Dear Fsmash:

[RyokoYaksa]

You're more trouble than you're worth using.

 

[Eten]

Oh hey don't confuse me I thought this was the Zelda forum.

I totally disagree with you btw. Fsmash's best and almost single use is for its long range, simply stated. I like KOing as early as possible so I keep my over-B fresh for that reason, but I still need a move w/ that sort of range for my approach game. Basically, once past projectiles, the fsmash spaces farther than just about any other attack, and at the tip you're far enough that someone can't simply roll, shield, or dodge it and be able to punish you for it. When used specifically in this manner, there is no trouble to be had. Any other positive attribute fsmash has... is simply a bonus.

 

[DAKMASTER]

d-smash + fsmash =

 

[Lucrece]

You're more trouble than you're worth using.

Fsmashes from certain characters just keep disappointing you, don't they, Yaksa?

 

[Norm]

Ya her forward smash is great i make great use of it.

 

[Snakeee]

It could be alot better, but its nice that it hits behind you and its your best bet at high damages after the double d smash if youre near the edge of the stage at least.

 

[looduhcriss]

It hits from behind basically a full circle around her and stuns all the way - so if some1 is goin to grab u from behind pull out a Fsmash and it will stop them...

Thats really all i use it for and maybe spacing sometimes or extra stun to get a grab in or so

 

[fkacyan]

Any situation that you can use an F-Smash for is better dealt with using her side-B, IMO.

 

[heypancho]

And it's always there when you think it's going to be good.

 

[Yorenec]

You're more trouble than you're worth using.

Uh, I think you meant to post this in the Samus boards. This would be the ZSS boards.

 

[WhiteWingDemon]

Fsmash albeit not being good as her Fspecial, does have its uses. I find that is generally better to use against fast characters such as fox, falcon, sonic, metaknight. Speedy players seem to get into the dead-zone and avoid the Fspecial, some can outright cancel it.

 

[Snakeee]

Her Fspecial has more lag than the Fsmash so it is more punishable by these speedy characters.

...No it doesn't. Not even close. You should short hop the forward B to cut the lag of that too.

 

[Ørion]

... It is not worthless, it is a very good technique.

 

[0RLY]

It's not completely useless, but if you use it when your opponent is at low damage, it's kb+hitstun is lower than it's lag. Basically, use it, just not too much. B> is more effective for killing, since it can be used in midair and can hit people on ledges, if spaced properly.

 

[DAKMASTER]

its faster sometimes to use f-smash

 

[fkacyan]

Fsmash albeit not being good as her Fspecial, does have its uses. I find that is generally better to use against fast characters such as fox, falcon, sonic, metaknight. Speedy players seem to get into the dead-zone and avoid the Fspecial, some can outright cancel it.

Lol@Deadzone

You do realize that canceling a move requires a move to hit it, which would cause punishable lag? Also, the 'deadzone' you speak up is a small knockback that often hits them into the sweetspot.

The F-smash doesn't kill from the middle of Final Destination til around 150%. At least the F-Special hits them UP as opposed to the side so you can try to juggle them.

 

[LoyalSoldier]

Why is it anytime a move doesn't instantly kill someone it is called "useless" ?

 

[ecstatic]

LoyalSoldier, I totally I agree. Fox's laser, ROB's dsmash, and Lucas's PK Fire is useless. >_>

 

[tisthemorning]

The fact that f-smash is ZSS's only move that hits both front and back is reason enough to use it.

 

[ph00tbag]

Why is it anytime a move doesn't instantly kill someone it is called "useless" ?

It can hit people if they roll behind you. In that sense, it kind of covers your bases, but in that case, you might as well just be using ftilts so you can follow the roll and start to space for Plasma Whip.

It can kill at around 150%, 30-40% later than bair, Flip Jump and Plasma Whip.

It's not useless, but it's not terribly useful either. It brings in a great deal of afterlag, and doesn't have as much range as it looks like. Ergo, it's more trouble than it's worth.

 

[Eten]

The fact that f-smash is ZSS's only move that hits both front and back is reason enough to use it.

This isn't true. Check out uptilt, hits both in front and behind you, she kicks her legs out. Hits em' upwards and is fast too.

Fsmash still outranges a lot of things, and for spacing purposes it is good.

 

[Dedu]

Utilt to Uair/Fair/Bair is better than Fsmash.

Unless you do Up B to Dsmash repeat combo to Dsmash -> fsmash if you want to save the risk of doing side b and you tripped in the process of doing so, allowing the opponent to get away from the Dsmash stun frames...

I agree with some people here. Side b is just better to use instead, especially after a SH jump.
Fsmash is good for rollers mostly. But it has horrible afterlag.

 

[tisthemorning]

This isn't true. Check out uptilt, hits both in front and behind you, she kicks her legs out. Hits em' upwards and is fast too.

Fsmash still outranges a lot of things, and for spacing purposes it is good.

Yah, true, totally forgot about uptilt. :/

 

[Chaosblade77]

It works as a more "standard downsmash" since it hits on both sides of you like a typical downsmash would, but it's pretty slow and I rarely find any applications where it's the best attack to use.

I may not recall correctly, but I think it's LESS laggy than her forward B. While the duration is definitely longer (more frames), I think it has fewer frames at the beginning and end that don't have hitboxes/don't do damage. I really don't remember though since I've only played like twice this last week (both times with Ike) thanks to projects and stuff... so it's probably best to just ignore that statement.

 

[Garde]

Her forward+B is faster in terms of recovery than her f-smash, and it's much easier to space with the forward+B because you can use it while airborne.

The only big problem with forward+B is the deadzone between both hitboxes. People that play against larger characters will never see it, but people that play against small characters like Toon Link, Squirtle, Olimar, Pikachu, etc. will notice that there is definitely a spot in the forward+B that has no hitbox and so you can completely whiff the move even while they're in range. That's the move's only weakness.

F-smash is practically useless, though it seems to come out slightly faster than forward+B (they're pretty similar in start up lag), it has much more lag afterwards, making it very dangerous to just throw around. I rarely use it, but when I do actually find myself using it, I'm glad she has it. It's definitely not a move you should rely on, but it is useful on rare occasion.

The only move of hers that is equally undesirable is her d-air, imho. Again, very limited uses, but when you have to use it to kill momentum, you're glad you have it (you just wish you had something else to use against people beneath you the rest of the time).

 

[Ken34]

fsmash has its uses, as stated already, its good to catch people rolling behind you. but thats about it, lol.

 

[fkacyan]

fsmash has its uses, as stated already, its good to catch people rolling behind you. but thats about it, lol.

As has been mentioned, uptilts are better.

 

[Looper]

save forward B for a killing blow, if you use it to much, it's knockback power will diminish and it won't kill

 

[ph00tbag]

save forward B for a killing blow, if you use it to much, it's knockback power will diminish and it won't kill

So? Use bair or Flip Jump. Alternatively, use a lot of uairs, tilts and lasers in between each use of Plasma Whip. What's the point of having such a scary spacing tool like Plasma Whip if you're only going to use it to kill?

 

[Looper]

So? Use bair or Flip Jump. Alternatively, use a lot of uairs, tilts and lasers in between each use of Plasma Whip. What's the point of having such a scary spacing tool like Plasma Whip if you're only going to use it to kill?

i'm sorry, it was in response to people saying forward b is better to use than forward smash. it is easier to KO people with forward b. so in a comparison, if you're worried about which to use, abuse forward smash for damage and forward b as a surprise KO

 

[Eten]

Because it's even scarier when you can kill with it at lower %. Samus has other, better setup moves anyway, but over-B is her best KO tool.

 

[Snakeee]

Ok, I don't see how Double D smash - F smash near the edge of a stage at high percents is not useful...

 

[ph00tbag]

Ok, I don't see how Double D smash - F smash near the edge of a stage at high percents is not useful...

I think it's already been mentioned that this is a useful combo. However, this is high percents we're talking about. The move only gains use if your opponent is over 150% or so, and you generally will want to have them dead by that point, so it's more of a fixer move than a first option for a kill.

 

[Dark.Pch]

I just use her move for spacing and a shield eater when people wanna land a hit on me and see it coming then pull up a shield. So to me it does have its uses. I would not do it up in thier faces.

Also its a good move out of the shield If they are behind you since that move hits from the back first.

 

[Garde]

Yeah... The move really isn't that great considering there are 40 frames (2/3 of a second) of animation with no hitbox at the end of the move. Also, the first hit is in front for 2 frames, then 2 frames after the first hitbox vanishes the hitbox in the back becomes active for 2 frames. 21 frames of startup and 40 frames of lag for 4 frames total of active hitboxes (and only 2 for each side)... Definitely not a reliable move unless you're guaranteed a hit like in the d-smash x2 -> f-smash.

 

[7thFonon]

yeah, I'll always go for f+B before this attack. Recovery is stupid slow.... I guess it's good to punish someone's laggy air attack before hitting the ground because its range. Besides that, it's just like Garde said with the d+A smash x 2.

 

[Ares And Enyo]

I think the idea behind the fsmash is that it hits in what is the dead zone of the side b .... congratulations if u make this useful

 

[Snakeee]

I think I take back what I said on this....finally realized that D smash combo to forward B should work. Now I think F smash is at best a rare situational move.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

I think I take back what I said on this....finally realized that D smash combo to forward B should work. Now I think F smash is at best a rare situational move.

It works at about 80% and higher. You can even get two downsmashes in and then a side B at higher %.

 

[BANSHI]

never mind