Could anyone review my Fox notes?

[Red Dress]

Hey there, I'm new to Fox and relatively to the competitive Melee scene. I decided to switch to Fox (from Sheik) because it was my plan to main him anyway. Still, besides practicing techskill on level 3 Links on 99 stock or playing against real players I love writing down every little note and insight I receive (particularly watching videos).

I'm new to Fox and I would like to know if my notes are solid or correct, as well as if there are any other insights of what to add. I really really appreciate it!

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ON Neutral Game:
- SHDL
- Dashdance to bait a move.
- Cover midstage.


ON Ground Presence:
- Running Shine.
- Space with dashdances
- Space with retreating wavedashes
- Dtilt has surprisingly large hitboxes.
- Utilt is great to defend against aerial approaches.
- Ftilt is a solid “Get out of my face” move.


ON Aerial Presence:
- Space the tip of Nair to approach.
- Bair is fast and can interrupt other aerials.
- Uair’s 2nd kick is the sweetspot of the attack.
- Backdrop -> Shine -> Bair is great edgeguarding option.


ON At an Advantage:
- Keep close to enemy.
- Pressure with SHFFL-shines.
- Properly spaced Utilt is safe on shield.


ON Out of Shield:
- JC’ed shine.
- Wavedash OoS.
- Nair.
- Retreating Bair.


ON At a Disadvantage:
- Retreat to platforms.
- Run away SHL.
- Position closer to midstage.
- If hit, DI towards platforms.
- STAY AWAY FROM EDGE OF STAGE.


ON Throws:
- Uthrow, Uthrow, Uthrow.
- B&Fthrow can set up Usmashes.
- Bthrow off ledge > Fthrow off ledge.
-Uair is the best follow up to Uthrow.

Jigglypuff after UThrow -
@ 60-80% Uair will kill.


Other Notes:
- Movement is always integrated with attack advantage.
- Do not let the opponent breath. Even if it is just SHL, keep moving. Dashdance, reverse wavedash. Keep your opponent mentally busy.
- Dream Land 64 and Pokemon stadium are good stages.
- Ban FD against Marth.
- Don’t jump and nair far way. Get close to opponent before nair’ing.
- Fox’s movement options allow for instantaneous momentum change from neutral -> Offensive/Defensive, Offensive -> Defensive, or Defensive -> Offensive. Mix up Off./Def. to keep unpredictable.
- Do not Nair too soon on shield or else you can still get grabbed: http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img849/200/oni.gif

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Add in some laser camping
It can be used at any neutral moment or defensively.
You don't need to ban FD against Marth tbh. Most marth's aren't m2k. You could go for a smaller stage like yoshi or WW for a ban.
Going to a platform is sorta risky. Because you never wanna be above someone in this game so keep that in mind.
You can nair whenever on shield, just shine afterwords if you do early.

 

[Red Dress]

Add in some laser camping
You don't need to ban FD against Marth tbh. Most marth's aren't m2k. You could go for a smaller stage like yoshi or WW for a ban.

Okay! I'll will put those suggestions in my notes. Just a noobie question: What stage is WW?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Okay! I'll will put those suggestions in my notes. Just a noobie question: What stage is WW?

WarioWare
That stage and yoshi's kinda have a lot of the same things going for it, at least for Marth.

 

[Red Dress]

WarioWare
That stage and yoshi's kinda have a lot of the same things going for it, at least for Marth.

Oh! That's P:M stage. I don't play P:M only Melee.

 

[Kadano]

People need to stop confusing Melee for P:M. How does that even happen, lol.

»- Ftilt is a solid “Get out of my face” move.«
I disagree. When people are in your face, ie very close to you, ftilt can easily be shieldgrabbed.
It’s a decent substitute for shield pressure when your opponent is close to the ledge and you space it. Characters like Marth can’t punish it.

 

[Red Dress]

People need to stop confusing Melee for P:M. How does that even happen, lol.

»- Ftilt is a solid “Get out of my face” move.«
I disagree. When people are in your face, ie very close to you, ftilt can easily be shieldgrabbed.
It’s a decent substitute for shield pressure when your opponent is close to the ledge and you space it. Characters like Marth can’t punish it.

What are better options to push a person away to get some breathing room? Or would it be optimal to just use Fox's speed to retreat SHL?

 

[Kadano]

What are better options to push a person away to get some breathing room? Or would it be optimal to just use Fox's speed to retreat SHL?

It really depends on the kind of pressure you are facing. Against slow characters, that sure is a safe move.

 

[BTmoney]

What are better options to push a person away to get some breathing room? Or would it be optimal to just use Fox's speed to retreat SHL?

if someone is "in your face" jabbing, shine, turnaround utilt (situationally) or simply running away cause you're fox are all good options. when you're getting tech chased, shine/jab/spotdoge can get you a lucky break if your opponent is even slightly late. well placed rolls and jumps are under appreciated on this forum because 20xx and everyone forgets that those practically are good options when you don't broadcast them. Retreating SHL is unnecessary for now and sort of in general. If you're being rushed down you should just focus on getting away. Fox is very good at running

also, if you find that you can grab your opponent/grab them more, do it. 100% of the time unless you can kill them by doing something else. Fox is good on the ledge of the stage if you have good tech skill (watch hax, leffen, or m2k's fox on the ledge. even toph makes good use of his invincibility). Just don't put yourself in a bad position for no reason

 

[Red Dress]

if someone is "in your face" jabbing, shine, turnaround utilt (situationally) or simply running away cause you're fox are all good options. when you're getting tech chased, shine/jab/spotdoge can get you a lucky break if your opponent is even slightly late. well placed rolls and jumps are under appreciated on this forum because 20xx and everyone forgets that those practically are good options when you don't broadcast them. Retreating SHL is unnecessary for now and sort of in general. If you're being rushed down you should just focus on getting away. Fox is very good at running

also, if you find that you can grab your opponent/grab them more, do it. 100% of the time unless you can kill them by doing something else. Fox is good on the ledge of the stage if you have good tech skill (watch hax, leffen, or m2k's fox on the ledge. even toph makes good use of his invincibility). Just don't put yourself in a bad position for no reason

I have a question, if Fox's grab range isn't too good and his throws are okay, why grab more, um, or why grab instead of other things?

 

[squirrels4ev]

I have a question, if Fox's grab range isn't too good and his throws are okay, why grab more, um, or why grab instead of other things?

A grab at certain percents on many characters is a guaranteed uthrow->uair IF your opponent doesn't manage to SDI out of the first hit of uair. If you notice they're good at SDIing out of uair you can mix in bair instead of uair and it can mess with their DI. Fox does have a poor standing grab range but if you JC grab out of dash your grab becomes about twice as long if I remember correctly. It's usable, at least. Boost grabbing (dash attack canceled grabs) extends your reach even further but has much more lag than a JC grab so it should only be used as a mixup, if at all.

It might behoove you to take notes on/learn how to chaingrab Fox as Marth so that you know how to DI as Fox to escape it, if you find you're having trouble with Marths chaingrabbing you. I'm in the process of switching to Fox from Marth and I've found that knowledge very useful.

You mentioned staying away from the ledge at a disadvantage and staying close to the enemy at an advantage. The latter is more dependent on your individual playstyle: a controlled Fox at an advantage can easily run away and laser camp, forcing his opponent to overextend and be punished (watch Leffen and M2K for examples); an aggressive Fox at an advantage can afford to be riskier in his offensive, hoping to crush through his opponent's defenses with sheer pressure. The former, however is more dependent on the matchup. Against Marth and Sheik in particular, the ledge is a dangerous place to be if they grab you. Understand, though, that you can also grab them, throw them offstage, and gimp them with shine. The ledge is risky, but can be gambled upon to make comebacks in matches where your disadvantage is too great to win the war of attrition.