Death Note Mafia - Game Thread - Ovah

[#HBC | Mac]

ebwop:
@ Ronike would you like to go first?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

yea the gargy push is pretty awful imo, kinda annoyed i just read a bunch of posts on that ****. though that ***** shud answer w/e the **** question it is ppl want him to answer

@everyone you guys realize Kuz's push is based off gut right? Kuz's initial reason was that Gargs gave off the impression that he knows gorf is scum cuz he was confident. Can everyone else explain what their reasons are for voting him?

also someone said it was scummy that Gargs FOSed on D1...? that **** doesn't even make sense. dude clearly fosed because he was already voting someone and wanted to show that he thinks gorf is scummy.

not that i mean to defend garg hardbody but.. cmon yall christ

It's off gut? Have you actually been reading his quote chain posts?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

idk what you're asking Ruy

@ Ronike i'm prolly gonna post about claiming outside-thread comms in the next few hrs... would like to go first?

Did you read why I voted both players? You're entirely leaving out why I voted both.

Can you show me why Gorf is more deserving over Garg?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

It's off gut? Have you actually been reading his quote chain posts?

uh yea i'm pretty sure i did at least. since clearly you disagree, can you summarize what you think his push is? also feel free to throw in why you think he's scummy

i agree with the homie batsnacks here:

The only scummy thing garg has done is not respond to you.

 

[Ronike]

I was the one who said that Garg was somewhat scummy for FOSing in a game where we lynch on plurality at the end of a time limit, rather than majority. This is why:

Let's play a game, my friend. Flip a coin. Heads, you tell me, "Garg, I am terrible at mafia and am reaching ridiculously hard to paint a player in a negative light who doesn't deserve to be. I want to apologize for making so many stupidass comments that shouldn't be listened to by anyone. I'm sorry."

Tails? You say, "I'm scum."

I don't buy these quotes and I'm depressed and shocked that no one else in the thread challenged you on them because they're terrible. So, are you really this atrocious at mafia, Gorf?

FOS: Gorf

At this point his vote was on Gamer. I was meh on Gamer's wagon, and even though Garg was the one who started the wagon, this was his reason:

And which route is that and why? Also, are Mac and Ronike town for asking those things? Also, curious that you liked my above post.

I think you're scum trying to play to the audience while seeming agreeable on a surface level without actually providing opinions yourself. You match that profile.

##The Real Gamer

Now does that sound like its anywhere near as sure of itself as the first post? Garg's two face post seems very sure of itself that Gorf is mafia. And the fact that he just FOS'd Gorf when he felt that strongly, but voted TRG off of the second post seems really weird to me.

Worth noting, a large part of why I'm voting Garg is that he hasnt answered kuz's question and is being generally uncooperative. If he just answered the question, I'd prolly just get off of him and keep an eye on him. So if you want me to move my vote Garg...

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

My vote is still on Aoi if yall want to get a wagon going... just sayin

We seem to be conflicted and not understand the differences with each other.

Though fortunately this has change my view of you for the better.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

ugh ruy you're gonna make me start quoting a bunch of ****

 

[th3kuzinator]

come on mac read my posts mannnn

 

[th3kuzinator]

not completely caught up yet but Kuz while you might be right about gargy, your actual push is pretty awful.

also the way Red Ruy hopped on the TRG and gargy bandwagons is gross and consider myself voting him in spirit

you seem to think i'm right so how is my push only on gut?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

##Garg

I'd go back to real gamer if given the chance though.

I don't like how he didn't want to taker a stance on claiming and said, "I'll do what town wants"

I don't like how Garg handled Gorf but I think he has a point on gamer from that front.

word yes I did read right

ruy, you hopping on that wagon was awful. waht don't you like about the way Garg handled gorf? this is not a reason. and that coming from hopping on the TRG wagon without a strong reason (esp after TRGs response to the pressure) made this stand out

 

[#HBC | Mac]

ebwop for last sentence: and seeing Ruy hop on the Garg wagon right after he got on the TRG wagon without a strong reason (esp after TRGs response to the pressure) made those posts i quoted look even worse

 

[Ronike]

ebwop:
@ Ronike would you like to go first?

I'm coming down with a migraine, so this is prolly not gonna be as good of a post as it should be, but here goes

So if you haven't figured it out, yeah, I have access to an outside communication method. Said method is an anonymous chat room, in which there are 7 members, but we use character names as opposed to usernames. So not only do we not have confirmation of each others alignments, unlike Masons, but we also have very little idea as to who we are talking to. This is the reason why I mentioned earlier that KyryK could be in a three person discussion thingy, but likely wouldn't know who his partners were. I know my group very quickly decided that we shouldn't reveal names or roles, for fear of a traitor amongst us.

That all being said, having some idea of who was in a group and who isn't gives some small form of solidarity. Yes, we can't entirely trust everyone in the group, but we can likely trust most of the people in the group. Plus, this allows for crossreferencing scumslips here vs. what someone may say in the chat room.

That being said, and this should go without mentioning but ima do so anyways, if you think this is a good idea and want to go for it, for the love of god don't say who you are in chat, nor claim your actual role in any way, shape, or form. That gives scum too much info, but just saying yeah, I have access to outside communication, really doesn't give much away.

 

[th3kuzinator]

idk what you're asking Ruy

@ Ronike i'm prolly gonna post about claiming outside-thread comms in the next few hrs... would like to go first?

w

@ Xivii looks like you missed by vote on gorf

@ th3kuzinator fwiw i did get a bit of the same vibe you got but i recognize that it's primarily gut and weak at that. Garg's points against gorf were much more compelling and gorf is easily more deserving of a wagon.

word. lynch garg wifom doc between us. lynch gorf.

or vice versa, but ill be on this wagon and you'll be on that one. if we play it that way one of em will get lynched and it will force other people to take stances on the wagon which is super nice

see yall tomorrow

 

[#HBC | Mac]

I'm coming down with a migraine, so this is prolly not gonna be as good of a post as it should be, but here goes

So if you haven't figured it out, yeah, I have access to an outside communication method. Said method is an anonymous chat room, in which there are 7 members, but we use character names as opposed to usernames. So not only do we not have confirmation of each others alignments, unlike Masons, but we also have very little idea as to who we are talking to. This is the reason why I mentioned earlier that KyryK could be in a three person discussion thingy, but likely wouldn't know who his partners were. I know my group very quickly decided that we shouldn't reveal names or roles, for fear of a traitor amongst us.

That all being said, having some idea of who was in a group and who isn't gives some small form of solidarity. Yes, we can't entirely trust everyone in the group, but we can likely trust most of the people in the group. Plus, this allows for crossreferencing scumslips here vs. what someone may say in the chat room.

That being said, and this should go without mentioning but ima do so anyways, if you think this is a good idea and want to go for it, for the love of god don't say who you are in chat, nor claim your actual role in any way, shape, or form. That gives scum too much info, but just saying yeah, I have access to outside communication, really doesn't give much away.

i prolly wouldn't have mentioned anything about how many ppl are in the room but yea ^ this

have a bit more to expand on this, but first i gotta finish responding to **** kuz and ruy is askin me abotu

 

[#HBC | Mac]

if you read gargs #143 his point is that Gorf is going out of his way to paint batsnacks in a bad light. gorfs reasons aren't very strong and in some cases disingenuous (when he talks about real gamer being the only one to advocate claims). This combined with the fact that for me at least, I don't see how gorf (or anyone in that category of player that i consider relatively good) could see bats as scum. Felt like he was trying to take advantage of thread ganging up on batsnacks.

Garg's point here seemed clear and he further establishes his point here:

I quoted those for a reason. I thought it'd be obvious how hard Gorf was bull****ting. This is what he said:

These are both awful. Does anyone in this game actually think bats is scum? No, his play was weird at first but town got used to it after adjusting to his playstyle. The reasoning Gorf presented in the first quote looks nice on a surface level, but ignores thinking into what bats was actually doing. The second quote is just disgusting because making a connection between the two off something so weak is farfetched to the point that I doubt he genuinely believes in what he's saying.

kuz's reasoning for voting Garg:

well, im not 1000% gorf is scum, but i know garg is.

his phrasing on his attack on gorf activated that specific scumdar tell that is pretty much never wrong. its not that he's reaching, which he kinda is, but its the way he phrased it. he's either

a.) scum trying to appear confident and solid on his push or
b.) scum trying to appear confident and solid on his push because he knows gorf is scum and, likely, gorf said to bus early RVS

this to me comes off as pretty clearly gut. Kuz is saying based off of gargy's wording it seems like he knows gorf is scum and wants to project confidence in his read. While i got a similar vibe, we could be attributing mal-intent to Gargs just because it seems like he had a legitimate point against Gorf and he feels like pushing it strongly. garg doesn't really do anything scummy except apparently come off too strong.. thats a pretty gutty reason to vote for him. it's simpler to just assume that gargy is being genuine in his disgust for gorf

Pretty much a scum slip. What's wrong with thinking bats is scum? In fact, you don't even just say you agree that he's town or give reasons but instead FAULT GORF for thinking these things (likely, because you know bats is town)
What is he actually doing?

Reaching, but largely irrelevant.

kuz's post further discussing why he sees Garg as scum is just terrible. The red is not at all a scum slip.. i dont even get what he's saying there. i feel like anyone who's been paying attn could come to the conflusion that bats is leaning town. plus gargy himself basically implies that he thinks bats is town and that everyone else should if they're paying attn. A sentiment that I (and I'm sure Kuz agrees with, despite him saying he doesn't here) The other two lines of his post don't explain why gargs is scum. this is the last post i read b4 I posted that kuz's push was awful

and then from then on everyone else froths at the mouth saying GAWD GARGY WHY WONT YOU ANSWER THE QUESTION?!? SO SCUMMY!!

which just annoyed me more.



anyways, I could TOTALLY see gorf orchestrating a bus with gargs at the beginning which is why the viby notion that garg is confident in the Gorf read does have merit to me. either way, both gorf and gargs would be good wagons to check that possibility. but Garg's points against gorf were legitimate AND more concrete than this viby notion of a bus / gargs over confidence. That is why Gorf seems like clearly a much better wagon

**** i spent too much time on this ****. even more annoying considering that it's not like i think garg is town or kuz is scummy for this push. Though ****** like AOI hopping on this wagon does seem gross considering how weak their reasons for jumping on the wagon is

 

[#HBC | Mac]

@#HBC | Gorf current thoughts on Ruy, Gargs, Batsnacks and Kuz?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

@ #HBC | Red Ryu , why didn't you answer my question asking you to explain what you think Kuz's reasoning was? can you do that now?

WasI wrong in my assessment of why you voted gargs? can you clarify what your reasoning was?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

@ th3kuzinator you realize your initial reason for gargs scum doesn't make sense if Gorf ain't scum too, so i don't get why you're pushing gargy over gorf? unless your reasoning has since evolved from the **** i mentioned in my previous post

 

[#HBC | Mac]

still have yet to hear from these guys, where y'all at?

@DJCrinkleCut
@TheTemplar
@adumbrodeus (tho prolly a good thing cuz he would derailed my plan to get info about claims worse than batsnacks did)

 

[Holder of the Heel]

We're coming clean about outside-communication groups? Welp.

I'm in one, and I suspect nearly every foe to the mafia is in one, if not all. Hence my apprehensions towards Bats confusion about them and how he regarded them as masons and as power roles to be protected.

FYI @Kira, Mihael Keehl, Rod Ross, and Jack Neylon (most likely has eyes) are probably the mafia members you need to be writing down in that notebook of yours.

 

[th3kuzinator]

His refusal to answer the question is not just WOW HES SCUMMY CUZ HES NOT ANSWERING A QUESTION. I know its easy to see it like that, trust me, but its not. The reason I care so much is because I know he doesn't have an answer. I've gone back, read the interaction, noted every possible way someone could have interpreted that interaction, and still can't see how he came to that conclusion. I ask him to clarify to see what he can come up with, he stall for half a day.

Garg only quoted post from Gord that justify his FoS and now vote.

Post 1:

dood kuz is ACTUALLY playing

what do people think of bat harpin on the people who are looking for peoples opinions on early claiming... while CONVENIENTLY AVOIDING real gamers approval of the claim game?

-obligatory agreeing with the real gamer route-

kuz whats your take on the slamma jamma haters?

He says that this post is terrible because Gorf should obviously know that Bat is townie and thus fault Gorf for it. Should Gorf be faulted for having a scum read on bat? **** no. It's a read. He didn't even make that strong of a stance on the third page of this thread. It's clear Garg is putting too much faith in his Bat read from a neutral stance, as a means to attack Gorf. You must see how that is scummy.

Then, he says "The reasoning Gorf presented in the first quote looks nice on a surface level, but ignores thinking into what bats was actually doing."

I'll tell you what Bat was actually doing: playing by the book and telling Ronike who agreed with YOUR idea Mac that they were scummy for wanting to reveal if they were masoned. Now, Gorf's point is that Bat included everyone but avoiding Real Gamer, a fair point if you wanna look at it from that POV.

Garg then assumes thats an incredibly reaching scum read (which is clearly wasn't) and made his original FoS. He then says Gorf should realize Bat is town and he's intentionally neglecting to see the towny intent in bat via bat not including Ronike in his list of suspects for agreeing to claim masons. What was this towny intent? I STILL DON'T KNOW AND GARG HAS NO EXPLAINED IT. BECAUSE IT DOESN'T EXIST I'm stil waiting.

Does that make sense?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

wrt gargy not talking about bats townie intent: just realize that you and I both (and probably many other townies) independently came to the conclusion that bats town, and we have our reasons for it. I'm not gonna answer the q for gargy tho, but idk it feels like bats' townie intent seems pretty clear. i guess it would look bad if gargy could articulate a bit of why batstown, but i just dont see that to be the case.

you're missing another post by gorf that gargy quoted which to me is even worse. it has actual disingenuous **** in it in order to seemingly paint bats in a negative light. I think this is easily a solid point and gorf has since admitted that he had skimming johns.

you are right in that you can't **** on someone for having a bad read. but I personally think that gorftown would have easily seen batstown. i'm not arguing this point kuz, but just saying i felt the same way gargs did

anyway i ain't gonna keep defending gargs but i just wanted to explain why i thought the wagon was especially crappy since you and ruy asked. like i said it bugged me especially since i felt like the ppl joining you on the wagon didn't have any good reasons for it

 

[The Real Gamer]

Damn didn't even realize it's almost 12... Almost never up past 12 on a school night.

@KyryK what's your take on Gorf vs Gargy?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i guess it would look bad if gargy could articulate a bit of why batstown, but i just dont see that to be the case.

ebwop

it would look bad if gargy couldn't articulate why he thinks batstown, but i just doubt that to be the case.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

uh yea i'm pretty sure i did at least. since clearly you disagree, can you summarize what you think his push is? also feel free to throw in why you think he's scummy

i agree with the homie batsnacks here:

word yes I did read right

ruy, you hopping on that wagon was awful. waht don't you like about the way Garg handled gorf? this is not a reason. and that coming from hopping on the TRG wagon without a strong reason (esp after TRGs response to the pressure) made this stand out

ebwop for last sentence: and seeing Ruy hop on the Garg wagon right after he got on the TRG wagon without a strong reason (esp after TRGs response to the pressure) made those posts i quoted look even worse

@ #HBC | Red Ryu , why didn't you answer my question asking you to explain what you think Kuz's reasoning was? can you do that now?

WasI wrong in my assessment of why you voted gargs? can you clarify what your reasoning was?

At work right now.

Can dig into this abd the three quotes when I'm done in an hour.

 

[Alakaslam]

Well here I am, wondering what to comment on.

Whatever, I will speak more later.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

At work right now.

Can dig into this abd the three quotes when I'm done in an hour.

ah k no rush

 

[#HBC | Mac]

@ batsnacks @TheTemplar @ Alakaslam you've played with @Damdred before right? how would you describe his play?

 

[Alakaslam]

@ batsnacks @TheTemplar @ Alakaslam you've played with @Damdred before right? how would you describe his play?

I usually don't see that he particularly stands out. His reads are not bad enough to be noticeable, but neither are they so good that you notice him for that.

 

[Alakaslam]

I guess I mean I just have difficulty reading him, myself.

 

[Gargaglione]

Holy ****ing **** guys.

Look at batsnack's early game play. He went ape**** over Mac/Ronike pushing forth the idea of claiming if you're able to speak outside of the thread. As it continues, he starts calling them scummy because he assumes that "speaking outside of the thread" equates to masonry.

This is CLEARLY someone new to our woods of the internet not understanding the mechanics of this game. Guess the **** what? I have access to a neighborhood-type chat outside of this game and Mac being the first made me realize that there's probably multiple ones.

I'm pretty damn sure at least 1 scum or several have knowledge of these neighborhoods. It'd be too easy if Zenny just put a bunch of townies in them and the scum didn't know jack**** about them; I think from a game design perspective it's better to put mole(s) in them. Therefore, batsnack's confusion over outside communication makes him unlikely to be scum and more just confused about what the **** is going on with that. It's obviously a theme of this game and it's silly that people are playing dumb about it.

I thought this was obvious. I thought batsnack was obviously Town making weird assumptions due to being misplaced in this meta. The fact that Gorf came in here trying to push the OPPOSITE idea reeked of bull**** to me, ESPECIALLY when he tried to link batsnack to Real Gamer. Like I can't believe Gorf came in here trying to **** on a universal townread and LINK HIM TO A PLAYER THAT WAS NULL GETTING WAGONED FOR DISCUSSION PURPOSES and NO ONE gave a ****! There's your damn reason, now vote Gorf.

Also, for the love of god, do NOT protect kuz and instead go for Mac. kuz is just going to keep ****ting on dayphases with awful nulltells and his push of me over Gorf MORE than demonstrates his incompetence.

 

[Gargaglione]

Bats looks really town to me, hes trying to find scum in his normal ways which is a good thing.

Slam... i'm not so sure of yet I hate seeing him so passive hes not really playing at all which worries me.

I hate people who jump wagons from sheep to sheep without a ton of reasoning and this current push looks odd to me.

Who are these people you "hate", are they scum? What current push looks odd and why?

 

[Gargaglione]

It's off gut? Have you actually been reading his quote chain posts?

Lol. So bad.

 

[Gargaglione]

Holder of Heel, that is really all you have to say about the game at the moment?

Rajam's vote on Mac was also terrible....

This is going to be a long game.

 

[batsnacks]

are you mafia Damdred?

You aren't asking any questions and your only contribution so far is that I'm town and mindlessly sleeping is lame.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

In addition to what Ronike, Gorf and Gargs mentioned about outside communications:

These outside chatrooms are pretty useless for conspiring against mafia because we can't trust the people in it because they're not town confirmed. We don't even know WHO the players are in the chat room. In my particular room there is a TON of people and it just seems highly unlikely that mafia doesn't have a mole in it OR won't infiltrate it eventually. So @ batsnacks this isn't asking people to role claim whatsoever.

Let's talk about the set up for a second. Here are a couple points:

• In terms of items, everyone who has access to a chatroom has both a file AND an ID. The ID to me is completely redundant from a game design perspective unless there was an external use for it.
• The IDs are used to get in the chatroom. Again this is redundant because our files should have all the necessary info for doing that.
• Unlike our files, the IDs are TRADEABLE! This is huge; It pretty much guarantees that some IDs will find their way out of the hands of the original owner. This may already have happened. It's clear from this that mafia has a way to impersonate people in outside chat rooms.

My takeaway from all this is: These outside chat rooms aren't that useful for conspiring because we don't know who's in it and if they're town. Also that scum can definitely impersonate people somehow and that they probably can trade the IDs amongst themselves.

Knowing this, scum might try to impersonate ppl later on and then claim a character that was in the room. A very obvious way for them to leverage this strat is to impersonate someone and then claim that character when they're pushed to claim later on in the game. One way of preventing that is for everyone up front to make it known whether they have access to an internal group so that they are explicitly tied to that and they can't claim someone who's in a group when they said they weren't or vice versa. It forces scum to try and decide how they want to play out the impersonation and claiming **** right now instead of giving them flexibility to maneuver later.

I'm ok with talking about all of this because I'm sure that mafia already knows it. And I'm ok with asking people to reveal their outside-comms status because i don't see how mafia will gain any useful information from that. (Besides I guess how many people are in rooms but no biggie). And like ppl said, look at all the juicy discussion we got from this.

One thing I didn't think about is that maybe there are rooms where people are town-confirmed to each other, and by initially asking ppl about whether they should reveal, some of their reactions could have outed them to scum. Small chance of this and it's too late to fix anyways.... Plus they should know they're fine with revealing their status since many others are also in the same boat and noone knows who belongs to which groups.

so this is what we'll do
EVERYONE: Claim if you have access to outside communications status OR provide a very compelling reason for not diverging the information.

 

[batsnacks]

We're coming clean about outside-communication groups? Welp.

I'm in one, and I suspect nearly every foe to the mafia is in one, if not all. Hence my apprehensions towards Bats confusion about them and how he regarded them as masons and as power roles to be protected.

FYI @Kira, Mihael Keehl, Rod Ross, and Jack Neylon (most likely has eyes) are probably the mafia members you need to be writing down in that notebook of yours.

Can you like... Explain this post better? I am not looking for holes or trying to scum read you or anything I just don't understand this.

Why do you think all the townies can communicate outside of thread? I can't. What are these names and why are they mafia? How did you get those names?

What is "eyes"?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Following people who have claimed they have access to outside comms:
Ronike
Holder of the Heel
Gargy
Mac

 

[batsnacks]

How many people are in your group Mac? I guess cats out of the bag now.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

i don't see a relevant reason for divulging that info

i def said diverging instead of divulging b4, smh