Dear commentators: you're awesome, but it's 2012. Time to step it up.

[Supermodel From Paris]

Link to original post: [drupal=5356]Dear commentators: you're awesome, but it's 2012. Time to step it up.[/drupal]



So I'll start off with something that should preface this post: commentating is hard. A commentator in a grassroots community like this is really putting themselves out there professionally and personally. I really respect people who mic themselves in front of hundreds of other nerds and talk over matches.

With that said, it's 2012. If the only characters you have a deep understanding of are in B tier or above+whatever you play, consider putting someone on the mic who knows about the characters in the match. Match commentators are supposed to do more than provide funny puns and act silly, they are supposed to be Smash authorities who provide insight into what's happening on-screen that your average person couldn't.

I've been watching the ZSS matches from Concentrate and Impact, and watching some streams and some of the things these guys say are ridiculous. They lavish praise onto Salem for landing full jab combos on characters that can't avoid it, refer to his awesome down-b footstools a lot (you can just hold jump), freak out over basic frame traps and follow-ups, and so much more. They don't know simple things about the character (one of the commentators once said "ZSS starts with.. what, like 4 suit pieces?"). They never talk about the stuff that Salem does that is actually so game-changing (abusing 17% damage fair, b-reversals and wavebouncing, tether cancelling, etc) or why he's such a good player, but instead marvel over day 1 ZSS stuff from March 2008.

And it's not just NY/NJ or ZSS either. Listening to almost any commentator talk about any character that isn't top tier is borderline painful.

I get that there are a lot of characters in brawl and that it's difficult to know everything and that commentating isn't a paying gig. Cool. If there are 50 people at your tournament, though, someone knows how ROB and Sonic work. Put them on the mic. Or better yet, start playing a lot of characters. If you want to be a commentator really often at smash tournaments though, you should really start learning some things about characters that aren't as played beyond a very basic level.

And for the record, I am not just referring to the guys who did the commentating for ZSS' matches at Concentrate and Impact. This is a pretty much global problem in the scene and I am not calling out specific members of the community.

I like what you guys are trying to do for us. Having commentary is sweet, and it's already leagues better than WC Melee commentary (oh god the horror), but I really think it could be a lot better.

 

[infiniteV115]

~V115 stamp of approval~

 

[Zero_Saber]

In a perfect world this would make allot of sense, but the fact is most people don't want to do commentary, so while there may be someone at the event who really understands some of the lesser known characters the odds of them wanting to commentate are low. Also even if someone is knowledgeable it doesn't mean they automatically make a good commentator. Some people just suck at public speaking and wouldn't be able to do commentary even if they had all of the information to be a great commentator.

Really I just think your expectations are way to big. It would be nice if the commentators knew all of the characters, but by requiring it you would probably lose a bunch of them who don't want to have to put in the time to learn every intricacy of every character.

 

[Browny]

omghai2u SFP

yeah I was watching a lot of vids from those same tournaments recently...

Calling Lucarios downb extreme speed was pretty pro. And Fatal vs Nairo on PS1 I forget whether it was winners/losers bracket, but one of the commentators constantly talking about how Nairo was going to win and dominating while in fact Fatal was bringing it back and won, he didnt actually mention fatal was doing good until after the match was over.

Sure they could be excusable 1-off things, but with this many years of knowledge and practice... it was disappointing.

 

[Ussi]

Have 36 commentators ready (1 for each character, just put a 2nd someone good if its a ditto to have 2 commentators

 

[Luco]

Have 36 commentators ready (1 for each character, just put a 2nd someone good if its a ditto to have 2 commentators

My tournaments don't even HAVE 36 people sometimes. Maybe at a national...

 

[Ussi]

I did mean nationals as that's the omly time you'd have mains for every single character

But at the same time having 36 people on stand by is not something a smash tourney can pull off

So to make my idea actually doable: 4 commentators, 2 that know top-high tier, 2 that know mid-low tier

Bottom tier can still be that wtf does this character do as that's always fun.

 

[Luco]

That sounds pretty cool. I'd love to commentate, if only I knew the meta-game of other characters.

 

[Jam Stunna]

What Smash needs is professional commentary, people who study the game just to know what to say. The ideal would be a pro team like James Chen and UltraDavid who clearly know their stuff. The majors like Apex and Genesis could really use that.

 

[Kewkky]

You're absolutely right, SFP. If there's one thing we can and should change about Smash, it's definitely the commentating. It's not hard in all honesty, but most of the time the commentators are hanging out with friends and having an awesome time that they feel the need to constantly talk about junk and stuff. A good commentator's someone who can attract people to the game, definitely, and if the job's not done right, people won't gain interest. You don't need to be a pro with every character, just be charismatic and knowledgeable is all. Not too hard, right?

 

[TL?]

We need a chris hu.

 

[clowsui]

i'm famous in my community for having a great chris hu impression LOL

but yeah agreed. commentary in this day and age for smash is ***. samuraipanda is the best commentator of brawl time and the last time he was active was in 2009.

 

[#HBC | J]

This is a great criticism blog that holds a lot of truth. Thanks SFP.

It's really funny when you can tell the commentator has no clue about certain characters and makes guesses based on what they believe to be true. However, it is nice to see them trying their best with the limited knowledge they do have.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

SamuraiPanda was great, it's true. Miss that guy's work.

 

[Dre89]

OP- I'm not sure how much sport you watch but what you're demanding is not how commentary works.

The primary commentator (or the only one if there's just one) is simply meant to describe what's going on and spit out random facts every now and then. They're meant be as objective and unopinionated as possible. It's not their job to point out what constitutes high level play, how the match up should be played etc.

That's the job of the secondary colour commentator. These guys are normally (ex)high level players who give their opinion on the play and are allowed to be much more controversial and opinionated than the primary commentator.

InB4youspeltcolorwrong

 

[Jim Morrison]

Dre. is right and the rest is wrong and uneducated.

 

[infiniteV115]

OP- I'm not sure how much sport you watch but what you're demanding is not how commentary works.

The primary commentator (or the only one if there's just one) is simply meant to describe what's going on and spit out random facts every now and then. They're meant be as objective and unopinionated as possible. It's not their job to point out what constitutes high level play, how the match up should be played etc.

That's the job of the secondary colour commentator. These guys are normally (ex)high level players who give their opinion on the play and are allowed to be much more controversial and opinionated than the primary commentator.

InB4youspeltcolorwrong

You act as if this is how commentary should be done. Why is that? Or are you just talking about sports? Is this how it's usually done in sports?

Cause I don't really see why there has to be some sort of template into which every commentator/pair of commentators has to strive to squeeze themselves. And I think things such as how the MU should be played are great topics of commentary, especially when it comes to a character like ZSS where it's apparent that people don't understand her as well as they do other characters.

All SFP is asking is that the commentators understand the basics of the characters in the match...which I don't think is unreasonable considering that this game has been out for about 4 years so anyone who plays it competitively should probably understand the basics of every character by now XD

 

[Tesh]

Salem's execution of so many techniques is unparallelled by any other ZSS in NA. Its really no surprise that he is always a crowd pleaser and why these "basic" moves seem so amazing to people at local events.

 

[-Mars-]

Apex commentary was really bad. Peirce is decent when he's not talking about himself or stuff besides Smash but the other dudes were terrible and really had no clue what they were talking about.

 

[Dre89]

Infinite- That's how commentary is done in sports.

If the commentator is going to give their subjective opinion and make controversial statements, it should be made clear that that they're a high level player. No one wants to hear the opinions of players who haven't achieved anything significant.

 

[Life]

I should point out that being knowledgable does not make one a good or willing commentator, just as it doesn't necessarily make one a good player either. I know quite a bit about how Sonic works but I'm pretty mediocre at both. Jussayin.

Someone probably said this already, I skimmed the thread, sorry.

 

[Browny]

Peirce is decent when he's not talking about himself

That would be a first.

 

[Luigitoilet]

In an ideal world, SSB Commentators read Smash fan fiction over every match.

 

[Jimnymebob]

In an ideal world, SSB Commentators read Smash fan fiction over every match.

This would basically be the best thing ever.
And holy crap there's a Smash Bros. and Bubsy crossover fan fiction. That is simultaneously the best and worst thing to happen to the internet.

 

[infiniteV115]

Salem's execution of so many techniques is unparallelled by any other ZSS in NA. Its really no surprise that he is always a crowd pleaser and why these "basic" moves seem so amazing to people at local events.

Techniques such as...?
He uses tether cancelling more than any other ZSS, that's for sure.
His laser planking is good, that was the only thing he's done that I hadn't already seen done by another ZSS player...hell that was the only thing I hadn't done at that point.
His use of jab is very good, as well as his general CQC game.

These are 3 things that I've been trying to implement into my gameplay because of Salem (3 things I 'learned' from Salem)...that and the general "mobility is good"

It's still no reason to get hype over downB footstools, triple dsmash at high percents or using the full jab combo on characters that have to SDI to avoid the 3rd hit.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Salem's claim to fame is really that he has learned to abuse ZSS' various tools very quickly, exposing just how mobile a character she really is. Watch your average Salem match and he dashes around often in cases most of us might just hit R.

ZSS suffers a bit from having a million options that aren't safe so he abuses her mobility to make her less predictable. Off topic a bit, but that has really always been the argument against ZSS as a good character. She has stuff, but a lot of it can be nullified (not countered, just easily mitigated) by shielding at the right time. The argument has been any good ZSS is just a good player because they just mix up her options a lot and stay unpredictable rather than using some unreasonable, unbeatable strategy. I think Salem's playstyle has succeeded in showing off that ZSS' mobility and unpredictability are character traits that have to be accounted for and not written off as only good play (even though he is quite good).

It's like Fox's reflector stall, is using it to be unpredictable in the air just good play or is it a character trait? The answer is a little bit of both.

Salem also chases extremely well, I've never seen a ZSS player stay on top of someone quite so well.

I think ZSS as a character benefits more at top levels of play from good tech skill than most other characters, which Salem has also shown.

 

[Tesh]

Techniques such as...?
He uses tether cancelling more than any other ZSS, that's for sure.
His laser planking is good, that was the only thing he's done that I hadn't already seen done by another ZSS player...hell that was the only thing I hadn't done at that point.
His use of jab is very good, as well as his general CQC game.

These are 3 things that I've been trying to implement into my gameplay because of Salem (3 things I 'learned' from Salem)...that and the general "mobility is good"

It's still no reason to get hype over downB footstools, triple dsmash at high percents or using the full jab combo on characters that have to SDI to avoid the 3rd hit.

Well if I had to rank someone as 2nd most flashy ZSS in NA it would be you. However when I watch Nick Riddle, Bio etc. play there is a big difference in what you see and its not surprising that with Nick being the only relevant ZSS for a long time, people don't understand alot these "new" things.

For example I know I've seen you and Bio do some of the flashy things Salem does, but with less success. Obviously the reaction is alot different when you zip around in a bunch of directions then kill yourself. Salem just makes all this stuff look good.

 

[M@v]

I've said it before and I'll say again. People who want to get into commentating should watch some Starcraft 2 commentating from people like Day[9], Artosis, Husky, HD and some others. Idra too if your lucky enough to see him commentate instead of play. Its obviously a different game, but just watch and learn their styles of commentating. The beauty of it is they are all a little different, but all are very professional, and still extremely entertaining.

 

[Luco]

For me, an ideal commentator would be one who captures the match and what each player is doing. This person would be generally objective but also mix in some subjective opinions that people can attempt and think about as possible legitimate strategies. It would be preferable if this person was a high or top level player as well.

That's just how I like it.

 

[infiniteV115]

Well if I had to rank someone as 2nd most flashy ZSS in NA it would be you. However when I watch Nick Riddle, Bio etc. play there is a big difference in what you see and its not surprising that with Nick being the only relevant ZSS for a long time, people don't understand alot these "new" things.

NickRiddle has always been using downB footstools and jab3 against characters that have to SDI it. To be fair I don't think I've ever seen him use dsmash x3 (except in his MM against Will which was AFTER Impact IV, lol) but I still don't think there's any reason to get hype over it.

I mean, to give an example, I think it was fair for the commentators to get hype over the fully charged laser --> downB cancel on the platform --> bair during Salem vs Will at Concentrate II; Nick Riddle (and pretty much no other ZSS) uses the downB cancel like Salem does.

They also praised him for his crossups on Will's shield (same set), which was good, because (again) no other ZSS had been doing things like that at the time.

What they shouldn't have done was call it an 'infinite' when he dsmash locked Falco...or praised him for following it up with an fsmash punish at non-kill percents, doing dsmash x2 --> back roll through the opponent and praising him for 'crossing up' when he got no followup from the dsmash (and literally every single one of our moves is guaranteed out of dsmash LOL) downB footstooling to recover or using jab3...all of these things are either ZSS' BnB or just dumb things that shouldn't be praised at all.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Infinite- That's how commentary is done in sports.

If the commentator is going to give their subjective opinion and make controversial statements, it should be made clear that that they're a high level player. No one wants to hear the opinions of players who haven't achieved anything significant.

I couldn't agree more. If we expect to be taken seriously as a thing the least we could do is have explanatory commentary mixed with anecdotal commentary. Artificial hype is a joke, Falcon is a joke of a character that gets hyped up for doing the same **** Sheik does, and the whole scene is a joke when looking at it through an outsider's lens.

Oh this is a Brawl blog? I don't know **** about that game's commentary.