Death Note Mafia - Game Thread - Ovah

[Holder of the Heel]

Can players be banned for playing against their wincon?

Settle down, that would only hurt us.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I'll keep my cool, but I'm just picturing the worst case scenario here and this could end up hurting town a lot more than than him simply being lynched.

This blows.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Honestly if I were in his shoes I'd edit the post out and request to be modkilled.

He's a dead man regardless (assuming he isn't lying ofc).

 

[Fire Emblemier]

By the reactions I can tell I did a hugely bad move. Sorry about that then. Well the best way to learn is to make mistakes, I guess.

I'll continue reading the thread.

 

[Orboknown]

Its not playing against his wincon, its him not knowing how the setup works.
Also apparently kyryk is at fault so dont blame fe for it. Live and let learn

 

[Orboknown]

By the reactions I can tell I did a hugely bad move. Sorry about that then. Well the best way to learn is to make mistakes, I guess.

I'll continue reading the thread.

The method of killing in this game by scum involves matching a player to tue id he is given. Not your fault i suppose

 

[Holder of the Heel]

No, he's not dead necessarily, there are two Steves remember? And a player can only write in the Death Note once per cycle, therefore a single name clogs up a Dawn, Day, Dusk, and Night. There's value in this, and he might not die for a while. It sucks regardless, but still.

 

[Orboknown]

Trgs reaction likely means hes town tho.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I've been town bro.

And a player can only write in the Death Note once per cycle

Forgot about this. When I was Kira I could write as many names as I wanted at any time.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Trgs reaction likely means hes town tho.

Seems like a huge leap from nowhere to make that conclusion, not that I suspect otherwise.

 

[Orboknown]

Seems like a huge leap from nowhere to make that conclusion, not that I suspect otherwise.

Doyo u see scum trg making that kind of remark towards fe slot? If anything i feel like hed say something along the lines of what me and ronike did and then just kill him later

 

[Holder of the Heel]

It's easy to justify both ways. The Scum Gamer could be acting overly emotional about something bad happening for the town to appear like he's town. Therefore it's worthless as a tell to me. I'd rather look at bigger things to be honest.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Holder is this about to lead to another one of your tests?

 

[Fire Emblemier]

So I'm pretty much doomed to get killed then. If there was a scum Death note holder in my group anyway I would still be ****** regardless of if I said it.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

No sir. I'll let you know when the next one comes.

Well, after you turned in your answers.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

So I'm pretty much doomed to get killed then. If there was a scum Death note holder in my group anyway I would still be ****** regardless of if I said it.

Excellent observation. However, you may be set to die in the future already because the time of death can be set beyond the day it was written.

 

[Alakaslam]

Ok, anyway

Someone speak of damdred. People want my take but I don't even know what he said; quote me, say what he said, and I will answer

 

[The Real Gamer]

@ Fire Emblemier I apologize for my blowup. Feel free to continue to read and look for any scummy behavior that you're suspicious of. You have nothing to lose at this point, but you can still be a net positive for town.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

@ Alakaslam

@Damdred how many people are in your chat group?

Wait, wait... don't answer that.

Let's try something.

Do you know who Steve is?

Yes I know a steve

 

[Ronike]

Oh god... I'm not even a third of the way through yet... Might not be able to finish this up tonight, but I am getting some nice notes and such. I'll make mention of my more prominent thoughts whenever I need to pass out to get to work early tomorrow. Do people want to just post a wall which consists of my notes, or a cliffnotes version?

A questions that I do want answered tho...

There are 17 players. There is a group half that size. There is another group I know to be half the size of THAT group. Then there is Mafia either one less or the same exact size as that smaller group..

Holder, you mention knowing of a bunch of groups. Obviously you have the one group, then you also know the general size of the mafia, what about this second group?

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Any group outside of the alleged large one would be 3-4 members: be it the FBI, the SPK, or the Mafia. Those are the only possibilities that I can imagine. Theoretically we could have all of them; but that would leave people like Ranmaru or Bats as liars. In addition, if a Mafia exists, I don't understand why we didn't have a Mafia kill, as we already decided, the Rajam kill couldn't reasonably have been it.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

However, at the same time, if the SPK exists, then the Mafia not existing (Mello) would be quite asymmetrical flavor wise in my opinion, but it shouldn't be considered impossible.

 

[Gargaglione]

Fascinating.

adum, does FireEmblemnier's recent revelation reflect on his alignment?

 

[Ronike]

Ugh, I was really hoping to get through all of day 1 today, but I only got up to page 14 unfortunately... And Not only is my reading comprehension starting to go after reading 520 posts, but I also have to get up in about 6 hours to go to work again, so that's it for me tonight I think. Oh the joys of working...

TL;DR from my notes, which I will wall up in the next post: Kuz is really odd at second glance at the beginning of the day, and could very well be a good lynch tomorrow, even outside of morbid composer things. If ryu flips scum, well theres a lot linking the two together, and I'd be even more inclined for a kuz lynch.

Feeling Ryu more and more as I read as a good lynch target, not just a eliminate cult possibilities type of a target.

Like both TRG and Holder more and more on a reread, good enough to call town reads at this point.

Adum has some noteworthiness for him that Im not huge on. Specifically calls Garg out on trying to discredit people in a manner that seems like its trying to discredit Garg. Not enough to lean one way or another on its own, but Im keeping an eye on him.

More and more I realize that Garg has a very different playstyle from what Im used to, and also very particular and unique ideas on whats scummy and not scummy, so trying to read him more objectively, rather than just based on my reads and takes.

Worth noting as well, I intend to do Ratios later, but Im not done with the read yet, so don't want to update my views too much without all the info.

WARNING, WARNING! GIANT PILE OF TEXT INCOMING!

 

[Ronike]

Take a lot of this with some grains of salt, its pretty much my stream of consciousness as I read, so its not particularilly conjoined with other, later posts, and I do have some second guessing kind of built into some of my points, but I figured, more info for people is better, so I might as well share what I found noteworthy from page 4 to page 14. Enjoy the read, or to preserve your sanity, just look at the post above, where I summarize a lot of my points.

Garg #143 goes after Gorf for suspecting bats. While I agree bats is obvtown, this post was a bit weird, and doesn’t really describe what exactly Garg doesn’t like in Gorf, and just is kind of theatric. Mac jumps right in on it too. It might just be that these two players have a much more aggressive playstyle than me, but Im noting this right now.


Kuz in #146 silences batsnacks, which obviously doesn’t stick, but has bats posted toDay yet? Did this carry over to toDay? (Future ronike note: Yes, bats has posted, this was dumb to think, nvm)


Very definite Garg/Mac links, from posts like #165-166, as well as just general agreement. Could be players with similar playstyles, as it seems rather obvious to be a scum team, but a thing to remember regardless.


Bats’ persistence on the claiming is bad is incredibly obnoxious to read every other post, and I fear it might have led some people to be ok with just sitting back and waiting for things to blow over. Annoying, but still feel he’s purty darn obvtown.


Post #176 by kuz is interesting, as kuz blames garg for just trying to appear confident and solid on his push, and that he’s reaching, which seems to be exactly what Kuz is doing with his wagon/read on garg… --Kuz


Ryu flips from “Nah, I see Garg as town” to “Alright, I can see Garg is weird” in like, 3 posts. I know its been mentioned before, but the thing that is interesting to note to me is that he comes aorund due to some of the weird ass logic kuz uses. Not a fan of this, and it is minor evidence of a Ryu/Kuz link. --Ryu


Kuz calls garg scum for telling kuz to “get over himself, he’s not right” in #186? Probably just taunting…


Ryu in #191 says that he agrees with Garg on his (Ryu’s) main suspicion of gorf, but he still wants to vote him (Garg)? Odd. It also says he doesn’t like Gamer cuz he wouldnt take a stance on claiming, after Gamer took a stance on claiming. He did have finals johns tho, so skimming?


Garg #194 talks about not spoonfeeding people why Gorf was scummy. Don’t like, making an argument against someone isn’t spoonfeeding, just making a post which quotes two things is just reaching. - Garg


Kuz #201 is strang, and I’d suggest reading it. In it, he says theres nothing wrong with thinking bats is scum, when at this point, bats has done nothing even remotely odd yet, and just has TONS of dumbtown obvtown posts. Screams scum trying to not get backed into a corner with a particular slot. ---Kuz



He then not 4 posts later says bats is town? There is something hugely weird in going from saying that Garg is scum for calling someone out for thinking bats is anything other than town, to Bats is def town. These stronger reads, which you are using to build arguments are mutually exclusive, and its odd.


Ran comes back suddenly and just votes Garg, for no apparent reason. Dont like -Ran


Alakaslam is hard to read, but in #233 claims he is “Svengali” or someone that he can’t help but sheep. I don’t really like this claim, its like he’s looking for an excuse to later on just follow Kuz’s wagons. -Slam


Ryu’s #250-251 talks about and gives reasons why doesn’t like TRG. Not reasons Im a huge fan of, but reasons nonetheless. He then talks about how he’d rather be on garg because he feels Garg seems scummier, when he has done nothing but argue with TRG on the last page, and never really given reason as to why Garg would seem scummier to him. Seems to be just a desire to be on someone elses wagon, rather than having created a town wagon of his own, though is is admitedly reaching somewhat, and admition that he’s just sheeping takes away from the idea a bit as well. -Ryu


Garg posts a lot, but says mostly the same stuff over and over, that we should all stop sheeping Kuz, and Gorf needs to come and talk before he’ll talk. Not that the former point doesn’t have merit, but theres actually not a huge amount of content that he posts, just a lot of circle talk. Again, think its a playstyle thing, but worth noting.


Garg #263 is weird. Talks about how he thinks kuz isn’t scum, which is strange in and of itself for all the complaining garg has done, but then talks about how he thinks that Kuz isn’t telling the truth? Seems odd - Garg.


Damdred shows up in #274, and actually lays out some helpful points about bats and slam, as well as an opinion on the stupid Garg wagon. A man of few words, but this is a decent concise post. (Future Ronike note, he then almost never comes back and posts. Lurking?)


Mac shows up around #278 and starts hard defending Garg, while more subtly pushing the wagon onto Gorf. He also claims NUMEROUS times that he doesn’t want to defend Garg, but it KEEPS HAPPENIN BRO! --Mac


Ryu’s #286 is strange, and talks about how after arguing with TRG for a while, he feels better about him. This is the first time it had ever been mentioned by Ryu that he’s feeling better, and is seemingly in response to TRG trying to start up a wagon. Seems to be just a reason to get off a wagon that lost steam, and validate why is vote was where it was. --Ryu


He also pushes a mac which mentioned being somewhat behind into looking heavily into Garg, rather than taking too close a look at the Ryu wagon. Kuz then comes in at #288 and does much the same. Was this a distracting tactic, or am I reaching? Points again to a Kuz/Ryu connection if nothing else, and its more subtle here.


Bats and TRG’s discussion about limiting the talk of how many people are in a room is a good town tell methinks +TRG, +Bats(lol at +s for obvtown)


Holder mentions not wanting to post during the garg stuff because it made him feel “brain dead”. Avoiding talking about a wagon that town started stupidly? #354


#361 Holder mentions knowing of a group ~8 people in size, one ~4 people in size, and a 3 or 4 person mafia. How does he know this information?


#369 holder says he thinks theres a 0% chance of mafia being in his room. This seems highly unlikely from a game design perspective, but Holder is mostly posting at this point about setup things. Is he trying to plant seed of trust for room, or am I reaching? -Holder


He also mentions having never played scum. For that reason, I don’t see him being quite savvy enough to know how to avoid certain pitfalls that most seem to fall in in their first scum game, so unless I see a lot of scum slips or such from him, I am currently inclined to believe he is town. He is smart tho, so not an iron read. +++Holder


Garg once again posts just quotes and wants people to create a case for him. Seems like a playstyle thing at this point rather than scum intent, but I dont really like the playstyles. Make your own cases please Garg, rather than trying to allow others to make it for you.


Already commented on #398 a bit, but I do want to specifically ask how he knows the two steves are in different groups?


Damdred #405 complains the game is moving too slowly, when we have 11 pages in two days? Wut? Please post actual reads and reasons please, kthx. Does take stands against Ryu, KyryK, and Slam though. Stil -Damdred


Holder #421 defends Ryu somewhat minorly. Not a huge amount, not enough for a -, but Im not a fan.


Like TRG #427. A very natural reaction to Holder’s #421, with a lot of questions I had myself when reading the post. +TRG


Gargaglione says Kyryk is scum and town should lynch KyryK after lynching Gorf. Do you still have this opinion? Obviously, barring lynching Ryu and or Kuz to avoid cultings or that kind of thing, the question is more so is KyryK/FE still scum, or was it just an in conjunction with each either type of read?


TRG #453 answers my question, mostly on town reads, being Mac, Holded, and Bats, with Ryu as scum, and most others as null. His reasons for doing so mostly line up with mine and I find myself likeing his reasoning and such. +TRG


#460 Adum goes in hard on Garg and against Gorf. Something to note for later, though it fits his rather… unique outlook on the game usually.


Ryu#469 is much pandering, and very little opinion. Just mostly repeats things that others have said, and more strongly links himself to Kuz. Says that he’s starting to see Gorf case more as well, set up for later vote? Also worth noting is Gorf has hardly been around at all, so its hard to see how Ryu would now see Gorf wagon better… --Ryu


#471 of Garg is a good post and highlights a lot of what Garg thinks that explains some of his early actions. He talks about how link relationships are scummy in his opnion,even though its fairly common amoung the old guard to do this, and I would argue it has some merit, as linked players are often players that perhaps are talking outside of thread, like the mafia? Regardless though ++Garg


#475 by adum accuses Garg of trying to discredit people for scumreading him, which is much the same as what he is doing in this post. Adum can tunnel a bit though on people, and this fits his meta to some extent, so somewhat benefit of the doubt, just something to keep an eye on. -Adum


Garg #515 address this point, and points out he had reasons for trying to discredit and call people out. What goes unsaid is that adum is trying to discredit Garg for no such good reasons. Adum trying to eliminate threats early?

 

[Alakaslam]

Kuz is svengali, not me.

See svengali as a puppetmaster. Someone who is so skilled at changing my opinion that it is like he holds the strings behind my opinion- as soon as I scumread him he does some incredible thing that makes me sheep him.

 

[ranmaru]

Why FireEmbler should die:

#1135
Here he doesn't come in with a scumread or any reads. He comes in asking for 'insight'. He sees TRG's direction (ryu) and asks him if he can give him a statement about his scumminess, so he can agree to it and join.

#1142
Which he does. Second post in the game, and he's already ready to kill ryu.

#1152
Parroting. This isn't his thoughts. It's obvious. It has to do with what TRG said before. (I am focusing on the first half of this post, the team he makes is stupid)

Spoiler: quotes

What is the info to be gained, exactly? Can you give insight on what would happen depending on if he flips Town/Scum if we lynch him.

The thought process TRG has makes sense to me, it allows us to find out whether Kuz is a scummate or not, and if Ryu turns out to be Town, it can also prevent a conversion to scum from his ability. Yet, I would like to hear more from the rest of the players before I put a lynch on Ryu.

I'm currently thinking that Garg is pushing for someone else so his scummate doesn't get lynched. I think a Ryu/Garg/Kuz scumteam might be a good assumption.

@#HBC | Mac: Get on this? Thoughts?
@ adumbrodeus : Get on this? Thoughts?
@ Ronike : Get on this? Thoughts?
@th3kuzinator : Get on this? Thoughts?
@ Gargaglione : Get on this? Thoughts?
@ The Real Gamer : Get on this? Thoughts?
@Red Ryu: Get on this? Thoughts?

 

[ranmaru]

Theory: I believe there to be no vigilante at all. I believe mafia either no killed, or killed rajam to make it seem like a vig killed. I believe the latter is more likely, as this would make us believe mafia can't kill instantly, therefore giving fuel to the theory that scum have a delayed kill, finding names and killing with the deathnote. Regardless, I think it is safer to assume mafia can kill instantly, and be open to the possibility of delayed reaction kills.

Use ambassador power: Banish Holder from this realm.
Reason: #658 (Also I just realized Rajam liked my post. :o )

@#HBC | Mac : Read on Adum?
@ adumbrodeus : Why are you fine with me dying?
@ Ronike : I voted Garg simply because I was still bandwagonning at the beginning of the game. I had nothing to show in terms of scumreads, so I joined kuz to help him get the show rolling. Once I started to get some semblance of reads, I showed my cards and I didn't do the same again. What is your read on me? (I'm sure you'll get to this upon you finishing your read through, so if you get to this ignore that)

I'm starting to dislike your play this game, something seems off.

Go more into this Ryu. What is your read on me?

 

[ranmaru]

##: Fireemblemner

I am also fine with lynching Alakaslam today as compromise.

 

[adumbrodeus]

@ Ronike I'm shivering with antici........pation for the next part, do try to make it quick please

Theory: I believe there to be no vigilante at all. I believe mafia either no killed, or killed rajam to make it seem like a vig killed. I believe the latter is more likely, as this would make us believe mafia can't kill instantly, therefore giving fuel to the theory that scum have a delayed kill, finding names and killing with the deathnote. Regardless, I think it is safer to assume mafia can kill instantly, and be open to the possibility of delayed reaction kills.

To be quite frank whether the rajam kill was a vig or scum we know that we have vigs because we have at least one flipped gun.


@ adumbrodeus : Why are you fine with me dying?
[/quote]

Because you're null and I have a pretty large townpool. Granted certain people have a higher priority then you but nothing that you've done makes me feel strongly about your slot so you fall into the "death by process of elimination" category of lynches I'm ok with.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Messed up those quote tags.

 

[ranmaru]

Ok. What do you think of my #658? You never commented on it.
Also how committed are you to Ryu? Are you willing to move along to FireEmblemnier with me?
Why is Alakaslam town to you?

 

[Orboknown]

Theory: I believe there to be no vigilante at all. I believe mafia either no killed, or killed rajam to make it seem like a vig killed. I believe the latter is more likely, as this would make us believe mafia can't kill instantly, therefore giving fuel to the theory that scum have a delayed kill, finding names and killing with the deathnote. Regardless, I think it is safer to assume mafia can kill instantly, and be open to the possibility of delayed reaction kills.

Use ambassador power: Banish Holder from this realm.
Reason: #658 (Also I just realized Rajam liked my post. :o )

@#HBC | Mac : Read on Adum?
@ adumbrodeus : Why are you fine with me dying?
@ Ronike : I voted Garg simply because I was still bandwagonning at the beginning of the game. I had nothing to show in terms of scumreads, so I joined kuz to help him get the show rolling. Once I started to get some semblance of reads, I showed my cards and I didn't do the same again. What is your read on me? (I'm sure you'll get to this upon you finishing your read through, so if you get to this ignore that)



Go more into this Ryu. What is your read on me?

So you think theres a bumch kf empty guns gloating around with no bullets?

 

[The Real Gamer]

@ ranmaru I noticed the parroting as well but I assumed it was coming from a lack of experience (and he's "slip" made me think this as well).

What's your response to his claim on the previous page though? If he's telling the truth he's pretty clearly dead town. Do you think he's lying?

@ Fire Emblemier what's your response to Ran's case? Also how much previous mafia experience do you have?

 

[The Real Gamer]

His*

@ Holder of the Heel what's your response to Ran's case?

Regardless the chances of me changing my vote at this point are pretty slim. Ryu needs to go and unless scum comes out and says "Hey I'm scum vote for me instead" I most likely won't change this position.

 

[ranmaru]

@ Orboknown : I'll amend my statement. Since there are guns, my theory is moot. I'll take it back. I do think that doesn't give people the security of waiting a night for someone to be killed/vigged. Meaning, I don't think one should assume that a kill will take two nights because they might not have eyes. (Yet I am open to the possibility) That is why I stated it. Here is why I have a problem with it:

Excellent observation. However, you may be set to die in the future already because the time of death can be set beyond the day it was written.

It gives people leeway to wait more than a night to give time. In reality, there is no set. We lynch FireEmblemnier today. I also dislike this coming from Holder. He acts like delayed killings is fact, when it is only theory.

@ adumbrodeus : Please answer me. You remain null to me as well, yet you answering these questions can help me to read you.

@ The Real Gamer : I do not see how it makes him town, please explain to me why his claiming makes him town. I see it as null. I have a theory that it could have been staged to give him town credit, which comes from the above theory. (Without the theory, it is null) I also do see him as inexperienced scum. This is why my case is so thin, but I don't need anything else. I know you really want Ryu but I feel you also need to re-visit your qualms with Holder. You two hugged it out but I don't think that really resolved your problems. Please look at that later again.

I want to get the best push today because if I don't, I'll be waiting many long days before this game opens again after Dawn. I'm not satisfied with Ryu going ToDay.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Ok. What do you think of my #658? You never commented on it.
Also how committed are you to Ryu? Are you willing to move along to FireEmblemnier with me?
Why is Alakaslam town to you?

I disagree with your conclusion and I did not find it telling of alignment, yours or his. To be blunt, I think it's ridiculous to even argue the vote hop was scummy when he explicitly called himself on it to test somebody else.

They're both on my scumlist, but I'm more doubtful of a lynch happening on firemblemier then RR in later days, so I'll consider it.

As for Alak, read my 1149 and 1150 please, this applies just as well to grilling everyone else as grilling kuz, you don't know what is based on nightplay and scum don't seem to be able to acquire names on their own so it's doubly important.

You know what? Let's skip my response to this and just be real for a minute.

adum, how many people on this playerlist do you trust to give legitimate rationale for connections? Now how many people do you think will instead botch them and work under convoluted thought processes as a result? These are rhetorical questions.

Depends on the person involved, town is a very mixed bag in this game. Trying to close it out is ridiculous however.

 

[adumbrodeus]

also patience is a virtue ran, my SO is sleeping right nearbye me and finalizing my birthday plans for today so justifiably a bit distracted.

 

[ranmaru]

@ adumbrodeus :

1. It's scummy because his intentions for testing the vote are not what he says they are. I don't think his justification is enough to clear him of what I have accused him of. Especially because 1.) He never made a conclusion 2.) He never looked at Alakaslam who reacted to his 'test', he ignored it, and 3.) He left the vote on without any valid reason, and then tried to cover it up after the fact by saying he had a dislike for Ryu anyway. Only until pushed by Ronike, did he make a conclusion on TRG, here. This is also suspicious, because it doesn't come out as genuine. If he really had a problem with TRG, he would have brought that up immediately after the gambit, yet he did not. Him bringing it up later after the fact, was scum opportunism. He was trying to throw dirt on TRG, not trying to find scum.

2. Alright, I expect you to move early though. It's either move now or you are being comfy with your Ryu vote. Come on! Urgency.

3. Basically, you say it's better to discuss town reads in private? I have no such luxury. That is not fair to me. Plus with the anonymity, I cannot ask anyone to poke your brain to gain reads for me. But it's whatever, I'll make a case on Alakaslam and force you to comment later anyway.

4. I'm sorry, I was impatient. I honestly thought you might ignore me, that is why I said that. I forget I stayed up all night! Happy birthday man!!

@ The Real Gamer : What do you think of Adum's point on Holder? How are you reading Adum? Agree with what I said on Holder in the above paragraph? Please don't let this dissolve.

 

[ranmaru]

@ Fire Emblemier : I saw you viewing. Have ye nothing to say?