Custom Stage Project

[rorycosgrove]

Hello all. Yes, I'm not the first or the only person to have said it, but many players have spoken about the prospect of a "Custom Stage Project," to do for custom stages what the massively successful Custom Moveset Project accomplished for custom specials in Smash 4. I'm creating this thread to gather and organize the focus on this specific goal into one place where we can define a concrete way to go about doing this.

So what is the "Custom Stage Project?" The goal here is to agree on standardized Custom Stages that can (and SHOULD) be legalized for tournaments, discuss the best uses for them on stage lists, and how to organize them on multiple Wii U setups.

Yes that's still very general. Legalized for which tournaments? Which stages should be used? All of the questions you may have can be discussed in this thread as we forge ahead with this project, although I may answer many of them as you read on.

Where do we start? So especially with the Wii U Smash's "free draw" stage builder, the possibilities for Custom Stages are virtually endless, so how do we decide which stages are worthy of being tournament-legal? Well the best way to start (as many already have) is by rebuilding existing Smash stages. Specifically those that were either legal in previous games and removed from Smash for Wii U, and static versions of those that have obtrusive hazards or transformations but viable neutral forms. Through the new Stage Builder it's possible to recreate all of these stages either perfectly or extremely closely, acceptably enough for the community to embrace all of them in competitive play.

Here are a few strong examples, many of which I've seen recreated already:

• Pokemon Stadium
• Wario Ware
• Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
• Yoshi's Story (Melee)
• Dreamland
• Fountain of Dreams
• Green Hill Zone (PM)

The first 3 would be the easiest to bring into the game at first, in my opinion.

So in the recent Nintendo Direct it was confirmed that the next Smash Wii U patch will allow players to share Custom Stages between Wii Us. This essentially eradicates the major argument against using Custom Stages in tournaments. Whether it be through Miiverse or simply by sharing with Nintendo Network friends, spreading stages with other players will be very doable and quite easy I believe. Should the latter be the scenario, I will personally provide Custom Stages to everyone once a decision has been made on which should be used.

So now it's up to you guys to share your designs, and we can use polls to determine the most accurate renditions of each stage. It's completely open to discussion, but for the time being I think we should focus on Pokemon Stadium, Wario Ware, and Yoshi's Island, as a way to test a selection of Custom Stages in tournaments.

Who am I? In the Smash community I go by G5|CoZmos. I'm a T.O, a player, and founder and co-manager of Game5 Smash: a growing Smash organization based in New York. My crew hosts tournaments at 3 different venues, with turnouts of over 40 entrants, featuring notable competitive players such as iQHQ XFiRE|Vinnie and John Numbers. We are willing and prepared to test this project out at all of our events and strongly encourage others to join us.

Conclusion: I realize that this post could use better organizing. I have many thoughts and ideas regarding this subject and I did my best to lay them out here for everyone, and I hope we can all make progress with the Custom Stage Project by discussing this together!

NOTE: this is NOT a place to share everyone's Custom Stage designs. There is already a thread for that purpose. The only designs that should be shared here are potential contenders for the most accurate recreation of past (or hazardous) stages.

UPDATE 4/17/15: So we can share stages very easily through Miiverse. Anyone who has stages that fit the criteria mentioned please upload them to Miiverse with "CSP" and the name of the stage and follow Username: rorycosgrove (https://miiverse.nintendo.net/users/rorycosgrove/empathies) and I will use this Miiverse account to share the stages that we plan to use for tournaments and any stages that anyone else wants using my Miiverse accounts "Yeah!" list.

UPDATE 4/20/15: Now that we have the sharing feature figured out, I'd like to start enlisting BUILDERS and TESTERS to the project. Please inquire if you'd like to get involved!

BUILDERS:
@ Smearglangelo
@ Rifick
@hell-dew
@KingofSarus
@ ParanoidDrone
@Conda
@clydeaker
@VanillaThunderbolt
@Geno9999
@ DC| Reset Bomb Jigglypuff
@krazyzyko

TESTERS:
@ FS Fantom
@ Rynhardt
@ Metal B
@SapphSabre777
@Balgorxz
@ MajorMajora

UPDATE 4/23/15: Thanks to the great work of our builders and testers (notably builder @ Smearglangelo and testers @ FS Fantom and @ Rynhardt ) we have 2 stages ready for tournament use. I will link them and encourage everyone to download once we get them finalized

UPDATE 5/19/15: We now have 3, well tested, balanced tournament-ready stages, courtesy of builder @ Smearglangelo . They are:

• CSP WarioWare Inc.
• CSP Pokemon Stadium
• CSP Yoshi's Island (Brawl)

Here are the download instructions:
1. Open Miiverse on your Wii U
2. Click "Activity Feed"
3. Click "Search Users" and type in "rorycosgrove"
4. Click on the account from the search results, then click "Activities"
5. Click "Yeahs" and you'll find the list of stages
6. Download ONLY the stages that say "Custom Stage Project" in the description by clicking on the post and clicking "Start." This will open Smash and download the stage
7. Repeat step 6 for all CSP stages. The process should take approximately 10 minutes

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Setting aside the fact that I remain unconvinced of the necessity of widespread adoption of custom stages until such time as it's been shown that the already existing stage list is inadequate for whatever reason, I would prefer the custom stages be built with a firm design goal in mind rather than simply copying old layouts. That is to say, instead of "let's remake Pokemon Stadium," I think "let's make a stage that emphasizes platform combos" would ultimately be more productive.

 

[404House]

Meh...I'm in favor of it, except for one thing:

It just seems pointless to have ~20 stages or something. If it's like 3 custom stages, okay, cool. That works. But otherwise. I'm not on board.

(can't wait until custom stage sharing comes out, i spent 10 minutes trying to remake a level but my hand wasnt straight enough)

 

[ElectroSaber]

Yeah, I'm thinking 3-5 custom stages. Any more is excessive IMO

 

[Rifick]

I like the sound of this, but I think limiting the selection to remakes would be a poor way to kick off the update.
I think if stages are going to be played competitively, on stream they should be the ones that represent the best what our community is capable of in both gameplay and aesthetic design, while still catering to a competitive audience. Remake or not.

 

[SilverhandX]

I think this is great and I've wanted this for competitive since the stage builder was announced. I think it's important though that we don't just throw in a lot of extra stages. Sure, it's fun to remake and play these old stages for nostalgia, but I think each and every custom stage we consider adding should be discussed both in its viability in previous games and what it brings to Smash 4 that the current legal stage pool doesn't already have.

Another thing that I think should be mentioned is that I see a LOT of custom stages which don't consider blast zones at all. Blast zones are very important in competitive play and are one of the more defining things about a stage. These should be tested a lot and possibly adjusted on any stages we are going to include for competitive play.

 

[Smearglangelo]

Custom stages are a good idea, but it would be pointless to have stages that are too similar to the current legal stages. Every legal custom stage should bring something unique to the table that sets them apart from the other legal stages.

 

[rorycosgrove]

Great input from everyone! I agree that we should seek to go beyond remakes, that's why I've merely suggested this as a starting point. I feel we need to start safely with simple, familiar stages just to test the concept of custom stages in tournaments in general before we bring things out that no one has seen before. But yes, I'm all for the creativity being a huge part if this kicks off. Personally though, I don't mind if the Custom Stages don't differ too much from existing stages. To me the application in tournaments should simply offer more variety (the lack of which is something that many players have complained about, myself included) without having to sacrifice them being fair, balanced stages. Cuz honestly in Smash 4 we only have 3 truly neutral stages (BF, FD, and SV). I'd like for there to be more options with simple layouts that can refresh the experience of competitive play without stage interference. When the community finds ways to maintain these standards while incorporating creativity, I think this Project will really shine. Until then I'm all for testing with simple stages that add variety.

And yes, blastzones are extremely important! This is one of the many reasons we need to poll and test any stage before using in tournaments. At the same time as this can ruin potentially viable stages, I think if used correctly, differing blastzones can offer an extra level of variety to stages (ie Yoshi's in Melee compared to Dreamland)

 

[Metal B]

I had a similar thread in production, but wanted to wait for how Nintendo actually manages the Custom Sharing aspect. The future of Costume Stages depends on how Nintendo will finally implement it.

In difference to you i thave different stand-point on custom stages: I want them to replace all of the normal stages.
My argument is the added control of the scene and true constants, which could be possible with this step. So players can always trust on basic facts, like at which point a characters KOes from which part of the stage, since it could be all streamlined. This doesn't mean, that every stage need to be completely similar, but we can clearly define the differences and make them clear for everybody. My pipe dream are also true Counter-Pick Stages for every character, so that every Character Community has his own home base.

I would start this project by finding a clear base, guidelines and rules. Then we could expend on them and actually create stages.

 

[Linq]

it would be pointless to have stages that are too similar to the current legal stages.

I don't know, I think a Lylat Cruise that didn't have any tilting shenanigans would be welcomed by the majority of the community with open arms.
A tournament I watched recently allowed the 8 player version of Norfair, though this required switching modes and adding an additional stock and minute to the clock to kill off the CPUs. An identical custom version would make this faster, and perhaps TO's would be more likely to make that stage playable rather than banning it because of the time it takes.

 

[Mmeaninglessnamee]

A tournament I watched recently allowed the 8 player version of Norfair... ...An identical custom version

It's impossible to recreate Norfair in stage builder, at least as-of now. you cannot set a grabable ledge on a drop through platform.

Anyway, I also would like new maps if custom stages would be a thing. As people have said above, the fixed blastzones would make remakes really not the same anyway.

 

[Skarfelt]

I feel like the current stage list faces a problem in Game 1 that custom stages could fix. 3 stages gives too much power to Sheik/Sonic due to SV/FD's flat nature. There isn't really a suitable fifth starter and the FLSS system with 9/13 stages takes too long/is too confusing for people to remember off the top of their head/results in people just gentleman'ing to SV anyway (as a disclaimer, I actually like FLSS a lot but I feel it's ultimately unproductive. An extra stage in the starter list that encourages platform use would be an excellent way of resolving this issue.

All that said, the biggest problem with using custom stages is the entry barrier it presents. TOs would have to connect each Wii U to Wifi to download the stages, first of all, but the main issue would be new players coming into a tournament for the first time. Seeing customs for the first time and potentially getting bodied by cheese is one thing but being asked to play on a stage they've literally never touched before? It's a bit more questionable. Honestly, I respect that I'm kind of in the minority believing our current stage list is flawed so I feel we shouldn't be encouraging custom stages unless a majority believes there's a problem we need to address - kind of like a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

 

[Raijinken]

Setting aside the fact that I remain unconvinced of the necessity of widespread adoption of custom stages until such time as it's been shown that the already existing stage list is inadequate for whatever reason, I would prefer the custom stages be built with a firm design goal in mind rather than simply copying old layouts. That is to say, instead of "let's remake Pokemon Stadium," I think "let's make a stage that emphasizes platform combos" would ultimately be more productive.

I second this, but in the event that custom stage adoption becomes more likely than simply widening our existing stagelists, I will fully support this project.

 

[rorycosgrove]

Once again great input guys! Although I respect every opinion, I think at this point the sole purpose of this discussion should be to move forward with this project. So while those opposed to it have raised many decent points, it serves no purpose to argue against it here. I'm going through with this, and I'd like to isolate and work with those who agree. Keep in mind I'm in no way discouraging discussion on problems that we can work around, just overall oppositions are pointless in this thread.

So what's the next step? Although I still don't want this to become just another thread for sharing Custom Stage designs, I think we should go ahead and start voting on designs. If, and ONLY if, you TRULY believe that a stage is worthy and viable for tournament use, AND you have the experience and knowledge to back this belief, you may post your designs here. I will take those that meet these criteria and compile them into a poll to determine which the community favors most, and those will be a good start to test in tournaments. At the same time, every T.O. may have different opinions on which to use - while this may steer us away from a universal list at first, it will allow us to acquire data on more of the stages to get closer to a list we can all agree on in the long run (reasonably).

 

[Rifick]

I'm glad you're committed to this. Being a stage editor main, I got the impression the scepticism was to strong through the Smash community for this type of change to work.

I am unfortunately not a competitive smash player. I have an decent understanding of what makes a stage competitive and what to avoid, but have been seeking someone more qualified to help by consulting my competitive projects:
http://imgur.com/a/CkjMe
All of witch are either ready to go, or a tweak or two away. (Maybe except that last one)

I'm not sure what your time line is like, but I'll definitely make an attempt at an aesthetically pleasing remake from your list whithen the next few days.

If you're interested in any of the stages posted above, it wouldn't take long to make the appropriate changes to get them game ready.

Good luck with the project. I hope it pans out.

 

[rorycosgrove]

I'm glad you're committed to this. Being a stage editor main, I got the impression the scepticism was to strong through the Smash community for this type of change to work.

I am unfortunately not a competitive smash player. I have an decent understanding of what makes a stage competitive and what to avoid, but have been seeking someone more qualified to help by consulting my competitive projects:
http://imgur.com/a/CkjMe
All of witch are either ready to go, or a tweak or two away. (Maybe except that last one)

I'm not sure what your time line is like, but I'll definitely make am attempt at an aesthetically pleasing remake from your list whithen the next few days.

If you're interested in any of the stages posted above, it wouldn't take long to make the appropriate changes to get them game ready.

Good luck with the project. I hope it pans out.

Thanks very much for your support, Rifick! I like your designs and you seem to have a good handle on the builder. Of those in your link, only Peak and Omega Stadium have potential to be tournament stages from my perspective. Also having the lava removed would likely be necessary. In general though, they all look like fun stages for friendlies so good work! If you're still willing I'd love to see what you can do with the remakes, although keep in mind that physical accuracy is more important than aesthetics, but both would be nice of course. When the patch is released you can send me them and I'll test these stages. Reliable blastzone proximity is going to be a major factor

 

[Smearglangelo]

I can also help create stages if you want, but we should probably clarify who's making what stage before we begin.

 

[rorycosgrove]

I can also help create stages if you want, but we should probably clarify who's making what stage before we begin.

Well I'm not opposed to getting multiple submissions for one design. This will give us an opportunity to vote on which is the best to represent that stage in this game. Either way thanks for contributing!

 

[FS Fantom]

As a competition focused player and a huge advocate of this project along with Rory, i disagree strongly with the sentiment that rebuilding previous tournament proven stages is a bad idea.

That's a perfect proof of concept that will get people on the fence to accept customs as tourney standards. Remake the neutral of PS2, remake FOD, remake warioware
These are stages that ALL of us have played for years in one or more games. We know them, we expect them, we are familiar with them. This is how you onboard a new concept like this.

Once we've done so we can turn around and go "this is a great brand new platform focused stahe" or "this stage is a new concept in the neutral game" and introduce true customs to expand the stage list.

Anyone who doesn't feel the current tourney stage list is painfully lacking is in denial. We have to include nonsense like Castle Siege or Duckhunt (where the spawning Ducks can ruin projectile game, cause large hitboxes to keep a person on offense suspended by duck hurt boxes and literally encourages vertical camping that some characters have NO answer to) because of a brutal lack of no-nonsense neutrals and counter picks.

 

[ALiBi212]

I love this idea. Combined with AmazingAmpharos's custom move project, it seems as though the community really has the opportunity to customize Sm4sh the same way that the PM team optimized Brawl for competitive play. This time though, the tools for customization are actually in the game so there's no trouble with legality for streaming or sponsorship. I'd love to see this topic stickied like the custom move project.

I do agree with some users about the opportunity to create unique stages with strategically placed platforms, but I don't think that we have to rule out old stages. Vanilla halberd or Pokemon stadium clones could work very well with only a few tweeks.

Also, I love what Riflick has done with non-symmetrical stages. I think it could cause a wonderful effect in battles to have stages with two different sides, each favoring a play style. Imagine a Little Mac trying to force a Marth to the more flat right side of a stage while the Marth struggles to keep the fight on the more platform based left side. That would be very fun to watch

 

[Solar Crimson]

It's impossible to recreate Norfair in stage builder, at least as-of now. you cannot set a grabable ledge on a drop through platform.

Well, there is kind of a way around it. Just make small, grabbable blocks on the outer ends of those platforms. Though I guess that could cause issues with launched characters being able to tech them if they're angled correctly.

 

[rorycosgrove]

As a competition focused player and a huge advocate of this project along with Rory, i disagree strongly with the sentiment that rebuilding previous tournament proven stages is a bad idea.

That's a perfect proof of concept that will get people on the fence to accept customs as tourney standards. Remake the neutral of PS2, remake FOD, remake warioware
These are stages that ALL of us have played for years in one or more games. We know them, we expect them, we are familiar with them. This is how you onboard a new concept like this.

Once we've done so we can turn around and go "this is a great brand new platform focused stahe" or "this stage is a new concept in the neutral game" and introduce true customs to expand the stage list.

I agree 100%. Couldn't have said it better myself

I love this idea. Combined with AmazingAmpharos's custom move project, it seems as though the community really has the opportunity to customize Sm4sh the same way that the PM team optimized Brawl for competitive play. This time though, the tools for customization are actually in the game so there's no trouble with legality for streaming or sponsorship. I'd love to see this topic stickied like the custom move project.

Exactly. We have so many opportunities to make this the most diverse competitive Smash game

 

[SilverhandX]

Exactly. We have so many opportunities to make this the most diverse competitive Smash game

We could definitely make it more diverse, but I think it's definitely already the most diverse Smash game competitively. None of the other games (except maybe PM) have any kind of character variety.

 

[MajorMajora]

The way I see this working is that it would be a sort of 'PM' like project. Sort of like how PM has their own stage lists, some independent group with some level influence in the community (at least enough to get some major stream do a minor with it or screw around with it on their off time) and, if it gets popular, then it will advance from there (how it will I don't have a clue).

Our other option is to go and throw an AA and have a large, over the top, community run project (which has its advantages and disadvantages), wait for us to come to some sort of agreement, and then use the incredible leverage of Smashboards to get people to use it. Probably the more effective method, but not as many people will necessarily support this like they would for custom moves.

Overall I'm in support of this and will advocate it as a worth the time and effort project, but it's not a ship I'll go down with.

 

[rorycosgrove]

We could definitely make it more diverse, but I think it's definitely already the most diverse Smash game competitively. None of the other games (except maybe PM) have any kind of character variety.

Exactly. Especially with custom moves already accepted

 

[DC| Reset Bomb Jigglypuff]

Yes! This!

 

[Rynhardt]

It's a shame this came as DLC instead of being on the disc, it's going to be harder to implement with the scene already rolling with our super short list of legal stages, getting used to it and freaking out at anything new getting added that they'd have to learn. I agree that anyone who says what we have now is fine, is in denial. We're grasping for stages so we legalize highly controversial counterpicks that are constantly being debated. Smash 4 is the smash of variety and this project will only compliment that. Bringing back viable classic stages should be top priority, it shouldn't have any opposition and if it does it really is unwarranted if it worked out in previous games. We could look in to fixing almost-legal or barely-legal stages already present in Smash 4 as well.

Of course this is still all speculation until we see how the patch lets us share stages. Getting the legal stages should take less time than getting a console custom tournament ready, so I am sure large events would spare the time if the scene really liked custom stages. It doesn't really create a gate no more than the one that already exists, when a new player goes to their first event and they suddenly have to learn a bunch of new rules (Every new player at our event doesn't even know what the legal stages are, you really think they know how to play on them?). People bringing Wii U's for tournament play should download the legal stages from a shared list beforehand if there is no wifi at the venue.

My biggest concern is getting everyone on the same page in terms of what we need and how much of it we need. Should we bring back every stage that had ever been legal? Or just the ones that bring the most to the stage pool? More stages isn't better for a competitive scene, but it isn't worse either. It just adds variety which is better for a viewer, and requires more game knowledge of the player which is a gate, but gates are just overly-demonized in the smash scene I think. It's a bigger undertaking than the custom moves project in terms of concept (With custom moves a starting point was easy, "Fill the ten slots with the ten best sets", custom stages don't have any criteria like that), but once the community can agree on a clear goal, I think the work to make the stages and sharing them shouldn't take too long.

 

[mobilisq]

I'm glad you're committed to this. Being a stage editor main, I got the impression the scepticism was to strong through the Smash community for this type of change to work.

I am unfortunately not a competitive smash player. I have an decent understanding of what makes a stage competitive and what to avoid, but have been seeking someone more qualified to help by consulting my competitive projects:
http://imgur.com/a/CkjMe
All of witch are either ready to go, or a tweak or two away. (Maybe except that last one)

I'm not sure what your time line is like, but I'll definitely make an attempt at an aesthetically pleasing remake from your list whithen the next few days.

If you're interested in any of the stages posted above, it wouldn't take long to make the appropriate changes to get them game ready.

Good luck with the project. I hope it pans out.

I really like all of these. In fact, I like to add you to my friends list and have you send them to me next week, if you're up for it

 

[Rifick]

I really like all of these. In fact, I like to add you to my friends list and have you send them to me next week, if you're up for it

Yeah definitely. My NID is: TheThunderPunch

 

[rorycosgrove]

It's a shame this came as DLC instead of being on the disc, it's going to be harder to implement with the scene already rolling with our super short list of legal stages, getting used to it and freaking out at anything new getting added that they'd have to learn. I agree that anyone who says what we have now is fine, is in denial. We're grasping for stages so we legalize highly controversial counterpicks that are constantly being debated. Smash 4 is the smash of variety and this project will only compliment that. Bringing back viable classic stages should be top priority, it shouldn't have any opposition and if it does it really is unwarranted if it worked out in previous games. We could look in to fixing almost-legal or barely-legal stages already present in Smash 4 as well.

Of course this is still all speculation until we see how the patch lets us share stages. Getting the legal stages should take less time than getting a console custom tournament ready, so I am sure large events would spare the time if the scene really liked custom stages. It doesn't really create a gate no more than the one that already exists, when a new player goes to their first event and they suddenly have to learn a bunch of new rules (Every new player at our event doesn't even know what the legal stages are, you really think they know how to play on them?). People bringing Wii U's for tournament play should download the legal stages from a shared list beforehand if there is no wifi at the venue.

My biggest concern is getting everyone on the same page in terms of what we need and how much of it we need. Should we bring back every stage that had ever been legal? Or just the ones that bring the most to the stage pool? More stages isn't better for a competitive scene, but it isn't worse either. It just adds variety which is better for a viewer, and requires more game knowledge of the player which is a gate, but gates are just overly-demonized in the smash scene I think. It's a bigger undertaking than the custom moves project in terms of concept (With custom moves a starting point was easy, "Fill the ten slots with the ten best sets", custom stages don't have any criteria like that), but once the community can agree on a clear goal, I think the work to make the stages and sharing them shouldn't take too long.

We're definitely on the same page. I've started this thread early so we can sort out our thoughts before stage sharing even becomes possible, but even when it does it's going to be a "play it by ear" process. Fortunately I personally am part of a crew that hosts at 3 different venues so I'll have a lot of testing opportunities. When we have stage designs made, I think we can use polls to determine which ones people favor the most, and perhaps even more polls to determine how many custom stages should be added to tournament lists - all processes of narrowing down from unlimited possibilities to a single list that may change (like the custom moves list) but will be firm enough to be widely accepted by those who embrace the project in general. I think these should be our initial goals with the Custom Stage Project

 

[mobilisq]

Yeah definitely. My NID is: TheThunderPunch

I'll have you added once I'm home from work

 

[ALiBi212]

I think that we need to strategically approach the process of selecting stages when the time comes. Simply voting on which stages we like the best may not be the most effective way to develop a good/fair list. Rather, we should focus on developing a small list of stages that allow all play types to have equal advantage in the stage striking process. Like others have said, the purpose of stage lists is not to have a lot of stages, but rather to give all characters/styles equal chances.

That said, I feel as though we should look at what the major play styles are and how we can enhance the current stage list to accommodate. This way, we can say "let's vote on a new stage that emphasizes platform play" or, "let's make a stage that counters projectile spamming", then vote on stages that serve that particular purpose the best.

This would not only help to focus the design thinking process, but also help us to avoid creating a list of 500 cool and fair stages (stages can be fair and unnecessary at the same time.) personally, I like starter lists of just 5 or 7 stages.

 

[Smearglangelo]

I've taken the liberty of recreating as many stages from the Smash Brothers games that could be potentially viable. I'll post a list in a day or two so we can decide which ones should be taken into consideration.

 

[Rynhardt]

We're definitely on the same page. I've started this thread early so we can sort out our thoughts before stage sharing even becomes possible, but even when it does it's going to be a "play it by ear" process. Fortunately I personally am part of a crew that hosts at 3 different venues so I'll have a lot of testing opportunities. When we have stage designs made, I think we can use polls to determine which ones people favor the most, and perhaps even more polls to determine how many custom stages should be added to tournament lists - all processes of narrowing down from unlimited possibilities to a single list that may change (like the custom moves list) but will be firm enough to be widely accepted by those who embrace the project in general. I think these should be our initial goals with the Custom Stage Project

I wonder if introducing a few of these at a time or even rotating through a small number such as three legal customs would make easing them in to the scene feel less intrusive and overwhelming?

You rotate a small number, people grow to like a stage that is out of rotation, people start requesting a larger rotation until they're all legal, is how I'd hope it would go.

 

[Raijinken]

I think that we need to strategically approach the process of selecting stages when the time comes. Simply voting on which stages we like the best may not be the most effective way to develop a good/fair list. Rather, we should focus on developing a small list of stages that allow all play types to have equal advantage in the stage striking process. Like others have said, the purpose of stage lists is not to have a lot of stages, but rather to give all characters/styles equal chances.

That said, I feel as though we should look at what the major play styles are and how we can enhance the current stage list to accommodate. This way, we can say "let's vote on a new stage that emphasizes platform play" or, "let's make a stage that counters projectile spamming", then vote on stages that serve that particular purpose the best.

This would not only help to focus the design thinking process, but also help us to avoid creating a list of 500 cool and fair stages (stages can be fair and unnecessary at the same time.) personally, I like starter lists of just 5 or 7 stages.

A good way to counter some projectile spamming is to have slopes on the main ground level. That also influences regular ground approaches, though. Weighing decisions like that can be hard.

 

[rorycosgrove]

I wonder if introducing a few of these at a time or even rotating through a small number such as three legal customs would make easing them in to the scene feel less intrusive and overwhelming?

You rotate a small number, people grow to like a stage that is out of rotation, people start requesting a larger rotation until they're all legal, is how I'd hope it would go.

Not a bad idea. We'll see how everything works out once they become shareable. Also, to those discussing uses of stages for matchups, I think we need to be very careful with that. Although I think that it will be great to have, I can't understand any opposition to pure variety on simple balanced stages. Not dozens of course, but enough to give players many options to have a match with no stage influence on the outcome. That's my personal taste in Stages

 

[Smearglangelo]

I'm done the past stages! Here's a list of the stages I made:
- Dreamland (64)
- Pokemon Stadium 1 (Melee)
- Yoshi's Story (Melee)
- Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
- WarioWare, Inc. (Brawl)
- Green Hill Zone (PM) version 1
- Green Hill Zone (PM) version 2
- Reset Bomb Forest (3DS)
- Wily Castle (3DS)
- Pyrosphere (Wii U)

Spoiler: Preview

 

[Omegaphoenix]

As an advocate of more dynamic stages, I feel the idea of recreating past stages, while an interesting idea, may lead to a bit of a slippery slope in more conservative regions. I think while it would bring in players to the idea of custom stages, I feel that regions which prefer non-interactive stages may use the tool to take good layouts on stages they don't like some elements of, basically replacing the native stage with a static stage, which I think damages the meta by not testing the player's knowledge of the stages and ability to adapt while they are playing.

 

[rorycosgrove]

I'm done the past stages! Here's a list of the stages I made:
- Dreamland (64)
- Pokemon Stadium 1 (Melee)
- Yoshi's Story (Melee)
- Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
- WarioWare, Inc. (Brawl)
- Green Hill Zone (PM) version 1
- Green Hill Zone (PM) version 2
- Reset Bomb Forest (3DS)
- Wily Castle (3DS)
- Pyrosphere (Wii U)

Spoiler: Preview

Excellent job! I'd like to test these out as soon as possible

 

[Metal B]

• Users will be able to post photos and Custom stages to Miiverse from within the game (Photos will be posted to the official Snapshot Sharing Community and Custom stages will be posted to the official Stage Sharing Community
• Users can download data from the server to Super Smash Bros. for Wii U if there is an activation button in the images posted on Miiverse.
• Users will be able to share and exchange photos, replay data, Mii Fighter data, and Custom stage data with users on their Nintendo 3DS Friend List.

Sharing stages through Miiverse is super easy, so this will not be counter argument anymore.

The best practice would be to choose one person, who creates a specific Miiverse account, and only have him release stages. Either new stages or new builds of stages. You also don't need to befriend this person, since you can simply follow her. so there is no problem with the friend-list limitation.

Even better. Miiverse could also become a tool to get feedback from the players and to have people update.
I will work on my thread-post, which i prepared, where i also have a lot of suggestions on how to organize this project.