• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Dealing with the Woes of a Sonic Main

Status
Not open for further replies.

4nace

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
663
Location
Bellevue, WA
How can you guys stand maining Sonic?

Now for me this is a legitimate question. I play games for two reasons - To have fun, and secondarily to win or do well. But as my friendlies are getting to a higher competitive level, its getting harder to do both especially in 2v2, where my sonic stands little chance against a team of 2 metaknights.


Now since I have started playing the game competitively, I have worked mostly on my Sonic game, and learning new things/how to perform well with him against my 3 friends who are also very competitive.

Now my one friend plays Metaknight exclusively, and while he was clearly the worst smasher, now that he mains Metaknight and can use it rather well, he can actually win alot of matches. And now he would never admit to not being as talented at the game.

My other friend also mains Metaknight, but plays Snake, Marth, and occasionally Ike as well. He used to be the best at Melee, and his metaknight is pretty godly, and easily tournament viable. These two friends are always on a team and always play metaknight.

My other friend mains Zelda, but plays Pokemon Trainer and Toon Link as well. His PT is very easy to play against, but his Zelda has been quite successful with the same basic playstyle as when we first got the game. He usually plays on my team

As a Sonic main, I play random alot (especially in free-for-alls), as I'm actually pretty capable with every character, but for serious matches, I play Sonic and Falco.

Now, I love to play, and I love to win, so I usually find myself either 1v1 metaknights of 2v2 with a zelda partner. Now what gets me the most pissed, is how proud these metaknights will be when they get a forward-air, forward-air, shuttle-loop combo off, or a shuttle loop stage spike.

Now here is where the hard part of being a Sonic Main comes in. Usually i have just played alot of matches where I've gotten metaknight up to 50-150% on his last stock but still lost, with the occasional win thrown in. So my 2 responses to his celebration could be:
1) "Yea man that looked really cool! Nice combo!"
2) "You must be so f'ing proud! Being able to destroy my Sonic like that! It must be hard for you!"

Now I hope you can notice the difference between those two comments. Now of course I usually go with 2 unless it was the first game or so and I'm still relaxed and having fun, in which case, my Opponent will say, "Well Metaknight is on the Select Screen. Pick him yourself."

How many times has a Sonic main tried to defend himself in a friendly only to hear,
"Well XTopTierCharacterX is on the Select Screen. Play him yourself or QQ."​

Nothing is more aggravating, as you know that your Sonic can play with him every game and you get caught by that one Metaknight downsmash or Snake up-tilt that kills you at 110% while you break your balls to get them up to 150 before you can gimp them with forward air, or nail that forward smash or down smash.

Usually, my defense is, "Well atleast they are not thinking of Banning my character in tournaments." Which really isnt that relevant at all because Metaknight will always rule Brawl tourneys as long as the game is highly active. The sad part is, that now that they know how to play my sonic well, my Falco or some of my random characters can actually outperform my Sonic often which gets me even more frustrated. Even though I know that its because they have seen my Sonic and know what it can and cant do, its still annoying to play successfully with a Random character over the one that you have put so much time into.

So my question to you Sonic Boards is this.
How do you deal with the losing?


~Embittered Sonic Main after 3 hours of 2v2 vs Dual Metaknight Friendlies.
 

Boxob.

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 6, 2008
Messages
1,463
Location
Long Island, NY.
Don't ****ing make useless topics.

Next time I see you spreading your time wasting ****, I'll rip your face in half with the back of my heel.

That's called a Boxobair you ****ing piece of ****.

:093:
 

MarKO X

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
2,542
Location
Brooklyn
NNID
legendnumberM
3DS FC
2595-2072-2390
Switch FC
531664639998
How I deal with losing?

I learn and I get better. It's as simple as that. Well, actually, it's easier said than done, but that's basically what you need to do.

You can john about the characters all you want, but you know what? At the end of the day, the choice of character is always there. You chose to use Sonic, a character that requires some form of hard work, and your opponent chose MetaKnight, and character that does not require hard work. You can just as easily choose MK, or you can learn ways of beating them. If you john about it, and you continue to hold that thought of "**** this guy is playing MK so he could possibly autowin" in your head, it makes it that much worse for you.

also, learn the matchup. if you learn the matchup and it seems that it will be too much for you as Sonic, then cp.

tl;dr:
also, learn the matchup. if you learn the matchup and it seems that it will be too much for you as Sonic, then cp.
 

Kinzer

Mammy
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
10,397
Location
Las Vegas, NV
NNID
Kinzer
3DS FC
2251-6533-0581
Well, just like old times huh Boxob?

Anyway OP, to put it simply, people who main Sonic accept the fact that he is a terrible character, but still play him anyway. Whether you like it or not, so long as you keep to Sonic, you're going to have it much MUCH harder than that of the your run-of-the-mill scrubby Meta-Knights, who as you said wouldn't dare say that they weren't as talented in this game just because their character compensates for their lack-of skills.

For people who stick around, Sonic to them is fun, and certainly winning with him will in my opinion grant more satisfaction than that of the people who decide to tier-*****. Don't get me wrong, some people are just good with the high-tiers and suck with other characters, that's alright I suppose, but remember that if you play Sonic, you know what you're getting yourself into, especially when you know that you could be better with another character, or at the very least perform the same and still have a much easier time with them.

For me, I have no choice, it's do or die with Sonic, to this point my Sonic IS my best character, and picking other characters would just make me worse. I am quite tired of listening to people and their excuses, so I just don't bother with this point except to get better with my Sonic to show them that I no matter what I will always be the better player. Your opponents are correct though when you could just make your competitive Brawl career much easier and just take the easy way out though, so no johns, unless you rather be a scrub, stoop to their level, and be in denial of what you do.

All I can tell you is just to just quickly embrace everything and just get better, it's just another plateau you'll have to climb if you want to get anywhere with Sonic. I know it's hard but think of it this way.

If you quit now, what's going to happen to all that effort that you put into? You can go take the same path of shame that most people do and quit playing their main just because the game wasn't fun for them that way anymore, or you could do something about it and hold on to what you have, if it is in any way special to you and matters.
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
19,658
Location
Rochester, NY
this is my honest advice,

play Gaw

Gaw is too good in doubles

doubles really doesnt matter as much,dont bother with it, playing sonic isnt going to make you happy if you are lawlnadoed and rofl stomped by MKs all day, i say pick up a better character for doubles. singles you can do what you want, but if sonic isnt cutting it in doubles, theres no shame in switching
 

Chis

Finally a legend
Joined
Aug 26, 2008
Messages
4,797
Location
London, England
NNID
ArcadianPirate
Deal with losing? Well, maybe you're being read too well. Record some matches and watch them over again? Learn the match? Watch how really good Sonics handle Metaknights in the match up thread? Also ask you opponent how they beat you, and an advise they can give you.
 

Tenki

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
6,966
Location
GA
Now here is where the hard part of being a Sonic Main comes in. Usually i have just played alot of matches where I've gotten metaknight up to 50-150% on his last stock but still lost, with the occasional win thrown in. So my 2 responses to his celebration could be:
1) "Yea man that looked really cool! Nice combo!"
2) "You must be so f'ing proud! Being able to destroy my Sonic like that! It must be hard for you!"

...

Now I hope you can notice the difference between those two comments. Now of course I usually go with 2 unless it was the first game or so and I'm still relaxed and having fun, in which case, my Opponent will say, "Well Metaknight is on the Select Screen. Pick him yourself."

How many times has a Sonic main tried to defend himself in a friendly only to hear,
"Well XTopTierCharacterX is on the Select Screen. Play him yourself or QQ."​

Nothing is more aggravating, as you know that your Sonic can play with him every game and you get caught by that one Metaknight downsmash or Snake up-tilt that kills you at 110% while you break your balls to get them up to 150 before you can gimp them with forward air, or nail that forward smash or down smash.

Usually, my defense is, "Well atleast they are not thinking of Banning my character in tournaments." Which really isnt that relevant at all because Metaknight will always rule Brawl tourneys as long as the game is highly active. The sad part is, that now that they know how to play my sonic well, my Falco or some of my random characters can actually outperform my Sonic often which gets me even more frustrated. Even though I know that its because they have seen my Sonic and know what it can and cant do, its still annoying to play successfully with a Random character over the one that you have put so much time into.

So my question to you Sonic Boards is this.
How do you deal with the losing?
When you play against someone who knows how to play against your character, you have to start playing against the player.

You have to be the one baiting the dodges, baiting the attacks, reading the other dude's movements and trying to think in terms of yomi levels instead of simply just "HEY HE MISSED! NOW I'LL B-AIR-" (takes too long, gets shuttle looped) or "AHHA HE LANDED!" (tries to grab, misses and gets spotdodged d-smash).

Try watching replays of your own matches, if not even uploading a video or two so we can try to give you tips on that stuff.


anyway, if I lose against someone, I'd try to get some friendlies in and learn a bit by trying to see what I can do to bait reactions I want, or if I can at least get a read on the person.

that or I complain about Luigi.

but yeah, lol.
 

Orange_Soda_Man

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
539
Location
Boston
Marko and Chis are right. If you want to beat metaknight regularly ... check out the Sonic vs Metaknight matchup discussion. Then get better. Even if you're already good.

the 2v2 project thread might be worth checking too.

Don't ****ing make useless topics.
too good!
 

Terios the Hedgehog

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 25, 2006
Messages
6,452
Location
Shenandoah, PA
How do I deal with the losing? Most of the time I use Sonic I win. If I lost more than half I'd probably tier ***** lol. You're not defending yourself you're johning. If you play someone who can shut you down you usually end up butthurt for a while. You'll get over it.
 

4nace

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
663
Location
Bellevue, WA
this is my honest advice,

play Gaw

Gaw is too good in doubles

doubles really doesnt matter as much,dont bother with it, playing sonic isnt going to make you happy if you are lawlnadoed and rofl stomped by MKs all day, i say pick up a better character for doubles. singles you can do what you want, but if sonic isnt cutting it in doubles, theres no shame in switching
Definitely the most useful advice I have gotten here at Smashboards. Thanks, KID. Game and Watch is pretty easy mode and it'd be refreshing to not have to worry about how my sonic is progressing while playing friendly 2v2s.


However, its not like i don't know the Metaknight match-up or anything like that. Its the simply idea that this game is really unbalanced, and when you have to work twice as hard to be successful as someone playing a different character, it can get frustrating quite quickly.
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
19,658
Location
Rochester, NY
but the thing is, chis is that you (and everyone else in this topic right now) is acting like doubles brawl and singles brawl is the same game, and its not.

in a 1 on 1 situation, sonic can deal with tornado pretty soundly, seeing as he is very mobile and is fast enough to capitalise on the slight lag that mk has.
but tornado (and GaW bair, [the reason for my earlier post] among other easily spammable moves) are 10 times harder to deal with when theres another character that can protect the mk and assure that you cant hit mk in that admittedly small timeframe that you have to hit him. theres also 2 MKs on the field now, so now 1mk can tornado, and the other can tornado to cover the lag on the first guy's. Not to mention that attacks ae much harder to space in doubles, so therefore, your partner can be in such a rush to help you, that they misspace and get sucked into the nado themselves.
There's also the fact that one of the best nado killers sonic has in the homing attack, is completely useless in doubles seeing as its very hard to control who you target.
And than after that, theres the matter that if you angle your shield up to block nado, than that leaves your feet open for the other MK to shield stab you.

point is, fighting mk is a lot different in doubles, and since singles tourneys are more important than doubles tourneys, I say that theres no shame in not playing sonic in doubles. sometimes its just a bad idea...
 

TwinkleToes

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
1,545
Location
MN
personally, I would liek to require all sonic mains to sign a document indicating that they are functionally ********
Isn't that a given?

I don't particularly mind losing as long as I played decently. Everyone loses some of the time; choosing metaknight isn't going to fix that... so if you're losing more than you can tolerate I'd say you chose the wrong character.
 

Camalange

Moderator
BRoomer
Joined
May 12, 2008
Messages
9,420
Location
Seattle
NNID
Camalange
3DS FC
1160-9836-5007
Switch FC
SW-4197-1438-9208
personally, I would liek to require all sonic mains to sign a document indicating that they are functionally ********
Pass that paper on over!

__

But yeah, doubles are whack. You need a good partner who plays a good character, seeing as Sonic is more of a suporting character (in doubles) anyway. I usually just team up with a ROB and I just run around and hit people. Total lulz fest. Sonic should be just racking up damage, avoid getting hit, and be a total ***** and then have the partner get the kills.

If the other team isn't complaining about how fast Sonic is, you're not doin' it right.

:093:
 

MarKO X

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
2,542
Location
Brooklyn
NNID
legendnumberM
3DS FC
2595-2072-2390
Switch FC
531664639998
this man speaks truth.

personally, I would liek to require all sonic mains to sign a document indicating that they are functionally ********
********? No
Insane? Absolutely.
 

Kinzer

Mammy
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
10,397
Location
Las Vegas, NV
NNID
Kinzer
3DS FC
2251-6533-0581
I'm not ******** or insane.

I'm in denial of how bad Sonic truly is.

I'll never find out exactly either lol.
 

JayBee

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 13, 2002
Messages
2,173
Location
Green Hill Zone, MD/VA
NNID
jamesbrownjrva
you dont count anymore
lol

you wised up and stopped that dumbness
wow. i'd do anything to be on Kid's good side.

by the way, im making a predition for you guys: the key for Sonic players to take it to the next level: DDP. If a sonic player ever fully mastered this, and I think you know what I mean when i say that, will revolutionize the sonic meta. i'm just waiting for someone to have the technical skill to spam that **** in matches and mindrape the opponents on youtube.

I'm trying it with all of my chracters, but sonic obviously has the greatest potential out of the cast. you heard it here first.
 

CUsmasher2011

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
370
Location
Creighton University, NE
Losing sucks (obviously), but it keeps me from being complacent about my Sonic. Sometimes when I start losing a lot, I look at videos of really good Sonic players playing against the characters I lose to the most, and see what they have been doing to defeat that character. There is always something that you can improve on, no matter how good your character is.

Esp @ 4nace: You said that you "love to win." Instead of being the player who "loves to win", be the player who "hates to lose." It may not makes much sense when you first look at the statement on paper, but it definitely gives you a different (and, IMO, stronger) mindset going into a match.

And yes, this is my first post on the boards since January....man, does college suck. haha
 

Sagen du Smash

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 26, 2008
Messages
262
Location
California
MK is not that bad. GaW is WAY WAY worse. Just play defensive against MK and you can do reflectivity well. Bair is awesome, use it constantly against MK, it outprioritizes a good number of his attacks. GaW you don't even have that option. Sonics worst matchup by far. Usmash is evil.

Why do I main Sonic? AT's AT's AT's AT's AT's AT's AT's AT's AT's AT's and steak...
 

~TBS~

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Messages
2,097
Location
Rolling around at the speed of Sound, Maryland.
If i lose, i'll try to get in some more matches and try different approaches. If its character specific, i'd read up on the matchup and find some people to play who uses that character. Its somewhat of a responsibility. Sure, I might complain and feel a little down, but i come back, hard. Oh, and it can be harsh to use Sonic. You just gotta step it up and practice more, its a hard road.

@KID
I'm crazy, i'll give you that.

@Kojin
If only I could get up some vids...I got DDP down pack, son. Uthrow >DDP>uthrow>DDP. oh yeah.

@Cam
You made my day with that comment.
 

Kinzer

Mammy
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
10,397
Location
Las Vegas, NV
NNID
Kinzer
3DS FC
2251-6533-0581
I know the Sonic community/boards always keeps me coming back for more Steak. :)
 

Digital Angel

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
304
Don't ****ing make useless topics.

Next time I see you spreading your time wasting ****, I'll rip your face in half with the back of my heel.

That's called a Boxobair you ****ing piece of ****.

:093:
Wow, you are psycho. I feel bad for you. Do you have any real friends?

Yeah, losing with Sonic sucks, meh. If MK ever truly gets banned we'll have a much better shot at doing well in tourneys.
 

ShadowLink84

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Messages
9,007
Location
Middle of nowhere. Myrtle Beach
Wow, you are psycho. I feel bad for you. Do you have any real friends?
*Facedesk*
Just...stop...failing...

Yeah, losing with Sonic sucks, meh. If MK ever truly gets banned we'll have a much better shot at doing well in tourneys.
No we won't because MK is not a terrible matchup at all.
Let alone boxob is right, this topic isn't needed.
 

Digital Angel

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
304
*Facedesk*
Just...stop...failing...



No we won't because MK is not a terrible matchup at all.
Let alone boxob is right, this topic isn't needed.
I only said that because he's obviously a social moron because he needs to use profanity and insults to interact with people. Even on a forum, that is WAY uncalled for.

I can't even say much better about you because you have to use cliche internet lingo to try to make your nonexistent point.
 

ShadowLink84

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Messages
9,007
Location
Middle of nowhere. Myrtle Beach
I only said that because he's obviously a social moron because he needs to use profanity and insults to interact with people. Even on a forum, that is WAY uncalled for.
Except that boxob is one of the more respected members (cause he is awesome but you wouldn't know being a n00b.) and the fact that you continue to hold such a view when you were obviously trolled says a lot about you.
I can't even say much better about you because you have to use cliche internet lingo to try to make your nonexistent point.
Really? So I used an internet meme in order to establish a non-existent point?

Let us analyze things.


*Facedesk*
Just...stop...failing...
This was in response to your reply made towards Boxob.
S the internet meme was used to establish the act that you, falling for Boxob's trolling is something that should not have been fallen for, its too friggin obvious.

That was the first point. Now on to the second part.
No we won't because MK is not a terrible matchup at all.
This is a fact.
let alone that the removal of 1 bad matchup, does not improve Sonic's chances at winning by alot.
Let alone boxob is right, this topic isn't needed.
Which it wasn't.

So I made what? 3 points?
The internet meme being used to further point 1, which was existing and not being established by the point.

TL;DR: Stop FAILING.
Now as much as I would love to continue which probably will be a flame war, I am going to leave it at this.

Can't understand you kid, get off your knees for once. =)
Oh and you are going to Apex right? I am expecting the steak match.
 

Digital Angel

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 20, 2007
Messages
304
Except that boxob is one of the more respected members (cause he is awesome but you wouldn't know being a n00b.) and the fact that you continue to hold such a view when you were obviously trolled says a lot about you.

Really? So I used an internet meme in order to establish a non-existent point?

Let us analyze things.



This was in response to your reply made towards Boxob.
S the internet meme was used to establish the act that you, falling for Boxob's trolling is something that should not have been fallen for, its too friggin obvious.

That was the first point. Now on to the second part.

This is a fact.
let alone that the removal of 1 bad matchup, does not improve Sonic's chances at winning by alot.

Which it wasn't.

So I made what? 3 points?
The internet meme being used to further point 1, which was existing and not being established by the point.

TL;DR: Stop FAILING.
Now as much as I would love to continue which probably will be a flame war, I am going to leave it at this.


Can't understand you kid, get off your knees for once. =)
Oh and you are going to Apex right? I am expecting the steak match.

The removal of Meta knight would clearly cause a meta game shift which could make some of Sonic's better match ups more playable as they don't get rocked by Meta Knight thus making Sonic more playable. It's not like he could get much lower on the tier list as it is, the meta game shift would very likely improve Sonic's standing from an MK ban. I mean, this much should be obvious, but of course you obviously have a bad case of tunnel vision and can't think for yourself. You take other people's views and then try to belittle people with your nerd internet lingo because you can't actually construct your own argument.

Wow, calling me a n00b and trying to out alpha me by responding to like two sentences with some uber post. Attention starved much?

The only reason I called Boxob out is because he's being a moron and not to mention a jack ***. You're going to respond to this too, btw, you are not done. I've seen enough of this to know you wouldn't just stop posting because you need your E-ego stroked; and if you don't post it's only because I anticipated it.

You suck.
 

aeghrur

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 7, 2008
Messages
2,513
Location
Minnesota
^^^i like this person, he makes me giggle
I'll bet that's only cuz he insulted SL, lol.

^above:
Actually, sonic basically has no better match ups, lol.
With MK gone, we'll see more high tiers and while some might be okay like Diddy, the rest are same or worse. Marth is currently 65:35, G&W is 65:35, and Wario is 60:40-65:35 or those are around there anyways. Since MK usually knocks those high tiers out, he actually helps us.

:093:
 

Kinzer

Mammy
Joined
Jun 2, 2008
Messages
10,397
Location
Las Vegas, NV
NNID
Kinzer
3DS FC
2251-6533-0581
I don't really care, if we didn't have MK around, I would be seeing a bit more diversity, but on the flipside Aeghrur is right, our tougher/toughest matchups are free to roam, while with enough experience it might be possible to beat Meta Knight, and with their enormous number you have little to no reason not to have some sort of idea of how it should be played, plus the discuss of Sonic Vs. MK.

And FYI Sonic is to an extent tourney viable even if MK still haunts the tourney scene, he has no get ***** matchups and when people lose it's usually on the part of the player, not Sonic's fault. I love playing Sonic so much just because I know that I always have something to improve on everytime I come back for more.

As for Sonic's metagame, it's developing at a fine rate, better than some other characters could hope for I'll tell you that, getting rid of Meta Knight would do nothing but hamper him since we won't be as prepared for the other matchups as we are Meta Knight.

P.S. you're being a troll and falling for obvious bait. You haven't been around long enough to know that Boxob is just awesome/Boxob because he makes posts like this.
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 22, 2006
Messages
19,658
Location
Rochester, NY
you people are silly.
digital angel is right in the fact that boxob was being a douchebag, and i find it funny that everyone here is defending his douchiness, thats how you know you have power over people.

Only ******* rely on MK to take out their bad matchups, if you are really so afraid of MK so as to say that he helps sonic, you might as well just play MK anyways.

Also, LOL @ SL/aeghrur, I say one thing and you automatically just to conclusions... thats a pretty **** move if you ask me. I thought it was funny just because he pretty much pegged boxob on the head with the, " needs to use profanity and insults to interact with people" comment, and just assume you know Im talking about SL.... not cool man....

Also, where do you get off saying that taking MK out of the picture doesnt increase sonics chances? what if all the MK players were evenly devided between snake and D3, Id say that that increases sonics chances to win by a lot. but you cant just assume who people will play if MK is gone, because may if Mk is gone, some of the people who feel they have to play snake, or wario, or GaW just to survive, may feel more confident playing lower tier characters. you just cant say, its bad because this is automatically going to happen, because you dont know, and anybody who believes that they do know is dumb
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom