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- Thread starter Tom
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Maven89
Smash Master
Then I guess my disgust is just directed towards LoneKon instead of Natz
edit: nah it's still both
edit: nah it's still both
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Holder of the Heel
Fiat justitia, pereat mundus
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I'm certainly not allowing either account to participate any game that I host, and will back out of any game with either name on the player list.
It's not about the problems of both users being in the same game, the real problem is deeper than that. Each individually have shown a lack of respect for everyone else and an interest in abusing trust. Such things are the bare minimum standard anyone has to meet before any mafia game or mafia-like game can function. Let alone provide an enjoyable experience.
It's not about the problems of both users being in the same game, the real problem is deeper than that. Each individually have shown a lack of respect for everyone else and an interest in abusing trust. Such things are the bare minimum standard anyone has to meet before any mafia game or mafia-like game can function. Let alone provide an enjoyable experience.
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Fire Emblemier
The Crests are to Blame
You have every right to do that. As trust is something earned and hard to regain if broken. Those who join a game with players who have cheated becore are taking a risk after all, in the case things do not change. So I understand if certain users wouldn't feel comfortable being in a game with them.
Though, I believe if either one truly desired to change their behavior. I would allow them to play in my setups so they can prove they have changed and can go the distance when it comes to being part of a fair and enjoyable experience. If say they haven't learned their lesson and repeat the same mistakes. Then they should be blacklisted. Basically, a "fool me once, fool me twice" sorta thing. As a community I feel its best to forgive if the wrongdoer proves themself as not the same as they once were.
Maven89
Smash Master
I agree with allowing them a second chance, but I still think there should be a time out period. Something around "until the end of the year", in 3 months. The same time they were messing with us. After that, the slate can be wiped clean and we can go on as if it never happened.
I know you guys have known Natz much longer then me, and don't want to no longer be able to play with a friend. I don't want to try and take that from you. But I really feel we should, as a community, agree to not allow them to play for a while. Allow them both into the green rooms for the games, let them comment, but not play with us, until a certain time has passed.
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BarDulL
Town Vampire
While I want to remain impartial, I understand the feelings of the players here.
Natz very visibly allowed this behavior to persist and enabled LoneKonWolf to cheat. She was well aware of what was occurring and deliberately lied to people about this, even the other members of NZone that play here, while Kon deliberately tried to mask this behavior. This was a clear abuse of trust.
While I may not have handled it in the best way, I think some people do not realize exactly how far this abuse of trust went. They do not realize or understand the anger I or others felt after having discovered what had truly transpired. It is straight up morally wrong to do this. Period.
I will also not be playing any games with them until they serve their time. Just exactly what "serving their time" entails to is open for discussion, should we ever get there.
Natz very visibly allowed this behavior to persist and enabled LoneKonWolf to cheat. She was well aware of what was occurring and deliberately lied to people about this, even the other members of NZone that play here, while Kon deliberately tried to mask this behavior. This was a clear abuse of trust.
While I may not have handled it in the best way, I think some people do not realize exactly how far this abuse of trust went. They do not realize or understand the anger I or others felt after having discovered what had truly transpired. It is straight up morally wrong to do this. Period.
I will also not be playing any games with them until they serve their time. Just exactly what "serving their time" entails to is open for discussion, should we ever get there.
#HBC | Nabe
Beneath it all, he had H-cups all along
Hey, how about that local sports team?
#HBC | ѕoup
The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.
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Fedora Enigmatica solves the case!
BarDulL
Town Vampire
Nah. Wait til the end of Phantom Mafia.
BarDulL
Town Vampire
Knowing I played a strong game and thinking my game was absolutely perfect are two separate things. I am not an arrogant clown and people know this. I know when I have played bad and I say it when it happens.
Edit: sorry, still touchy about this subject.
Edit: sorry, still touchy about this subject.
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Maven89
Smash Master
/in before it turns out Bardull is both LoneKonWolf and Natz, and set this whole thing up so we could congratulate him on being so smart as to catch people cheating
BarDulL
Town Vampire
Ughhhhhh
I love you guys, I really do. Just remember that.
BBL
I love you guys, I really do. Just remember that.
BBL
giraffelasergun
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2010
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He's really going for that long Kon.
Sephiroths Masamune
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Guys, I'm sorry I was Bardull the whole time.
Fandangox
Smash Lord
thats how I play every game
#HBC | Nabe
Beneath it all, he had H-cups all along
![Terywj [태리]](/data/avatars/s/71/71007.jpg?1555906021){kind=avatar}
BarDulL
Town Vampire
I had completely forgotten about Vinyl, lol.
Come to think of it, there is 1 member here that reminds me of Vinyl. :^)
Come to think of it, there is 1 member here that reminds me of Vinyl. :^)
Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
hey
#HBC | Nabe
Beneath it all, he had H-cups all along
play mafia yo
Maven89
Smash Master
I got pinked
I don’t know what that means
I don’t know what that means
#HBC | Nabe
Beneath it all, he had H-cups all along
It's a "prank" from a premium user.
I'm disappointed that someone keeps using up all their pranks on other people, rather than saving them all to use on me on consecutive months.
Fandangox
Smash Lord
Is that the same as getting norted?
giraffelasergun
Smash Lord
- Joined
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- 1,173
Whatever they do, I hope they don’t try to prank me by changing my name to be pink. That’s the last thing I would want to happen.
Sephiroths Masamune
Shocodoro Blagshidect
I remember prank names. This takes me back to 2012.
#HBC | Nabe
Beneath it all, he had H-cups all along
BarDulL
Town Vampire
Trying to find a good Jack Skellington avatar. Haven't come across one that I really like yet though :<. Hard times for the Bard rn
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Maven89
Smash Master
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#HBC | Nabe
Beneath it all, he had H-cups all along
Maven89
Smash Master
If you type "mafiascum" into google images, halfway down the first page is Marshy's avatar
swag
swag
giraffelasergun
Smash Lord
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- Oct 20, 2010
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Depending on how far down you go, Red Ryu's, Vult's, Fand's, and your old avatar show up to.
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BarDulL
Town Vampire
Thanks guys. I appreciate it. I'm thinking this may be the one. Could it be?
Sigh, I'm sorry, I just need to say it. I need to vent a little, guys. It's on my mind. I know this is the social, but I don't want to make another thread about it.
I'm pretty sad about what happened not too many days ago, and it's stuck in my head. I kind of awkwardly joked about it a post above, but really, I'm upset. A part of me feels that I did the right thing, but another part of me regrets pointing out what was really going on because it also really hurt two of our members.
Would you all have preferred me to not be transparent? To just not say a word even though I knew with certainty what really happened? Should I have just told you guys in a mass private conversation and not in a public thread? What would you all have done in my shoes?
My biggest regret is that I really did like them both. I still do, even though I know what they did. They are a blast to have around in socials, but even still, I felt that they really needed to learn their lesson, and no amount of protecting them or keeping it from the open was going to change the fact that this is a behavior that they absolutely needed to change.
I didn't do what I did just because I was directly involved in those games. I also didn't do what I did even though I lost in those games that I was involved with them in. It was the principle, as well as the fact that those 4 games can not ever be looked at as examples of standard mafia. We can never look back at them under a normal scope. Had anyone else in Decisive Games done it, I would have treated them the same exact way, and I think it would also feel the same way; there would be a hole in my heart.
Sorry for being a downer. I am going to take a break from Decisive Games. Perhaps a week or so.
Sigh, I'm sorry, I just need to say it. I need to vent a little, guys. It's on my mind. I know this is the social, but I don't want to make another thread about it.
I'm pretty sad about what happened not too many days ago, and it's stuck in my head. I kind of awkwardly joked about it a post above, but really, I'm upset. A part of me feels that I did the right thing, but another part of me regrets pointing out what was really going on because it also really hurt two of our members.
Would you all have preferred me to not be transparent? To just not say a word even though I knew with certainty what really happened? Should I have just told you guys in a mass private conversation and not in a public thread? What would you all have done in my shoes?
My biggest regret is that I really did like them both. I still do, even though I know what they did. They are a blast to have around in socials, but even still, I felt that they really needed to learn their lesson, and no amount of protecting them or keeping it from the open was going to change the fact that this is a behavior that they absolutely needed to change.
I didn't do what I did just because I was directly involved in those games. I also didn't do what I did even though I lost in those games that I was involved with them in. It was the principle, as well as the fact that those 4 games can not ever be looked at as examples of standard mafia. We can never look back at them under a normal scope. Had anyone else in Decisive Games done it, I would have treated them the same exact way, and I think it would also feel the same way; there would be a hole in my heart.
Sorry for being a downer. I am going to take a break from Decisive Games. Perhaps a week or so.
#HBC | Nabe
Beneath it all, he had H-cups all along
you rn
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#HBC | Nabe
Beneath it all, he had H-cups all along
You have a tendency to get attached to issues and amp up their seriousness factor. It's true that cheating is a bummer, and it's true that this was no small thing that happened in terms of mafia, but I'd still hang out with those kids at the sock-hop, and I'd even still invite one of them to the dance. It's good that you were transparent, but it was clear that how much it was itching at you made you scratch harder, and I think you probably aired it sooner than you would have liked to, had you thought about it away from the situation for a little longer. It was a dumb thing that someone did, don't let it speak to you of grave implications. Let it slip off of you at the end of the day, and remind yourself that we're playing games, not doing important things like judging pickles competitively. Anyway, as best I can tell, no one seems to be judging you for fixing what was a broken situation, except for you.
giraffelasergun
Smash Lord
- Joined
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- 1,173
As someone that didn't play in any of the games in question I'm also a bit upset about what happened, so i can understand that the players that played in them would be very frustrated. Talking about it transparently/in a public thread was a good idea because A) we don't have that awkward "who knows who doesn't know" moment, B) it discourages other people from performing similar actions. No one is holding the way you handled the situation against you, I think the punishment is justified. It might be good to take some time and step away from the room, because time generally allows you to be less attached to the situation and really think it through. This is very realistically something as a community we'll all be able to forgive and forget about in a relatively short period of time.
You're still the homie, Barddog.
You're still the homie, Barddog.
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i think it was ok and that no one judges you for your course of action. you laid out your point of view and justification thoroughly. there definitely seemed to b some underlying anger tinging your posts when discussing it but i cut you slack cuz i kno you felt that your time and effort was violated flagrantly in a way that could b perceived as downright disrespectful. and that you believed you and your friends were wronged. thatll piss plenty of ppl off; youre only human man
i think nabes prolly right in that you may b being a bit hard on yourself but i understand it. as someone who took action that eventually resulted in the ousting of 2 liked and fun members of the room, perhaps thats weighed on you because there have been repercussions thats resulted in some bad feels and you were near the eye of this ****storm trying to fix it which is a difficult place to b. and when you are friendly with someone and are 1) put in a position where you have to take something that they value away from them (whether it b social standing or the ability to interact here in this instance) and 2) impact the dynamic of the relationship in a direction that neither of you want it to go but there seems to b no alternative but letting grimy behavior slide without letting the ppl who are affected by it know (which is unacceptable on a moral and personal level), that **** can b tough. yeah its a game and it can b viewed thru a lens of 'lmao cheating forum mafia' but i understand ppl put great time and effort into these games and theres a universally agreed upon rule to play by the book. theres no textbook on how to go about these kinds of difficult situations that frankly shouldnt happen in the first place so its forgivable if things didnt go as smoothly as one might have hoped in my opinion
i think you were just trying to do the right thing on a moral and just level. i view your actions as someone staunchly committed to preserving justice/integrity and willing to engage in honest conflict over false social harmony which is a trait i respect. sometimes doing the right thing doesnt always feel right
i think nabes prolly right in that you may b being a bit hard on yourself but i understand it. as someone who took action that eventually resulted in the ousting of 2 liked and fun members of the room, perhaps thats weighed on you because there have been repercussions thats resulted in some bad feels and you were near the eye of this ****storm trying to fix it which is a difficult place to b. and when you are friendly with someone and are 1) put in a position where you have to take something that they value away from them (whether it b social standing or the ability to interact here in this instance) and 2) impact the dynamic of the relationship in a direction that neither of you want it to go but there seems to b no alternative but letting grimy behavior slide without letting the ppl who are affected by it know (which is unacceptable on a moral and personal level), that **** can b tough. yeah its a game and it can b viewed thru a lens of 'lmao cheating forum mafia' but i understand ppl put great time and effort into these games and theres a universally agreed upon rule to play by the book. theres no textbook on how to go about these kinds of difficult situations that frankly shouldnt happen in the first place so its forgivable if things didnt go as smoothly as one might have hoped in my opinion
i think you were just trying to do the right thing on a moral and just level. i view your actions as someone staunchly committed to preserving justice/integrity and willing to engage in honest conflict over false social harmony which is a trait i respect. sometimes doing the right thing doesnt always feel right
Sephiroths Masamune
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Bardull, I think you're just stressing too much. It's not like you could have known in any way what was going on, and it's not like people are mad at you for doing your job. Rest easy.
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Take a break. Anyways,
I'll probably receive a lot of flak for this, but I feel it's a disservice to be dishonest so I'll say what I think: I didn't have a problem with you outing the accused. These things are bound to happen in Mafia communities, and, as someone who used to help administrate and host games on one, I can understand dealing with cheaters/godkilled players. We sometimes have to deal with it to uphold the game - that is fine. I'll even be the first to admit that sometimes, when dealing with godkills/cheaters, they got dealt with in a way that was less than favorable and didn't work. I have regrets about games hosted, and I know the main person I worked with also definitely could have assessed situations (somewhat similar) to this one.
What I have a problem with is not that the situation was assessed, but how the situation was assessed. You have a lot of people here, both from DGames and NZoners (Not to tout my horn either, but, me that's a mix of both, I guess, and one of the two managers of the Writing Team.). Why not ask them and have an open discussion about how to assess the situation, so that way, you mitigate to the best possible outcome? Situations like these are always going to ruffle feathers, but that's no reason to poison the fish tank. I wouldn't have had as much of a problem if, assuming the accused are guilty in all games, if they were warned for each game instance in specific, but this was their first time being warned, too. They don't know how severely hurt other people were by this until someone pointed it out. Often in Power, the best thing to do is consult other people if it's a complicated issue, especially if it's an issue that's already compromising ethics: You don't throw Poison to fix the Fish Tank; you replace the water.
I'm thinking about this from multiple lenses; we're all people, and while I am at no liberty to speak from the perspective of you or the accused, I'll speak personally. I came back to this community because Nabe politely tagged me (<3 Nabe) so I decided "Sure, I'll try hosting again." and Vaanrose (<3) asked me politely if I'd like to join his game. I said yes. Seeing this before the first game I even played back on here finished made me go "Are we really doing the drama thing again?" and quite honestly I've dealt with enough Godkills and games compromised. I'd rather not relive drama with a fresh coat of paint.
What's done is done. I bring this up for future situations.
If anything like this does ever arise again (or if any of ya'll want to chat about Mafia I guess; I love talking hosting), know that my PM Box and Discord are open for anyone who's willing to chat with an open mind. I'm always going to look for the solution that makes as many people as possible happy simply because
1) It's in my nature. Ya'll will have to just live with it.
2) It's literally a part of my career. (My Master's that I'm working on is entirely in Management. I'd like to think I know a thing or two. Reflective Listening is one of those, for a start)
Hope you have a good break; unease some of that stress. Meditation helps.
I'll probably receive a lot of flak for this, but I feel it's a disservice to be dishonest so I'll say what I think: I didn't have a problem with you outing the accused. These things are bound to happen in Mafia communities, and, as someone who used to help administrate and host games on one, I can understand dealing with cheaters/godkilled players. We sometimes have to deal with it to uphold the game - that is fine. I'll even be the first to admit that sometimes, when dealing with godkills/cheaters, they got dealt with in a way that was less than favorable and didn't work. I have regrets about games hosted, and I know the main person I worked with also definitely could have assessed situations (somewhat similar) to this one.
What I have a problem with is not that the situation was assessed, but how the situation was assessed. You have a lot of people here, both from DGames and NZoners (Not to tout my horn either, but, me that's a mix of both, I guess, and one of the two managers of the Writing Team.). Why not ask them and have an open discussion about how to assess the situation, so that way, you mitigate to the best possible outcome? Situations like these are always going to ruffle feathers, but that's no reason to poison the fish tank. I wouldn't have had as much of a problem if, assuming the accused are guilty in all games, if they were warned for each game instance in specific, but this was their first time being warned, too. They don't know how severely hurt other people were by this until someone pointed it out. Often in Power, the best thing to do is consult other people if it's a complicated issue, especially if it's an issue that's already compromising ethics: You don't throw Poison to fix the Fish Tank; you replace the water.
I'm thinking about this from multiple lenses; we're all people, and while I am at no liberty to speak from the perspective of you or the accused, I'll speak personally. I came back to this community because Nabe politely tagged me (<3 Nabe) so I decided "Sure, I'll try hosting again." and Vaanrose (<3) asked me politely if I'd like to join his game. I said yes. Seeing this before the first game I even played back on here finished made me go "Are we really doing the drama thing again?" and quite honestly I've dealt with enough Godkills and games compromised. I'd rather not relive drama with a fresh coat of paint.
What's done is done. I bring this up for future situations.
If anything like this does ever arise again (or if any of ya'll want to chat about Mafia I guess; I love talking hosting), know that my PM Box and Discord are open for anyone who's willing to chat with an open mind. I'm always going to look for the solution that makes as many people as possible happy simply because
1) It's in my nature. Ya'll will have to just live with it.
2) It's literally a part of my career. (My Master's that I'm working on is entirely in Management. I'd like to think I know a thing or two. Reflective Listening is one of those, for a start)
Hope you have a good break; unease some of that stress. Meditation helps.
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Maven89
Smash Master
I didn’t really care about the cheating itself, it was the cheating mixed with Kon calling us idiots and morons when he was cheating. That’s when I went from “this is a no no” to “wow this guy”
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BarDulL
Town Vampire
Yeah, I think I will. I’ll be back soon. Will probably float in the background regardless. I do want to respond to this though:
Edit: wanted to elaborate on this a bit more. As a result of the aforementioned, it takes literal hours of jotting down notes and analyzing every single action, the times they take place, while putting it all in a presentable manner when investigating someone who is cheating; it is not easy or always safe to make a determination that someone is cheating unless there is an insane slip or extreme consistency that makes it super obvious. Aside from that, it’s wrong to cheat, and it effectively wastes everyone’s time (including both mine and the host, because I’m the one who has to write up the report) to do this. A no-cheat-whatsoever policy is the best way to address this situation. I am not handing out warnings to someone who caused me to waste 5 hours of my time in order to safely figure out whether they were cheating...sorry if I sound draconian about this but trust me when I say that no one else here would have wanted to go through the process I went through to figure this all out.
I didn’t throw poison in the water; I was removing two fish from a school, but also wanted the other living creatures in the tank to understand why I was doing it as well as why it was important for the ecosystem. The rest of the school got startled and upset, which I should have foreseen, but I think they also preferred to know the truth as well. I think they know things will grow better and more organically this way.
I can’t just be thinking about them either, I have to take into account everyone that plays here. I have to ensure that everyone who comes here is on an even playing field. This will promote the most growth and stability.
Maven89
even if he hadn’t tooted his own horn, you know they’d be thinking it lol. That’s the kind of behavior it promotes I guess.
As someone who is trying to identify cheating in mafia, you can only (mostly) provide a case that suggests a strong likelihood as opposed to objective fact. Sometimes, conclusions can’t be proven with any certainty, even if they are incredibly likely to have occurred. That’s why it’s scary even to hand down a conclusion after a single game. You can’t just warn someone not to do it on their first time, sometimes it’s just not that easy to catch. Sometimes they mask it well. And sometimes, you’re not even really looking because “why would anyone cheat in the first place?”, even if it’s happening in plain view.
Edit: wanted to elaborate on this a bit more. As a result of the aforementioned, it takes literal hours of jotting down notes and analyzing every single action, the times they take place, while putting it all in a presentable manner when investigating someone who is cheating; it is not easy or always safe to make a determination that someone is cheating unless there is an insane slip or extreme consistency that makes it super obvious. Aside from that, it’s wrong to cheat, and it effectively wastes everyone’s time (including both mine and the host, because I’m the one who has to write up the report) to do this. A no-cheat-whatsoever policy is the best way to address this situation. I am not handing out warnings to someone who caused me to waste 5 hours of my time in order to safely figure out whether they were cheating...sorry if I sound draconian about this but trust me when I say that no one else here would have wanted to go through the process I went through to figure this all out.
I didn’t throw poison in the water; I was removing two fish from a school, but also wanted the other living creatures in the tank to understand why I was doing it as well as why it was important for the ecosystem. The rest of the school got startled and upset, which I should have foreseen, but I think they also preferred to know the truth as well. I think they know things will grow better and more organically this way.
I can’t just be thinking about them either, I have to take into account everyone that plays here. I have to ensure that everyone who comes here is on an even playing field. This will promote the most growth and stability.
Maven89
even if he hadn’t tooted his own horn, you know they’d be thinking it lol. That’s the kind of behavior it promotes I guess.
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