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Crappy wobbling discussion

Do you think Wobbling should be banned from Competitive play?


  • Total voters
    74

MudkipUniverse

Smash Ace
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Jun 4, 2013
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VolcanicAsh
I am an Ice Climbers secondary, but driving me away from maining them is one thing. This one thing, I feel, is very centralizing and toxic. It can shift the momentum of the game, ruin the flow of gameplay, and provide a guaranteed 0-death. I think the tool useful, but I do not like using it.

WOBBLING

I know that if wobbling was banned from tournament play, IC's would be less viable. I think being less viable would be exceptable, as long as they play better.

Do you guys enjoy using Wobbling?
 
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MS DOS

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 20, 2014
Messages
21
Location
Seattle, WA
Ice Climbers have been doing fine for years, both with and without wobbling. There is literally no reason to start banning it now
Wobbles, if I remember an interview with him correctly, picked up ICs because of the infinite, and proceeded to lose tournaments because he just tried to mindlessly wobble. Wobbling is a tool, and one that can be avoided if you play the matchup right.
I might be biased but I see no reason to bring up banning wobbling at all.
 
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Vanitas

Smash Ace
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Jan 30, 2010
Messages
812
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Final Destination
I'm not sure what kind of background you have to back up your claims, but some of it is incorrect.

Desynching in certain situations can place your secondary climber at huge risk for massive percent or an early death. Setting up desynchs can also be predictable once the opposing player becomes familiar with our techniques.

Also, relying on wobbling is what causes low leveled ICs mains to quickly plateau in skill level. Sure some IC mains may centralize their game into the lethal punishment game, but there are stringent requirements in setting up the wobble (both climbers must be synched, depending on how quickly the enemy can mash out, ICs grab range being pathetically small, etc). Other characters are capable of ZTD'ing other characters in their own way, but ICs can do this in a more "boring" or what you would call it, "toxic" way. I think a good example of it not being banworthy was EVO 2013. Even with the best ICs player, Wobbles, being super consistent with it and having probably the best neutral game of any IC, he was still unable to win the tournament, and had close sets with all the other Gods.

It is ultimately the ICs player at hand if they choose to wobble or not. If you feel like the technique is driving you away from playing them, then the answer is simple: don't wobble. Fly Amanita has proven that results can be achieved without wobbling.

Also having an open poll on the ICs forums won't really give you the answer or consensus as anyone can vote on it (from anti-wobble players to pro-wobble players)

Good luck on your decision.
 
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DerfMidWest

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SOFA#941
wobbling is aight. It's actually pretty cool to watch how some of the really good players (particularly wobbles) go about setting wobbles up and comboing into them.
 

MudkipUniverse

Smash Ace
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Jun 4, 2013
Messages
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Seatac, WA
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VolcanicAsh
I'm not sure what kind of background you have to back up your claims, but some of it is incorrect.

Desynching in certain situations can place your secondary climber at huge risk for massive percent or an early death. Setting up desynchs can also be predictable once the opposing player becomes familiar with our techniques.

Also, relying on wobbling is what causes low leveled ICs mains to quickly plateau in skill level. Sure some IC mains may centralize their game into the lethal punishment game, but there are stringent requirements in setting up the wobble (both climbers must be synched, depending on how quickly the enemy can mash out, ICs grab range being pathetically small, etc). Other characters are capable of ZTD'ing other characters in their own way, but ICs can do this in a more "boring" or what you would call it, "toxic" way. I think a good example of it not being banworthy was EVO 2013. Even with the best ICs player, Wobbles, being super consistent with it and having probably the best neutral game of any IC, he was still unable to win the tournament, and had close sets with all the other Gods.

It is ultimately the ICs player at hand if they choose to wobble or not. If you feel like the technique is driving you away from playing them, then the answer is simple: don't wobble. Fly Amanita has proven that results can be achieved without wobbling.

Also having an open poll on the ICs forums won't really give you the answer or consensus as anyone can vote on it (from anti-wobble players to pro-wobble players)

Good luck on your decision.
k then, I will choose not to wobble
 

DerfMidWest

Fresh ******
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SOFA#941
*claps n such*
I did that for awhile. I still don't wobble much, but it makes certain matchups so much harder without it.
It's not necessarily something you need (as illustrated by fly, chu, small tourney wobbles, etc.)
have fun with marth and peach :p
 
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S2rulL

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 28, 2012
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393
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whatever
I can't believe this is still even a discussion tbh. If it were REALLY that bad it would have been banned years ago. Tbh, I have no problem using it. My argument is normally that wobbling has become part of the meta so banning it now would impact that.
 

DerfMidWest

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I can't believe this is still even a discussion tbh. If it were REALLY that bad it would have been banned years ago. Tbh, I have no problem using it. My argument is normally that wobbling has become part of the meta so banning it now would impact that.
It was banned almost all the time for a long time.
But now its pretty much only banned in michigan.
 

Nana Saves Popo

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
11
I always say if I could take one thing and remove it from the game it might likely be wobbling. It is often seen as a crutch to a character that has a lot of potential (tbf its often used as one too) and as such it hurts the characters reputation in the scene. However it is an amazingly useful tool and as long as its in the game and allowed there will be times I use it. That's my take on it
 

EddyBearr

Smash Lord
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Jun 14, 2013
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Minneapolis, Minnesota
I've always wondered how an "advanced ban" on wobbling would go. A scenario where an IC player can only wobble once per game. We'd have less salt over Nintendude, but retain the lethal fear of being grabbed by any ICs player beyond the fear of regrab tricks.
 
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Rockleeland

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 4, 2013
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5
Location
San Diego
I don't think it should be banned. ICs aren't that high on the tier list and I feel like those who complain about wobbling are low level and mid level players.
 

mikeysk8

Smash Rookie
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Jan 7, 2014
Messages
15
It was banned almost all the time for a long time.
But now its pretty much only banned in michigan.
Okay like I actually live in michigan and main ice climbers and I'd have to disagree with this statement. Wobbling is usually allowed in our smaller tournies. However our big tournies like the sweet series and big house ban wobbling because Robin Harn is against wobbling and I guess a good number of our players agree with him. Besides that wobbling is allowed in basically any tourny robin harn doesnt to
 

DerfMidWest

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Okay like I actually live in michigan and main ice climbers and I'd have to disagree with this statement. Wobbling is usually allowed in our smaller tournies. However our big tournies like the sweet series and big house ban wobbling because Robin Harn is against wobbling and I guess a good number of our players agree with him. Besides that wobbling is allowed in basically any tourny robin harn doesnt to
Im aware, when I say "michigan bans wobbling" I mean its banned at notable tourneys there, almost all of which Rob runs.
You also see a lot of mi players get pissy when they come to ohio and get wobbled
 

The Prince: SDJ

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 8, 2014
Messages
175
I am an Ice Climbers secondary, but driving me away from maining them is one thing. This one thing, I feel, is very centralizing and toxic. It can shift the momentum of the game, ruin the flow of gameplay, and provide a guaranteed 0-death. I think the tool useful, but I do not like using it.

WOBBLING

I know that if wobbling was banned from tournament play, IC's would be less viable. I think being less viable would be exceptable, as long as they play better.

Do you guys enjoy using Wobbling?
I am a Fox secondary, but the one thing driving me away from maining the character is

SHINE INFINITES

They should be banned from tournament play, even though fox would be less viable.

Do you guys enjoy shine infinites?
 

MudkipUniverse

Smash Ace
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Seatac, WA
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VolcanicAsh
I am a Fox secondary, but the one thing driving me away from maining the character is

SHINE INFINITES

They should be banned from tournament play, even though fox would be less viable.

Do you guys enjoy shine infinites?
yeah, shine infinites are bad too. But they don't work on almost every character, and they don't take a while.
 

FlamingForce

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
390
Man if I could give spacies dumb artificial limitations in the spirit of them being less effective being "exceptable"
 

The Prince: SDJ

Smash Apprentice
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Messages
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I feel you could ban wobbling in certain MU and allow it in other MU
Because how the F are you going to beat peach without wobbling.
 
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Smog

Smash Journeyman
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Oct 17, 2014
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Pittsburgh, PA
Supposedly iceys are barely in S tier. No point in getting rid of wobbling and possibly only having 7 viable characters. Especially since icey mains are hard to come by.

Fox's shines aren't infinite. Only till the end of the stage, and it may even be harder to setup than a wobble.
 

MudkipUniverse

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Supposedly iceys are barely in S tier. No point in getting rid of wobbling and possibly only having 7 viable characters. Especially since icey mains are hard to come by.

Fox's shines aren't infinite. Only till the end of the stage, and it may even be harder to setup than a wobble.
http://gfycat.com/IllinformedIndolentGaur

irrelevant: Wobbles is the best ice climbers by far
 

mikeysk8

Smash Rookie
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Jan 7, 2014
Messages
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Im aware, when I say "michigan bans wobbling" I mean its banned at notable tourneys there, almost all of which Rob runs.
You also see a lot of mi players get pissy when they come to ohio and get wobbled
Well yeah that however is true sadly.
 

mikeysk8

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 7, 2014
Messages
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I've actually wondered what are Juggleguy's reasons for banning wobbling, does anyone actually know?
Basically that it's degenerative gameplay and that the skill to be able to get wobble setups and wobble is a irrelevant skill in melee. Kind of like how being able to fight with the stage moving on rainbow cruise or stage hazards on mute city. Being able to fight despite these things is a skill, it's just not important in melee. A few months ago somebody who was friends with dizzkidboogie a great icys player asked why wobbling was banned at his tourney when it wouldn't be banned at apex on an event page for the sweet apexprologue tourney and that was some of his points. Honestly if you looked for the event page on facebook you could get everyones points
 

KingKirb

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
250
I think wobbling adds a new dynamic to the IC's matchup. If they were winning every tournament ever, I'd probably support the ban of wobbling, but for now I don't see any reason to ban it. And if you ban wobbling, wouldn't you have to ban drillshines too?
 
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Ty.

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Basically that it's degenerative gameplay and that the skill to be able to get wobble setups and wobble is a irrelevant skill in melee. Kind of like how being able to fight with the stage moving on rainbow cruise or stage hazards on mute city. Being able to fight despite these things is a skill, it's just not important in melee. A few months ago somebody who was friends with dizzkidboogie a great icys player asked why wobbling was banned at his tourney when it wouldn't be banned at apex on an event page for the sweet apexprologue tourney and that was some of his points. Honestly if you looked for the event page on facebook you could get everyones points
Doing things that take skill while playing Melee, are completely irrelevant in Melee?
 

DerfMidWest

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Its a very outdated and biased view, but its his tourney, so just dont go if you dont support the ban.
 
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GhllieShdeKnife

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 21, 2010
Messages
687
honestly I advise any new IC players to STAY AWAY FROM WOBBLING in order to develop other parts of their game. Focusing on getting grabs in the neutral can be very detrimental to your success in learning the character and getting good with them. IMO wobbling should be mostly done on reaction to getting a grab with the right situation in order to keep your opponent from reading your intentions so easily
 

dfrogman

Smash Cadet
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Nov 5, 2014
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Washington, DC
lol the fact that this is even a discussion is hilarious.
right? and in 2015 too. it's actually horrifying that theres apparently still a state that bans it

actually saying that most of the posts in this thread constitute a "discussion" would be way too charitable
 
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