As a weeaboo or something like that I can agree about somethings and others but really I don't feel like discussing what you guys are discussing. I just want to say that the one thing I can't even stand in animes are the freaking like "obnoxiously cute stupid sidekicks." That stupid little lion thing from bleach, dung beatle in bokurano, chopper in one piece, hell even Kyubi in Madoka but at least Kyubi tries to be a serious... whatever. It's just crazy how common they are and their only purpose is to be like "check how useless I am and how much I overreact!" Ryuk is one of the two biggest reasons I've never been able to like Death Note. Like seriously **** that character.
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Marshmellowman
Macman|marshy
swag on infinity
monster has a really ballin detective in it i think yull like. i remember talking to mashad about how a certain scene with him in it is probably the best scene out of anything ever
basically what im trying to say is that yu should stop reading/watching manga/anime after yu finish monster
no it isn't
Bear in mind I'm not saying pandering in general is inherent to anime. Like **** would I know I ain't no expert
I'm saying that regardless of its actual frequency in the medium, that specific form of pandering is inherent to anime. And it is. That characterization doesn't exist outside of anime, except in things that are desperately imitating it I guess, and I can't even think of examples of that. There's the off chance it's an archetype in japanese literature I guess given the inherent misogyny (and pervasiveness) of that type of character but who knows, ain't gonna assume no racist **** like that by default
#HBC | Acrostic
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Magical Negroes.
Marshy, it's funny that Monster is the only thing I haven't read from that author. I've literally stumbled upon Happy!, Pluto, 20th Century Boys, and Billy Bat, but I've never read Monster.marshy said:
If you don't mind, could you explain a bit more what you mean by "pandering."EvilEye said:
#HBC | Laundry
Grand Sage of Swag
Except Kyubey doesn't fit that definition at all. I'd quicker define him as the antagonist than the show's "obnoxiously cute stupid sidekick."
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Neither does Ryuk but whatever Salt2.
Marshmellowman
Macman|marshy
is billy bat any good? i remember loving 20th century boys and pluto as well. the latter was such an interesting take on astro boy
#HBC | Acrostic
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Actually that isn't an accurate link to the actual trope, which would actually be: non-human sidekick or talking animal. It might be possible that the reason why animal sidekicks are used is because they are in successful manga such as Bleach and when writers try to get submissions passed into Shonen, editors have an instilled belief that animal mascots are put of the success formula for mainstream anime therefore they might try to have writers add them in. However, in the instances you linked, the creatures present are used for exposition and unraveling the beginning sections of the plot that are unbelievable. I suppose authors figure it is easier to break in the supernatural by having a supernatural creature there to break the news. Also given the ambiguous nature of the creatures, it could potentially leave the author room into turning them into a good or bad force as needed later on in the story. If you have a human character, then there could potentially be less variability as humans are viewed to having ulterior motives from the get-go and there might be more commitment on the part of the author to demonstrate this with a human character than a mascot with a stitched on face.
#HBC | Acrostic
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Billy Bat has this on-going mystery element like the part in 20th century boys where they try to figure out who "friend" is iirc, but it gets unraveled very slowly for my taste and I stopped following it. I also never finished 20th century boys. I think I stopped reading after the first arc.
I assume you know what pandering means Acro so I'm not sure if I should be expanding upon or defining it for you. I'm gonna just do both at once to cover my bases
You know how a horror movie has a really screechy, sexy, 20s-to-early-30s-at-the-absolute-most female as the lead role a lot of the time? This was popularized by Jamie Lee Curtis's role as Laurie Strode in Halloween, and after it proved to popular it was imitated again and again until it became a shallow go-to stereotype movie execs (and hack writers) resort to
Classic example actually is the Silent Hill movie. One of the cool things about SH1 is how off the beaten path it is to have a male protagonist in a horror thing. Men being and acting scared can be subtle or it can be really out there, and either way it's a rare and unique ting and pretty unsettling. Also, motherly devotion is a common trope in horror stuff, but the fatherly equivalent is generally saved for high octane testosteronefests like the latest Bruce Willis movie or whatever. There's an assumption by media makers, I think, that people are stupid and need really exaggerated depictions of fear and etc to dig in and empathize with the characters. Because women are perceived as more helpless and screech and scream a lot (meaning the dumb stupidhead audience can understand that she's scared and they need to be scared!!!), this is the go-to, and so Harry was replaced in the film by just such a character. A blond, hot, late-20s-early-30s mother who pursues her daughter and screams, a lot.
Or the "mostly helpless damsel in distress that might do one or two things of actual value in a given story" in almost every action movie or comic book ever made.
Pandering to me is anytime you resort to a hollow shell of a character (or plot point, or idea, or theme, or whatever) that has no inherent value for the narrative, and you do so for the express purpose of appealing to either (1) Stupid people with generic tastes or more likely (2) An imaginary conception of (1) that doesn't really exist in such a pure form, because the job of executives in the entertainment industry is to thumb their nose real hard and try to figure out how best to manipulate the consumerist peons whose money they seek
Edit: More thoughts -- Naturally, some of the tired tropes that might be used for pandering are more tired than others. There's still some value in the grizzled antihero that still has a kernel of good buried DEEP INSIIIIIDE THE SOUUUUL just because of the flexibility they can provide a narrative in exploring themes and characterizations, plus it helps that antiheroes fade in and out of favor with the public and don't get too oversaturated (far as I know, anyway).
On the other hand some, like the screechy horror heroine, have been xeroxed over and over and over, and their inclusion in anything will either never or damn near never be an attempt to create an actual character in a narrative and just a cynical attempt to cash a fat check on the back of the presumed unthinking masses. Amane Misa and her ilk is another such character and another such trope
You know how a horror movie has a really screechy, sexy, 20s-to-early-30s-at-the-absolute-most female as the lead role a lot of the time? This was popularized by Jamie Lee Curtis's role as Laurie Strode in Halloween, and after it proved to popular it was imitated again and again until it became a shallow go-to stereotype movie execs (and hack writers) resort to
Classic example actually is the Silent Hill movie. One of the cool things about SH1 is how off the beaten path it is to have a male protagonist in a horror thing. Men being and acting scared can be subtle or it can be really out there, and either way it's a rare and unique ting and pretty unsettling. Also, motherly devotion is a common trope in horror stuff, but the fatherly equivalent is generally saved for high octane testosteronefests like the latest Bruce Willis movie or whatever. There's an assumption by media makers, I think, that people are stupid and need really exaggerated depictions of fear and etc to dig in and empathize with the characters. Because women are perceived as more helpless and screech and scream a lot (meaning the dumb stupidhead audience can understand that she's scared and they need to be scared!!!), this is the go-to, and so Harry was replaced in the film by just such a character. A blond, hot, late-20s-early-30s mother who pursues her daughter and screams, a lot.
Or the "mostly helpless damsel in distress that might do one or two things of actual value in a given story" in almost every action movie or comic book ever made.
Pandering to me is anytime you resort to a hollow shell of a character (or plot point, or idea, or theme, or whatever) that has no inherent value for the narrative, and you do so for the express purpose of appealing to either (1) Stupid people with generic tastes or more likely (2) An imaginary conception of (1) that doesn't really exist in such a pure form, because the job of executives in the entertainment industry is to thumb their nose real hard and try to figure out how best to manipulate the consumerist peons whose money they seek
Edit: More thoughts -- Naturally, some of the tired tropes that might be used for pandering are more tired than others. There's still some value in the grizzled antihero that still has a kernel of good buried DEEP INSIIIIIDE THE SOUUUUL just because of the flexibility they can provide a narrative in exploring themes and characterizations, plus it helps that antiheroes fade in and out of favor with the public and don't get too oversaturated (far as I know, anyway).
On the other hand some, like the screechy horror heroine, have been xeroxed over and over and over, and their inclusion in anything will either never or damn near never be an attempt to create an actual character in a narrative and just a cynical attempt to cash a fat check on the back of the presumed unthinking masses. Amane Misa and her ilk is another such character and another such trope
I've only watched a Let's Play of SH1, but if I had played it when I was younger, and had looked forward to the movie, this would be infuriating. It's like... Goku using the Kamehameha to heal people in DB Evolution. Which I still haven't watched.
I think that both of you missed what I was getting at. Kyubey totally takes the role of what I'm talking about and subverts it by actually being serious and important. I still hate it.
Ryuk is still exactly what I'm talking about even if he also serves as a neat little showing of how little a God cares about human life and suffering or whatever. His obsession with apples and interaction with Misa is what I'm talking about.
I'm not sure if acrostic agrees with me on this subject or not but the links are nice.
Edit: No I hate mascots.
Ryuk is still exactly what I'm talking about even if he also serves as a neat little showing of how little a God cares about human life and suffering or whatever. His obsession with apples and interaction with Misa is what I'm talking about.
I'm not sure if acrostic agrees with me on this subject or not but the links are nice.
Edit: No I hate mascots.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
So... you hate side characters?
Irrelevant:
#HBC | Acrostic
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This is the first time I've seen pandering being used in that context. Weird :/
Also I'm familiar with the points you raised in (1) and (2) as a super-consumerist approach to appeal to a specific demographic often leads to typecasting. Just to make sure that I'm sort of on the same page, basically if you take Shia LaBeouf and swap his acting in two movies, say Indiana Jones and Lawless you basically have the same character as he more or less plays the same role in every movie.
I don't really have a problem with the use of stock characters or stock themes as long as they have a clever or meaningful placement with respect to the progression of the plot aside from pure profit i.e. typecasting.
Also I'm familiar with the points you raised in (1) and (2) as a super-consumerist approach to appeal to a specific demographic often leads to typecasting. Just to make sure that I'm sort of on the same page, basically if you take Shia LaBeouf and swap his acting in two movies, say Indiana Jones and Lawless you basically have the same character as he more or less plays the same role in every movie.
Misa in Death Note (as far as I can recall) is integral to the plot due to her abilities. Her character is supposed to be shallow and she wasn't created to actually be a character, but a plot device or in a Kantian sense, merely a means to an end to progress the plot. As far as I remember, Death Note doesn't have a case of Misa betraying Light, even though Light puts precautions in place for possible betrayal before he comes to trust her. Misa isn't supposed to a developed or remotely polished character, she is blindly enamored with Light and exemplifies a flawed character who doesn't have any depth. In fact, she can arguably be considered a foil to Light aside from L, who plays as the "bimbo headed trusting lover" in comparison to Light who is this "calculating dispassionate mastermind."
You do have merit in saying that Misa isn't a real character, she isn't realistic by any means and I don't think the writer of the manga tried to add depth or some deeper meaning into her character. It has been awhile so I don't know where "warping" is occurring to accommodate Misa, from what I remember Misa never really had self-initiative or plans that she pushed in the series. I think that Misa is a stock character who very blatantly was used as plot fodder in order to possibly exemplify Light's degrading moral compass. The fact that Misa is helpless and provides her service without looking for anything in return shows the increasing extent that Light has "fallen" as he increasingly forces her to make sacrifices in order to push ahead with his plans.
You do have merit in saying that Misa isn't a real character, she isn't realistic by any means and I don't think the writer of the manga tried to add depth or some deeper meaning into her character. It has been awhile so I don't know where "warping" is occurring to accommodate Misa, from what I remember Misa never really had self-initiative or plans that she pushed in the series. I think that Misa is a stock character who very blatantly was used as plot fodder in order to possibly exemplify Light's degrading moral compass. The fact that Misa is helpless and provides her service without looking for anything in return shows the increasing extent that Light has "fallen" as he increasingly forces her to make sacrifices in order to push ahead with his plans.
I don't really have a problem with the use of stock characters or stock themes as long as they have a clever or meaningful placement with respect to the progression of the plot aside from pure profit i.e. typecasting.
Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
EE, that image is spectacular.
But now a Maritimer likes it. How do you respond to this?
But now a Maritimer likes it. How do you respond to this?
#HBC | Acrostic
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@Acro lost a huge post might come back to this later, but TLDR: I'm not talking about the shallowness of the character herself I'm talking about the shallowness of the writer and how she herself is characterized
which is "what if an adult was actually five ****ing years old and entangled by a power play for world governance by a misanthropic teenager"
Her personality is what it is for the purpose of panderin' and nothin' else. Your shia lebouf example is valid but not exactly what I mean here. In 75 years if the "Shia Lewhatever how do you spell it Persona" becomes an overused and shallowly implemented stereotype, then using it would be pandering. Shia's roles being almost indistinguishable however is not pandering, that is typecasting. Putting Shia in Indiana ****ing Jones (seriously what in the damn ****) in the first place, however, was the pandering in question. ...and putting him in most things, I guess, he was serviceable in Lawless but you get me. The producers even admitted to it funny enough (though they of course phrased it in a way that makes it sound far less stupid than it was, something about "bringing the character of Indy to younger fans"... or some ****). Basically they were forthright about "he's only in this movie because we don't trust young people to like a good character because he's too OLD and young people are *******". Live Free or Die Hard did the same thing with Justin Long's character, although I actually thought they did that pretty well given that the dichotomy was well-used to display the generational difference between the characters and made McClane more of a fish out of water than ever. Too bad the movie was so toothless, which is actually another less forgivable instance of pandering since they forced the content of the film to be more explosion-ridden and technophilic to appeal to young people and then chopped the violence down to nothing to secure a PG-13 so that all the lil babbies they were trying to appeal to could even see the movie.
(For those inevitably wondering about my opinion, I have no intention to see Die Hard 5 given that they are recycling THE EXACT SAME PANDERING TRICK by giving McClane another handsome 20something sidekick, making it "bigger and better" (aka more explosive and more geared to the ADD generation and worse), and even some more pandering by adding all this espionage bull**** to basically force the movie to be a Bourne movie instead of a Die Hard movie...... but now I"m rambling and way off my original point)
so yeah you see all the functions you mention about both (1) Misa's character motivations/fixation on Light/etc and (2) varying purposes in the plot...... NONE of them are served better by writing her as an overactive five year old that ate a bunch of candy. None. Not one. None at all.
Everything about her personality is incongruous to the tone of a show that with the exception of herself, somewhat-Near, and mostly-Mello, has well-drawn characters that I could see existing in the real world. Her personality doesn't serve her role in the work, at all. In fact the grating simpering idiocy of it drags the show's quality and maturity down significantly in every scene.
Amane Misa could very easily be reworked into an actual ****ing character with all the same motivations, roles in the plot, you name it, and some actual character depth. Or at the very least not portrayed in a manner that is quite frankly insulting to my ****ing intelligence. There's a difference between a character's role in a work's story or core conception as a person within the work's world and how they are actually characterized and portrayed within the writing/performance/etc. The former is fine, and that's what you're using to justify the latter. The latter is stupid and doesn't work, and there is no excuse for a major character to be so clearly designed from the ground up to pander to the people that like cutesy kawaii desu ne ^____^ characters.
She's airheaded, she loves Light/Kira unconditionally, she is singular in her fixation, she's a superstar celebrity everybody loves, she's shallow. All of that can work. The way the writer and the anime people chose to do that..... doesn't. It's awful.
which is "what if an adult was actually five ****ing years old and entangled by a power play for world governance by a misanthropic teenager"
Her personality is what it is for the purpose of panderin' and nothin' else. Your shia lebouf example is valid but not exactly what I mean here. In 75 years if the "Shia Lewhatever how do you spell it Persona" becomes an overused and shallowly implemented stereotype, then using it would be pandering. Shia's roles being almost indistinguishable however is not pandering, that is typecasting. Putting Shia in Indiana ****ing Jones (seriously what in the damn ****) in the first place, however, was the pandering in question. ...and putting him in most things, I guess, he was serviceable in Lawless but you get me. The producers even admitted to it funny enough (though they of course phrased it in a way that makes it sound far less stupid than it was, something about "bringing the character of Indy to younger fans"... or some ****). Basically they were forthright about "he's only in this movie because we don't trust young people to like a good character because he's too OLD and young people are *******". Live Free or Die Hard did the same thing with Justin Long's character, although I actually thought they did that pretty well given that the dichotomy was well-used to display the generational difference between the characters and made McClane more of a fish out of water than ever. Too bad the movie was so toothless, which is actually another less forgivable instance of pandering since they forced the content of the film to be more explosion-ridden and technophilic to appeal to young people and then chopped the violence down to nothing to secure a PG-13 so that all the lil babbies they were trying to appeal to could even see the movie.
(For those inevitably wondering about my opinion, I have no intention to see Die Hard 5 given that they are recycling THE EXACT SAME PANDERING TRICK by giving McClane another handsome 20something sidekick, making it "bigger and better" (aka more explosive and more geared to the ADD generation and worse), and even some more pandering by adding all this espionage bull**** to basically force the movie to be a Bourne movie instead of a Die Hard movie...... but now I"m rambling and way off my original point)
so yeah you see all the functions you mention about both (1) Misa's character motivations/fixation on Light/etc and (2) varying purposes in the plot...... NONE of them are served better by writing her as an overactive five year old that ate a bunch of candy. None. Not one. None at all.
Everything about her personality is incongruous to the tone of a show that with the exception of herself, somewhat-Near, and mostly-Mello, has well-drawn characters that I could see existing in the real world. Her personality doesn't serve her role in the work, at all. In fact the grating simpering idiocy of it drags the show's quality and maturity down significantly in every scene.
Amane Misa could very easily be reworked into an actual ****ing character with all the same motivations, roles in the plot, you name it, and some actual character depth. Or at the very least not portrayed in a manner that is quite frankly insulting to my ****ing intelligence. There's a difference between a character's role in a work's story or core conception as a person within the work's world and how they are actually characterized and portrayed within the writing/performance/etc. The former is fine, and that's what you're using to justify the latter. The latter is stupid and doesn't work, and there is no excuse for a major character to be so clearly designed from the ground up to pander to the people that like cutesy kawaii desu ne ^____^ characters.
She's airheaded, she loves Light/Kira unconditionally, she is singular in her fixation, she's a superstar celebrity everybody loves, she's shallow. All of that can work. The way the writer and the anime people chose to do that..... doesn't. It's awful.
lmao, try to TLDR and end up writing a new long post that is less structured and more rambly
classic ee
classic ee
More pandering thoughts:
The desperate attempt by the video game industry to slowly push every video game into being the same "cinematic action game" has destroyed not one, not two, not THREE, but FOUR of my favorite ****ing video game franchises
-Splinter Cell
-Hitman
-Condemned
-Mass Effect
god I could go into it but I would just want to punch my keyboard over and over again until I completely ruin my laptop and I really gotta study
ughgashdghagh
actually I may be too quick to write off Hitman: Absolution..... but if Splinter Cell: Conviction taught me anything, it's "don't trust 'updates' of niche franchises", "don't trust internet journalists reviewing said updates", "you can trust the core fanbase if enough of them are pissed off", and lastly "if a defender of the game smells like an apologist, it's because he is"
So I will write it off until I hear from a true Hitman fan that it is good.
a good half or so of the ME3 experience (including the oh so crucial final 20% of it or so), the vast majority of Condemned 2, and every single second of Splinter Cell: Conviction on the other hand were like someone ripped out my eyeballs and **** on my brain
god I wish teran were here to help me articulate all this pandering stuff/namesearchbait
The desperate attempt by the video game industry to slowly push every video game into being the same "cinematic action game" has destroyed not one, not two, not THREE, but FOUR of my favorite ****ing video game franchises
-Splinter Cell
-Hitman
-Condemned
-Mass Effect
god I could go into it but I would just want to punch my keyboard over and over again until I completely ruin my laptop and I really gotta study
ughgashdghagh
actually I may be too quick to write off Hitman: Absolution..... but if Splinter Cell: Conviction taught me anything, it's "don't trust 'updates' of niche franchises", "don't trust internet journalists reviewing said updates", "you can trust the core fanbase if enough of them are pissed off", and lastly "if a defender of the game smells like an apologist, it's because he is"
So I will write it off until I hear from a true Hitman fan that it is good.
a good half or so of the ME3 experience (including the oh so crucial final 20% of it or so), the vast majority of Condemned 2, and every single second of Splinter Cell: Conviction on the other hand were like someone ripped out my eyeballs and **** on my brain
god I wish teran were here to help me articulate all this pandering stuff/namesearchbait
BSL
B-B-B-BLAMM!!!
I ain't readin' that ****.
wow mfw exam extension right after I realize "jesus christ I spent way too much time teaching acro about pandering as applied to artistic mediums and the arts industry and not enough studying"
It can NOT be a coincidence that I taught Acrostic something new (and in the area of language no less) shortly before this windfall of good luck. Did I just....... hack the Matrix??
It can NOT be a coincidence that I taught Acrostic something new (and in the area of language no less) shortly before this windfall of good luck. Did I just....... hack the Matrix??
Holy **** there are people who actually defend Misa's character? Look man, the only defence is "I'm a weeaboo who loves anime komena sai oh let me obedient with my 7yo voice and giant ***s please let me obey you and have humble sex with your exalted self every day oh dignified master Basement Dweller sama", then sure, guess you can't complain about being pandered to.
But when that's literally all she exists as, anyone who actually has any appreciation of characterisation (especially when it's countered by the rest of the show's strong and well thought out characters), there starts to be a problem.
Sure, Misa's actions etc obviously were integral to the plot, and she could have even been dense and still a great character, but no, she is nothing. She doesn't even need to exist, I mean isn't that what you just said? Isn't that like, a serious ****ign problem? This character is supposed to be so hollow that she doesn't need to exist. Yeah, that's sort of the goddamn problem. Why is she there? We all know why she's there. KIMOCHI ONIICHAN OHHHH?
I mean Mello was a shota ho who had no real depth to him apart from... being a whorish shota who tantalisingly eats chocolate and... is suppsoedly smart and important.
Great, that's who you give us.
But when that's literally all she exists as, anyone who actually has any appreciation of characterisation (especially when it's countered by the rest of the show's strong and well thought out characters), there starts to be a problem.
Sure, Misa's actions etc obviously were integral to the plot, and she could have even been dense and still a great character, but no, she is nothing. She doesn't even need to exist, I mean isn't that what you just said? Isn't that like, a serious ****ign problem? This character is supposed to be so hollow that she doesn't need to exist. Yeah, that's sort of the goddamn problem. Why is she there? We all know why she's there. KIMOCHI ONIICHAN OHHHH?
I mean Mello was a shota ho who had no real depth to him apart from... being a whorish shota who tantalisingly eats chocolate and... is suppsoedly smart and important.
Great, that's who you give us.
Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
This is amusing as hell.
When was the last time Tery completed a game?
#HBC | Laundry
Grand Sage of Swag
R&R's needs a replacement. Please contact me if interested.
#HBC | Acrostic
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Last game I remember Tery playing in was Megaman mafia. If I'm not mistaken, he's a biochem major and he's got them midterms coming up. Lots of memorizing.
#HBC | Acrostic
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Also I know this is a horrible time to say this, but is there a big different between Misa in the manga and Misa in the anime, because I've never watched the anime. I'm strictly going off the manga from a couple of years ago. Also I can't continue this conversation in good conscience without actually watching Death Note and that's something that is frankly way way way way way out of my to do list.
IgnantNoob
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So much homo in this thread.
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#HBC | Red Ryu
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Evil Eye knows Furries > Weeaboos.
Just try and find something you like and remember what is good right now, forget the bad and think about the good for now. Improvement and finding good relationships will happen.
It's what I tell myself at the very least, and I think the same can work for you.
Like think of Fire Emblem 3DS, I wants it, soooooooo much.
I feel your pain on this, no luck on my end either.D-Games, I'm feeling down right now.
I've been searching for close to a year now for someone suitable to have a long-term relationship with, with ultimately little success.
I saw someone today that looked such a striking amount like my last ex that it spun me into a mood of regret and loneliness that I'm currently weathering.
I've the clarity of mind to realize that breaking off the last relationship was the right decision for me to make due to the toxic levels of stress, but there's still a crushing isolation to deal with.
I'm not really sure what I'm looking for from you guys right now other than some support, I suppose. I'm reaching out to my social circles to pull myself through this right now.
Just try and find something you like and remember what is good right now, forget the bad and think about the good for now. Improvement and finding good relationships will happen.
It's what I tell myself at the very least, and I think the same can work for you.
Like think of Fire Emblem 3DS, I wants it, soooooooo much.
Sephiroths Masamune
Shocodoro Blagshidect
#HBC | Acrostic
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This post does not exist.
Shun Goku Satsu Rake
Oriwa Rake. Kaizo ko ni oriwa naru
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Whatever the popular opinion is, I disagree
Raziek
Charging Limit All Day
Yeah that's about right based on where you are.
vanderzant
Smash Journeyman
You're in for a treat JTB. They're probably two of my three favourite endings .
.
#HBC | Acrostic
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Looking for television/movie recommendations. Favorite television series is The Wire. I saw the first season of Breaking Bad and not really looking forward to watching the rest of the series. For movies I've recently watched Goodfellas and The Godfather and enjoyed both. Also liked Indie Game and Bill Cunningham which were both commentaries. Considering to watch First/One Page and Man on the Wire, but I will still have some leftover $ on this iTunes gift card and wondered if you guys had any recommendations.
Marshmellowman
Macman|marshy
if yu liked goodfellas and godfather yud probly enjoy the departed. its another crime thriller by scorsese. i hear the film its based on is good as well (internal affairs) tho i cant personally attest to that
i also think people who enjoyed goodfellas and godfather would like the usual suspects too
man on wire is beautiful. really suggest watching that
i also think people who enjoyed goodfellas and godfather would like the usual suspects too
man on wire is beautiful. really suggest watching that