Dealing with King DeDeDe. I feel like this match up heavily favors D3.

[atzero]

If I was playing anyone else, I would try to approach from the air, but this is a Little Mac thread so thats out. Approaching from the group is difficult because D3's f-tilt's huge range and the speed and priority of his d-tilt. Couple this with the precise timing the gordo's take to knock away, and D3 can completely dictate the pace and flow of the game.

The only things I have found that work, are an unexpect Jolt Haymaker, and counter.

So how can I get past that stupid hammer?

 

[cot(θ)]

Don't discount approaching from the air - DDD's huge size can make surprise nair approaches viable. Baiting an attack, then rushing in with a dash attack or grab can also work. I don't agree that countering gordos requires precise timing - f-tilt's long, almost-continuous hitbox makes it perfect for this.

Overall though, I think you're right - this matchup is in DDD's favour.

 

[cardboardowl]

I agree. Reflect gordos and use super armor as much as you can.

 

[xJMANx]

Interesting as I have had trouble as well against D3. I like the idea of using nair against him. I'll keep it in mind when I next face a D3.

 

[M@v]

You have to utilize walking more than running so you have time to ftilt gordos he throws at you. Only dash to catch him in endlag of a move. After that, be cautious of DDDcides if he's ahead. You can super abuse his fat size and slow moves to do a lot of damage. Essentially, you can't ultra-rushdown like some matchups. Slow and steady wins the race here.

 

[Doruge]

Doesn't holding A reflect gordos now? They shouldn't be a problem. And yes Nair is the best way to get around his ftilt.

 

[Mode]

Most D3s I fight typically shield and punish you got hitting their shield. Figuring out their shielding cues and patterns and go for those grabs. Also you may want to follow it up with an Up B. If they get smart about dodging the Up B then bait it and see what else you may be able to punish them with.

 

[OmegaSorin]

Super Armor seems viable...The large range can possibly be avoided by sidestepping.... But hm.. I'll have to do some tests.

 

[knuckles213]

here are some vid of me fighting a decent dedede on wifi that knows the match up. I hope this gives you an idea on how to approach dedede
game 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tflfkHcy4zI&feature=youtu.be
game 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWvP_RTFArk&feature=youtu.be
game 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_Rz7f3UHvY&feature=youtu.be

keep in mind this is wifi, with ok connection, there was some lag.
as weird as this sounds, side b and patience is your best friend in gay match ups like this. what I've learned to do is to walk (or run unexpectly) and approach dedede slowly before side Bing (unpredictably) or going in for a shield grab, I didn't think this would work so well, but it does. in this match, don't just charge in unless for bait, punish or, shield grab. also what I learn from play is that you can knock the gordos back at dedede (even scoring a punch in too) so that you dont feel trapped all the time at the legde or trying to land. spot dodge to D-smash works as well, oh and I completely forgot about Up B when dedede is above you float, make sure to punish him with that too.

somebody please make a dedede match up guide.

 

[Doruge]

^ That Dedede was awful, spamming Side-B every 5 seconds isn't going to do you any good if your opponent isn't a complete moron

 

[cot(θ)]

My impression of those videos is that you got the better of him due to lag. Online, he had no chance to shield those side-b's (though a better player would have predicted a few more of them, I think), but IRL, without lag, I think he would shield and punish hard. Even when he did try to do that, he couldn't figure out that you were going to end up behind him, so he still attacked or grabbed forward.

So overall, I think that strategy of yours is heavily punishable.

 

[ndayday]

That Dedede was pretty bad. I watched a bit of each video and in each one he got punished badly for upb onto the stage, not to mention he tossed gordos at you in neutral positions. You could have ftilt or jabbed them back, even dash.
You punished him well enough, but expect a Dedede to not up b onto the stage where he's a sitting duck. Dedede will use a lot more swallow, PROPERLY spaced tilts, and grab combos. he can grab you into an uair well up to 70%. His edge game was lacking, too...he had the right idea with gordos but he shouldn't have been afraid to approach the ledge when you were there (and also should have been short bouncing them imo). Realistically, He would have waited right there and punished whatever you did.

i'll watch the videos for real later, but tose are my initial impressions

 

[KingTeo]

The few D3s I played have been some of the easier matches ever. Baiting out a gordo by dodging back and holding down A will bounce it back as safely as Fox's reflector. In fact baiting out the hammer and hitthing him with a dash attack works just as well.

Maybe the way I beat D3s depends less about what tricks Little Mac as a character has that can beat D3 as a character, and more about being able to read the player efficiently. 383

 

[Quisciens]

Little Mac has his upsides against D3, though. For example, Dedede's large hitbox makes it very easy to hit him below the ledge with your down-smash. This means that every time he jumps back to the ledge, you can continually blast him away again. Without his extra jumps, D3 is horizontally-challenged.

 

[Venks]

I'm in agreement with Dedede being at an advantage against Little Mac. One of the top 8 players in Melbourne, Australia is a Dedede player and I had a lot of trouble against him at first.

A good Dedede will always stay back and force you to approach. Dedede's forward tilt has massive range. If you try to use Little Mac's side smash to go through the attack it till stop just short of reaching Dedede if he properly spaced the hammer. This means you just take damage for free and set yourself up to be grabbed.

Dedede's throws are really good. At lower percents he has true two-hit combos and at mid percents has a really easy time juggling you if he waits out aerial dodge or Slip Counter attempts. Dedede's grab range is massive so you have to be particularly careful when attacking the big guy. Obviously any smash against his shield is going to leave you vulnerable.

Dedede's inhale is just too good. Neutral B can beat it out, but no good Dedede will ever let you get the charge you need. I've managed to hit Dedede with Jolt Haymaker, side smash, and neutral air while being sucked towards him. This happens about 50% of the time and I'm not exactly sure where the proper position to attack from is. And even then there's been a few times I've hit him, but the wind box from the inhale has caused to me go of stage and SD. Honestly I just never approach an inhaling Dedede. I'd rather let the clock run out.

Essentially I play the neutral by trying to stand just outside of Dedede's forward tilt range. If he throws the attack out then I'll dash attack him as he's pulling the hammer back. If I do this enough times then the Dedede will stop relying on forward tilt and then the match is much easier.

 

[Doruge]

Dedede's inhale is just too good. Neutral B can beat it out, but no good Dedede will ever let you get the charge you need. I've managed to hit Dedede with Jolt Haymaker, side smash, and neutral air while being sucked towards him. This happens about 50% of the time and I'm not exactly sure where the proper position to attack from is. And even then there's been a few times I've hit him, but the wind box from the inhale has caused to me go of stage and SD. Honestly I just never approach an inhaling Dedede. I'd rather let the clock run out.

You can easily beat inhale by holding A while you're getting sucked in

 

[Venks]

You can easily beat inhale by holding A while you're getting sucked in

So awesome. This match-up suddenly became so much easier.

 

[Phoenix502]

You can easily beat inhale by holding A while you're getting sucked in

you can't be serious... Jabs beat DDD's inhale??

 

[Daxter]

^ That Dedede was awful, spamming Side-B every 5 seconds isn't going to do you any good if your opponent isn't a complete moron

I guess that makes me a moron. I played a FG D3 6 times, and lost all 6 games. People say to use jabs and tilts to knock Gordos back, but for me, they either miss completely, or don't affect the Gordos at all, particularly jabs. If I attempted to shield or counter them, I'd just get grabbed or tilted instead.

 

[SteadyDisciple]

I guess that makes me a moron. I played a FG D3 6 times, and lost all 6 games. People say to use jabs and tilts to knock Gordos back, but for me, they either miss completely, or don't affect the Gordos at all, particularly jabs. If I attempted to shield or counter them, I'd just get grabbed or tilted instead.

Personally I've had the same issue with the jab failing to reflect Gordos. Ftilts will work fine, but the use of jab to stop them seems to be something that might need a bit more research.

you can't be serious... Jabs beat DDD's inhale??

It's true, works on kirby's as well I think. I know this also works with Ftilt, Fsmash, or Dsmash, and while I've never tested it I imagine reversed Utilt would beat it as well if for some reason D3 is behind you when he's inhaling. Really the only bad option in my experience for punishing inhale is Jolt Haymaker, because even though it will hit him the windboxes will make you move further than normal for a rather frustrating SD if he was anywhere near the edge.

 

[KevN くコ:彡]

I like the to think that fighting DDD is like fighting King Hippo. He's big, he's slow, (he can jump high), but let him get a few hits on you and you can kiss your stock goodbye. It's all about timing and patience. Yes, DDD has the advantage and most of them like to toy with little Mac. But just like everyone else, all it takes is one wrong move and its KO for him.

As Doc Louis would say, "Send this penguin back to Dreamland, baby."

 

[Putuk]

Yes, DDD has the advantage and most of them like to toy with little Mac.

You are all delicious.

 

[TakeYourHeart]

@Son-in-Law Maybe you should transfer this over when it's time for the MU.

Anyway, my experiences indicate this fight is far more in Mac's favor then most of you might think. Yes Dedede has devastating attack power and some very solid spacing tools, but they are all flawed in some fashion.

• Gordo's are wonky and their movement may be tricky to track, but fight enough Dedede's and you'll learn quickly how to reflect them (F-tilt is the most reliable), or how to run under them. You can often get mostly safe Up-B's if he Gordo's mid-air if you're fairly close.
• For the most part if Dedede is Up-B'ing his way back onto the stage floor, you'll won't want to counter or uppercut as the timing is strict. Instead, wait for him to land and exploit his end-lag with a dash-attack for some easy damage. It leaves Dedede in an awkward position at higher percents, where he has to recover for the ledge each time he gets sent of stage or risk a dash attack to the face. He may try to Gordo you while coming back to try to get center stage, but this tactic can be unreliable. This tactic only really works for FD, Battlefield and Halbread (replace dash-attack with Up-B's when he lands on platforms).
• That Jab can stop his inhale isn't that suprising (Mac's Jabs were always a little bit longer then most), but it will be an invaluable tool that limits enemy options. If the Dedede isn't familiar with the MU at all, you can Straight Lunge him for a nice, free 18 damage, so test it if he's holding on Inhale.
• So much of my victories against Dedede come of exploiting end-lag in general, especially their F-Smash. With the right spacing, you can get your own quick F-smash off of it, though again, dash attack is the most reliable. Correct spacing is key.
• Caught in a combo? Counter or go for the frame 1 invincibility Rising Upercut provides. Early kill Up-B's can be a devastating punish to Dedede's attempts to air-combo.

Basically, play patient, play smart. Know when to go in and go out. Exploit his mistakes more then he exploits yours. Play it like Punch-Out!

 

[aurelius_mac]

I always felt this match up heavily favored Little Mac. For an approach, fox trot and dash behind D3 for a grab. When D3 is about to land after an up-b, space it out correctly and you can side-b over the landing's hit box and punish D3's landing lag. Mac's speed should be enough to get around whatever D3 tries to do.

 

[inconspikuous]

a couple things (that i haven't seen mentioned, or maybe i missed):

1. if you're inhaled and spit out, if you rotate (move?) your control stick while you're in the 'star' you will break out much faster than not doing anything (read: closer to the ledge) and after you break out of the star, you always jump and still have a second jump available. i've only tested on FG at low and high percents, so firm confirmation about the control stick break-out would be appreciated. (as a side note, i suggest only moving the stick as opposed to button mashing because if you get caught using an aerial after breaking out you lose valuable recovery time.)

2. i've had problems with jab reflecting gordos as well, but i think the problem is because a) my jab is stale by the time i'm trying it (in other words, at the beginning of the match, you should be able to reflect gordos with infinite jab no problem); or b) the multi jab comes out and that will not reflect the gordo. i've mistimed ftilts online as well, so generally i go for a reverse utilt to reflect gordos.

3. kind of related to ^2., i find that dedede's approach is quite terrible, so make your opponent approach you as much as possible. after throwing a couple gordos and getting them reflected back at him (watch out because they can still reflect it back at you by hitting it), usually they will opt to approach, where imo they are at a disadvantage. most dededes on FG will roll into you and try to dsmash, dtilt, or grab out of it. catch them on their roll with a dsmash. if they run forward you can expect either a dash attack or grab, so be careful with your response as a dash attack will punish your spotdodge if you expected a grab. some dededes will float above you, wait for you to throw out a laggy usmash and then land on you with a nair and cover their landing lag with a dtilt, jab, or utilt. shield is an okay option if that is their game (oos upb?), but watch out for the tomahawk grab. (fun fact: inhale does not beat a shield that covers your hitbox) a good dedede will mix-up their approach with mixed-trajectory gordos/tilts/jabs, taking a little bit of stage control at a time. with that approach, play smarter (read: you're screwed), because a good dedede will be a difficult match.

4. against a good dedede, never try to recover on-stage in front of a charged fsmash with a counter unless you absolutely have the read, because you will get waited out and die at 20%. if possible, it's better to go for the ledge if they're charging the fsmash. (don't get scared of the gordo they throw out to discourage going for the ledge, you can often avoid it)

EDIT: 5. dedede can only jump in midair four times, so if they're floating above you, you can expect something after their fourth midair jump.