Dare I say it? Are there techniques that we are glad or would be glad to see gone?

[TheFifthMan]

Okay, now, admit it. I know all you Link players despise getting chaingrabbed zero to death out of a stock, and, let's face it, everyone hates getting waveshined off the edge. I know a lot of us are butthurt (including myself, but certainly less than others) about wavedashing, reverse neutral B, and other Melee techs being gone, but I know that at least some of us (especially those of us that were forced to play high tier to be competitive) would love to see some stuff gone.

I personally switched fully to Marth because my Link got ***** by everyone when i pulled him out at a Sheik happy tourney; everyone would go "Lol chaingrab!" and proceed to gimp my stocks. At the time, that was my only character, so my defeat should be fairly obvious. Flash forward some months later to the Purdue Biweeklies, and I think I have enough mastery of advanced tech to fight with Link again. I pull him out and get lollercoaster chaingrabbed out of my stocks. Mind you, this was Tyler Ingram that 4-stocked me, so I wasn't exactly insulted. Oh well. I would personally be glad that abusable chaingrabbing is gone.

Anything else that you would be or are glad to see gone?

 

[Aminar]

Chaingrabbing, wobbling, Shinespiking, attacks that send people at horizontal and downward angles(or just make these less deadly). Otherwise nope. Except other stuff that even with DI is impossible to escape.

 

[Hydde]

I spammed chaingrabbing against space animals but i have to admit that it was kind of cheap. Heck most of the top tier moves are cheap in some way.

If they get fixed, then good.

 

[amost]

actually it's good to see as many techniques go as possible it levels the playing field for everyone again.

 

[bluekitsune13]

actually it's good to see as many techniques go as possible it levels the playing field for everyone again.

I totally agree. I don't want SSB to turn into a Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat, where the person with the best memory and best finger speed wins. That is why I love Smash. It simplifies everything! Don't forget, sometimes the simplest games are the most fun. One of my favorite games Kirby's Air Ride uses a joystick and 1 button. I can play one handed!

The only things that I hope are gone for good are the glitches. Wavedashing is the big one, L-Cancelling is negotiable though, since it's similar to teching. Call me a noob all you want. I'm just not interested in playing "advanced," and in my own selfish way I'm glad they removed some of these techs.

 

[Hydde]

I reallly loved WD, sadly it was not fair for everyone....

 

[Takalth]

Chaingrabbing, wobbling, Shinespiking, attacks that send people at horizontal and downward angles(or just make these less deadly). Otherwise nope. Except other stuff that even with DI is impossible to escape.

I mostly agree. I think Shinespiking is cool(no, I don't play Fox. Yes, I have played against good shine-spikers), but it seemed overpowered because the character who could do it would be at the top even without it.

Also, moves that send people at deadly angles are a good thing as long as they're hard to pull off (Pika's tailspike, for example).

Chaingrabbing, wobbling, and easy sharp angle kills, though, I'll definitely agree with.

 

[Cronius]

I reallly loved WD, sadly it was not fair for everyone....

I think wavedashing made things more fair for most people. Characters like Samus who had super-slow rolls had, in most cases, a good wavedash. And I hate to say this, but chaingrabbing is still in. Mario's downthrow can chaingrab, although I don't know to what percentage.

As for AT's I won't miss? Waveshining and wobbling, but I think everyone can agree that wobbling is cheap.

 

[KirbySSB]

wobbling was the most ******** thing in melee. super ganks while sometimes are cool were pretty ridiculous and i'm glad it's harder to "edge-gay" people now

 

[Break]

It's a good thing that a lot of the old advanced techniques are gone. The process of finding/inventing of new techniques is always exciting; we'll get to experience it all over again! It's a new game, thus it should rightly have new advanced techniques just waiting to be discovered/invented.

 

[drengist]

Ice Climbers' infinite grab, Fox's/Falco's infinite shine, Falco's drill kick, DK's B-punch, Samus' blast... Generally all those techniques that are unbalanced and unfair for 1 vs. 1. I don't like it when you can't do anything but watch your character getting punished. Every technique should have a counter - in Melee it isn't always the case.

 

[UltimateShinigami]

um, excuse me but... you all know there is still a chance wobbling will be in right? we haven't gotten much info on the IC's since their confirmation. even if it is in, it will probably get banned in tourneys like it is in some places now

but yeah, i'm glad to see waveshine out, but as some1 already said, characters with slow rolls like samus will be slightly nerfed without WD. fox has actually been one of my favorite characters since the first smash bros, I only gave him up in melee because i always try not to pick the "best" or the "main" character. When i found out about advanced play and tiers, i gave him up and switched to IC's for more challenge and less mainstreamity (if that's a word)

 

[Nike]

actually it's good to see as many techniques go as possible it levels the playing field for everyone again.

I totally agree. I don't want SSB to turn into a Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat, where the person with the best memory and best finger speed wins. That is why I love Smash. It simplifies everything! Don't forget, sometimes the simplest games are the most fun. One of my favorite games Kirby's Air Ride uses a joystick and 1 button. I can play one handed!

The only things that I hope are gone for good are the glitches. Wavedashing is the big one, L-Cancelling is negotiable though, since it's similar to teching. Call me a noob all you want. I'm just not interested in playing "advanced," and in my own selfish way I'm glad they removed some of these techs.

it's comments like these that make me remember y i never go into brawl discussion. i really can't believe there are people on this earth who think this way.

if u want a game with a bunch of nintendo characters, that u can enjoy with friends and the winner will always be a random person go get urself a copy of mario party. advanced techs are a large part of y melee has enjoyed such popularity and replay value. if u don't wanna use them fine, but remember that these are what made melee a reknowned game. i know without them i would have stopped playing years ago.

to the original question i hope chaingrabbing and wobbling are gone.

 

[Nekorion]

advanced techs are a large part of y melee has enjoyed such popularity and replay value. if u don't wanna use them fine, but remember that these are what made melee a reknowned game. i know without them i would have stopped playing years ago.

melee is a reknown game because its enjoyable, not because its deep. People play regardless of whether or not they even KNOW about advance techs.

id be glad to see air dodging fleshed out in the way they have it right now. the whole dodge in a direction and fall helplessly to the ground thing made air dodging worthless to me. I'm liking where brawl is headed.
wobbling gone plz

odd one here, but moon walking i want gone.

 

[:034:]

I'd love to see Wavedashing out. Hey... Wait a minute...

All seriousness aside, though, there aren't really any techniques that I think should get out. Mastery of techniques is what it's about, right? And about Link getting chaingrabbed... Well, pick a different character.

 

[Break]

D*amn it people! The word is renown. Reknown is NOT a word.

 

[Nekorion]

o no. Speling well b da end ov us!

Seek to be understood. Not to be perfect.

 

[amost]

it's comments like these that make me remember y i never go into brawl discussion. i really can't believe there are people on this earth who think this way.

if u want a game with a bunch of nintendo characters, that u can enjoy with friends and the winner will always be a random person go get urself a copy of mario party. advanced techs are a large part of y melee has enjoyed such popularity and replay value. if u don't wanna use them fine, but remember that these are what made melee a reknowned game. i know without them i would have stopped playing years ago.

to the original question i hope chaingrabbing and wobbling are gone.

no no no, dude. Advanced techs are good. I'm just hoping for a load of new ones instead of the old. Like a poster stated somewhere above, the process of finding new techs is part of the fun, don't you agree? if all the techs were in, then we'd already know how to play this game to the max...

 

[amost]

I apologize for not making myself clear in my first post. I didn't mean that there should be no advanced techs, just none of the ones that were in melee. Let's find new ones

 

[Mambo]

Advanced techs usually walk a fine line between cheap and broken. Anything that you can't get out of once in is lame. No fun. But wavedashing is fine though. I just hope any insta-kill techs are gone or banned.

 

[Rebel581]

Advanced techs usually walk a fine line between cheap and broken. Anything that you can't get out of once in is lame. No fun. But wavedashing is fine though. I just hope any insta-kill techs are gone or banned.

I'm sorry, but here's the simplest solution to your problem. Get better at the game. Don't get into the position where you can get insta-killed. AKA stop sucking.

Really, the only technique I would care to see gone is... nothing actually. I just want it more balanced. Give the bottom tier characters buffs without hurting the top tier characters too much. Although I could live with them making Marth's spike a meteor smash, and I'd probably support the decision.

But the people who go "I don't want any advanced techniques because then it levels the playing field" are under the idea that you should cater to the lowest common denominator. Just because you don't want to spend time to bring the game to another level, doesn't mean we don't want to.

And plus, we'll still beat you. If you haven't figured it out, smash is a game where the smarter player wins.

And whoever is glad wavedashing is out can go **** a tree. That was seriously my favorite technique in Melee. It was fun to do.

 

[jambre]

I think infinates should be removed if they can
instant kills should be hard to do or at least easy to punish.
Removing the fair advanced techs will do no good to the game.

 

[RedKnight]

Im ok with wavedash being gone because I never mastered it anyways (I can do it, I just can't apply it)

 

[Nike]

no no no, dude. Advanced techs are good. I'm just hoping for a load of new ones instead of the old. Like a poster stated somewhere above, the process of finding new techs is part of the fun, don't you agree? if all the techs were in, then we'd already know how to play this game to the max...

I apologize for not making myself clear in my first post. I didn't mean that there should be no advanced techs, just none of the ones that were in melee. Let's find new ones

no need to apologize, but thanks for clearing that up. i do agree with u, new techs level the playing field again and also they keep the game fresh so that it feels like a new game. Nintendo can (and did) take wavedashing out for all i care, just include something of equal caliber to replace it. i don't really care if brawl is like melee or not as long is it is a deep game that i'll be able to enjoy for longer than a couple of months.

although i don't think a tech such as lag canceling should be removed as it's been in since ssb64 and is a basic part of what smash bros. is.

melee is a reknown game because its enjoyable, not because its deep. People play regardless of whether or not they even KNOW about advance techs.

SSB64: a popular game with a few advanced techs that sold well with scattered tournaments every so often.

SSBM: an incredibly deep game that sold very well, spawned an internet site with over 70,000 members, has had mlg tournaments, and continues to this day (6 years after it's release) to have tournaments around the world and people still discussing the metagame.

see a differnce now? thought so.

 

[Salaad]

I would've gotten bored of Melee if it wasn't for advanced techs. I remeber all people used to do was spam one attack then after one match they would get bored. This is how the majority of the consumers play..I'm hoping for new advanced techs.

 

[miller483]

I'm glad that the freefall after an air dodge is gone.

 

[Pythag]

I'm glad that a lot of these techniques are gone. Now I can bust out DK and no get demolished by some noob that just learned how to waveshine.
Frustration!

 

[Mama]

This thread fails simply because its based on the principle "I suck so I'll be happy if they make everyone else suck so that we can all be weak together"

1) No one forces you to play a high tier character in order to compete. Although you'd be at a disadvantage using your head to counter things is always an option.

Rather than wanting to do away with the things that beat you why not simply balance things out? Thats another mental barrier people are going to have to face other wise Brawl will be like Melee 2.0 in the sense that people will constantly gripe over things they find cheap...

2) @anyone (mambo) who thinks that once you get into a combo and can't get out is lame/cheap/no fun.

How can you sit there and call an effective strategy cheap? Fyi people who play well play to win. That means they don't hinder themselves by having a false sense of unfairness. If a chain grab works then use it. If you can combo someone off the stage and gimp them then do that too. Play to win. Its fun when you can play at the best of your abilities and it feels good to win knowing you went all out.

Lastly, don't expect things to be more fair in Brawl simply based on the absence of a few things. I bet Metaknight is capable of carrying people to their doom using his aerial combos and multiple jumps.

But I wont hijack your thread... so if theres anything I'm glad to see gone it'd be a botched WD off the stage. Although I'm pretty sure Peach'll be able to wavedash in Brawl (auto float +aerial = slide) I don't think I'll need it nor do I think it would result in death

 

[Red Exodus]

There aren't any I can think of, most of them were fair enough to slide by. Wobbling is a pretty dangerous one that probably should be out, other than that there isn't anything I have a problem with.

 

[UltimateShinigami]

o no. Speling well b da end ov us!

Seek to be understood. Not to be perfect.

no, he's right. its that exact attitude that makes dozens of other countries turn out more intelligent people than the U.S. he was nicely telling you how to spell the word and you reply with "i'd rather look like a moron because people get the point" how about trying to learn something and admit when you're wrong instead of defending your idiocy because you seem to have a problem with learning

 

[raptorbaby10]

SSB64: a popular game with a few advanced techs that sold well with scattered tournaments every so often.

SSBM: an incredibly deep game that sold very well, spawned an internet site with over 70,000 members, has had mlg tournaments, and continues to this day (6 years after it's release) to have tournaments around the world and people still discussing the metagame.

see a differnce now? thought so.

Well, first, to be fair, SSB64 was released a bit near the end of the lifetime of the 64. It only lasted for about 2 years before Melee was released. Compare that the the almost 8 years Melee has had.

Second, Melee has sold around 8 million copies and its already been said that the hardcore audience or whatever accounts for about 1% of that.

Third, the 70 000 or so people you speak of on the SmashBoards are NOT all people interested in metagame and what not. Half of them, give or take, are not interested in the advanced techs. Most people who picked up Melee wont even know what metagame is

The main point though is that Melee is so successful because of that fact that it has lasted longer than its predecessor, was marketed WAY more than SSB64, and was also the game to have at the beginning of the GC's life cycle. Obviously, that popularity still lives on.

 

[Red Exodus]

Melee isn't very fun if you play it the same way for 4-5 years. I was a casual for that long and I got tired of Melee by the 4 year mark with short cravings for Melee in between. Without this hardcore side I would not be interested in Melee at all.

 

[DSB]

1. Waveshining (Fox is my main)
2. Chaingrabbing (Marth is my secondary main)
3. Wobbling

 

[Salaad]

Melee isn't very fun if you play it the same way for 4-5 years. I was a casual for that long and I got tired of Melee by the 4 year mark with short cravings for Melee in between. Without this hardcore side I would not be interested in Melee at all.

My same exact story.

 

[NES n00b]

This seems like a thread where people say "I am glad that this technique is gone because I cannot get past it or I am not good enough." Exactly what Mama.

No johns people. There should be a sticky thread up that says no johns come Brawl.

 

[amost]

actually, I think the point of this thread was to discuss _different_ techniques that we could learn from a new game, as opposed to this being melee 2.0

I'm under the impression that many people are reading the first few posts and thinking that we're advocating taking advanced techniques out all together, which is totally not the case

 

[SeriousWB]

I'm still a casual Melee player after all this time and still love it...

I'm glad the techniques have changed in general

This seems like a thread where people say "I am glad that this technique is gone because I cannot get past it or I am not good enough." Exactly what Mama.

No johns people. There should be a sticky thread up that says no johns come Brawl.

Goes both ways, this seems like a thread where people say "I hate that this technique is gone because I can't be bothered to put effort into getting better or I shouldn't have to try to get good at this game"

 

[Zone]

I'm still a casual Melee player after all this time and still love it...

I'm glad the techniques have changed in general



Goes both ways, this seems like a thread where people say "I hate that this technique is gone because I can't be bothered to put effort into getting better or I shouldn't have to try to get good at this game"

Although it's clear They do bother to get better considering they use the advance techs and learned them. Since they took the effort to learn them from SSB to SSBM change or w/e. They probably are going to practice any new/different brawl techs as well.

They are just sad to see them gone, because alot of advanced techs made the game more fun for them, Or it gave the game depth, and they fear the depth is gone.

---- Different note----

I don't see how wavedashing is a problem or it's cheap. Except when it's used in infinites for fox. But thus is the beauty of counter picking. Not all characters get waveshined, And if you planned on winning most people carrying some secondary characters to back up their mains weakness. If you like to stick to one character only and try to win? Go ahead, but know that's limiting yourself to victory. And the guys who don't limit themselves despite their favorite characters, win.

it's all about your goals.

Wouldn't it be nice to keep the waveshine, but have a counter to it? As in if you time it right you can smash DI out of shine. OR if you synch timing l's with IC's wobble with their jabs. It can get you out with good timing.

See what I mean?

IF you leave the advance techs in, and just create a counter for it(That isn't WAY WAY too ez to do otherwise it renders the technique useless) it can keep the game deep, and make the broken things not so broken. But still accessible to those who enjoy it. and gives least fortunate chars more ofa chance.

 

[Nike]

Well, first, to be fair, SSB64 was released a bit near the end of the lifetime of the 64. It only lasted for about 2 years before Melee was released. Compare that the the almost 8 years Melee has had.

usually the cycle goes game comes out, sequel comes out, sequel is better and improved from original (not just graphics wise), people play sequel and leave behind original. this held true for melee as it was on all levels a better game than ssb64. if brawl is a shallow game in terms of technique people will play it for maybe a year, get bored, then revert back to melee or not smash at all.

Second, Melee has sold around 8 million copies and its already been said that the hardcore audience or whatever accounts for about 1% of that.

we're the vocal minority. i'm just saying that if melee was as dumbed down as brawl appears to be right now u can say goodbye to tournaments every weekend and SWF as u know it.

Third, the 70 000 or so people you speak of on the SmashBoards are NOT all people interested in metagame and what not. Half of them, give or take, are not interested in the advanced techs. Most people who picked up Melee wont even know what metagame is

i never said all the people were, but if u going that way then also u have to count people who know about the metagame, but don't have accounts on the site. i'm not saying that's a large number though.

The main point though is that Melee is so successful because of that fact that it has lasted longer than its predecessor, was marketed WAY more than SSB64, and was also the game to have at the beginning of the GC's life cycle. Obviously, that popularity still lives on.

dumbing down brawl will not only effect the pros, but it will effect everyone who plays. the pros will still beat out the nubs with mindgames, so the only loser here is the lifetime of brawl.

 

[TheFifthMan]

Hmm... I should clarify. I wanted to make this thread because I know that there are techniques that make watching and playing matches boring. I agree with "Don't get hit," and if I get infinte-shined or waveshine->shinespiked, chaingrabbed 0 to death, shine->Daired, or Wobbled, I really don't care; I went into those matches wanting to compete and to prove myself.

However, as an audience member, or even the victim of some highly advanced techniques, you can't lie to me and say that watching someone get wobbled or Sheik chaingrabbed is visually appealing.

I don't mind getting infinite shined to death or falcoshined->daired or Ken-comboed, at least those kills look cool, you know? And even then those kills get old fast. Eventually, even these somewhat high technical combos simply becomes like watching John Cena fight: "Same old ****!" and then what?

I'm not saying advanced techniques are bad; they're awesome, and they make a fight more interesting to watch. I love watching Foxes wavedash, dashdance, and triangle jump in and out of a Sheik's grab range. I love when Marth dittos dance and wavedash with each other to fight for a grab, tipper or Ken Combo. I love watching people weave in and out of Falco's SHL. (But most of all, I love when low tier beats the holy hell out of Sheik ^_^) Smash fighting, at its best, is fast, crazy, and visually appealing. Wobbling and chaingrabbing aesthetically ruin it.

EDIT: Whee 100 posts ^_^