Difficult matchups?

[Conda]

Wondering what your findings are so far for matchups that are difficult for Bowser Jr.

His projectile game isn't really projectile-based like I thought it'd be, so reflectors don't seem to be too big a factor, and he is a decent boxer with surprise/mindgame elements similar to PKT2 with Ness. He seems to have some unique playstyle options available. These things may mean he can be versatile enough to withstand many different kinds of matchups.

Thoughts?

 

[PlasmaPuffball]

I find Rosalina to be a pretty bad matchup for Jr.. I haven't been able to find out what to do against her. Mechakoopas/Cannonballs are useless against her, she can even just use the Mechakoopas against you if you use deploy one. Approaching her is difficult, as you can't use Mechakoopas for help, and you can't use Side B to approach because Luma Shot beats it, and if you jump cancel it to get over Luma Shot, she can use any of her aerials to beat yours. I can't seem to challenge her aerials, mainly her Uair, Fair, and Bair, so being in the air against her kinda sucks, and landing against her is difficult because her Uair beats everything Jr. can do because of the range/disjoint. She can also Dthrow -> Fair you at relatively low percents. I've been playing a lot of Jr. vs Rosalina against one of my good friends, and he always seems to have the upper hand.

 

[Conda]

I find Rosalina to be a pretty bad matchup for Jr.. I haven't been able to find out what to do against her. Mechakoopas/Cannonballs are useless against her, she can even just use the Mechakoopas against you if you use deploy one. Approaching her is difficult, as you can't use Mechakoopas for help, and you can't use Side B to approach because Luma Shot beats it, and if you jump cancel it to get over Luma Shot, she can use any of her aerials to beat yours. I can't seem to challenge her aerials, mainly her Uair, Fair, and Bair, so being in the air against her kinda sucks, and landing against her is difficult because her Uair beats everything Jr. can do because of the range/disjoint. She can also Dthrow -> Fair you at relatively low percents. I've been playing a lot of Jr. vs Rosalina against one of my good friends, and he always seems to have the upper hand.

I'm not sure if those difficulties are unique to Bowser Jr, however. I think most of the cast has these specific problems against her, and maybe there's a more general strategy we have to use to counter Rosalina in some way.

 

[ProofByContrapositive]

I've been having trouble against Ness . I'm getting hit by fair and nair a lot when he gets past my fork. Seems like off a pk fire he can get dthrow to fair fair very consistently. It could just be mebut even past 60% he can chain dthrow to fairs and even our nair and air dodge dont come out fast enough to defend in the air. Maybe I'm bad at 'vectoring'.
Cannonball is good to counter an outspaced/whiffed pk fire at the right distance.
I'm thinking when console version is out (c stick) jump back fair will help spacing and I won't eat so many fairs from ness. Maybe I should block more? Can I punish a blocked short hop pk fire with dash attack?

also pk thunder hits me every time.

 

[handsockpuppet]

I pretty handily beat somebody's little mac and shulk using both projectiles and approach-retreats, but then he took out falco and destroyed me. His lasers interrupt the cart dash, his shine reflects both projectiles as well as easily destroying the cart dash, and he's got plenty of fast and strong ground attacks. My only workable strategy was ledge-stalling, but he didn't take the bait.

 

[VileFC3S]

Can I punish a blocked short hop pk fire with dash attack?

Unfortunately I'm having the same issue with this right here. My only hope is that I'll be able to anticipate it and follow up with a nair, bair or fair when I'm on the opposite side of Ness after the short hopped pk fire thingie.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Rosalina basically forces Bowser Jr. to have to fight directly. Gravitational Pull renders the cannonballs and Mecha-Koopas useless. In fact, Rosalina can even use the Mecha-Koopas against Bowser Jr..

 

[Conda]

Rosalina basically forces Bowser Jr. to have to fight directly. Gravitational Pull renders the cannonballs and Mecha-Koopas useless. In fact, Rosalina can even use the Mecha-Koopas against Bowser Jr..

I don't think this is too big a deal honestly. It's like if in a Ness matchup, Ness couldn't use PKT as a projectile or PKF. He is equipped to fight without those tools - I barely ever use PKF for example, I have a different playstyle with him (though it's changing in SSB4 as PKF feels quicker).

Bowser jr's projectiles aren't the spam-kind, they are the punish and trickster kind. You place a mechkoopa and continue on your way in the fight in order to take your foes mind off of the mechkoopa. You do NOT drop a mechkoopa and then wait and see how the opponent deals with it while tossing out cannonballs - that's easy to deal with for good players. It's like if Megaman simply shoots blades and sticky bombs in alteration - it's easy, sure, but it's easy to overcome. Bowser Jr is even more predictable and easy to deal with as a projectile spammer.

Against Rosalina, I recommend we focus on our melee tools, and use cannons and mechs when they fit the situation instead of the other way around. Having a projectile doesn't mean your character and matchups have to be dependant on them - Sakurai showed us this with the changes to Falco's laser. The spotlight is now on Falco's new non-laser tactics, and players are challenged with seeing how they can utilize those to their full potential now.

Same will go for Bowser Jr if we don't try to fit the cannons and Mechkoopas into every matchup. They are strong versus other characters, but we should challenge ourselves to utilize his other (great) tools, so that Bowser Jr doesn't become too polarizing matchup-wise.

 

[Nackels]

I've been playing against Jr too see what his weakness could be, and one thing I've noticed is if a G&W gets you off the edge and cooks you while your off, up B will be your downfall.. Sure this pertains too a lot of other fighters.

 

[Conda]

I've been playing against Jr too see what his weakness could be, and one thing I've noticed is if a G&W gets you off the edge and cooks you while your off, up B will be your downfall.. Sure this pertains too a lot of other fighters.

Does airdodging not work to get past this? It'll definitely be tricky, but you can re-summon your clowncar after being hit so long as you don't hammer.

 

[PlasmaPuffball]

I thought Jr. could get his Clown Car back in his tumbling animation if he just presses A? Someone else mentioned that before elsewhere. So I don't really see GnW's Cook things being that annoying.

In regards to Rosalina, one thing I've noticed is that whenever she tries to recover and snap to the ledge, a downward angled Fsmash usually beats it. It'll hit her before she snaps to the ledge, but I've found it to only work on stages with walls for the sides, like Omega Golden Plains or Balloon Trip. I've tried it on other stages like Battlefield and FD, but it doesn't work. I could just be spacing it incorrectly though. Also, I believe that Jr. does have nice tools to fight her up close, mainly Ftilt (good range and speed) and Dtilt (good range and priority, but can be hard to get the last hit in for the knockback), but the problem is getting up close to her safely. I also find recovering against her hard: if you try to recover high, you have to deal with Uair (which you can't beat and can be juggled by, and if you airdodge the Uair, then you get hit by another aerial, like Dair), if you try to recover low, you'll get wrecked by Dair (risk getting spiked, kinda easy to spike Jr. after he uses Up B, and even if she doesn't hit you with the spike hitbox, it sends you further offstage or just kills you, especially Luma's Dair), if you try to recover mid, you'll have to deal with her Bairs and Luma if she sends it out, which I don't see why she wouldn't.

 

[guedes the brawler]

i found bowser to be a hard match-up on the grounds that fire breath really hindered my recovery. but maybe i just suck.

 

[Conda]

i found bowser to be a hard match-up on the grounds that fire breath really hindered my recovery. but maybe i just suck.

Always recover low so you auto-grab the ledge. If you up-b too high under the ledge you'll fly above it and can be easily edgeguarded. If you upb low you'll grab the ledge at your apex.

 

[Cherubas]

Bowser Jr has been my online main (every time I face a new player online, my first match is always played as Bowser Jr.) so I'd like to think I've had some solid experience with him. Still, I can't say there are specific characters that I've always had trouble with. These are the ones I've had at least one completely embarrassing match against though:

Ganondorf - This might have been chalked up to inexperience. I was 14/0 in online matches when I encountered a Ganondorf that repeatedly shut me down. His attacks (particularly the Sparta Kick) seemed to outrange and outprioritize mine while doing really solid damage. I couldn't tech out of the chokeslam (that you could probably chalk up to inexperience too) which meant that every time he hit it I was hit with a guaranteed d-tilt with an up air that connected about 1/3rd of the time but never seemed to leave him very vulnerable. I also tried to f-air him to edgeguard and got chokeslammed straight through it. This player is solely responsible for my record going down the crapper because I chose to try and figure him out rather than cutting my losses.

Ness - I've been on the other end of this fight (Ness is my other main) and won it pretty handily, which I figured was just because I'm used to Ness since he's been my main in every game so far. I've only battled maybe 2 Ness online yet, but the second one was surprisingly challenging. In typical Ness fashion, there were a lot of f-airs and PK fires. He was also remarkably good at mixing up his game and rushing in for throws. There were a few well placed yo-yos too, but nothing else really came into play, he was mostly just too quick for me. One match ended with a ceiling of PK Fires as my clownless young koopa plummeted to his death. This kid gave me one salty runback but sadly that wasn't enough time for me to get a victory.

Dark Pit - I've beaten them since, but the first Dark Pit I faced online was good enough to mention. It felt like his f-air outranged and outprioritized mine. Maybe I was just timing it wrong or something. His reflector made every cannonball risky and the mechakoopas basically nullified at best. And his side B caught me a couple times with its super armor. I haven't faced any other Dark Pit's that know what they're doing, but that one player convinced me that Dark Pit has the potential to be a threat.

Zero Suit Samus - Like Dark Pit, most of these I can beat. They're usually predictable to be honest and you can throw them off by using low, aerial side Bs on your way down, soaring over that stupid stun shot thing that they like to spam. I did face one though that was really really aggressive and she was a pain for my first stock. If she hadn't been so predictable she would have bodied me. Unfortunately for her, she was TOO aggressive. I just started throwing out Up Bs low over the stage and she ate them all. Still, if she had the common sense to go on the defensive for a few seconds and then resume her attack, I'm not sure I would have won. ZSS has the tools.

Lucina - I don't even remember how so I can't be much help here, but I did face one Lucina who had an answer for everything.

Yoshi - The way his hitboxes sway and bend when he does his moves, the speed that his smashes come out, and the surprisingly annoying anti-air that his eggs provide have given me trouble. I played against a Yoshi with the brain of a Diddy Kong, seamlessly chaining one move to the next. Wiggling my cannonball at him didn't even slow him down. And his d-air, bicycle kicking Bj right in his prepubescent face did a surprising amount of damage.

And that's every character I've struggled against so far. That could be just me and it could just be that I faced players better than me who happened to be using those characters at the time, but I figure I'll throw the info out there and we'll see if any of these characters are common problems for other Bjs. I have faced Rosalinas, and while it's true that her attacks are strong, her recovery is solid, and her blinking out of existence is annoying, I've never lost to one. She takes a little more patience, but she never felt like a counter or anything to me. Maybe I just haven't faced a truly good one.

 

[Prawn]

I have trouble with sheik, mario, zss, greninja. I switch for those a lot I feel like

 

[Collective of Bears]

I'm in the same boat in that I absolutely cannot beat Rosalina. She's the one character that I lose to almost 100% of the time. But I think Rosalina in general is a hard matchup because of how differently you have to play it. Anyone have tips for fighting her?

 

[Blanc]

after playing at a local tourney, I found myself struggling against Megaman and Ness. Both of them will sit back, spam projectiles and render your cannonballs useless with their projectiles and stop the CLOWN CAR CRUSADE

 

[BBNik]

And his d-air, bicycle kicking Bj right in his prepubescent face did a surprising amount of damage.

It's surprising because yoshi was hitting BJr's face which deals more damage than if it were to hit the car.

 

[IReidYou]

Rosalina's always interesting to fight. Up close you're gonna either want to short hop fair Luma to whittle away at him to clear space, or cross her up with low landing lag moves like nair. Training mode's assy so can't test if Jr. has any throws that can deal with the duo like Mario's back throw. I assume down throw can work though since his initial hop can avoid getting touched, then drill hitboxes doing its thing.

Midscreen you're betting off faking out with side b to get a feel of your opponent. Also you can start setting up your mechs. Yeah she can grav pull them but they're mostly used for baiting leading up to my next point.

Fullscreen you can either set up mechs or start charging your cannon. Cannon is really vital imo because it deals with so many things at once. I'm not too familiar with its mechanics but I think the longer you charge it, the higher chance it can pierce through projectiles while retaining its hitbox.
Your main reason for the cannon is to take out/damage Luma. If you charge it long enough it can hit Luma and head on a crash course for Rosa. If she grav pulled your mech and tries to throw it back at you, cannonball will hit Luma, drive through the mecha, and still try to smack Rosa. https ://gfycat.com/PertinentWelltodoIggypops (can't post a link w/ under 10 posts lol)
Remember your main goal with this tactic is to damage Luma, everything else it a bonus. This is also good since it forces her to come to you and makes her give up some of her stage control. From there you can revert back to the midscreen and close range strategies.

It's basically all about the patience in this matchup. The one who continuously goes in will have a lower chance of winning. Don't be afraid to lame it out when you can; Jr.'s one of the, I'm assuming, few characters that can force her to approach.

Edit: Matter of fact for the longest I thought the only reason why Luma barely budged when you hit him was because he was at a low %. That's partially true but then realized characters can have certain moves that automatically knock him away. Two noticeable moves Jr. has are the explosion from up b and the drift from his side b. Up b in this matchup can be used as a close ranged or out of shield option while drift can be used if they're already separated and you wanna knock him off.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Dark Pit.

>Hard to punish due to his lack of hitlag
>Easily punishes you even if it's a Smash on block
>Rushdown game is incredibly threatening. Hard to keep space.
>FSmashes outrange your own. Most of his attacks ourtange yours.
>Will counter-gimp you. If you try and gimp him, he'll Uair you back. Bowser Jr.'s low vertical recovery makes this bad even at low percentages.
>Neutral A combo is practically useless as Dark Pit can easily evade the last hit by DIing upwards. This makes it counter-punishable at higher percentages.
>Bowser Jr. lacks viable killing options. Much harder to fish for kills that Dark Pit, who can gimp better with aerials, outrange your Smashes, and of course, Side B.

However, Dark Pits have a critical weakness.

>When using Dair, the Dark Pit that tries to recover close to the edge or against the wall will not only take the hit, but will also bounce against the stage. Any attempt to recover can be countered by Dair, or you can bait him into recovering back onstage, which in turn will be punishable by a USmash.

 

[Rynhardt]

I find Rosalina to be a pretty bad matchup for Jr.. I haven't been able to find out what to do against her. Mechakoopas/Cannonballs are useless against her, she can even just use the Mechakoopas against you if you use deploy one. Approaching her is difficult, as you can't use Mechakoopas for help, and you can't use Side B to approach because Luma Shot beats it, and if you jump cancel it to get over Luma Shot, she can use any of her aerials to beat yours. I can't seem to challenge her aerials, mainly her Uair, Fair, and Bair, so being in the air against her kinda sucks, and landing against her is difficult because her Uair beats everything Jr. can do because of the range/disjoint. She can also Dthrow -> Fair you at relatively low percents. I've been playing a lot of Jr. vs Rosalina against one of my good friends, and he always seems to have the upper hand.

Koopaling is the only character I play that I can beat Rosalina with. Gotta mix in side-b mindgames. She can block it all she wants but Luma can't.

I thought Jr. could get his Clown Car back in his tumbling animation if he just presses A? Someone else mentioned that before elsewhere. So I don't really see GnW's Cook things being that annoying.

Only from launching attacks. Getting hitstunned which will save any other character from special fall will not give Koopaling the clown car back.

 

[Usopp]

Hi ive been maining bowser jr. since day1. mostly play as roy, ludwig and morton. Ive been able to pull off some cool stuff with clown car and mechakoopa. but no matter how hard i try palutena and greninjas that know that MU well give me A LOT of problems and it usually turns into me camping until i can get an opening and at that point its like take the stock or lose yours lol. Also ganondorf sometimes gives me problems mostly due to missing techs after flame choke and then the dtilt that comes right after just sends me and my clown car all the way to the top blast zone. In the beginning i had trouble with little mac until i learned his recovery is non existent and i got better at the clown car tricks. I also had alot of trouble against a wario player one time, i had to becareful when i used the cannonball and mechakoopa because he kept eating them lol. At first i was considering also getting good with someone else for the paltuena MU but like what character doesnt have a problem with her ? lol

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Mario:

>Has complete air control over Bowser Jr. Mario's Bairs > any of Bowser Jr's aerials. Mario's Nair can beat most of your own aerials and can go right over you.
>Practically immune to Bowser Jr's. Nair while on the ground. It will miss him while he punishes you from below. Trying to use Dair instead is committing suicide and asking for a free FSmash or USmash.
>Smashes have almost no hitlag. This makes it nigh-impossible to punish Mario on his Smashes.
>In contrast, Bowser Jr's Smashes have tons of hitlag, making him easy to punish. DSmash is suicide.
>Mario's USmash has more range than nearly every move Bowser Jr. has, including aerials. This is his most potent kill move and will take you down if you're in the air or getting punished on the ground
>Mario's lack of hitlag makes it hard to punish even with grabs, as Bowser Jr. has a slower grab than Mario.
>Mario prefers to recover high, using Fireballs. This shuts down Bowser Jr's gimping game and edgeguarding tactics, as his lack of potent range makes him eat fireballs or get punished with Nair.
>Your own USmash lacks a good hitbox. This makes it easy to punish.
>Nair has no landing lag. You can't punish it. In contrast, all of Bowser Jr's aerials have landing lag.

It really boils down to the fact that Mario's USmash is a strong killing move with GREAT range and no hitlag, and that his aerials beat every one of your own. In contrast, Bowser Jr. is fairly easy to punish, especially due to Mario's ability to cancel quickly in the air and his swift fastfall. Throwing him off the edge is useless because he prefers to remain high. This makes it hard to throw Mechakoopas down at him, and Jr. has nothing to punish carefully timed and spaced Fireballs.

Fighting Mario on the ground is also bad because he has multiple advantages over you here as well, especially when he sees a Side B coming. The matchup is squarely against Bowser Jr. Unless you can utilize grab punishes and never, EVER stop throwing Mechakoopas at him, you're in for the fight of your life. Maintain proper spacing so you don't get punished for trying to punish him (i.e. he USmashes and whiffs, you dash in with a grab or USmash or your own, he spotdodges and does it again, killing you).

 

[UltimateRazer]

Bad match ups include characters who have an extreme projectile based game that can stop his approaches like Megaman, Greninja shuriken, etc. These can be extremely frustrating since BJ doesn't have projectiles to fight back with and his side b is neutralized. And also characters who can provide high powered pressure like Sheik and Fox. He can't move quickly enough to escape. It's difficult to set your feet and capitalize consistently when they can break it up.

He does well vs heavies though. Can provide good pressure and reliable kill moves.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Peach:

>Like Mario, outranges all of Bowser Jr's aerials
>Side B and Nair perfectly punish Bowser Jr's Side B
>MOST OF ALL, her USmash is her primary kill method for him

Bowser Jr. has a CRITICAL weakness in this game. It's so bad that it can affect every one of his matchups and tier status. That is he has no reliable method of landing. Most characters have aerials that cover all around them. Bowser Jr. does not. Nair misses the bottom, Dair is incredibly punishable, but most of all, Fair and Bair do not cover inside of his hitobx. People can go through them and punish. Bowser Jr is in no way safe from a USmash from anyone.

 

[NidoMay]

Well if you can see a usmash coming, you can punish it using upB to drop a clown car in their face.

Generally I've found the hardest matchups to be Mario and Luigi, both have such fast paced moves it's a bit hard to punish.

Remember that you can airdodge right away after doing a sideB jump, if a Rosaluma tries their B, it's a good way to get between them.

Also, I've found that killing works best when tossing foes of the edge, then moves like fsmash become quite hard to avoid, especially when angled up or down! Speaking of, it seems a split-second of charge might improve fsmash's hitbox.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Upon further testing, I can safely say Mario and Dr. Mario are still two of Junior's detrimental matchups just because their aerials are so fast, outrange his, and can really get inside your hitbox. Plus Fireball and Megavitamin tend to hit you on the head, so your Side B can't absorb it, and the Fireball and Cape can combat the Mechakoopa - the latter turning it against you. And let's not forget USmash.

I posted some key points to their matchup, but I fought some other players recently and they were still capable of eating up a lot of his moves.

On a random semi-related note, I faced an Olimar today and Bowser Jr. is an absolute nightmare to the character. Mechakoopas are far worse than Pikmin will ever be, he's heavier and more durable, his aerials are better (Fair shuts down Olimar almost completely), his grab range is an advantage for countering, and he can easily gimp Olimar with Nair, especially if he's recovering low. Plus he has Up B to punish his recovery and ledge game as well.

 

[KVLTofMetal]

I've messed around some and Projectiles is going to be where the problem is. Specifically the Fox MU as I think alot of people will be using him. The Robin matchup not as much because his projectiles are pretty easy to see coming

 

[tekkie]

pikachu can camp the hell out of BJ, has much quicker movement and an overall faster moveset, and far easier kill options.

 

[Lord Exor]

Mecha-Koopas can absorb Thunder Jolt.

 

[SoundChow]

ROB is a really difficult matchup because his gyro and laser both stop koopa kart dash, so he can just camp at one side of the stage and stop all of our approaches. Even if you manage to corner ROB, he can just roll away and instantly send out a gyro. Also, mechakoopas are pretty useless to ROB because lasers and gyros instantly causes them to set off.

 

[Regulus]

Samus isn't easy either. At arms length we do okay, but it's tough to get up close with those missiles.

 

[Shadow_nobody]

Just abuse short hop mechs to get over missiles. They have terrible tracking and Koopa will absorb the missile as it comes out and any stop charge shots. A good samus would probably abuse Zair to outspace you and keep you in check.
Just play patient you don't always have to get in because zoning with mechs and cannons work ok until you find the right opening.

 

[tekkie]

Mecha-Koopas can absorb Thunder Jolt.

they activate the explosion on hit from TJ, so more than one TJ at a time = a loss for BJ. it isn't a realistic option.

 

[The_Altrox]

So, I haven't been working much within this community, but from playig matches online and at small, local stuff, I love using the clown kart for low air set-ups and I love using the mechakoopa for reasons of pressure. When I can use both tactics simultaneously, I'm a happy Altrox. That being said, seems to have both areas covered.

The mechakoopa setup is almost useless, as I use it for pressure and sometimes as a safeguard, knowing that making hits directly with the explosive isn't something I can count on. The issue becomes that the koopa is so obvious that any Villager worth his salt will pocket the obvious koopa. While I'm not scared of a pocketed koopa, I hate providing the villager with another option against me and with my koopa pocketed, I can't release another, rendering me useless in that regard. I don't use the cannonballs much, but they also are not an option, being how slow, obvious, and easy to dodge they are to start with. Even as a guard against offstage characters, they're easy to work around and Villager can just pocket that too.

The kart is great for set ups, but projectiles can wreck it. I rarely use the kart against Robin, for example, because her arc fires and thunder attacks stop me in my tracks. While this option is more feasible against Villager than the mechakoopa, it still lacks in the fact that a Villager who can short hop fair/bair can instantly stop this without any sort of charge. While the spin out has super armor, it can be easily dodged or shielded and then punished, making it an unreliable form of assault.

This limits my options even further. I can approach by ground or air without the kart, but I still feel outranged by the slingshot, even with the fair I love so much.

Options here? Anybody else have issues here?

 

[Blanc]

So, I haven't been working much within this community, but from playig matches online and at small, local stuff, I love using the clown kart for low air set-ups and I love using the mechakoopa for reasons of pressure. When I can use both tactics simultaneously, I'm a happy Altrox. That being said, seems to have both areas covered.

The mechakoopa setup is almost useless, as I use it for pressure and sometimes as a safeguard, knowing that making hits directly with the explosive isn't something I can count on. The issue becomes that the koopa is so obvious that any Villager worth his salt will pocket the obvious koopa. While I'm not scared of a pocketed koopa, I hate providing the villager with another option against me and with my koopa pocketed, I can't release another, rendering me useless in that regard. I don't use the cannonballs much, but they also are not an option, being how slow, obvious, and easy to dodge they are to start with. Even as a guard against offstage characters, they're easy to work around and Villager can just pocket that too.

The kart is great for set ups, but projectiles can wreck it. I rarely use the kart against Robin, for example, because her arc fires and thunder attacks stop me in my tracks. While this option is more feasible against Villager than the mechakoopa, it still lacks in the fact that a Villager who can short hop fair/bair can instantly stop this without any sort of charge. While the spin out has super armor, it can be easily dodged or shielded and then punished, making it an unreliable form of assault.

This limits my options even further. I can approach by ground or air without the kart, but I still feel outranged by the slingshot, even with the fair I love so much.

Options here? Anybody else have issues here?

villager is free and i'll tell you why.

he has no resource to stop your clown kart pressure other than a wild lloid (which is easily punishable)

get him in the air and combo him to death, dead

 

[Duck SMASH!]

I dunno why but whenever I face a good Marth I tend to lose...
The good ones I face online powershield projectiles, use his speed and range to either outspace or outrange my aerials, and his grab is pretty good while Jr's is pretty slow in return, not to mention easily edgeguarding Jr's recovery with his stupid sword.

I find Duck Hunt really really annoying to face, just cuz of his projectile based game.

 

[Conn1496]

Toon Link. That is all.

Now, normal Link isn't usually too bad a problem for me, but occasionally, a Toon Link player will beat me each time hands down due to the difference in speed (Especially when they get nasty and projectile spam.). Anyone got any tips for countering Toon Link at all?

I try to play Koops as mid-range, using the mechakoopa as a makeshift stage hazard, and sometimes spacing for the cannon, but mostly making use of his airs and up-B or side-B for surprise (usually dangerous, but hits like a truck) punish combos.

So far all I've found is double jump, side-B jump, neutral-B/down-B, and try to surprise them and drop projectiles on their head to stop range spam for just long enough to make a rush for them, but that's just unreliable as hell as it requires some precise aim and is pretty easy to dodge or perf-shield.

I also have problems with being gimped by him, usually at mid-high percentages (No idea why, I'm usually not that suceptable to gimping, it's the first thing I learned to avoid as the Koops.). Those times where I do succeed in atleast a ledgegrab they usually space and start projectile spamming again.

Those are specific situations I need help with, but any tips on this match-up would be appreciated!

 

[Sonnet]

I dunno why but whenever I face a good Marth I tend to lose...
The good ones I face online powershield projectiles, use his speed and range to either outspace or outrange my aerials, and his grab is pretty good while Jr's is pretty slow in return, not to mention easily edgeguarding Jr's recovery with his stupid sword.

I find Duck Hunt really really annoying to face, just cuz of his projectile based game.

I beat a pretty good Marth recently on For Glory by spacing like HELL and waiting for the punish. Since he's faster and outranges you, you really don't have any other option than to bide your time and wait for them to make a mistake. I baited this out by jumping around, making myself look vulnerable, and then throwing in a well-spaced bair, nair, or fair when it came time to punish. As for recovery, I usually went high with the cart, made use of my extra jump, and air dodged when I saw him coming.

I feel like this is how a lot of Junior's matchups work- it all depends on if you can space and read your opponent.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Anyone that can abuse projectiles, basically.