Did they reduce the landing lag?

[Shudouken]

Did they actually listen to the competetive players after the e3 tournament and reduce the landing lag?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/47208810/lucina-landing_lag.webm

 

[z00ted]

more than likely, it's hard to know for sure because lucina's an entirely new character but i would like to hope so

 

[MontyMonterson]

Would be amazing if true, but I doubt it. Still, what are the odds we might see a new demo @ Gamescom next month? Can't wait to finally play this game.

 

[Khao]

If true, that's really freaking good news.

How did Marth's nair's lag compare to that at E3?

 

[Pazzo.]

Whew, that looks a LOT better.

 

[skstylez]

Wow great find! A few points that might work against this..
1. She looks like a faster Marth
2. That move usually auto cancels or has very little landing lag.

Still, it doesn't seem to be an auto cancel and it's way faster than normal landing lag... here's hoping!

 

[Book Jacket]

Dang that was fast

I hope that applies to more than just her. If they actually do reduce aerial lag, that would work wonders for the competitive scene.

Now if we could just get aerial momentum.

 

[Zeallyx]

That looks promising indeed =D

 

[Senario]

Very fast, lets home that isn't an auto cancel like brawl. Having auto cancels only happen at the end of an animation or beginning is terrible. All or nothing. All quick landing lag or bust

 

[LancerStaff]

It's been what, a month, since E3? That's about how long it takes to make these videos and mechanical changes.

Either A: Lucina is faster then Marth.
B: The game was already faster before E3.
Or C, my bet: The trailer is tricking people into thinking the game is faster, much like previous ones.

 

[RomanceDawn]

The E3 demo was outdated way before E3 started. I'm sure things have changed.

 

[Phyr]

It lasts 6 frames in the video, 12 frames in the reality (video is at 30 fps, you can count it). That's actually lower than melee's landing lag (a lot more if you count it lcanceled tho, but it's a good middle point).

 

[Book Jacket]

I guess that now the only question is whether or not it auto canceled. It did look to be about the right timing for an auto cancel. We can only hope it isn't.

 

[Senario]

It lasts 6 frames in the video, 12 frames in the reality (video is at 30 fps, you can count it). That's actually lower than melee's landing lag (a lot more if you count it lcanceled tho, but it's a good middle point).

Totally forgot about video being 30 fps. Hmm hopefully that is fast enough to properly follow up. And hopefully it translates well to other chars. Long landing lag on slower characters is why they can't keep up with faster ones. Also causes general problems with followups.

 

[ferioku]

And of course there will be melee players that will downgrade it.

Hope that the landing lag has been improved, people need to give more faith.

 

[sunshinesan]

This is the first thing I noticed, lol.
It seems like a jerky L-cancel animation to me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if it is auto cancelled, shouldn't the normal landing animation play?
Regardless, fast = good.

 

[ferioku]

It's been what, a month, since E3? That's about how long it takes to make these videos and mechanical changes.

Either A: Lucina is faster then Marth.
B: The game was already faster before E3.
Or C, my bet: The trailer is tricking people into thinking the game is faster, much like previous ones.

Are you forgetting that the build was early, this build was there for a while now!

 

[mimgrim]

I guess that now the only question is whether or not it auto canceled. It did look to be about the right timing for an auto cancel. We can only hope it isn't.

If it was auto-canceled there would have not been any end lag from the move, instead only the characters normal lag from landing and if this is true;

It lasts 6 frames in the video, 12 frames in the reality (video is at 30 fps, you can count it). That's actually lower than melee's landing lag (a lot more if you count it lcanceled tho, but it's a good middle point).

Then that's is a lot for normal landing lag lol.

 

[WishOn]

Wow, if that's true, then this is a huge improvement.

 

[xerui]

Pikachu had very little landing lag on his nair in the E3 / Best Buy build, while most other characters experienced fairly severe landing lag on most of their moves.

From the trailer today, there appears to be little to no landing lag on Lucina's nair, although that doesn't mean that landing lag has been reduced for other characters (or even for Lucina's other aerial attacks).

 

[pizzapie7]

Nice find. Definitely an improvement, even if mashed potato samurai doesn't listen to anything the competitive players said this is a great step going forward.

 

[Book Jacket]

Nice find. Definitely an improvement, even if mashed potato samurai doesn't listen to anything the competitive players said this is a great step going forward.

As far as that goes, the initial balancing might be focused on Free For Alls (since that's what most people play) and then once they think they have that more sturdy, they move on to 1v1 balancing. I dunno, I'm just guessing, but it's a nice thought.

 

[Mr. KoopaTurtle]

Did they actually listen to the competetive players after the e3 tournament and reduce the landing lag?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/47208810/lucina-landing_lag.webm

I'm sorry, but I'm not so sure. Watch the new video again. Robin performs his F-air on Fox, and when he lands, it has some very lengthy lag on it..

 

[Senario]

And of course there will be melee players that will downgrade it.

Hope that the landing lag has been improved, people need to give more faith.

Faith is earned not freely given. Sakurai has shown he does not deserve blind faith. If he had kept the game with enough competitive elements and not taken them out in brawl less people would be worried.

12 frames of landing lag seems like a lot and again, hopefully it is fast enough and helps out slower chars well. Though honestly. I don't see a problem with melee speed L canceled landing lag if it is automatic all the time on landing. You can't make it simpler than that. There is no tech difficulty besides landing.

 

[Book Jacket]

I'm sorry, but I'm not so sure. Watch the new video again. Robin performs his F-air on Fox, and when he lands, it has some very lengthy lag on it..

I think that one's more of a high knockback, but yeah, it looks lag-loaded.

 

[ferioku]

Faith is earned not freely given. Sakurai has shown he does not deserve blind faith. If he had kept the game with enough competitive elements and not taken them out in brawl less people would be worried.

12 frames of landing lag seems like a lot and again, hopefully it is fast enough and helps out slower chars well. Though honestly. I don't see a problem with melee speed L canceled landing lag if it is automatic all the time on landing. You can't make it simpler than that. There is no tech difficulty besides landing.

Sakurai did say that he wanted to please both crowds, he made a mistake on 1 game, common give the guy a chance. I understand that brawl was a shame for a lot of the competitive players but people are judging this game by its early build, there was a lot of problems in the demo...
Anyway, if this is actually true then i'm sure this will make a lot of melee fans happy, and I really want a game that both sides of the community enjoys playing, and I hope this is the game that allows that =/

 

[HeavyLobster]

Right now it seems like landing lag varies a lot from character to character. Hopefully Sakurai balances the game by making landing lag relatively low for everyone instead of making it high for everyone.

 

[Senario]

Sakurai did say that he wanted to please both crowds, he made a mistake on 1 game, common give the guy a chance. I understand that brawl was a shame for a lot of the competitive players but people are judging this game by its early build, there was a lot of problems in the demo...
Anyway, if this is actually true then i'm sure this will make a lot of melee fans happy, and I really want a game that both sides of the community enjoys playing, and I hope this is the game that allows that =/

What is true? Landing lag at 6 frames seems like exactly what is needed for a move like this but if you remember 30 fps vs 60 fps on most videos...that is actually 12 frames. Which makes it exceedingly long lag for a fighting game. Low landing lag across the board makes everything move faster and punishes slower chars less which is a good thing considering speed naturally has an advantage. It also gives you a reason to be on offense as some moves are safe on block or dodge. If they aren't you have a heavy defense game that is favored because trying to attack your opponent just let's you get punished.

As for Sakurai, I have 0 confidence in him and competitive balancing as he has said multiple times that he doesn't believe the game should be competitive and balances some chars around 4 player free for all (hint: mode is too chaotic to balance around). His for glory mode was even laughably ignorant of the competitive scene where even Nintendo got it right with finals being on battlefield. Until Sakurai shows that he cares equally about the competitive scene as he does stuffing as much content like assist trophies in the game he does not deserve the benefit of the doubt since he hasn't earned it.

 

[ferioku]

What is true? Landing lag at 6 frames seems like exactly what is needed for a move like this but if you remember 30 fps vs 60 fps on most videos...that is actually 12 frames. Which makes it exceedingly long lag for a fighting game. Low landing lag across the board makes everything move faster and punishes slower chars less which is a good thing considering speed naturally has an advantage. It also gives you a reason to be on offense as some moves are safe on block or dodge. If they aren't you have a heavy defense game that is favored because trying to attack your opponent just let's you get punished.

As for Sakurai, I have 0 confidence in him and competitive balancing as he has said multiple times that he doesn't believe the game should be competitive and balances some chars around 4 player free for all (hint: mode is too chaotic to balance around). His for glory mode was even laughably ignorant of the competitive scene where even Nintendo got it right with finals being on battlefield. Until Sakurai shows that he cares equally about the competitive scene as he does stuffing as much content like assist trophies in the game he does not deserve the benefit of the doubt since he hasn't earned it.

No one knows if the game will be slow or not, so no one should make any assumptions. I'm not saying the game will be slow like brawl or fast like melee, so I don't see why anyone should bash on it.

 

[Celestis]

The landing lag is decent, but I am more interested in less lag for attacks.

 

[Wazygoose]

Faith is earned not freely given. Sakurai has shown he does not deserve blind faith. If he had kept the game with enough competitive elements and not taken them out in brawl less people would be worried.

12 frames of landing lag seems like a lot and again, hopefully it is fast enough and helps out slower chars well. Though honestly. I don't see a problem with melee speed L canceled landing lag if it is automatic all the time on landing. You can't make it simpler than that. There is no tech difficulty besides landing.

Sorry I just have to say this. Faith is completely freely given, that's basically the definition of faith. Trust is earned and not freely given. People can have blind faith all they want, what Sakurai is not is trustworthy.

 

[chipndip]

I made an account primarily just to reply to this:

Don't get your hopes up. The landing lag mechanics seem to be similar to Brawl based on this. If you land while your hit-boxes are out, you're gonna be sluggish. However, she was done with her attack, so she was much quicker in recovering even though the animation didn't exactly finish. They may have actually reduced it for incomplete aerials across the board, but this is no indication based on what I see.

 

[ferioku]

I made an account primarily just to reply to this:

Don't get your hopes up. The landing lag mechanics seem to be similar to Brawl based on this. If you land while your hit-boxes are out, you're gonna be sluggish. However, she was done with her attack, so she was much quicker in recovering even though the animation didn't exactly finish. They may have actually reduced it for incomplete aerials across the board, but this is no indication based on what I see.

We will see anyway the game isn't finished and the build we played was very old.

All im going to say about people that keep complaining is, no one is forcing them to buy the new smash. If you don't truly like it, then stick to melee.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

No one knows if the game will be slow or not, so no one should make any assumptions. I'm not saying the game will be slow like brawl or fast like melee, so I don't see why anyone should bash on it.

Can we all just agree that Smash 4 is going to be like Smash 4?

 

[Road Death Wheel]

well the game the pro played in the tournament is an early build 3ds has very low landing lag so that could mean good things for the wiiu.

 

[ferioku]

Can we all just agree that Smash 4 is going to be like Smash 4?

That's exactly what I'm trying to do. I just hate it when people always have reasons to hate an unreleased game

 

[staindgrey]

It's been what, a month, since E3? That's about how long it takes to make these videos and mechanical changes.

Either A: Lucina is faster then Marth.
B: The game was already faster before E3.
Or C, my bet: The trailer is tricking people into thinking the game is faster, much like previous ones.

The demo we all played at Best Buy was very likely a month to three months old by the time we got our hands on it. I can't speak for when this video was made, though. It's fully possible that there was a significant amount of developmental changes between our playable demo and what we're seeing in this video.

 

[JCDied4U]

Sorry I just have to say this. Faith is completely freely given, that's basically the definition of faith. Trust is earned and not freely given. People can have blind faith all they want, what Sakurai is not is trustworthy.

Actually, I wouldn't define faith that way, as the Bible defines it, Faith is believing in something you can't see based on what you can see. That's the best definition imo, unless you mean blind faith which is something else entirely.

 

[staindgrey]

That's exactly what I'm trying to do. I just hate it when people always have reasons to hate an unreleased game

I don't think blindly throwing around the word "hate" is a good idea. People have a right to be concerned about a product in which they are heavily invested. Normal people don't just blindly trust things they're about to spend money on; they want to know they'll love it first.

People here have genuine concerns about the longevity of the game as a competitive fighter after Brawl actively tried to dissuade people from playing the game that way. I mean, despite Brawl's 2008 release, 2001's Melee was the featured Smash game at EVO this year. That says a lot about Brawl as a competitive fighter. Since this is a board heavily geared toward the competitive side of this series, naturally forum members are dissecting and analyzing what they see through that lens.

Can't blame 'em.

 

[staindgrey]

Actually, I wouldn't define faith that way, as the Bible defines it, Faith is believing in something you can't see based on what you can see. That's the best definition imo, unless you mean blind faith which is something else entirely.

I'm not an active Christian anymore, but the Bible has multiple "definitions" depending upon which book you're reading, which translation you're reading and how you interpret that translation of that verse.

I think the dictionary term is more relevant in this setting.

1. belief or trust: belief in, devotion to, or trust in somebody or something, especially without logical proof

Anyway, neither here nor there. Carry on.


EDIT: Apologies for the double post. I just assumed the thread would be active enough for me to post again and have someone come before me.