DeDeDe is Third on the Tier List! Discuss here!

[Wölf]

I've seen this type of thread on a few other character forums.

I think it would be interesting to get everyone's thoughts on King D's placement as the 3rd best character in the game, behind only the God-Tier-Worthy Metaknight and Snake, who really is too sexy for his box. As a DDD lover, I feel that this was the best possible thing we could have asked for.

You say, "Tiers mean nothing! It's all in the player!" and to that I say, just look at the situation. DDD is already the most intimidating character in Brawl and the added bonus of being the Official Third Best character. This provides intimidation for anyone under him in the list, and makes Snake and Metaknight tremble in their boots at the thought of losing their spot on the list to a giant, jolly, penguin who will kick you in the rump. Who can argue with 300 pounds of feathery, floatable, fury? No one, that's who.


Dedede is the best character in terms of personality, lovability, and crunkability. Now, he's in the top three characters behind only God and Mr. Universe himself. Who could ask for better?


Discuss.

 

[CO18]

I think DDD should be 4th/5th. I believe Falco is the 3rd best because falco really only has 2 bad matchups and they aren't even extremely bad.
Where as Dedede has several so I believe he should be either 4th or 5th behind both Falco and gaw.

Just my opinion.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Dedede aint no penguin man, my kind exiled him (lion king 2 style, MUFASA!!) , he's an eagle now.

 

[Puddin]

Tier list is always changing, nothing is official don't be surprised if he is knocked back down a bit soon.

I hate that you continue to refer to intimidation as some kind of Advanced Technique though =\

 

[Samus-T]

tires don exits homie

 

[Tyser]

Marth, Falco and G&W > Dedede IMHO.

 

[Vayseth]

I think D3 at 3rd is a good place for him. However, it's kind of hard to place people in exact place holdings. I would say he's def top tier for sure, but I wouldn't disagree with the idea of him being 3rd overall. Mainly because he doesn't have MANY bad match ups and he has some of the most advantageous match ups in the game. His COMPLETE **** match ups make up for some of his "meh" ones.

 

[Hype]

the gap between snake, mk and everyone else is so big that i think top tier will be exclusive to them.

I agree with what CO18 said. We have always known Dedede to be really stage and match up dependent. He has some horrible matchups, and some horrible stages thats why most dedede mains use a second.

 

[Gates]

I didn't post initially because I thought I'd be chastised but I agree with people who think Dedede is too high. Game & Watch and Falco are definitely better than him and ROB is slightly better too (Not sure about Marth though). I can see Dedede moving down in future tier lists, but he won't drop out of the top 10 anytime soon and I doubt he'll ever drop out of the top 15.

 

[Buuman]

I feel that GW will outplace dedede very soon

 

[DMG]

I think he's around 4th/5th. G&W is better definitely, and Falco has a good shot at moving past Dedede too, but I'm pretty sure Marth/ROB/the rest won't pass him. Maybe he will if they think Dedede's bad matchups hinder him enough to drop a few spots or something.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

you guys are all nuts. in a game that, in my opinion, grabs rule (beats every move in the game) why doesnt the character with the best grab range, priority and game rule?


IMO future best character in the game. not trying to make any arguments, just wait it out, and if im right, im awesome.

 

[Vayseth]

I don't know about top in the game, since he basically only has grabs and mix ups into and out of grabs and the uncanny ability to NEVER ****ING DIE, but if he had a little less lag on his moves (especially with the waddles and smashes) he would definitely be as broke if not more broke than metaknight. I think the only thing separating him from DAYMN GOOD and SHYIT BROKE is the amount of lag he has on his waddles (great projectile otherwise) and his smashes (mostly down and up smash). If his up smash and down smash were about the speed of his tilts... I don't even want to think of the **** that would occur...

 

[Wölf]

Tier list is always changing, nothing is official don't be surprised if he is knocked back down a bit soon.

I hate that you continue to refer to intimidation as some kind of Advanced Technique though =\

It was my sad attempt at sarcasm on the Internet.

Anyway, I like what you guys are saying. I will even admit in all seriousness that I expected D3 to be 4th or 5th; personally I *always* have trouble with Falco and I sometimes have situational problems with G&W. Also, stages do play a huge role in DDD's abilities. I believe wholeheartedly that the 4 main Neutral stages (Smashville, FD, BF, and Yoshi's Island) give DDD a light natural advantage over the other characters and especially to the CGable chars because the flat simplicity plays directly into DDD's aerial, straightforward play style. Other stages like Delfino and Halberd have a positive effect on D3 as well because they allow him to float directly under the stage at times and pummel the opposition on the platforms above.

@Seibrick, I think that grabs are essential, but if a character has only grab then he's very limited in playability. If D3's grab was his only strong attack, he'd be much, much lower on the Tier list. It's the reason why some characters who were originally thought to be higher tier (Lucas, I believe) aren't so high anymore. Lucas has a few broken moves, but people learned easily to adapt to them. I think if anyone ever develops a 100% strategy to not get grabbed by DDD, he'll plummet in the tier list.

Just my two cents.

 

[Sensei Seibrik]

Im not saying his grabs are easy to get once the opponent adapts to them, however if the player playing ddd is just as good at adapting back, its a different story.


And im not talking about ease to do something, or especially ability to SPAM just one thing -coughcoughtornadocoughcough- but im talkin about at the meta game, how big things like his grabs will play in the grand scheme of things, in ADDITION to his other amazing approaches that only aid to getting a grab.

As for people watching my vids and thinking all i do is grab, or all i ATTEMPT to do is grab, this is usually recorded vids AFTER i have played with that person for a bit. I only spam grabs that much after i've played using all his moves/styles and have seen how opponents react to things, force them to be aware of ddd's wall, and then punish all their mistakes from then out with grabs at anything under kill %.

Why f-tilt someone to punish wen u can grab, d-throw, THEN ftilt about 90% of the time/cast. Its a special case with ddd where grabbing is almost always a better form of punishing than doing an attack, unless its a kill move AT kill %. (sometimes grabs can also better ensure getting that kill as well.)

not sure how well wat i just said plays into the "ddd should be best" discussion, but its just somethin i've been thinkin about.

 

[neon..?]

he's exacty where i thought he would be.

 

[Wölf]

Why f-tilt someone to punish wen u can grab, d-throw, THEN ftilt about 90% of the time/cast. Its a special case with ddd where grabbing is almost always a better form of punishing than doing an attack, unless its a kill move AT kill %. (sometimes grabs can also better ensure getting that kill as well.)

I don't disagree with you at all. But what I'm saying is, if anything ever is found that makes it so DDD can't use the Chaingrab, he'll plummet. I wasn't arguing DDD's grab-throw-tilt effectiveness, I was just saying that it's what sets him apart from the rest of the cast.

 

[DEV64]

i think thats a little high for him since imo falco and g&m are better and have better match ups so i think he should be D3,G&M,falco,snake,and the godley MK.lol

 

[e__]

I think DDD should be 4th/5th. I believe Falco is the 3rd best because falco really only has 2 bad matchups and they aren't even extremely bad.
Where as Dedede has several so I believe he should be either 4th or 5th behind both Falco and gaw.

Just my opinion.

Actually Falco has at least 4.

Meanwhile Marth has only 3, (Snake, Meta, and Rob), and they're only minor disadvantages at best. Plus, Marth > Falco in the head to head.

[/Marth Bias]

I can understand DDD doing so well, I think that partially has to do with M2K second/maining him. Not to mention his chaingrab annoys the **** out of me.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Marth, Falco and G&W > Dedede IMHO.

This.

10badmatchupzards

 

[Wölf]

Hmm could someone please point me or link me to the official matchup thread, or at least a thread where all of the matchups, good or bad, are agreed upon?

I've never seen it, would be nice to look it

 

[e__]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=157979

I still can't find the melee one, though

 

[Mew2King]

falco is the true 3rd best, DDD should be 4th.

my tier list was MK/Snake Falco DDD GW for top 5

 

[Wölf]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=157979

I still can't find the melee one, though

Oh I've seen that before. I didn't think it was updated regularly, and I don't think it looks very accurate. It shows DDD as having 13 or so bad matchups, which seems like it would correspond to a lower tier position. ZSS has 9 bad matchups and she's like Mid-Low.

 

[Vayseth]

I think it's less a point that D3 is 3rd and more of the point that he is top 5 in the game. If he's in the top tier, who cares? XD

 

[e__]

falco is the true 3rd best, DDD should be 4th.

my tier list was MK/Snake Falco DDD GW for top 5

Falco? I must say he's the character that surprised me the most with his tier position; I was actually expecting him and Marth to be switched in position. Could you explain this a little?

Oh I've seen that before. I didn't think it was updated regularly

I don't know how accurate it is exactly, as I main Marth and don't really follow the match ups that much, but it was updated on the 26th of August, so it is fairly recent.

 

[Vayseth]

M2K has long been out spoken about Falco being one of the best in the game, long before players like SK92 started showing how to dominate with him. Falco's good, but I don't know if he's as good as everyone is making him out to be... Honestly tho, I've played him quite a bit and seen matches, but I don't feel he's in the same tier as the others (Meta, Snake, D3, G+W, ROB). I would make him 6th behind those.

 

[Shy Guy 86]

falco is the true 3rd best, DDD should be 4th.

my tier list was MK/Snake Falco DDD GW for top 5

QFT

I think that R.O.B. should be after G&W and then Marth for 7th, It might a bit of my hate for brawl marth(His movements aren't good) and I can't get the tip right in brawl(though I could in melee) and plus, Marth's tourney results and dropping, while Falco is 4th best(tied with DDD)

 

[TKD]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=157979

I still can't find the melee one, though

Outdated =)

 

[Wölf]

About Falco... I think a reason that he could be considered higher than DDD and in the top tier is because he has advantages over some of the Top Tier characters. I know he has an advantage over DDD, and I'm pretty sure he's got a decent advantage over Snake and ROB too.

 

[BlackWaive]

Although Dedede lacks in the matchup department, he's relatively easy to use. This is probably why Dedede is so popular, compared to technical characters like Falco and Olimar.

 

[Vayseth]

I'm not so sure about him. Falco is the most dangerous character in the game from 0-50%, but after 50%, and as the round approaches high percents, Falco has a REALLY hard time killing, since his best kill moves are slow and easy to see coming. He has up smash, down smash, and bair which are all fast enough, but they don't seem to be all that powerful after they have been used a couple times. You really have to save one of them for killing ONLY.

I refuse to believe that Olimar is a technical character tho =P He's the king of c-stick spam, and yes, even at higher playing levels. (former oli main, still in doubles XD)

 

[blaaa]

d3 is better than snake

 

[Hype]

mk and snake are top 2 there no doubt about that, Have you seen the tourney results noone even comes close to them. noone is overtaking them anytime soon, not even dedede.

 

[BOP (Bird of Prey)]

G&W and Falco definitely deserve respect, but I think D3 has a well-deserved spot in third. His battle style makes it so he has some of the most amazing matchups ever.

That being said, many are pointing to his bad matchups as to why he should go down in the listings. He might, but it might not be for those reasons. Think about it. A good D3 can put up a fight and occasionally win his bad matchups, which means that the bad matchups aren't exactly like a meta vs. ganon. He can definitely do something and AT LEAST be able to take a stock (or get close to one) before losing.

Also, in tournaments, there are more D3's being played than G&W's, which increases a D3's chance to win a tournament and therefore increase his ratings. It's actually being questioned in the G&W threads as to why so few G&W's are playing.

I'm not smashing G&W; I actually second him.

Anyways, you all have good points as to why dedede shouldn't be third; however, a truly skilled dedede can overcome some bad char/stage matchups ftw. I honestly think Dedede sits where he land that amazing up-B, and that just turns out to be third in the tier list.

 

[Gates]

For those knocking IvanEva's matchup chart, I think you're jumping to conclusions a little quickly. I agree that he needs to update it more than once every 20 days (at least when the game is still this new). At the same time though, I still think the list is mostly accurate considering what he's looking at in terms of a matchup chart. The one he has listed for us is this which hasn't been updated in 4 months but we still haven't created a thread of a similar caliber (perhaps someone should create one?). I think he may also be using data from the chaingrab thread since most of the matchups that are listed as bad right now are characters who can't be CG'd. I realize that we have seperate threads of specific matchups, but at the same time it is very troublesome to have to comb through them for decent results, especially when he end up just simplifying them down to the bare "good/neutral/bad".

 

[Buuman]

I'm calling it. Dedede is going to be in the upper tier, not the top.

 

[truendymion]

Why do people think Falco is good? I don't get it... DDD can beat him up pretty bad.

 

[M@v]

Why do people think Falco is good? I don't get it... DDD can beat him up pretty bad.

Falco does fairly well against the whole cast. Plus he has an amazing chaingrab, second only to DDDs. He has a ton of AT's as well

-chaingrab
-boost combo
-boost smash
-laser lock
-the fact he can combo his dair meteor smash out of his cg if timed right(seriously, this WRECKS people bad)