Computers do the darnest things

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I play brawl alot. but not online, because i dont have it.

i usually play against level 9 computers for the lulz and i'll be they do the craziest/dumbest things i've ever seen.

i almost think playing a level 9 computer is more fun then playing a real live player.

have you guys ever got a srs "WTF" moment when playing a computer?
or maybe you completely obliterated that computer.

still, i thought this be a cool thing to discuss or to post videos of such CRAAZZYYness.

 

[Alphatron]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTCAs8WtYY0

 

[Rsd]

I had one in All-Star mode the other day.
I was fighting Sheik on the bow of the Pirate Ship, and Toon Link starts coming towards us. He manages gets to the catapult right as it fires, sending him flying right past us and offscreen.

 

[Tinnitus]

I was fighting a lvl 9 C.Falcon at Norfair, when the right lava wall came in, he literally jumped into it not only once, but again after he got up. :/

It was pretty funny.

 

[Blissard]

When a CPU Jigglypuff used sing...

 

[ludvigpasse]

When a CPU Jigglypuff used sing...

That move is underrated, it can be used to combo into rest at the edges for example, or inf stalling at the edge, since it autocanceln if you grab the edge.

 

[Zatchiel]

That move is underrated, it can be used to combo into rest at the edges for example, or inf stalling at the edge, since it autocanceln if you grab the edge.

On the very rare occasion that your opponent isn't thinking and walks right into a slow move...

Anyways, i play computers all the time nowadays, literally. Just 2 weeks ago i got Falcon Punched by a CPU after a jump from the ledge > Airdodge, which got baited, horrendously

 

[Blissard]

On the very rare occasion that your opponent isn't thinking and walks right into a slow move...

Lololol I was about to say the same exact thing. Practically no one falls for ledge-cancelled sing. And I've seen some humans miss rest even when the opponent is asleep, haha. Jiggly is practically my second, and never do I use sing. Ever.

And gimping cpu Links is funnnn...

 

[Beif]

This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5klknMoRexI

 

[Benify]

I have been winning alot of brawl matches with friends online, and for some reason I think my wins is affecting the way the CPUs play on my game. They used to be crappy, but now when I decided to play in vs mode, I almost lost a life because I let my guard down.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I get a lot of WTF moments against the Brawl CPUs, mainly when they always shield grab me; I HATE it whenever a level 1 CPU does that. Basically, they're more unpredictable, unlike the Melee CPUs.

In Melee, the CPUs can be rather predictable, and some can even SD themselves.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I have been winning alot of brawl matches with friends online, and for some reason I think my wins is affecting the way the CPUs play on my game. They used to be crappy, but now when I decided to play in vs mode, I almost lost a life because I let my guard down.

CPUS WILL ADAPT TO YOUR PLAY STYLE.

trust me.

 

[MacNCheese.]

It's kinda weird. Before level 9's were garbage, now their impossible! D:<
I think it goes on your wins/losses

 

[Kiru]

It's kinda weird. Before level 9's were garbage, now their impossible! D:<
I think it goes on your wins/losses

It has been proven that the Lvl 9 CPU's have AI and will steal moves and learn from repeated losses to a strategy.

Here is a video that shows how a CPU will learn to evade a certain move that wrecked it before, even after mixing it up for a while.

Here is the video.

 

[Life]

CPUs have been proven (via replay data) not to learn in between games.

It seems to me that they do adapt within a single game, however. But I could be wrong on this.

 

[Kiru]

CPUs have been proven (via replay data) not to learn in between games.

It seems to me that they do adapt within a single game, however. But I could be wrong on this.

Then how come some CPU's do things that took players years to figure out during legit non-ditto replays?

 

[Life]

Doesn't matter how.

1. Get a replay against a CPU with no changed AI files.
2. Using file replacement code, swap out changed AI files for regular ones (IIRC, blank ones work best, there's a thread in workshop general somewhere IDR that has a couple good ones for Ike).
3. Play the replay. If you did it correctly, you'll notice a desync.

This shows that the game does not record AI inputs in replays, only human ones (remember, replay files are text, not video). So if the AI files change, the replays change. In order for the AI to learn, the AI must change. So learning AI = old replays desyncing. Now to be fair, I have seen one user (the guy with a koopa avy, name escapes me ATM) claim that his old replay files with computers have all desync'd on their own without hacks. He was ignored in that thread. I personally have not noticed a change in any of my oldest replays, but the anecdote is there, if perhaps not verifiable.

The only other way this could be refuted was if the AI's variables got saved into the replay (by this I mean the AI has certain set commands, and then collects data on what commands work best in what situations--basically pattern recognition), which is a bit of a stretch, but eh.

 

[Kiru]

Doesn't matter how.

1. Get a replay against a CPU with no changed AI files.
2. Using file replacement code, swap out changed AI files for regular ones (IIRC, blank ones work best, there's a thread in workshop general somewhere IDR that has a couple good ones for Ike).
3. Play the replay. If you did it correctly, you'll notice a desync.

This shows that the game does not record AI inputs in replays, only human ones (remember, replay files are text, not video). So if the AI files change, the replays change. In order for the AI to learn, the AI must change. So learning AI = old replays desyncing. Now to be fair, I have seen one user (the guy with a koopa avy, name escapes me ATM) claim that his old replay files with computers have all desync'd on their own without hacks. He was ignored in that thread. I personally have not noticed a change in any of my oldest replays, but the anecdote is there, if perhaps not verifiable.

The only other way this could be refuted was if the AI's variables got saved into the replay (by this I mean the AI has certain set commands, and then collects data on what commands work best in what situations--basically pattern recognition), which is a bit of a stretch, but eh.

Hmm, I would assume that the replays are just mimicing every action frame per frame, and not placing the AI with all random variables set for what they were last match, and pitting it against the player's shadow praying for the same result.

We do not have any proof of a hackless desync, and the hacked desyncs could have been a result of the hack clearing ALL the AI data, even the set random variables from before keeping the match set. The game then has to either re-select the random variables using the math:random (If the game was in lua, which its not... Its just the only coding language I know atm) command, giving low chances of giving the same result as before, or simply putting the randoms on a default and then causing the desync unless the entire match was done with the AI's random variables happening to be the default ones.

This means the theory that the game pits the current AI set could be demolished. MY theory regarding replays is either...

1)It has the saved AI state for each replay
2)Command by command each character is controlled by the computer on the exact frames as last time. We might even find a pause command issued if the player paused during the match, and the game would simply turn pausing off for the match.

Supporting theory 2, All the items and random events (Peach's random items Via B-Down) would have to be recorded, so I believe that it would be easiest to just record every command issued along with the result of each random variable contained in such commands.

Holy snap this post was long. xP

 

[eschemat]

Computers own... I used to main Falco and CG Spiked them 24/7 and now my Falco Comp does that against me.

HAX?

 

[FRiSKruns]

This: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5klknMoRexI

wow, you got robbed 0.0
that CPU is just 2gud lol the CPUs are adapting, and yet... they're still often just terrible...

ie. Daisy(Peach) floating off to her doom on an edgeless stage

 

[Darkshooter]

Im not even mad about them CPUs. Im impressed. Soon theyll start playing like Mew2King and Ally.

 

[Photos]

a Lvl 9 peach t-bagged me once. no joke. probably just bad online influence. but it was a definite t-bagging.

 

[Sunnysunny]

My computers know how to rage quit.

I took 2 of the level 9 yoshis stocks via footstool and gimping as metaknight within 20 seconds, and on the last stock he just double jumped off the ledge after respawning. ._.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Snake did that to me once, i was CF and i kneed him in the face and next stock he SD'ed.

i laughed hysterically.

 

[Claire Diviner]

When playing against anyone, my playstyle (especially with R.O.B.) revolves around constant direction changing - resulting in making R.O.B. looking like he's spinning - and excessive crouching up and down. After about several months, I noticed the CPU suddenly mimicking my own mindgames, though they don't seem to utilize them the way I do, but the fact they started doing it caught me by surprise. Whether it was the CPU learning my strategy or simply a random action, I have seen it more than once. Maybe if I dash dance enough, the CPU may catch on to that too? ^ω^

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, one thing I always do as Peach, is simply run off the stage into a forward aerial on an opponent recovering from below for a KO. Peach CPUs as far as I know were never known to do that. So this morning, when fighting a Peach CPU with R.O.B., I use Robo Burner to recover from below and she outright runs off that stage and nearly stage spikes me with her Bair - another way (as well as my favorite way) I net KOs with Peach. XD

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

I Hate the Brawwl CPUs baecause they are racist hate human players.

They always play like they want to be a part of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVxxDDNX_t0
but with a 3 vs 1.

They also love to grab release me into crap like Warlock Punch and Hazards and such.

And somehow a Human player getting KO'd constitutes a taunt party.

This is why my cousins don't like to play Brawl by themselves and why I never play without hax.