Dealing with Hyper-Aggression

[Valkyrie8492]

Hi again. So I've been playing against my friends and at some locals and have really been struggling with dealing with extremely fast, aggressive gameplay. I'm not at the level where I know how to keep myself properly spaced all the time nor do I always know how to stuff someone who's approaching. Normally I can find a way around this by watching some vods of someone like shroomed/kk/m2k but sometimes they don't always have the best specific examples for me to see how they get around it.

I especially seem to struggle with Marth sometimes since his follow ups seem easier than spacies and Sheik's air mobility is ****. The Marth players where I'm at tend to be more aggressive/reckless than players I can watch like The Moon, Pewpewu, etc. I feel like Marth's approaches with fairs and nairs are simple and safe especially since they auto cancel with good timing and can easily be followed with d-tilts. One thing leads to another, and I get a bit frustrated in the match and start blindly running in with fairs and usually just end up eating an aerial/tilt.

So how do I slow everything down and keep the pace of the match to a point where I'm in control? Do I have to give up stage control in favor of defensive posture? How can I work on dealing with simple approaches without getting stuck in shield or being forced to buffer a roll? And lastly, how do I know when it's my turn to be the one who approaches and puts on the pressure?

 

[Jmook11]

If you're asking for vs. Marth tactics, I like to think during the match that you should NEVER be underneath him. You said that you try to throw out a FAir and end up getting hit by a tilt or aerial, and since these Marths are more aggressive, try working on Out Of Shield options. If Marth throws out a tipper, do a wavedash out of shield and grab him! And from there you can do whatever you want! Try to focus on your ground game and your approaches through being on the ground. Dash-Attacks are good because they can launch Marth in the air at a position where you can UAir spam him. The second Marth is ABOVE you, punish the **** out of him!

 

[Scroll]

If you're asking for vs. Marth tactics, I like to think during the match that you should NEVER be underneath him. You said that you try to throw out a Fair and end up getting hit by a tilt or aerial, and since these Marths are more aggressive, try working on Out Of Shield options. If Marth throws out a tipper, do a wavedash out of shield and grab him! And from there you can do whatever you want! Try to focus on your ground game and your approaches through being on the ground. Dash-Attacks are good because they can launch Marth in the air at a position where you can UAir spam him. The second Marth is ABOVE you, punish the **** out of him!

My first priority vs Math is never to be ABOVE him. If you ever played against Marth, that should be selfexplanatory.

Now a good approach vs Marth is run up sheild, WD OoS DA/Boost Grab/JC Grab. Make sure you know what you can do from grab. Other than that stay super evasive and spot when he wants to Fsmash. With proper spacing Fsmash and other grounded moves is marth' own death. Look up his frame data to see which moves has more lag and look for them.
Also, it is fine to do SH Fairs in neutral vs. Marth. But don't expect to hit him ever. It will be one of those "in between needles/bait - things to do"

 

[Jmook11]

My first priority vs Math is never to be ABOVE him. If you ever played against Marth, that should be selfexplanatory.

Now a good approach vs Marth is run up sheild, WD OoS DA/Boost Grab/JC Grab. Make sure you know what you can do from grab. Other than that stay super evasive and spot when he wants to Fsmash. With proper spacing Fsmash and other grounded moves is marth' own death. Look up his frame data to see which moves has more lag and look for them.
Also, it is fine to do SH Fairs in neutral vs. Marth. But don't expect to hit him ever. It will be one of those "in between needles/bait - things to do"

Haha sorry i meant above him not "underneath"

 

[Scroll]

Coming back with a few tips.

So you're Sheik. And you want to slow the match down.
Simple answer: Learn Shino Stall and learn a few from-ledge-options. This will make Marth, and any other opponent, respect you at the ledge.
Yes invincible Ledge Dash Ftilt is your best option, but you don't need it to be effective. I would say practice it endlessly regardless though.

Other options are: Fair, Nair, Needles, empty ledge dash (with or with out shielding).

You may or may not know this, but I am gonna refresh your memory anyway.
You will want to let go of the ledge on the frame Sheik hangs completely vertical after the Shino Stall. This will give you the maximum amount of invincibility in your action towards the stage.

Other than that you can always improve your ground and platform mobility.
A simple way to practice this is to have a level 9 CPU and let it chase you around a given stage. Then set a personal goal like: "Don't get hit for 1 minute". Try and beat your personal record again and again.
You master this discipline when you don't get hit, ever, in a whole session (30 minutes?).
Then you will be able to slow the match down effectively at any time you want.

For ques as to when you're GO is anytime you see Marth is gonna do a laggy move or messes up anything. Smash attacks, rolls, grabs, air dodges and counter comes to mind.

Good luck

 

[Valkyrie8492]

Thanks for the help guys. I think I'll do better with this information in mind. And I had no idea invincible ledgedash carried to an f-tilt... I usually would just shield or buffer a roll after getting up. I'll have to practice that. Looks like I'll need to work on my ground spacing too if I'm not in the air so much. Either way this is super helpful, Marth has always been a little more frustrating for me than some of the other characters.