Diddy Kong - Instant Popgun Cancel (IPC)

[smashPony]

Hello Diddys, Im a Sheik main who goes by the name of Pony. During my time playing Smash 4, I've dedicated most of my time to developing my character's metagame in terms of optimal punishes, discovering new technology, and find new ways to utilize old technology. I'm here today to share with you what i believe to be, a new discovery for Diddy. This tech can and will change Diddy's current metagame for the better. Some Sheik mains (myself included) utilize a tech known as Instant Needle Cancelling, or INC. Here's a link to a video produced by my good friend and fellow meta-advancer, Deku Tree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnPuibqUIuA

As you can see in the video, there is a 2 frame window where Sheik can INSTANTLY cancel her needle charge and buffer a smash attack, a tilt, or a jab during this buffer window. This 2 frame window is VERY hard to reach. It's almost not worth utilizing the tech, but I find a way to do so.

Diddy has something similar he can do with his Peanut Popgun, which is what I refer to as the Instant Popgun Cancel, or IPC. Rather than having a 2 frame window to buffer an attack out of the popgun cancel (press shield while charging popgun) Diddy has NO WINDOW he has to perform these inputs in. You simply begin charging your popgun, and while still holding the special button, you input a jab, a tilt, or a smash attack and IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARDS press the shield button to cancel your popgun charge, which will allow you to perform a buffered attack directly out of a popgun charge.

Here's a link to a video i made showcasing some of the uses of Diddy's Instant Popgun Cancel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip50MgN9SI0

Why Instant Popgun Cancel, you ask? Because it lets you do any smash attack, any tilt, or a jab DIRECTLY out of a run! (Cough cough... down tilt)

If you do not use a Gamecube Controller, just apply the inputs i show below to your own mapped buttons. NOTE : You must have A+B Smash Attack turned off to use the Instant Popgun Cancel. To perform the Instant Popgun Cancel:

Press and hold the special button (I find it easier to map special to a shoulder button) or
While still holding the special button input a smash attack | | + or...

Input a tilt | | followed by

Or a jab

Immediately after inputting your attack, press the shield button or would be easiest to use.

Alright Diddy mains, i hope to see some utilization of this tech REALLY soon. It's super easy to learn, and provides so many benefits to Diddy Kong's neutral and punish game. Enjoy!

- Pony

 

[Lylo]

Holy sh*t
I was aware of the sheik INC...I'll def train this new tech
Thanks a ton for postin it.

(PS : I wouldn't call it Instant tho)

 

[Sonicninja115]

Hello Diddys, Im a Sheik main who goes by the name of Pony. During my time playing Smash 4, I've dedicated most of my time to developing my character's metagame in terms of optimal punishes, discovering new technology, and find new ways to utilize old technology. I'm here today to share with you what i believe to be, a new discovery for Diddy. This tech can and will change Diddy's current metagame for the better. Some Sheik mains (myself included) utilize a tech known as Instant Needle Cancelling, or INC. Here's a link to a video produced by my good friend and fellow meta-advancer, Deku Tree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnPuibqUIuA

As you can see in the video, there is a 2 frame window where Sheik can INSTANTLY cancel her needle charge and buffer a smash attack, a tilt, or a jab during this buffer window. This 2 frame window is VERY hard to reach. It's almost not worth utilizing the tech, but I find a way to do so.

Diddy has something similar he can do with his Peanut Popgun, which is what I refer to as the Instant Popgun Cancel, or IPC. Rather than having a 2 frame window to buffer an attack out of the popgun cancel (press shield while charging popgun) Diddy has NO WINDOW he has to perform these inputs in. You simply begin charging your popgun, and while still holding the special button, you input a jab, a tilt, or a smash attack and IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARDS press the shield button to cancel your popgun charge, which will allow you to perform a buffered attack directly out of a popgun charge.

Here's a link to a video i made showcasing some of the uses of Diddy's Instant Popgun Cancel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip50MgN9SI0

Why Instant Popgun Cancel, you ask? Because it lets you do any smash attack, any tilt, or a jab DIRECTLY out of a run! (Cough cough... down tilt)

If you do not use a Gamecube Controller, just apply the inputs i show below to your own mapped buttons. To perform the Instant Popgun Cancel:

Press and hold the special button (I find it easier to map special to a shoulder button) or
While still holding the special button input a smash attack | | + or...

Input a tilt | | followed by

Or a jab

Immediately after inputting your attack, press the shield button or would be easiest to use.

Alright Diddy mains, i hope to see some utilization of this tech REALLY soon. It's super easy to learn, and provides so many benefits to Diddy Kong's neutral and punish game. Enjoy!

- Pony

Question, does the peanut popgun have any frames of lag? Is it completely instant if you can do it fast enough, or are there five or fewer frames of lag from the PP?

Thanks for putting this together! It is definitely better then dashing into shield or dash lag.

also, can every character with a chargeable projectile do this in some capacity? I'm wondering if it would work with Mewtwo.

 

[smashPony]

Question, does the peanut popgun have any frames of lag? Is it completely instant if you can do it fast enough, or are there five or fewer frames of lag from the PP?

Thanks for putting this together! It is definitely better then dashing into shield or dash lag.

also, can every character with a chargeable projectile do this in some capacity? I'm wondering if it would work with Mewtwo.

Technically its not "instant". i just derived the name from the Instant Needle Cancel tech we came across on the Sheik boards (shoutout to Tronfox64). However with really tight timing you can get the buffered attack to come out extremely quickly after the popgun cancel. Its certainly loads faster than run to shield. Im not sure what the frame data on the fastest possible timing is but Id love for someone to look into that.

Also I did a lot of testing with all characters with chargable projectiles. From my testing Ive concluded that only Sheik, Diddy, and Pac-Man are capable of this. Unfortunately Mewtwo is one of many characters unable to pull this off :[. Which makes me sad because i couldve seen Mewtwos potential skyrocket if he could do Instant Shadow Ball Cancel.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Technically its not "instant". i just derived the name from the Instant Needle Cancel tech we came across on the Sheik boards (shoutout to Tronfox64). However with really tight timing you can get the buffered attack to come out extremely quickly after the popgun cancel. Its certainly loads faster than run to shield. Im not sure what the frame data on the fastest possible timing is but Id love for someone to look into that.

Also I did a lot of testing with all characters with chargable projectiles. From my testing Ive concluded that only Sheik, Diddy, and Pac-Man are capable of this. Unfortunately Mewtwo is one of many characters unable to pull this off :[. Which makes me sad because i couldve seen Mewtwos potential skyrocket if he could do Instant Shadow Ball Cancel.

do you know what causes this? It seems rather odd to be exclusive, does it have to do with the projectile?

 

[LiL.Will]

Haha yay Pony good ish for putting this out I thought it was known but I guess not.

 

[Orocket]

Thank you for the post! I'll definitely start using this. smashPony

 

[Sonicninja115]

I have been testing this out and setting R to specials works very well. I am able to do it nine times out of ten after a couple hours of practice using this method.

My favorite uses, DTILT is Godlike!!! Utilt for late KO's and Dsmash. Fsmash is a little more difficult, but it works.

Definitely one of the better techs with diddy.

Also, with frame perfect timing it IS instant. I was testing it out and I noticed that every once in a while the popgun would barely appear and the move would come out really fast. This is really hard to do, so I doubt it will be usable in a match unless by mistake.

 

[Lylo]

I can do standing IPC with ease.
But out of dash is like impossible for me as I keep Monkey Flip instead. Is there any trick?

 

[The Hoo Hah]

I can do standing IPC with ease.
But out of dash is like impossible for me as I keep Monkey Flip instead. Is there any trick?

You just have to practice returning the stick to neutral before you start charging the popgun. You'll get the timing down. But what I want to know is why I can't do the tilts with a direction + A, but I can do it with the c-stick set to attack. Also, is the only way to do a smash attack out of an IPC to change your c-stick to smash attack? I can't do it with my current controls

 

[smashPony]

You just have to practice returning the stick to neutral before you start charging the popgun. You'll get the timing down. But what I want to know is why I can't do the tilts with a direction + A, but I can do it with the c-stick set to attack. Also, is the only way to do a smash attack out of an IPC to change your c-stick to smash attack? I can't do it with my current controls

Nope! In my video i was doing IPC smash attacks with control stick + A. Its a bit weird getting used to the inputs but once you do its quite easy. Also you can do tilts with control stick + A as well. Just keep practicing :]

 

[The Hoo Hah]

Nope! In my video i was doing IPC smash attacks with control stick + A. Its a bit weird getting used to the inputs but once you do its quite easy. Also you can do tilts with control stick + A as well. Just keep practicing :]

Alright Thanks! Gotta practice now. Thanks for this AT

 

[smashPony]

Alright Thanks! Gotta practice now. Thanks for this AT

The way i got smash attacks to work was that i did the inputs slowly to get used to the timing of inputting a smash attack after hitting special. Remember, you have quite some time to input the attack + shield after you start charging the popgun, work your way up the fastest possible timing slowly.

 

[The Hoo Hah]

The way i got smash attacks to work was that i did the inputs slowly to get used to the timing of inputting a smash attack after hitting special. Remember, you have quite some time to input the attack + shield after you start charging the popgun, work your way up the fastest possible timing slowly.

Just figured something out! Smash attacks don't work after IPC if you have Attack+Special Smash Attack on! That was why I couldn't do it. I can do it perfectly now. You might want to add that in your thread

 

[smashPony]

Just figured something out! Smash attacks don't work after IPC if you have Attack+Special Smash Attack on! That was why I couldn't do it. I can do it perfectly now. You might want to add that in your thread

Oh wow i never thought about testing this with A+B turned on. Thanks for pointing this out. The OP has been edited :]

 

[Metal Fish]

So guys, i just found out this works with ROBs gyro. It's just a little more difficult imo. I've tested every shield cancel i could think of and found Shiek's needle storm as well, but i guess that's old news now, lol.

 

[Ghostbone]

Main application seems to be banana > dash > f-smash rather than banana > dash > u-smash, though i'm not sure whether it's actually possible in scenarios where walk up > f-smash is too slow.

And the easiest way to do this is just to set your R or L button to special.

Edit: You can do this into specials immediately as well, but that's useless because you can use specials out of a dash lmao.

 

[Agent Emerald]

Watching this thread since pretty much every neutral B AT that can be done Kirby can do as well

Metal Fish do you have a list of moves that are cancellable?

 

[Spatman]

Main application seems to be banana > dash > f-smash rather than banana > dash > u-smash, though i'm not sure whether it's actually possible in scenarios where walk up > f-smash is too slow.

And the easiest way to do this is just to set your R or L button to special.

Edit: You can do this into specials immediately as well, but that's useless because you can use specials out of a dash lmao.

I misunderstood or you are saying to do a fsmash holding a banana in the hand? isn't it impossible to do?

 

[Jaylowww]

I misunderstood or you are saying to do a fsmash holding a banana in the hand? isn't it impossible to do?

He meant banana toss -> dash -> fsmash, instead of the usual usmash follow-up after the toss, since fsmash kills earlier (if it's sweetspotted) and does more damage

 

[Spatman]

He meant banana toss -> dash -> fsmash, instead of the usual usmash follow-up after the toss, since fsmash kills earlier (if it's sweetspotted) and does more damage

oh, ok! but this was possible before too, using gliding toss

 

[Spatman]

This technique is so difficult to do... I put specials on R but still... actually the technique itself is easy. The problem is to do it in a game. In particular it's really hard to do: dash --> ipc --> tilts/smash (tilts harder than smash)
often diddy does an ipc-grab instead of an ipc-smash, even using c-stick for smash attacks.. I don't know how could I do...

ps: this post doesn't count as "double post", does it? it was written a week later my last post

 

[Lylo]

You grab means you have to press shield a bit later

 

[Spatman]

You grab means you have to press shield a bit later

I'll try to do so... but if a I press shield a bit later the risk is that the ipc won't be "instant" anymore...

 

[Conti]

Hello Diddys, Im a Sheik main who goes by the name of Pony. During my time playing Smash 4, I've dedicated most of my time to developing my character's metagame in terms of optimal punishes, discovering new technology, and find new ways to utilize old technology. I'm here today to share with you what i believe to be, a new discovery for Diddy. This tech can and will change Diddy's current metagame for the better. Some Sheik mains (myself included) utilize a tech known as Instant Needle Cancelling, or INC. Here's a link to a video produced by my good friend and fellow meta-advancer, Deku Tree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnPuibqUIuA

As you can see in the video, there is a 2 frame window where Sheik can INSTANTLY cancel her needle charge and buffer a smash attack, a tilt, or a jab during this buffer window. This 2 frame window is VERY hard to reach. It's almost not worth utilizing the tech, but I find a way to do so.

Diddy has something similar he can do with his Peanut Popgun, which is what I refer to as the Instant Popgun Cancel, or IPC. Rather than having a 2 frame window to buffer an attack out of the popgun cancel (press shield while charging popgun) Diddy has NO WINDOW he has to perform these inputs in. You simply begin charging your popgun, and while still holding the special button, you input a jab, a tilt, or a smash attack and IMMEDIATELY AFTERWARDS press the shield button to cancel your popgun charge, which will allow you to perform a buffered attack directly out of a popgun charge.

Here's a link to a video i made showcasing some of the uses of Diddy's Instant Popgun Cancel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip50MgN9SI0

Why Instant Popgun Cancel, you ask? Because it lets you do any smash attack, any tilt, or a jab DIRECTLY out of a run! (Cough cough... down tilt)

If you do not use a Gamecube Controller, just apply the inputs i show below to your own mapped buttons. NOTE : You must have A+B Smash Attack turned off to use the Instant Popgun Cancel. To perform the Instant Popgun Cancel:

Press and hold the special button (I find it easier to map special to a shoulder button) or
While still holding the special button input a smash attack | | + or...

Input a tilt | | followed by

Or a jab

Immediately after inputting your attack, press the shield button or would be easiest to use.

Alright Diddy mains, i hope to see some utilization of this tech REALLY soon. It's super easy to learn, and provides so many benefits to Diddy Kong's neutral and punish game. Enjoy!

- Pony

I discovered something similar to the 1st part of this technique a year ago but was too unmotivated to make a video. I called it the Perfect Popgun Cancle, i actually recorded myself with a mic going over the tech but never had a chance to hook up my elgato n make some clips. Honestly the 2nd application the IPC with the tilt cancles i didnt realize was possible on the ground because i was so focused on the airiel applications to the tech, amazing find. Good stuff

I want to make a video on the other application you can do with the Popgun Cancle that you didnt cover. Honestly probly gunna make tomorrow before someone jacks it xD.
It involves basically what mysmashcorner foundout, the wavebounce needles and your IPC discovery.
TLDR, Diddy can basically FADC in the air with IPC. I'll explain it all in the video im too tired to type xD

Edit: Video will be made by weekend :D editting might suck -.-

 

[Sonicninja115]

I'll try to do so... but if a I press shield a bit later the risk is that the ipc won't be "instant" anymore...

There is always going to be a bit of lag, but it will always be faster then stopping your dash into a tilt/smash.

 

[Spatman]

There is always going to be a bit of lag, but it will always be faster then stopping your dash into a tilt/smash.

Yes, now I can do it pretty well ^^
Thanks!

 

[Deleted member]

smashPony
Sonicninja115

The fastest input you can perform out of a IPC is on Frame 14...
http://gfycat.com/DownrightMeekHornet

Tested this too many times and this is the fastest I could pull it off, as well as yourself in the video Pony...

As for the Frame window input gap...you have to input the attack on OR before Frame 53.
You have to make the input before Diddy shows the hump animation on the Popgun...
http://gfycat.com/UnevenVerifiableBernesemountaindog

IPC is faster than a Shield Flicker (Run to Shield to Attack), which is Frame 19.
Nonetheless this works way too well with DTilt...Amazing work Pony.

 

[divade]

Labbing this without losing my r or less button. Very tough. Working on using side taunt for shields so I can just use this tech for tilts but then I still need r as special. Hmmm not sure if I'll be picking this up.
Edit: tried having s taunt to special and r to shield, and c stick to tilts. It sort of works. But if I crouch during my dash it messes things up damn idk.

 

[divade]

smashPony
Sonicninja115

The fastest input you can perform out of a IPC is on Frame 14...
http://gfycat.com/DownrightMeekHornet

Tested this too many times and this is the fastest I could pull it off, as well as yourself in the video Pony...

As for the Frame window input gap...you have to input the attack on OR before Frame 53.
You have to make the input before Diddy shows the hump animation on the Popgun...
http://gfycat.com/UnevenVerifiableBernesemountaindog

IPC is faster than a Shield Flicker (Run to Shield to Attack), which is Frame 19.
Nonetheless this works way too well with DTilt...Amazing work Pony.

Is that frame 19 when you put up a shield, or the first actionable frame after it drops?

 

[Pazx]

Is that frame 19 when you put up a shield, or the first actionable frame after it drops?

That's the FAF (or maybe first hitbox frame?) after a shield flicker.

Also please try to avoid double posting in the future, just edit your post.

 

[divade]

That's the FAF (or maybe first hitbox frame?) after a shield flicker.

Also please try to avoid double posting in the future, just edit your post.

hmm, so sheild flicker is 5 frames slower on a perfect IPC? sounds nice once you master it but debatable f you aren't perfect at it. guess it depends on consistency.