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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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Lamperouge

Drifting Soul
Joined
Sep 4, 2018
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13,533
I dunno why this thread is still up. I suppose it’s tradition.

But there’s no use for it anymore. We all know it’s Gex.
Not sure where you're getting your information from...

Because Soccer Guy told me that the final character is King Harkinian of YouTube Poop fame. Yes, YouTube Poop fame, not the CDI. Samurai made it a point to stress that to me.
 

Mushroomguy12

Smash Hero
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Nov 23, 2018
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I think the thing that sucks most about tomorrow, is basically all the other threads are gonna be shut down.


Like, it feels, really, really like a mistake to just funnel all those people into a single thread tbh.



I get the logic behind locking this thread, but those threads basically serve as a hub for likeminded folks that wanna discuss one particular subject more often than not.
In addition to an Ultimate Social Thread for the post DLC era, we could use "inter-game" support threads as well. It would certainly help to build up support for characters outside of the Smash cycles.
 

Bakabridget

Smash Cadet
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Not sure where you're getting your information from...

Because Soccer Guy told me that the final character is King Harkinian of YouTube Poop fame. Yes, YouTube Poop fame, not the CDI. Samurai made it a point to stress that to me.
the only question is, is the dinner blaster his final smash or his neutral b.
 

Mushroomguy12

Smash Hero
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Not sure where you're getting your information from...

Because Soccer Guy told me that the final character is King Harkinian of YouTube Poop fame. Yes, YouTube Poop fame, not the CDI. Samurai made it a point to stress that to me.
Did he happen to tell you what's for dinner?
 

Rie Sonomura

fly octo fly
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Tomorrow, we're getting not only the final fighter, but also the last Mii Costume Wave. Aside from the last fighter, whoever will become a mii costume, it'll be better than nothing or being a spirit.
First party, yes, I agree, cuz they’d be safe for the next game

I still see third party miis as a permanent death sentence though. Unless we get the likes of Tails or Lloyd as playable next game, my opinion probably won’t change
 

Eldrake

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 5, 2008
Messages
1,278
Tomorrow, we're getting not only the final fighter, but also the last Mii Costume Wave. Aside from the last fighter, whoever will become a mii costume, it'll be better than nothing or being a spirit.
If it's a FPS rep, I predict an all FPS Mii Costume Wave.
If not, I predict an Among Us mii costume.
 
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Royalty1702

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
445
Welp here it is for everyone to re juggle their MW memory.

The Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II MW Character List

Octoling

Elma

Sora

Doomguy

Crash

Cinderace

Sgt Cortez

Master Chief

Chozo Dude

Neku

Frisk

Rayman

Dr. Eggman

Battletoads

Decidueye

Nahobino

Waluigi

Isaac

Phoenix Wright

Fulgore

Ezio

Tracer

Kratos

Gordon Freeman

King Boo

Scorpion

Reimu

Bill Rizer

Lu Bu

Off The Hook

Saber

Estelle Bright

Zero

Mega Man X

Hayabusa

.....

Who asked for who? You know who ya are. If any of these characters make it my hat's off to you!

Some of these characters may even fit the last minute speculation discussed here today. And so with that I ask one final time if there are any characters not listed here please feel free to let me know and I will add them. You all have my gratitude for lifting this old man's spirits these last few months as Ultimate draws to a close. Thank you one and all.
My MW is Bandana Waddle Dee, although he has 1% chance of appearing. Sora is my second MW and I'm more confident he will show up tomorrow.
I’m curious; Say your MW gets revealed tomorrow, what is a song track you hope makes it on their music list?
 

CapitaineCrash

Smash Champion
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First party, yes, I agree, cuz they’d be safe for the next game

I still see third party miis as a permanent death sentence though. Unless we get the likes of Tails or Lloyd as playable next game, my opinion probably won’t change
I don't really see why they would be permanently dead. I mean, I don't want to speculate too much on the next game because we don't know when it will release, but I could see them considering Sans, Cuphead, Dante or Shantae in future games assuming those characters are still popular. Those miis were very popular so it would make sense to upgrade at least some of them.
 

CommanderZaktan

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
968
Welp here it is for everyone to re juggle their MW memory.

The Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II MW Character List

Octoling

Elma

Sora

Doomguy

Crash

Cinderace

Sgt Cortez

Master Chief

Chozo Dude

Neku

Frisk

Rayman

Dr. Eggman

Battletoads

Decidueye

Nahobino

Waluigi

Isaac

Phoenix Wright

Fulgore

Ezio

Tracer

Kratos

Gordon Freeman

King Boo

Scorpion

Reimu

Bill Rizer

Lu Bu

Off The Hook

Saber

Estelle Bright

Zero

Mega Man X

Hayabusa

.....

Who asked for who? You know who ya are. If any of these characters make it my hat's off to you!

Some of these characters may even fit the last minute speculation discussed here today. And so with that I ask one final time if there are any characters not listed here please feel free to let me know and I will add them. You all have my gratitude for lifting this old man's spirits these last few months as Ultimate draws to a close. Thank you one and all.
My most wanted are Doomslayer, Master Chief, Rayman, Crash, and Frisk
 

Bakabridget

Smash Cadet
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Nov 19, 2014
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55
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Ohio
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Bakabridget
My most wanted are KOS-MOS and Sami... and maybe Arisa... but after that i'd still still be pertty hype for Forte or Carmen Sandiego.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
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I don't really see why they would be permanently dead. I mean, I don't want to speculate too much on the next game because we don't know when it will release, but I could see them considering Sans, Cuphead, Dante or Shantae in future games assuming those characters are still popular. Those miis were very popular so it would make sense to upgrade at least some of them.
Yeah I don't see why they'd be like "let's add a Dante Mii Costume because he's popular" and then never add him as a fighter because of this decision. It seems pretty counterintuitive.
 

Gengar84

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
5,823
I asked for Zero. Well, his Zero series counterpart (the one with hibernation sickness and all), but you get what I mean.



(coughs in Little Mac was upgraded from Assist to Fighter, and yes Little Mac was an Assist in Brawl, he was upgraded to Fighter in Smash 4)
You can’t really go wrong with any track from Battletoads. My favorite is probably the final stage of Battletoads and Double Dragon but it’s hard to find a link on YouTube, The first stage of Battlemaniacs is great as well so I’ll share that one:

Battletoads:

Zegram:

Magus:
 
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jamesster445

Smash Lord
Joined
May 7, 2015
Messages
1,137
Well with the end tomorrow I decided to look back upon the previous DLC characters that I missed out on. I also included the characters I did review as quotes.

Joker
As a Persona fan, I wasn't ever thinking of Joker joining Smash. I was in the camp that a SMT or even an earlier Persona character would make it. Just like everyone else, I was surprised by the announcement at the Game Awards. And this began one of the worst hype cycles for a DLC characters. So many teases and updates, no gameplay was shown so my mind went nuts with the possibilities of how they're going to translate Persona's gameplay elements. And then they showed him off and he was released. And I am not impressed in the slightest.

Joker is a surprisingly uninspired fighter design. Between his bonds and how Personas work it's sad that Smash took nothing from it. And it especially insulting considering that the formula for a "Stand Character" was figured out already with the Jojo game on Dreamcast, Persona 4 Arena and even Smash itself with Rosalina. Instead what we ended up with was "Shiek with Limit Break 2.0". But I think the worst part of Joker is that the Rebellion Gauge actively rewards a bad player while punishing his opponent for fighting him in this fighting game. It's a bad system in every way possible. Unpopular opinion I'm sure, but Joker is the worst DLC character of Ultimate.

That said Mementos is a good stage both with and without hazards. Considering that Mementos was the worst part of P5, color me surprised. Speaking of colors, I love that this stage essentially got Persona 3 and Persona 4 variants that correspond with the music played. And speaking of music, we got a pretty good selection of music between P3-P5. There are some omissions that confuse me like not having Life Will Change at all. These are the saving graces of Joker's challenger pick.

Hero
My journey with Hero was the exact opposite of Joker. I never played a Dragon Quest game before but I remember how toxic the discourse for Erdrick was and how "boring" he would be. And then the character was announced, and nothing changed. Then Sakurai did his first Sakurai presents and well... let's say no one was arguing that he was boring anymore.

Hero is stupid in the best way possible. I love playing this character and I love fighting against this character. RNG is brilliant as a homage to every RPG ever from Dragon Quest to Dungeons and Dragons. And while I think a lot of his general moves are on the uninspired side, magic and RNG holds the whole thing together in such a fun way that even when I lose (both playing as and/or against a Hero), I'm usually having a good time. Hero is just a fun but stoopid character. Also this is the only character that Hoes Mad worked with don't @ me.

Unfortunately the same can't be said about his stage and music. Obvious things out of the way first, Sugiyama actiively screwed over Smash fans by choosing not only to limit the quantity of songs we would get but also the quality of the songs. It's even more insulting when the orchestrated version of the Erdrick theme was used in the trailer but a MIDI version was used for the game. The stage itself is just ok, but it's similar to some other stages and between the weak OST and the bland layout, it's been one of my lesser played stages.

Banjo and Kazooie
I never played Banjo and Kazooie, I have no nostalgia for the character. But there is something nostalgic of the character's inclusion. And I feel like that is a theme of the character.

I'm probably not the first person to make this observation but Banjo feels like a lost Smash 64 character. Yeah Banjo feels like he was here all along. It pairs nicely with that nostalgia theme. Unfortunately it did lead him to have a more lamer playstyle that is deprived of sauce. But honestly doesn't that fit the character? I think the character is a great representation and overall good design but there are other character that do similar things that I'd rather play instead.

Spiral Mountain sucks as a stage both with and without hazards. It's not fun to play at all unless it's a battlefield or Omega variant. The same can't be said about the music. Banjo's OST is great if limited but considering how many were remixed, I consider it a win.

Terrance
My only exposure to SNK and its characters were MUGEN. But Terry was always a cool dude. When he was leaked I questioned how he would be unique compared to the other 2D fighting game characters that were already in. Little did I know that we were about to get the surprise MVP of season 1.

Terry is a better take on the 2D fighting game characters compared to the shotos. I can't explain exactly why Terry feels better than Ryu or Ken, but he does. I love that he has two side specials and a charge motion for Rising Taco. But what makes the character so great, are super specials, command input supers have made it to Smash and they are perfect here. They only activate at near death percentages and they are incredibly unsafe if blocked or whiffed so it is balanced nicely as great risk vs reward tools.

KoF Stadium might be the best stage in the game. He comes with 50 songs atleast half of them are remixes across various SNK properties and they're all just so good.

Byleth
Hoo boy. Ok let me get this out of the way. I played Three Houses, I hought it was good but I didn't love it, I got burnt out real quickly during the second half of the game and lost a lot of motivation to continue playing. I have yet to complete any route beyond Claude's. Byleth is the worst part of Three Houses's narrative. They have a lot of the typical problems that silent mary sue avatar characters tend to have but then you add the additional part of Byleth being a groomer and that just made this whole character unappealing. And combine that with the surplus of Fire Emblem content that was already in Smash, the absolute worst trailer for a Smash newcomer and yeah I was not happy with the announcement.

Garreg Mach Monastary as a stage was something I did want. But I also don't like the stage. It has the same problem that Hero's stage has in that it's kind of underwhelming and there are similar stages that do similar things better.

What about the music. So Byleth a 1st party character meaning licensing should not be a problem and we got 11 songs. Not too bad about the same as other characters in the pass like Joker and even Bayonetta. However the devil is in the details. We got 2 remixes of the same song just one version comes with English lyrics. They do the same thing Edge of Dawn. So in reality we got 9 songs with 1 of them being a new arrangement, and God Shattering Star wasn't one of them.

So what Byleth himself. They're fine. They're better than Joker but as a design they are not better than any of the other DLC characters. Now to give credit, Byleth is built off a strong foundation. The FE weapon master is great base to build a character off of. The problem is that the design is half baked. Sure Byleth can use an axe, but only for 3 attacks. I think we could've gotten way more mileage if Byleth was a full on stance character using the other weapons. This could allow for a lot of expressionism within individual players who either choose a specific weapon or a mix of all three. As of this moment he's mostly just playing footsies with a sharp object and considering how many FE characters already do that, not impressed. But I think one of the biggest problems with Byleth is that the one unique thing about the character is ignored completely. Byleth is a school teacher, why is learning not a part of the moveset? Imagine if Byleth learned how to use weapons more effectively throughout the match which made the weapon better but even gave passive buffs to other weapons (ex, Axes do more shield damage compared to the sword and lance, imagine if when you level up the axe the sword and lance start dealing more shield damage). Combine this with a proper stance system and this would harken back to the best part of Three Houses, complete freedom in how you build characters. But as of this moment, he's just another Fire Emblem character. Don't believe me, even the classic mode is just fighting other FE characters. Even there they couldn't find a way to utilize the teacher motif. At the end of the day, Byleth isn't a bad character, but they're not good either they're just kind of boring. And at the end of the day that is worse to me.

This was easily the lowest point of Ultimate DLC for me.

Min Min
Well I missed this retrospective of Ultimate's DLC that we were doing. Well better late than never.

Min MIn
Yeah Min Min is a great representation of ARMS while offering something genuinely different from the rest of the Smash cast. She's definitely not everyone's cup of tea but if you don't like Min Min, you weren't going to like anyone from ARMS. Also I sincerely hope that on the fly ARMS swaping is something that's considered for ARMS 2.

I think the stage is a bit basic, but I'm fine with it.

I love the ARMS OST and I appreciate that we effectively got the whole soundtrack in Smash and 2 good remixes.
STEVE!!!! and Alex

Steve is the embodiment of freedom and creativity, I love it. This IS one of, if not the best designed characters in Smash. The amount of ways the character can be played and strategies that come from it are mind boggling. My general strategy is to spend my first stock using wooden equipment to mine and deal damage that way the next stock can be used with diamond/gold equipment. But someone else may not even consider that playstyle. There is no definitive flowchart. I appreciate it when an individual character offers a variety of ways to play them, and Steve does just that. Also the guy is just funny looking. In hindsight it really was stupid to suggest that his stiff animations couldn't make him work as a fighter, cause that's honestly the best part of the guy. Also his Final Smash is "Creeper, aw man", what's not to like.

He came with technically 5 stages and they're all solid.

And while I wasn't familiar with the OST (technically I'm still not), I enjoyed what we got considering that almost all of them were remixes.
Sephiroth
This was a character that I never thought would happen. What;s wierd is that it ended up being something I really like. I was never the biggest fan of Sephiroth as a character., I like in the original FF7 and that was it, and a big reason was because he was barely in it. His "rivalry" with Cloud was completely one sided, and in the end he only saw Cloud as a tool that he eventually throws away. It's only with the compilation of FF7 did he start to become Cloud's stalker and because he started to appear more which, kind of made me like him less. So imagine my surprise when Sephiroth is revealed in one of the best trailers ever and ended up becoming a highlight of Season 2.

I love the boss like playstyle of the character with powerful imposing attacks. I actually find that despite having completely different movesets, Seph almost has the same playstyle as Ganondorf. Both rely heavily on using their overwhelming power to instill fear (dis pear if you will) into your opponent, forcing that opponent to make a mistake to which you punish with deadly consequences. However a mistake on your part can easily lead to your own death so don't get so cocky.

Northern Cave is probably my favorite stage of the season. I appreciate that it's fairly tame in terms of layout. And yes it's cool that it effectively recaps the ending of FF7.

I really like a lot of the music that came with him, especially the Aerith remix. But I'm not letting Square off that easy. A lot of this should've been here at launch with Cloud. Furthermore, getting nothing from Remake is a big disappointment.

Pyra/Mythra
Pyra/Mythra

This is a character that I'm torn on. On the one hand, it was more Xenoblade 2 content and I do like how they play. I generally like how they allow expression through which blade you prefer to use and how to synergize them. Do you play Pyra exclusively, Mythra, Or do you use both. They're a lot of fun. But I also think they don't represent Xenoblade 2 at all. Obviously they don't incorporate Rex, their driver at all. But I miss the "Jenga Tower" strategy that makes Xenoblade 2's combat system so fun. They're probably the weakest character of the season, but that by no means makes them bad characters.

I like Gramps as a stage. I think the layout is cozy and I like his commentary.

Xenoblade 2's music is great, I'm glad we got 3 remixes, my only complaint is that I wanted more and this was an opportunity to include more songs from 1/DE and X and they didn't take it.

Kazuya Mishima
I know Kazuya retrospective.

So I'm a big fan of Tekken. My signature has Jin listed as a most wanted character. So Kazuya was absolutely a pleasant surprise and in hindsight was the best pick. He has a true Mishima fighting style that is emblamatic to Tekken, He has his Devil powers that help him fit into Smash Bros, and he's also a villain protagonist something we've never had before. Kazuya is also dangerously close to being my new favorite character in the game. Ridley was my main for the past 3 years in terms of total battles played and highest GSP in Elite Smash. Kazuya in 3 months, has gotten dangerously close to where Ridley currently stands.

Kazuya's moveset is a great adaptation of Tekken gameplay. Between diagonal tilts, multi hit strings, crouching and rising tilts. Kazuya then uses all of these to chain together some of the coolest combos in the game. And while it is overwhelming to look at his moveset, that's how it can be in Tekken too. So instead, you focus on what you do understand and that encourages further experimentation once you understand your current skill set better. And what this creates is a character that is fun to experiment with, a character that you can just go into training mode with and have a good time discovering the sauciest of strings. And make no mistake this character has sauce, Level 9 CPU showed everyone this.

The Mishima Dojo is a great stage, but it feels a little been there done that with the KoF Stadium. I'm not complaining, KoF Stadium was the best DLC stage so I welcome the reskin.

Tekken's OST selection has me happy for the most part but also dissapointed. No Fiji or Hon Maru themes. But they included Keiichi Okabe's magnum opus and a remix to the Electric Fountain. I'm also kinda pissed how they screwed the loop of some of the good but short songs like the opening to Tekken Tag Tournament and Heat Haze Shadow. Heat Haze Shadow in particular has me very upset, because it ignores the second part and it ends the second it fully kicks in. But we got more than 30 songs so I'll be fine. Also the remix of Kazuya's theme is one of the best remixes in the game in terms of improving on the original song.

So all in all, yeah Kazuya is my favorite Challenger pack of Season 2. I feel bad for whoever gets revealed tomorow, cause there's very little chance that they're going to be better than what Kazuya offered.
 

BanishedAbsol

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
4
Well guys this is it. The last night of smash speculation and the final 13 hours before the big reveal.
Over the 3 and a half years I found this website during base game speculation and it’s felt like a 2nd home. During my start at university and now in my final semester, smash speculation was always there for me. I chatted about dreams, rumors, and just had a awesome time chatting with so many of you guys. Heck I started a YouTube channel called KoopaSaki and made for smash animatics due to the memories alone. So I just want to leave with this: tomorrow I will pray and hope for:
Sora
Master Chief
Rayman
Crash Bandicoot
Tf2 rep ( I can dream)
Phoenix wright
Ryu hayabusa
Ahri
Any Golden sun rep
Arle

if any of those10 make it, I will cry. Just after losing Shantae, Geno, and Isaac, 3 characters I’ve wanted for the past 8 years only to see them fall would be the best redemption if any of these characters come tomorrow. I simply hope to end on a high note cause smash and speculation means a lot to me. A place where I could just unwind and escape alot of problems going on like my job or school or heck even mental health. This place was here for my last 3 and a half years and its been such a journey of joy and pain. So now I rest and hope to see a dream come true tomorrow. See you all tomorrow morning on the other side.
 
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Shadowvegeta

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 25, 2015
Messages
52
Welp this is it everyone. We're in the endgame now. My most wanted at this point are Master Chief, Doomslayer, Crash, and Dr. Eggman. I'll see you all on the otherside. Im sure tomorrow will be special. Sweet dreams smash fans.
 

Phoenix Douchebag

Smash Lord
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Mar 19, 2020
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ZE BATH
12 Hours left guys.

It all ends now.

Now if you excuse me, i'll have to go to sleep, or read Dairy of a Wimpy kid or something.

This will likely be my last post. I know i have "retired" than Rocky Balboa or James Bond at this point, but i think with the Pandemic of "UNSPECIFIED VIRUS OF UNKNOWN ORIGIN" ending in my country (or at least the restrictive Quarantine), i really think i have to abandon this site for a long time.

Peace out.
 

Pillow

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 20, 2013
Messages
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Location
Los Angeles
I've personally given up on anyone I'm personally attached to being the final character, though I hope whoever it is, everyone else is happy with it.

...Please god give us more quality Mii costumes though. It's very disappointing how few we got after Sans.
 

Rie Sonomura

fly octo fly
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I've personally given up on anyone I'm personally attached to being the final character, though I hope whoever it is, everyone else is happy with it.

...Please god give us more quality Mii costumes though. It's very disappointing how few we got after Sans.
They usually seem to be indies, if you mean the ones that comes with music

we got two gunners (Sans and Cuphead) and a brawler (Shantae) we just need a swordfighter with a song to complete the trifecta
 

MooMew64

sometimes here, sometimes there
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Nov 4, 2019
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up and down and all around
Alright y'all.

The time is soon here, and I ain't gettin' spoiled. Not this cat, not when it's the last rodeo for Ultimate.

I'll catch you all tomorrow after the trailer for the character airs. Assuming this place isn't Crashboards while the presentation is airing, lol.

Final predictions:

Big whopper reveal: Sora or Waluigi

Medium sized reveal: SMT or Puyo Puyo

Everyone unfortunately gets mad: Pokémon


Mii: Hollow Knight, I say it every time and I'M GONNA BE RIGHT THIS TIME SHUT UP.

Other than that? Uh.....

Mii Brawler gets a SSE costume via Primid. :nifty:
Gonna drop this here as well.

See y'all tomorrow for the end. I haven't been active in this thread much during FP2, but all the same, it's been a ride.



Peace
 

Þe 1 → Way

Smash Champion
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Dec 12, 2020
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Wouldn’t You Like To Know?
I have hope for getting something I enjoy. Deltarune, Phoenix, Masterchief, Doomguy, Gordon Freeman, Waluigi, etc.
I like a lot of things and many have good enough shots.

Hyping responsibly of course, but I think the odds are in my favor for once.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

Smash Legend
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Feb 13, 2015
Messages
12,536
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Question: I'm trying to figure out what a guard point is and how it differs from armour (so naturally, I ask the community that doesn't use the term) and from what I've been able to find it's when an attack auto-guards and you don't take damage. So...does that mean that counters are guard point moves or?

EDIT: And it also said that armour is different because you take all the damage, which beg the question of what moves like Revenge and Rebels Guard count as...
 
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