incredibly impressive, with it even managing to match Beat Saber–arguably the most popular VR game–in concurrent users on its release day.

While no real data exists to show how the Half-Life series has fared in Japan, there is evidence to suggest that the series holds acclaim among Japanese game developers. To start, Gordon Freeman has received cameos in prominent Japanese releases, such as Phantasy Star Online 2 (Sega), Death Stranding (Kojima Productions), and Final Fantasy XV (Square Enix) (the Half-Life team at Valve even sent FFXV's Community Director a Head Crab hat for the announcement of this).

There's also the incredibly curious case of the Half-Life 2 Japan-exclusive arcade release, which was pretty much the entire game but in arcade form. When asked about why Half-Life 2 was brought to Japan in this way Takuma Hanagata. a developer of the machine, had this to say:


For a dominantly Western-favored series, Half-Life is appreciated a surprising amount if the nods and attempts to show it off to Japanese video game players is any indication.

Most notably, Sakurai wrote about Half-Life 2 in a 2004 Famitsu column of his, saying:


In a later interview on the article, Sakurai defended the ability of players to act freely during cutscenes and said that the game had a "Nintendo vibe" to it. While I would encourage readers to take any argument that cites a Sakurai article with a healthy amount of salt, it's clear in this case that Sakurai holds the Half-Life series in high regard. I would even go so far as to argue that Sakurai would choose to add Gordon Freeman to Smash if presented with him because of this.

Finally, I'd like to address the longevity of the series, since it seems that most of our DLC characters so far cross-promote another game, be it on Nintendo consoles (Dragon Quest XI S: Echoes of an Elusive Age - Definitive Editiontm) or on competing hardware (Persona 5 Royal, Final Fantasy 7 Remake). While the series was dormant for over a decade, in an announcement about Half Life Alyx, Gabe Newell said that "Everyone at Valve is excited to be returning to the world of Half-Life." A multimedia documentary about the making of Half-Life Alyx also revealed information about at least 3 Half-Life projects that were in development but were, unfortunately, canceled, showing that despite the 12 years of silence attempts were made from within Valve to release new games in the series. If only Portal could get the same treatment. :(

It's clear that Half-Life is not only an important series for Valve, but it's also one that they will continue to revisit in the future. If approached to negotiate for a character in Smash, Valve would surely put Half-Life on the table as including a Half-Life character in Smash Bros. would carry the most significant promotional value for both Nintendo and Valve.
In conclusion, the relationship between Nintendo and Valve is not as bad as fans make it out to be, with the two companies sharing a mutual respect and understanding of each other's value. Valve is an incredibly influential company within the sphere of PC gaming, which is currently experiencing massive growth in the Japanese market. Half-Life as a series has not only defined an entire generation of PC gaming, but is also highly respected among prominent Japanese video game developers and companies—including Sakurai and Nintendo. Provided this alongside Gabe Newell's statements on including Valve properties in Smash Bros., it is not as far a reach as one would think for Gordon Freeman to be one of our next DLC fighters. At the very least, I would consider him a definite likelihood and would not underestimate his chances.

Great post. I’ve been considering Gordon as a possibility for a while, I think Sephiroth gives him some more credence. Gordon feels similar to Sephiroth in that he’s an icon that a lot of people are ignoring in favor of other icons like Crash & DoomGuy.

Sakurai praised Half-Life 2 back when it released, so I imagine he’d be eager to work on Gordon. It’s also always possible that Nintendo & Valve have started working together again on that Half-Life game. Especially if the initial reason for it being cancelled/shelved was worry over it being the first one in a while; that’s not a worry anymore because of HL: Alyx.
It's kind of weird being back. I'm sure some people might think my former goodbyes are now cheapened, but I stand by what I said back then. My life only continues to get busy (I'm starting work on my undergrad thesis and two other research initiatives next semester) and I'm actually making progress on my backlog of games (I'm playing Devil May Cry 3 on Switch right now and it's really fun). I might stick around for a bit to answer any questions on this essay or give my thoughts on current speculation, but otherwise I wanted to just pop in, drop an essay, and vanish into the ether for an indiscriminate amount of time again.

Except, before I do so, let it be known that I wrote about both Steve and Sephiroth and it's a shame I was not here to flex my 500 IQ speculation. ;(

Anyways, I hope everyone's staying healthy and safe, and happy holidays to you all! I suppose in a way this is an early Christmas present, so I sincerely hope you enjoyed reading!
A legend has graced us with his presence!

Im not sure on Gordon Freeman considering the purgatory Half Life 3 is in. That said he would definitely be an interesting character, so im all for it.



As for Chun-Li does anyone else think it is really strange they chose Guile as the assist trophy over her? It makes more sense to choose Chun-Li as she is more iconic. So possibly I can see Capcom choosing to save her for later. It does seem like whatever crossover game Ryu is in, Chun-Li follows him.
I think they chose Guile because he has a famous playstyle that a lot of players use with him, “turtling”. I think the team chose that because it has a bit more personality to it since it’s almost like you’re fighting against a real Guile player. Chun-Li doesn’t really have a notable playstyle like that so she’d just feel like the rest of the ATs.
 

Spatman

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Why release a Mii costume before the character? Well, if I were Nintendo and Sakurai told me "I want Geno" I would say "Okay... but he's not really all that popular or well known. Make him a costume first, so his fans will buy him. Then, after that, you can make him a full character."
I don't really get this reasoning. Which would be the sense to make fans buy first the costume and then the character? why not directly the character?and if all Geno's fans already bought the costume, why not using the next dlc spot to another character who can be sold to other people (growing the total number of buyers of dlcs)? and, first and foremost: dlc are already all planned, and are being worked all together (more or less). It isn't manageable to release now Geno's costume, then seeingthe reception of buyers and only then doing a deal with SE to make him playable and starting to work on him to release him within the dead end Sakurai already gave us. And if the sellings of Geno's costume aren't high enough? they will begin to think about another character in replacement, then make a deal for him/her/it (and if he/she/it is a Nintendo character, still there will be needed to do something about copyrights and the correct representation of the character in Smash, basing on opinions of Nintendo and the original developers of that character) and then start to work on him/her/it?
 

Dinoman96

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Pretty confident in feeling that Waluigi and Geno will never be playable in an official Smash game.
 
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Wunderwaft

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No Galar period? That sounds even better! :092:
I'm definitely down for a Pokemon from any previous gens though if we get a 30th anniversary pick. Unova trainer, perhaps? Mimikyu?
Assuming that there might be an obligatory Gen 4 remake releasing next year we could get a Gen 4 Pokemon as part of the pass. But who knows? In the end it's up to TPC and them giving a small selection for Sakurai to choose so we'll see.
 

Garteam

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We have exactly 2 spots left for Music in the Music menu, but 3 characters left.


They could 100% add another row in, this is obvious, and yet, with the Chun Leak, existing, I'd be lying if I didn't say a part of me was leaning towards the idea of "We're getting another same-series character", and this really all started thanks to Sephiroth.
If My Music theory does play out, then I'm putting my bets on Byleth/Corrin-style promotional character for a game that releases in the first half of 2021 as our second character from an established franchise for this pass. I think it will most likely be a character from BotW 2 or the 3-D Kirby referenced in Fighters' code, but Nintendo plays so fast and loose release dates that it really could be from a game we have no idea exists yet. Alternatively, we get a Luminary and Nintendo promotes a third-party release they have a vested interest in. I guess Monster Hunter would technically count, but I believe the Monster Hunter music is currently categorized as miscellaneous under My Music.
 

7NATOR

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Pretty confident in feeling that Waluigi and Geno will never be playable in an official Smash game.
It might take awhile, but I think they will be playable eventually, Especially Waluigi

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Also I got to ask, Considering Sakurai said that the Sephiroth challenge took awhile to Implement, and that just has a Cool UI and specific fight conditions, I'm going to say that it's unlikely we getting another Boss Character
 

Nekoo

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I think it's good that, unlike Box Theory that had lots of toxic discussion to counter it, or the Grinch Saga being literally CIVIL WARS 2.0 within the smash community that, ALL of the leaks/Rumors or whatever will make or break at the next character revealed, or following spirit events.
 

cothero

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Assuming that there might be an obligatory Gen 4 remake releasing next year we could get a Gen 4 Pokemon as part of the pass. But who knows? In the end it's up to TPC and them giving a small selection for Sakurai to choose so we'll see.
I think gen 4 remake isn't happening anymore. If they would stick to that idea, it'd have happened back in 2018/2019 at max. They kinda released another remake of gen 1 with Let's Go Pikachu / Eevee, so i think it's easier to go gen 2 again with a new kind of gameplay structure.
 
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Strife

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Pretty much the logic is that Nintendo wouldn't spoil a Company's Presence in the game with a Spirit event if they were getting a Character later on

Arc System Works is a new company, So I think them getting a Spirit Event might suggest that they aren't going much further than that. Their spirit Event was also added when Pass 2 was In active production, so that just adds to it
I don't get it. Is the idea that they would release the spirit event along side the new character? If that's the case then doesn't square having two spirit events before Sephiroth soundly contradict that? Seems like an odd line of thought to me.

Pretty confident in feeling that Waluigi and Geno will never be playable in an official Smash game.
I can understand your skeptism about Geno but why Waluigi. He is a first party character with a long of fan demand. Seems like a clear cut choice to me. Pretty sure if Plant wasn't a rushed character then he would have been Waluigi
 

Dinoman96

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It's pretty apparant at this point that Sakurai, Nintendo and their Mario Shadow Council perceive Waluigi to be an unimportant spinoff roster filler character and I don't see that changing.

Waluigi doesn't even seem to be appearing anywhere at Super Nintendo World.

 

Hydreigonfan01

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I think they chose Guile because he has a famous playstyle that a lot of players use with him, “turtling”. I think the team chose that because it has a bit more personality to it since it’s almost like you’re fighting against a real Guile player. Chun-Li doesn’t really have a notable playstyle like that so she’d just feel like the rest of the ATs.
I believe the actual reason of why they put Guile in as an assist trophy is so his theme can be in the game, especially now with the SB updates as it truly can go with everything. :4pacman:
 

Starlight Liger

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A Galar rep feels like a shoe-in (unfortunately) for the next Smash's or an Ultimate port's set of newcomers - or even post-pass DLC if we get any. But this pass? Nah. Yain't seeing none of that rubbish here.
Pokemon's 25th Anniversary is on February, you don't think that's the perfect opportunity for a Galar Pokemon in Smash Bros?
 

Mapusaurus

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A Galar rep feels like a shoe-in (unfortunately) for the next Smash's or an Ultimate port's set of newcomers - or even post-pass DLC if we get any. But this pass? Nah. Yain't seeing none of that rubbish here.
remember when we thought byleth would only come in the second pass and then she came in the first one.
 

7NATOR

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I don't get it. Is the idea that they would release the spirit event along side the new character? If that's the case then doesn't square having two spirit events before Sephiroth soundly contradict that? Seems like an odd line of thought to me.
Well it's the idea that they would release the Spirit Event after they revealed a New Arc System Works character

Unlike Square, Arc System hadn't touch Smash at all until that Spirit Event. it's a weird introduction of Arc System if they were getting a character in this pass, as every company so far has been introduced with a Playable character when they got in. The Smash team and Nintendo treats the Playable character's introduction not just an addition of that character, but a Partner ship with that company and franchise.

Now I could understand if Arc System had Spirits in Base game, and decided to negotiate for Character in FP2, but this Spirit event was in FP2. I'm not going to throw out possibility of Arc Systems Character, but I'm more apprehensive of a character. Of course there could be surprises.
 

Wunderwaft

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It's pretty apparant at this point that Sakurai, Nintendo and their Mario Shadow Council perceive Waluigi to be an unimportant spinoff roster filler character and I don't see that changing.

Waluigi doesn't even seem to be appearing anywhere at Super Nintendo World.

Eh
The Wahoominati doesn't hold any authority or power when it comes to Smash, otherwise K. Rool would have never made it in and Bowser wouldn't still be making animal noises.

As for Sakurai and Nintendo they could have a change of heart after the fan backlash when Waluigi got revealed as an AT. Fan popularity and backlash can make them rethink their thoughts on a character. For the longest time Sakurai thought Ridley fit as a boss and making him playable wouldn't be true to the character, yet after a lot of fan demand he changed his mind.

As for Super Nintendo World, Wario also isn't shown anywhere. This isn't a problem exclusive to Waluigi, Nintendo doesn't want to show the partners in crime for some reason, and it sure isn't because of them being unimportant.
 

cothero

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Speaking of 'Mons and excluding gen 8 (which is horrendous), there's no gen 3 and 5 Playable characters in the game. If you could choose one gen 3 Pokémon and one from gen 5 to be playable, which ones would you chose?

Il'd choose Sceptile and Emboar.
 

SharkLord

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Speaking of 'Mons and excluding gen 8 (which is horrendous), there's no gen 3 and 5 Playable characters in the game. If you could choose one gen 3 Pokémon and one from gen 5 to be playable, which ones would you chose?

Il'd choose Sceptile and Emboar.
Aggron and Golurk. Big monster and big mecha.

Let them fight.
 
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