Could the competition scene in Brawl possibly fade away to nothing?

[smasher32]

This might sound a tad extreme, but I figure we're always up for more discussion.

General consensus on smashboards is that Melee is currently considered more competitive than Brawl. Of course, new tactics/strategies are being discovered as time moves on (wavebouncing per se). But let's say there are no new "ground breaking" tactics that put Brawl on a similar level with Melee. Could it possibly cause melee's competitive scene to become non-existent?

If there are similar threads like this that I was not able to find, I'll lock this up immediately

 

[Ademisk]

Conceivably, it depends on the strength of the community.

 

[-Ran]

There's a larger metagame about Melee vs Brawl than either of the game has. -.- The game has been out for only a week in the US, and barely a month total for people that imported. You cannot compare a game at the end of its life cycle to an infant.

Worst case, if nothing else would develop for Brawl, it'd be the 3rd Strike of Brawl. It'd have a competitive circle, and others would still use Melee [Street Fighter 2.] Different strokes, for different folks.

 

[shadydentist]

Yes it can, and it will. The question is when.

 

[Pul5]

just means we're gonna have to play like the game was intended to play

 

[syndicate]

Anyone ever think that maybe Nintendo picked up on the ease of advanced techniques in Melee, will now be part of the challenge in Brawl I mean maybe there are advanced techs that Nintendo PUT into the game for us to figure out, but not as easily as they were in Melee. I say they took advantage of what they didnt intend to happen in Melee, to intending Brawl will be made for competition for those whom want it to happen and figure out what the creators have hidden in the mechanics.

 

[Stewie1288]

just means we're gonna have to play like the game was intended to play

******** statement.

 

[FrozenFire13]

I agree with Ran Iji. It's too difficult to say at this point since the game JUST came out. Because if you look at how long it took for advanced tactics to develop in Melee...

 

[PhoenixAlpha]

I don't think the conclusion (competitive scene dissipating to dust) is really fair. The reasons described above are all fine and good, but why is Melee the new defining point of what makes smash competitive (at all)? Just because Brawl isn't AS competitive as Melee, it won't have competitors at all? That doesn't make any sense!

Forgive me if I read that wrong, but that's what I'm gathering. Just because a game doesn't have a bunch of glitches and really difficult stuff to master doesn't remove the chance for it to be competitive. We just have to master the fundamental fighting techniques that are the basis of the game.

 

[Mama]

Well yes the general consensus is that right now Melee is far more competitive. I agree. But I also see that its obviously far too early and a tad stupid to compare Brawl to Melee, in terms of competitive nature. This thread is pointless though really. If you wanted to debate this in a civil manner then you could go and look fo r Scar's thread and post there. Here you'll just get a bunch of stupid people with barely any intelligent posters willing to waste their time on this topic.

I'll just say that the reason Brawl is less competitive is the ease in which a lot of things can be done. It takes less skill to be on even ground with another person. However, since we don't know everything in Brawl that will require skill we don't know how things will go.

And to answer your question, not before its time is up. Brawl will fade out when SSB4 comes out.

 

[Mama]

I don't think the conclusion (competitive scene dissipating to dust) is really fair. The reasons described above are all fine and good, but why is Melee the new defining point of what makes smash competitive (at all)? Just because Brawl isn't AS competitive as Melee, it won't have competitors at all? That doesn't make any sense!

Forgive me if I read that wrong, but that's what I'm gathering. Just because a game doesn't have a bunch of glitches and really difficult stuff to master doesn't remove the chance for it to be competitive. We just have to master the fundamental fighting techniques that are the basis of the game.

And this is why you should have posted in Scar's thread. People like this guy can read all the reasons since the first post in this thread is pathetic.

 

[ComradeSAL]

SHOCKING FACT: By the time the sun burns out, people may have possibly stopped playing Brawl competitively.

 

[Mama]

SHOCKING FACT: By the time the sun burns out, people may have possibly stopped playing Brawl competitively.

Actually my cousin from the future said that they re made Brawl since all the Wii's wont work on future TV's. Its now played on Mars using the Nintendo Nintendo. People call it Nintendo for short. ....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

[Ademisk]

Anyone ever think that maybe Nintendo picked up on the ease of advanced techniques in Melee, will now be part of the challenge in Brawl I mean maybe there are advanced techs that Nintendo PUT into the game for us to figure out, but not as easily as they were in Melee. I say they took advantage of what they didnt intend to happen in Melee, to intending Brawl will be made for competition for those whom want it to happen and figure out what the creators have hidden in the mechanics.

That argument would be good if Nintendo was competent. Proof against it: Friend Codes.

 

[Epick]

Actually my cousin from the future said that they re made Brawl since all the Wii's wont work on future TV's. Its now played on Mars using the Nintendo Nintendo. People call it Nintendo for short. ....................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

You need at least a Laser-7 output to hook things up to future T.V.s and the Wii just doesn't support that.

 

[Mama]

You need at least a Laser-7 output to hook things up to future T.V.s and the Wii just doesn't support that.

I laughed out loud when I read that xD.

 

[Fletch]

Unfortunately the Brawl competitive scene will probably last a while due to the community being so large, but I don't know how many of the current Melee pros or really skilled players are going to stick with it just because of the random, shallow nature of Brawl.

 

[SockNinja]

That argument would be good if Nintendo was competent. Proof against it: Friend Codes.

Nintendo didn't make brawl.


Brawl is a better game than melee period. lack of huge game-changing glitches does not harm the gameplay, it merely makes it so that you guys are going to have to focus on actually understanding game mechanics instead of executing combos you saw M2K do.

 

[Grmo]

lol this thread is interesting. You've made a point, but also consider this: so many people, and I mean thousands of people felt underappreciated in Melee because they weren't really that good. These people looked forward to Brawl so that they would have a chance to compete for once. There are tons of people like that who are trying to be the best at this game. It may be that there will be a much larger amount of people coming to tournaments.

The second group is those of us who were really into the Melee community. I found myself wishing sometimes that we were still playing Melee just because I was so into it. A lot of my friends still are, but most of us are now getting into Brawl and are really enjoying it.

So, do the math (isn't it sad that every time I write that word I accidentally write marth before correcting myself?). All the old community playing, plus all the new people. I'd say it's gotten even bigger. Take a look around at the boards. People are dedicated, and they're spending tons of time trying to learn about the game. I for one plan to continue hosting tournaments, and I feel that many others will as well. Don't worry, I'm sure the community won't die.

fletch71011: It's true, the randomness is annoying. Tripping is the worst thing probably ever. You could be right, but just give the game time.

 

[Lixivium]

People will find a way to play anything competitively. If the World Rock Paper Scissors Society can exist, I'm sure competitive Brawl will find a way to survive.

 

[RBinator]

Nintendo didn't make brawl.


Brawl is a better game than melee period. lack of huge game-changing glitches does not harm the gameplay, it merely makes it so that you guys are going to have to focus on actually understanding game mechanics instead of executing combos you saw M2K do.

The text in bold is opinion. What stuff in Melee do you consider glitches? What do you mean people didn't understand the game mechanics in Melee? Do you even know what you're talking about?

Anyway, topics like these seem to come up all the time. People people, Brawl has a meta game of little over a month's worth of time (going by Japanese release date) to develop, while Melee had seven years. Then again, we do have a lot more people looking to discover stuff in Brawl at this time then what Melee had. Even if Brawl really does turn to be to be easier to master then Melee, I think there will still be professional tournaments.

 

[jmoney316]

i agree, many pros that played melee play brawl. we'll find ways to break the game. its just geared to casual players, though there is alot of depth in this game. there will be pro tournaments. thing is will there be more online or offline tournaments. that is yet to be seen.

 

[reqy]

Nintendo didn't make brawl.


Brawl is a better game than melee period. lack of huge game-changing glitches does not harm the gameplay, it merely makes it so that you guys are going to have to focus on actually understanding game mechanics instead of executing combos you saw M2K do.

doesnt m2k produce those combos because he KNOWS the game mechanics of melee?

 

[Timeaisis]

I think Brawl is definately more balanced than Melee. In the characters, moves, etc. I mean, tiers aren't gonna be as influential to tournament play this time, I think, which is good. Although Brawl may not have all these ATs that Melee did, I don't think we can rule out competitive play. Its got its fair share of tactics, just like Melee. And like others have pointed out. I remember when Melee first came out...it took a while for stuff to start really appearing. And even if it doesn't, Brawl has still got enough right now to have it in competitive play. Its a more balanced game, anyway. Just my opinion.

 

[FrozenFire13]

I know I was excited for the balance in the game. I was tired of Link being downsized by the spacies. Granted, he still isn't good now either, but that's besides the point

 

[COMMOFDOOM]

Tripping ensures Brawl will never see half the competitive play it otherwise would have. Slow gameplay, poorly tested multiplay and a significant lowering of the skill cap ends all possibility.

 

[Fleche]

The smash bros engine promotes tactical thinking; it will always be competitive.

The skill curve in melee appears to be much, much steeper than brawl, but if the technical skill level between two opponents is equal then who wins? The better tactician/strategist.

If you can wavedash and I can't, you're more "skilled" than me... but if I notice that after every wavedash forward to do a down tilt or something, I'm going to use that knowledge against you.

This is a pretty simple concept, dudes. Maybe you should chill and enjoy the game a bit

 

[Mercury]

anyone who honestly thinks brawl won't be successful as a competitive game are merely comparing it to melee, it seems like it's all they know and they don't realize that melee wasn't the beginning but rather the middle. it reminds me exactly what happened when halo 3 came out and people were saying "oh, it won't be like halo 2" when in reality, it wasn't halo 2 that did ANYTHING but make the game popular, it wasn't at all an improvement over halo: CE unless you count double shots and all that. but guess what? people just gave up saying that and moved on. and that's what will happen here. everyone else will just continue playing their game.

i mean, i really don't see where you get the idea that the competition will fade. EVO is going to pick it up, MLG is probably going to pick it up again, Brawl's birth has way more players than Melee's did by far... seriously, where do you come up with that? i could see if you said "oh it's less competitive" or something like everyone else, but the competition itself is clearly much higher.

 

[squiser]

Give it time guys...remember how long it took for wavedashing to be found in Melee. That being said, Nintendo does seem to have tried to move more towards a fun party game, intead of creating a competitive fighting game. Still... there's hope. Even if it doesn't become as competitive as Melee, I can see it coming pretty close.

Also, I agree with Fleche... with less of the technical aspect to Brawl, the psychological aspect will probably play a larger part. That alone can give a lot of life to Brawl's competitive scene. It's a different game, that's all.

 

[Hion64]

I think that some people are taking it a bit too seriously. Does Brawl need glitches to be able to be played competitively? Also, Brawl is balanced this time around, I believe that the gaps between tiers will be narrower. We don't really need wavedashing and other glitches to qualify the game as "competitive."

Skill and level of mastery with your respective character will decide the victor.

 

[Tyros]

Smash 64
Melee
Brawl...
The beauty of these three games is this:
Although they belong to the same series, Super Smash Brothers, each one has its own unique play style that greatly differs from the others. They're completely separate games, just each with Nintendo characters.

If you'll remember, while Melee was out, people who preferred Smash 64 still played Smash 64 quite competitively. Even towards the end of Melee's life, Smash 64 was still played. Hell, it's probably played now still, too. The fact is, there will always be people who enjoy different styles of playing.

So, those of you who believe Melee is the better game, the by all means - play Melee like you have for so long! Those of you who like Smash 64 the best, then play that! And those who like Brawl out of the three, that's, of course, open to you to play, as well. There's no need to fight over all this, really. Simply play the one you like the most. There'll always be a competitive scene in all of them, so enjoy your favorite one.

- Tyros

 

[Cervial]

I don't know too much about competitive smash, but I do know that the same has been said of several other games, with the Halo 2 to Halo 3 situation being very similar. (Oh noes, there's no BXR!)

The competitive Halo scene hasn't faded due to a lack of advanced techniques/glitches, so why would the competitive smash scene fade?

You don't need to be a brilliant smasher to use simple logic. >_______>

 

[PredictablyStubborn]

Fade to nothing.
to nothing.
nothing.

The answer is no. If you look at every other fighting game besides Smash, the general rule is: If there are players, there will always be a competitive scene.


I just want to add that if the Wifi system for Brawl wasn't so crappy, Brawl would have been way more competitive than Melee. (better Wifi -> more games and records between people going on -> competition)

 

[pneuma14]

Give it time guys...remember how long it took for wavedashing to be found in Melee. That being said, Nintendo does seem to have tried to move more towards a fun party game, intead of creating a competitive fighting game. Still... there's hope. Even if it doesn't become as competitive as Melee, I can see it coming pretty close.

Also, I agree with Fleche... with less of the technical aspect to Brawl, the psychological aspect will probably play a larger part. That alone can give a lot of life to Brawl's competitive scene. It's a different game, that's all.

I completely agree. I get the feeling playing Brawl that, in the end, mindgames will become the main strategic aspect of the game, rather than just raw technical ability. This could make Brawl a game that rewards creativity and spontaneity much more than Melee did, and would probably make for more entertaining tournaments.

Also, while some people are complaining about lag, I've personally had no problem finding skilled players through the SWF friend finder and brawling with little to no lag. This means that even those of us who don't have any friends who live nearby and play Smash (like me...) have a chance to actually practice with good players rather than just level-9's. It also keeps me on my toes because I'm constantly encountering people with different play styles (and thus I have to mix up my mindgames). All in all, I think Brawl is well on the way to supplanting Melee. But they'll probably coexist side by side for awhile.