Custom Move Spotlights

[thehard]

So, on March 27th, EVO is officially locking its ruleset for Smash 4 in. As we all know by now, custom moves ARE legal and will be implemented by means of Amazing Ampharos' Custom Move Project. It's looking like there will be NO custom move bans as well (and in my eyes, that's a good thing).

HOWEVER, despite EVO's rulings, there is still some dissent among the community. A fair number of players have taken up issue with certain powerful custom moves, like Kong Cyclone and Timber Counter, and are calling for nerfs or worse, bans.

I would like to create a series of threads that focus, one at a time, on these particularly strong/popular custom moves as a means of centralizing information on them, for the benefit of all players but especially those attending EVO. I am a firm believer that no custom moves need to be banned and a firm believer that through knowledge (and practice), these moves are surmountable.

These threads would include:
-Frame Data/KB values/Damage values, etc.
-Testimonials from players who've fought with and against the move
-Tournament matches with usage of the move
And so on. My hope is that the threads would then become a hub for continually updated discussion and information about whichever move was spotlighted, ESPECIALLY hashing out hard/soft counters and ways to work around and marginalize the move's effects. As an aside, after filling out the OP as much as I could, I wouldn't have a huge hand in the threads, perhaps updating the OP over time to reel in the best bits the community brings to the table.

I'll start on these threads shortly after March 27th if this is a popular enough idea.

Note that this thread and future ones are NOT designed for people to discuss the legality of any custom move.

Also note that I might be biased in the order of custom move discussions but voting is still very helpful.

Thanks for your consideration.

(The creation of this thread was spent mostly on drawing this)

 

[Unknownkid]

Cool topic. I will like to discuss or find counters for some of these "broken" custom moves. Teshie U and I already destroy Kong Cyclone in the Competitive Impressive Thread - http://smashboards.com/threads/character-competitive-impressions.367669/page-497#post-18775731 but more discussion will be good.

I'm going to vote for Timber Counter because I want to see what we come up with. Also, add Penetrating Needle to the list.

 

[thehard]

Cool topic. I will like to discuss or find counters for some of these "broken" custom moves. Teshie U and I already destroy Kong Cyclone in the Competitive Impressive Thread - http://smashboards.com/threads/character-competitive-impressions.367669/page-497#post-18775731 but more discussion will be good.

I'm going to vote for Timber Counter because I want to see what we come up with. Also, add Penetrating Needle to the list.

I can't edit the poll but I've added Penetrating Needle to the list in my head Thanks for the post too, I'll be including that in KC discussion

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I voted for Timber Counter simply because it's one of the most frequently mentioned customs whenever the subject gets brought up. But really, everything on the poll is pretty low-hanging fruit.

Also consider Shooting Star Bit. As a move it's nothing really special, but I've seen a lot of people complain about how Rosalina gets a pseudo Falco laser to play with.

 

[Project Quarantine]

Luma Warp! Paired with the quick side-b single star bit thingy, there are some matchups that are going to be almost unwinnable because of her unique camping and defensive array.

 

[Jaxas]

Monkey Flip

Can this include non-custom moves as well? Anyways, I'm going to vote for Jumbo Hoop, in the wake of Sunday's Smash Attack... 5?

 

[ぱみゅ]

I can't edit the poll but I've added Penetrating Needle to the list in my head Thanks for the post too, I'll be including that in KC discussion

That's easy to solve

 

[Macchiato]

Crescent slash is amazing, it kills from the edge at arround 50% and follows up from Lucinas fair, bair, grab release, or fthrow.

 

[EmblemCrossing]

Voted Timber Counter, I want to get some new ideas from it. I love using it, but I need more information on setups/frame data stuff.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Extreme Balloon Trip seems most concerning to me, personally.

 

[Flamecircle]

Might as well pick timber counter as that's the far and away most whined about one.

 

[warriorman222]

Timber Counter is just the most ovverated thing ever. To the pint where ZeRo makes a video over it, and he sounds like he'll main Killager in a customs meta. If that happens ans we haven't conditioned people to deal with it or at least see that it's not OP, he'll get Timber Counter, or possibly all customs banned, I guarantee.

We need to discuss Timber Counter. Kong Cyclone is properly destroyed, so Penetrating Needles should be next. The Youtube salt in Shofu's comment section is delicious but also dangerously high.

 

[thehard]

That's easy to solve

Thanks! (Even if you spelled Penetrating wrong )

To those following this thread, if a specific character has 2 custom moves up for consideration, should I combine those moves into one all-purpose thread or leave them separately? (So one thread for Timber Counter and Extreme Balloon Trip, one for Luma Warp and Shooting Star Bit, one for Kong Cyclone and Storm Punch [why did I even add that move to the poll it's so non-threatening lol] etc.)

 

[warriorman222]

Thanks! (Even if you spelled Penetrating wrong )

To those following this thread, if a specific character has 2 custom moves up for consideration, should I combine those moves into one all-purpose thread or leave them separately? (So one thread for Timber Counter and Extreme Balloon Trip, one for Luma Warp and Shooting Star Bit, one for Kong Cyclone and Storm Punch [why did I even add that move to the poll it's so non-threatening lol] etc.)

Yes. And then do one at a time.

 

[Teshie U]

Storm Punch is more threatening than Kong Cyclone imo. With rage, the sweetspot can push you into the blast zone or waaay too far to recover from at 0%.

 

[warriorman222]

Storm Punch is more threatening than Kong Cyclone imo. With rage, the sweetspot can push you into the blast zone or waaay too far to recover from at 0%.

Except like 5-10 characters won't be able to recover, because most of the cast can recover from semi spikes and 0% gimps. Not that small, but they're not completely invalidated or anything.

 

[Teshie U]

Just pointing out that Storm Punch can be devastating after you screw up. Kong cyclone you pretty much have to screw up after you see it happening.

You can be pushed out far enough that would be extremely predictable. That part of the move is fairly close to him and it has no armor or anything. Just pointing out that people should be aware of the danger.

 

[warriorman222]

Just pointing out that Storm Punch can be devastating after you screw up. Kong cyclone you pretty much have to screw up after you see it happening.

You can be pushed out far enough that would be extremely predictable. That part of the move is fairly close to him and it has no armor or anything. Just pointing out that people should be aware of the danger.

Ih. Ok. But people see Long Cyclone as the larger threat, and this thread seems like a good place to appease those threats.