Core Brawl - MORE ITEMS, MORE STAGES, MORE FUN! - Alternative Ruleset (For Side-Events mostly)

[xDD-Master]

MORE ITEMS, MORE STAGES, MORE FUN!​

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Hey guys, Akuma from Germany here
Today I want to introduce you to a "mode" in Brawl, that is really refreshing, because it kinda aims for the original spirit of the smash bros. series, while still being competitive playable. I have already run multiple small tournaments for it, and also one at a major (70 people) where ~32 people entered for Core Brawl (Double Elimination Bracket). I will link the videos at the bottom! So here we go! I hope you guys consider a test, because all I can tell you is, that it's really refreshing and a lot of fun People REALLY liked it!​

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BASIC RULESET
(Check this first, basically for the stages):
http://smashboards.com/threads/germa...t-v2-0.334283/


CHANGES / NEW:
Items: ON [Medium]

This Item List:

New COUNTERPICK-Stages​

(Check the linked ruleset above for the already used stages)
Brinstar
Green Greens
Jungle Japes
Norfair
Pictochat
Pirate Ship
Port Town Aero Dive
Rainbow Cruice

New/changed Rule(s):
- Each player/team has 2 Stage-Bans now
- Each player/team can strike 2 Items before every Match. This will be done in 1-2-2-1 System.
- The first match, the winner of the coin-toss or RPS will decide if he choses port or Stage+Item Striking first.​

- After a match is played, the loser can decide if he wants the port or if he can decide who has to start with Item-Striking​

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Example Videos​

Akuma VS. Sodrek (From a small SF): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRTDDXWOnOQ​

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And here a playlist with 5 matches of the tournament Brawl in Berlin 3 where ~32 people entered Core Brawl (The finals got uploaded):​

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZKRYeOVm4UboQmo5DcFecGyV348FSkz_​

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[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

This ruleset is stupid.

All the fun items are turned off.

 

[xDD-Master]

This ruleset is stupid.

All the fun items are turned off.

Fun is subjective. And why the hate?

Did you even try it? You should

 

[Yikarur]

THis ruleset aims for fun with items while being competitive.

The "fun" items you're talking about Jigglysir, are not balanced and fit for competitive play.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Bobombs are present in REGULAR competitive play (Peach) but not in the ITEM LEGAL ruleset?

lame imo

 

[xDD-Master]

Bobombs are present in REGULAR competitive play (Peach) but not in the ITEM LEGAL ruleset?

lame imo

The hell of a reasoning is this? We would turn off Peachs Bob-Ombs all day long if we had the option to do that.

Then again, Peach spawns the Bob-Ombs by herself, while Bob-Ombs in item play spawn randomly. Have fun doing an aerial or smash into a suddenly spawning Bob-Omb.

Srsly, pls, do us all a favor and think before posting, thx.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Srsly, pls, do us all a favor and think before posting, thx.

I think much more than you know

Turn on Pokeballs pls

 

[Delta-cod]

Looking at the item list, I just have a few questions.

It looks like, in general, you turned off super destructive/broken items (bombs, THE FAN, super spicy curry, star, tomato/heart, etc.) However, you have the Cracker Launcher on, which in my experience is an immensely powerful and destructive item. I know players may ban/strike two items per game (in a 1-2-2-1 fashion, which actually doesn't add up to two strikes per player. Perhaps you meant 1-2-1?), but if that's the logic, why not leave in some other, more powerful items?

Also, why have you left out some more tame items, like the Pitfall, Unira (the seaurchin thing), and the Spring? I feel like Smashballs might also be a thing worth keeping around, especially with item bans in mind.

Anyways, as a huge fan of All Brawl (basically this but with less stock/time, and everything is on, characters/stages are randomized each game, FFA), I'm also a huge fan of this ruleset. I'd hope that people in my region would be more prone to hosting side events with this, since All Brawl usually gets a solid turnout at the nationals where it's hosted.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

Looking at the item list, I just have a few questions.

It looks like, in general, you turned off super destructive/broken items (bombs, THE FAN, super spicy curry, star, tomato/heart, etc.) However, you have the Cracker Launcher on, which in my experience is an immensely powerful and destructive item. I know players may ban/strike two items per game (in a 1-2-2-1 fashion, which actually doesn't add up to two strikes per player. Perhaps you meant 1-2-1?), but if that's the logic, why not leave in some other, more powerful items?

1-2-2-1 is just a different way of saying 1-2-1 (it could also be a different thing but using context I think the following explanation makes sense)

1-2-2-1 means Player 1 strikes, then Player 2 strikes, then player 2 strikes again, the player one strikes again

1-2-1 is just a different way of saying the same thing, first player strikes 1, second player strikes 2, first player strikes 1

And I agree about Smashballs and the Spring

And Pokeballs and Assist Trophies should be added in as well.

And Dragoon Parts

And Explosives.

Smash is meant to be a chaotic game at heart, and those are some of the most chaotic items around (every item is chaotic, but those moreso)

Maybe I'll come up with some sort of chaotic ruleset and stop trolling this thread.

 

[Delta-cod]

Oh. You right. I keep thinking of 1-2-2-1 in some sort of context that would mean something else. Probably ports in teams or something.

I'm okay with pokeballs cuz they typically suck (geez how many munchlax can I get), but Assist Trophies are iffy. If you're looking for less random placements, they're kinda hit or miss.

But I do love the chaos. Hence why I'm All Brawl champ. ;o

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Yeah, Cracket Launcher is broken and should be banned.

This should also be tested as a doubles event.

 

[xDD-Master]

Cracker Launcher limits your movement options heavily though, which was the reason I kept it on + as you already pointed out, you can still strike it.
(Spacies probably won't strike it anyway, instead they would prefer to strike franklin badge for example, because it's more useful to the oppenant)

Cracker Launcher wasn't even allowed in one of the older version, but I talked to many people and they said I should keep it on at least for the first few times to see if it turns out to be viable or not. Same applies to Ray Gun btw., I know it's kinda broken sometimes, even though I have no clue if 0-to-deaths ae completely inescapeble sometimes or not, would probably need some really good DI... dunno... does anyone know more?

Pitfall is kinda broken, in the way it works. Just throw it down or to the front and you are done: you laid a powerful tool/trap on the stage.
It also quickly gets overseen or forgotten by the players that someone even put one somewhere, especially when there is a smoke ball too. It can lead to almost instant deaths and/or really powerful combos. It can spawn near you when your oppenant recovers, and that would be basically the stock.
Even though Star Rod also semi spikes, which can be even worse in some situations I guess, it gives you at least multiple uses, more than just this one-time-throw-use, which makes it a more interesting item than the pitfall, the main reason I kept the star rod and banned the pitfall. (If you don't like playing with the star rod, you can strike it)

Unira gives the controlling player a very powerful positional advantage, and has nearly no downsides at all, except that it can potentially be used against you, which applies to every item, so that's not a good reasoning.


That's why I included the Cracker Launcher (& Ray Gun). While they are powerful (Or can be at least), they limit your mobility, one of them extremely!!! Unira & pitfall have no downsides like that. They only need to be thrown, that's it.

And while I love springs myself, they sadly lead to stupid stalling infinites with certain characters :/
I guess, we could just include a no-stalling-rule, but whatever, I wanted to keep it simple ^^


In the end the whole ruleset is still up to changes, if the reasons for it are good and would make the thing better overall.
You are free to try things out yourself. Add some more items if you want, I would love to get feedback on all the legal items but also on some of the items that are banned right now. (If possible, with Videos!)


The only thing I really don't think would be a good idea, is having more than 2 strikes for each player.
As said, I already ran a tournament for it, which turned out great. But even thoughpeople had just 2 strikes, it took some time, and most of the time people didn't even re-strike after the first match (The MU and Stage can really be important for the item selection), because it takes more time and people are lazy. So adding even more strikes, would make the whole striking process even less interesting for people and it would end in a "Smashville?" "OK!" situation, where then, we could just ban 4 more items, and leave out the whole item-striking part in the first place.

But other than that, try out othr items as much as you want
I can only tell you, that this ruleset worked perfectly Some changes to it might not make it worse though, so keep on the experimentions

And don't forget, the ruleset (And therefore the stage + item selection) was mainly done by myself, even though I asked some people beforehand and made some adjustments after I got some feedback, and as I am just a human myself, I won't say this ruleset is perfect. I am sure that there are still some changes possible, that would make it even better.

I wanted to have as many items as possible, while still making it a "tournament-fair" ruleset. I don't want people to rage over the ruleset or stuff happening in the matches, but have fun! That's why I kinda took the middle way. I banned the obvious broken ones, and most grey-area ones, and only kept some of the grey-area items. I think for the first tournament, the item list was really good. (And considering the mostly positive feedback I got, I think I made the correct choice )

 

[Gardex]

Crates should be on because of rolling crates.

Has anyone seen rolling crates in action? I have. We need rolling crates.


Rolling crates.

Also no spring is a weird choice. It is full of potential and isn't broken imo

 

[xDD-Master]

I love rolling crates. But too bad every form of crates has this stupid chance of exploding -.-"
As said, springs lead to stalling infinites. Didn't research any further if they maybe are OK, if we just ban the stalling infinites.
I didnt test ALL the items, I mostly researched the grey-area ones. (I did quite a lot research for them though!)

 

[Ghostbone]

Fire flower and screw attack are both immensely broken items.
And most characters can easily work around the hammer, idk why you'd ban that.

Also timer should totally be on so we can watch people have TAS levels of SDI.

 

[Delta-cod]

Cracker Launcher doesn't limit your mobility in a way that's significant enough to override the power of the item. The only true problem with the item's mobility is the ability to turn around, so if you can manage to cross up your opponent, you're good. Otherwise, you're screwed if your opponent gets the item. Mobility really only comes into account on like, Rainbow Cruise with it, where you need to scale vertical scrolling sections.

Ray Gun is awful, and only limits mobility while shooting it (although this can be said to provide added mobility, since you can walk and jump while shooting). Otherwise you have normal mobility with the character. The item isn't very good though. It doesn't 0-death in this game.

Pitfall goes away in under a minute, to my knowledge. The effect isn't active very long if you lay a trap with it, and if people are FORGETTING about it, that's their problem. It isn't thrown particularly fast or anything either, so it's not really an "easy edgeguard", especially considering it can only be thrown linearly. Most characters can avoid it with little problem.

Most items have little downside at all. Unira is good, but not THAT good.

Just put Spring-stalling under the No-stalling rule, or make a separate rule that states that "Spring-stalling is banned". It's not like it's hard to detect spring-stalling either. It's VERY obvious to see.

Fire Flower is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.

Put in Crates, but don't turn on the exploding crates item. Crates don't explode unless the exploding crate item is on.

 

[-LzR-]

I'm pretty sure you can turn around when using the Cracker Launcher. Anyways it's one of the strongest items out there I have no idea why it's allowed in this ruleset.

 

[Gardex]

You turn around the cracker launcher by dashing

 

[-LzR-]

I see. I do that by pressing the Cstick left or right. It makes you dash or turnaround and shoot at the same time.

 

[Delta-cod]

Yeah, you can't just pivot in place with it to my knowledge, which is the problem with getting crossed up.

 

[WindMajor]

This is similar to the old ISP ruleset, which I was totally in favor of. I think items in Smash tournaments is a really refreshing idea, and I always commend people who put effort into making it work.

My two cents:
-Pokéballs are very low risk/high reward and should not be left in. You grab it, toss it, then forget it. The pokémon can be powerful enough sometimes to just handle things for you, but if not, you're immune to it, so you can just do things yourself. Assist trophies on the other hand at least trap you into using item until your first available frame, introducing more risk to picking one up. I'm still on the fence about assist trophies.

-Hammers should definitely be in. They can be avoided by running to the ledge, and you can hit them out of a hammer if you have a good enough projectile or if you use ledge invincibility to throw out an attack. People who use hammers are also super susceptible to juggles and put themselves at an immediate risk of becoming useless the second they pick up the hammer. Despite being very powerful, the risk/reward ratio is not that disproportionate, so they should be left in.

-Pitfalls should be left in because I said so.

-I think cracker launchers should be left in, but I don't really have an argument for them other than I don't think they're that bad.

-Soccer balls are awesome, leave them in.

-Add more stages! Corneria is a very popular stage that is banned because of infinites, but what are wall infinites when you have ITEMS! :D
Same with walk-offs. Add stages like Distant Planet, Bridge of Eldin, Pictochat, and even WARIO WARE lol. It's hard to make a case against the randomness in WW when you have super powerful items randomly popping in and out.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

-Footballs are awesome, leave them in.

*Fixed

Silly Americans

 

[WindMajor]

Hey Gheb, look at what Sakurai called your oh so precious "football".

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Sakurai is such a fraud.

 

[WindMajor]

Ya'll are just in denial.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

No u!

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

 

[pidgezero_one]

*Fixed

Silly Americans

John Madden John Madden John Madden John Madden John Madden John Madden John Madden John Madden John Madden John Madden John Madden John Madden John Madden John Madden John Madden John Madden John Madden John Madden John Madden John Madden John Madden John Madden John Madden John Madden John Madden John Madden

That aside, I'd love to see my region try a ruleset like this.

 

[SFA Smiley]

I've been trying to get AZ to do AllBrawl for a while but it never happens. Maybe everyone will be open to this one. I'd be down to try it.

 

[xDD-Master]

Did anyone try this out yet? :D

 

[pidgezero_one]

im suggesting it for a side event as we speak

 

[RaptorTEC]

This needs to become a thing.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Um...

Not to hate on this, but Item Standard Play is the same thing items wise but was extensively developed, why not just follow that and add these other stages?

Personally, I'd play this just for the stagelist items of not and it sounds fun, but I do think it's worth noting the work of a predecessor and what they found was worthwhile with each item to use as a LOT of people contributed to that project.

 

[Zink Imp]

I think that this would be great fun to watch in doubles matches.

 

[xDD-Master]

This needs to become a thing.

Try to convince your local TOs to try it out :3

Thats all you / we can do :s (As I am a host myself, I already did my job when I added this, tournament had about 30 people entering and it was fun =) )

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Try to convince your local TOs to try it out :3

Thats all you / we can do :s (As I am a host myself, I already did my job when I added this, tournament had about 30 people entering and it was fun =) )

Read ISP and fix your list.
ATs are balanced.

 

[Yobolight]

filthy casuals....

 

[xDD-Master]

filthy casuals....

This got nothing to do with being casual or something. Try it out first, before judging it

 

[Super FOG]

Am I the only who will ask why the Smash Ball is off?!

I'm a diehard lover of Final Smashes, and the very unique mechanic of the Smash Ball is something that should be appreciated in a competitive fashion

The Smash Ball is a mind-manipulating item, since only one appears on the field at a time and grants the players with your most powerful attack. The only way to get it is by hitting the ball with attacks, and doing this at the same time you're engaged into combat against your opponent is incredibly hard (unless your opponent acts like a lugworm or is a CPU), making the task of getting one a pure player's skill.

Surely, there are some overpowered FSes such as Super Sonic and the Landmaster trio, but also the player must know how to deal with these characters and be able to control the field.

 

[MopedOfJustice]

Am I the only who will ask why the Smash Ball is off?!

I'm a diehard lover of Final Smashes, and the very unique mechanic of the Smash Ball is something that should be appreciated in a competitive fashion

The Smash Ball is a mind-manipulating item, since only one appears on the field at a time and grants the players with your most powerful attack. The only way to get it is by hitting the ball with attacks, and doing this at the same time you're engaged into combat against your opponent is incredibly hard (unless your opponent acts like a lugworm or is a CPU), making the task of getting one a pure player's skill.

Surely, there are some overpowered FSes such as Super Sonic and the Landmaster trio, but also the player must know how to deal with these characters and be able to control the field.

You can't deal with Super Sonic. Landmasters are doable, but SS is OP, and Sonic will reliably get it every time, as his opponent is "too slow."