Data Complete Frame Data Repository - kuroganehammer.com

Lavani · Nov 20, 2015

Necessary double post, as edits don't tag.

The first hit of Yoshi Bomb should be marked as ground-only.
Star Bits should be 13-16f, 17-20f, 21-24f for active hitboxes. Your starting numbers for hits 2 and 3 have hitlag factored into them; they aren't projectiles, so Luma gets lagged by them too. (though the known hitlag formula suggests it should be 3 frames for 2.8% and your numbers suggest it's 2; maybe that formula's off slightly?)
Wario's ftilt and fsmash and Olimar's jabs and ftilt seem to have hand intangibility, despite it not being listed in MasterCore. It might just be that their hurtboxes don't adjust to the enlarged limbs, though.
Double Team (Lucario's counter) is invincible for the counter frame duration as well as for the active frames on the counterattack.
Super Dedede Jump has a few intangible frames at the beginning of the jump both grounded and airborne, and has super armor on the way up as well as on the drop. During the active frames, Dedede's feet are also intangible.
Minor; there is a random / on the "Jigglypuff's data has been added!" update.

EDIT:
And Rosalina's shorthop should be 51 frames, as she has 1 frame to act out of sh dair before landing.

GunGuts · Nov 20, 2015

Thank you Lavani. Got some more inquiries. Mario's and the Dr's fairs have a gap at frame 20. Is that a typo or does that mean there's no hitbox on that frame? Second, what does "Cannot rebound" mean?

Edit: I'm assuming Cannot rebound is when an attack can't clank with another attack, correct? I know that Little Mac has this unique property.

Lavani · Nov 21, 2015

For Mario's fair, the middle hitbox should still be active on frame 20, and for Doc the late hit should be.

"Cannot rebound" means an attack can clank, but it isn't interrupted if it does. Let's say you're Little Mac, attacking a fireball thrown by Luigi.

If you dash attack it, you'll clank the fireball and be stuck in a rebound animation for a bit before you're able to move again.
If you jab it, you'll clank the fireball but won't rebound, continuing your jab and being able to act normally afterward.
If you use a down-angled fsmash, the attacks don't interact with each other at all and Little Mac will be hit by the fireball.

Which incidentally made me realize,

KuroganeHammer all of Mac's jabs and his dtilt should be marked as "Cannot rebound"
Also are there plans to mark which moves are transcendent? I could probably list all of those out tonight or something.

KuroganeHammer · Nov 21, 2015

Hmm yes I think that would be useful at some point I'm sure.

I'll poke a stick at this tonight maybe but I'm going to a Major next week so it might be when I get back.

Aquasition · Nov 25, 2015

why am I getting a spam website when I try to access Kurogane Hammer? It was working before, what happened?

Zapp Branniglenn · Nov 25, 2015

Aquasition said:
why am I getting a spam website when I try to access Kurogane Hammer? It was working before, what happened?

Could very well be malware. Be sure to run an antivirus scan and look around in your computer's installed programs for suspicious sounding software. Googling the name of any malware agents tends to result in yahoo answers and other message boards of people asking what it is.

Aquasition · Nov 25, 2015

Ok, so I've jsut run my computer through an antivirus scan, and now when I try to enter Kurogane Hammer, I get ww9 instead of www.kuroganehammer.com. And no, forcing the 9 into a w isn't working. I don't know enough about viruses to know what kind of virus this is. What kind of virus could it be?

Note that it's better than beforehand, because at least I just can't access kurogane hammer, instead of getting redirected.

EDIT: It's a zeroredirect1. Ech. Any ideas for removing it? (note: I'm using a Mac 10.10)

2ND EDIT: I can access Kurogane Hammer again, but I don't feel like I've removed it yet. Will keep a watch for if this happens again

Masonomace · Nov 25, 2015

I really dig the website now that everything is 1.1.2. My only feedback to give for now would be to add some missing Shield Damage modifiers seen in this pastebin, or updated from previous patches:

Base Dmg. (+SD)

Whirling Foretress (Aerial, Hit 1) | 10% (+3)

Dash Attack | 10% (+1)
Dash Attack (Late) | 6% (+1)
Raptor Boost (Attack, Ground) | 9% (+4)
Raptor Boost (Attack, Aerial) | 8% (+2)

Dash Attack | 11% (+1)
Dash Attack (Late) | 8% (+1)

Dash Attack | 8.96% (+1)
Dash Attack (Late) | 6.72% (+1)
Super Sheet | 7.84% (+4)

Dash Attack | 10% (+1)
Dash Attack (Late) | 7% (+1)
Dtilt | 8% (+1)

Dash Attack | 9% (+1)
Dash Attack (Late) | 6% (+1)
Fthrow (Hit 1) | 4% (+1)

Dash Attack | 7% (+1)
Substitute every direction grounded & aerial | (+5)

Ftilt (All Angles) | 12.5% (+1)
Eruption | 9% (+1)
Eruption (Fully charged) | 35%/28%/26% (+30)

Fthrow (Hit 1) | 5% (+1)
Pound | 11% (+20)

Super Dedede Jump (Landing) | 11% (+3)

Fthrow (Hit 1) | 3% (+1)
Bthrow (Hit 1) | 3% (+1)
Dthrow (Hit 1) | 3% (+1)

Fsmash (Angled Down) | 22% (+4)

Aura Sphere (Full Charge) | 25% (+3)

Fsmash (High, normal, & Low) | 15% (+5)

Dash Attack | 8% (+1)
Dash Attack (Late) | 6% (+1)
Cape | 7% (+4)

Crash Bomber (Explosion) | 1% (+1)

Fthrow (Hit 1) | 2% (+1)

Blade Flurry (No Charge, Hit 5) | 0.5% (+1)

Dash Attack (Hit 3) | 5% (+1)

Dsmash (Windbox) | 0% (+1)
Reflect Barrier | 5% (+1)

Usmash | 17%/15%/12%/12% (+4)
Usmash (Late) | 10%/12% (+4)
Toad everything | 2% (+1)
Peach Bomber (Hitbox) | 10% (+6)

Dash Attack (Hit 1) | 7% (+1)
Dash Attack (Hit 2) | 4% (+1)

Fthrow (Hit 1) | 5% (+1)
Bthrow (Hit 1) | 5% (+1)
Uthrow (Hit 1) | 3% (+1)
Dthrow (Hit 1) | 3% (+1)

Back Slash | 10%/9%/16%/14% (+7)
Back Slash (Landing) | 10%/9%/15%/13% (+10)

Fthrow (Hit 1) | 3% (+1)
Dthrow (Hit 1) | 3% (+1)
═════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════════
Soo yeah. Throws having extra shield damage modifiers. .what even?? Then again, I've killed one of my team partners with Lucario's Uthrow up close which was hilarious.

Also, I edited this post to suggest missing Ground-Targeted & Aerial-Targeted color codings for moves seen in this pastebin, or from previous patches. The coloring I did in the table below was optional. Otherwise, putting in a "(Grounded only)" under the Hitbox active column alone suffices as seen here.

Questions: Should rows get added if an entry from the pastebin show that there's a ground-targeted or aerial-targeted only hitbox for it? Examples:

*NEW ROW* Ftilt (Final Hit) | 23 (Grounded only) | 3 | 50 | 30 | 190

*NEW ROW* Dair (Late) | 22-26 (Grounded only) | 8 | 361 | 30 | 100

In the pastebin, Charizard's Usmash (Hit 1) frame data says it's Grounded only, but the Charizard frame data on kuroganehammer.com has it as Aerial only. Either or, I'm bringing it up to figure out what's right or wrong.

This is what is seen for ZSS' frame data on kuroganehammer.com:

Utilt (Hit 1) | 3-4 (Cannot Rebound, Legs Intangible: 3-10) | 5 | 130/150 | 55/85 | 30/50

But the pastebin has it the opposite. 130 is ground-only, 150 is aerial-only, 55 is ground, 85 is aerial, 30 is ground, 50 is aerial. So either or, I just wanted to bring it up to figure out what's right or wrong.

And finally, I know that you have phrases like "(Landing)" or "(Launcher)" that entail they're ground-only, but I wanted to add in "(Grounded only)" in the Hitbox Active column anyway, 'cus some people may not catch on to Launcher or Landing being strictly ground-targeted only.

Disclaimer: My color codings might not be 100% correct <3.

Usmash | 10-24 (Rehit rate: 4) | 1.3 | 110 / 190 / 140 | W: 12 / 17 / 50

Falcon Kick (Landing) | 2-3 (Grounded only) | 9 | 80 | 80 | 20

Usmash (Hit 1) | 6 (Aerial? Grounded only?) | 5 | 110 | W: 100 | 100

Dair (Landing) | 1-2 (Grounded only) | 2.24 | 361 | 50 | 160

Dair | 22-23 | 15 / 15 /8 | 270 / 361 /361 | 20 | 90 / 100 /100

Wizard's Foot (Landing) | 2-3 (Grounded only) | 8 | 80 | 80 | 35

Usmash (Late) | 30-31 (Grounded only) | 10 | 65 | 50 | 85

Usmash (Grounded only) | 10 (Super Armor: 8-11) | 20 | 86 | 40 | 80
KO Punch (Windbox) | 4-5 | 0 | 10 | 100 | 100

Usmash (Launcher) | 13-14 (Grounded only) | 3 | 125 | W: 155 | 100

Dair | 16 | 13 | 270 / 70 | 10 / 30 | 80 / 100
Side 1: Onslaught (Attack, Ground) | 4-17 (Rehit rate: 5) | 1.2 | 95 / 366 | W: 10 | 1000 typo?
Side 1: Onslaught (Attack, Aerial) | 4-17 (Rehit rate: 5) | 1 | 95 / 366 | W: 10 | 1000 typo?
Side 3: Headache Maker | 18-19 | 13 / 10 /13 | 45 / 270 /45 | 30 | 120 / 100 /120
Side 3: Headache Maker (Landing) | 1-2 (Grounded only) | 4 | 361 | 60 | 100

Usmash (Hit 1) | 11-12 | 3 | 110/ 110 / 110 /180 | 70/ 70 / 30 /40 | 25

Neutral 1: Gale Strike (Windbox) | 74- | 0 | 86 / 20 | 80 / 55 | 100
Up 2: Skyward Slash Dash (Hit 2-6) | 29-30, 33-34, 37-38, 41-42, 45-46 | 1 | 366 / 55 / 366 / 45 | 30 / 50 / 30 / 80 | 30
Down 3: Power Thrust (Air, Landing) | 2-3 (Grounded only) | 7 | 80 | 80 | 20

Utilt (Hit 6) | 16 (Aerial only) | 4 | 90 | 50 | 120

Dash Attack (Windbox) | 3-9 (Grounded only) | 0 | 361 | W: 12 | 100

Dair (Landing) | 1-2 (Grounded only) | 4 | 361 | 50 | 100
Thunder Jolt (Arc, Early) | 1-30 | 6 / 5 | 361 | 25 / 13 | 20
Thunder Jolt (Arc) | 31-60 | 5 / 4 | 361 | 25 / 13 | 20
Thunder Jolt (Arc, Late) | 61-81? | 4 / 3 | 361 | 25 / 13 | 20

Dair | 20-21 | 12/ 11 / 11 /6 | 80/ 280 / 45 /361 | 10/ 20 / 30 /10 | 100/ 110 / 100 /100

Screw Attack (Ground, Hits 2-4) | 7-8, 9-10, 11-12 | 1 | 96 | W: 178 / 178 / 140 | 100
Screw Attack (Ground, Hits 5-10) | 13-14, 15-16, 17-18, 19-20, 21-22, 23-24 | 1 | 110 / 110 / 100 | W: 50 / 50 / 80 | 100
Screw Attack (Air, 4-7) | 11-12, 13-14, 15-16, 17-18 | 1 | 366 / 366 / 100 | B: 25 / 25 W: 50 | 0 / 0 / 100
Screw Attack (Air, 8-11) | 19-20, 21-22, 23-24, 25-26 | 1 | 366 / 366 / 100 | B: 25 / 25 W: 50 | 0 / 0 / 100

Uair | 4-15 (Rehit rate: 4) | 1 | 90 / 366 | 30 | 100

Dair (Hit 1) | 14-15 | 5 / 7 | 172 / 160 | W: 20 | 100
Dair (Hit 2) | 23-24 | 11 /11/10 | 270 /361/361 | 10 /10/55 | 90 /85/85

Utilt (Hit 1) | 7 (Grounded only) | 2 | 96 | W: 100 | 100
Dair | 19-22 | 8 | 70 / 285 | 80 / 30 | 70 / 90

Usmash (Early) | 11 | 13 | 100 /96/96 | 43 | 94
Dsmash (Hit 1) |9-10 | 7 / 6 /6 | 70 / 170 /168 | 40 /W: 60 / 140 | 100

Bair (Hits 1-2) | 11, 17 | 2.5 | 361 / 366 | 50 / 30 | 150 / 200
Yoshi Bomb (Hit 1) | 7 (Grounded only) | 4 | 80 | W: 80 | 100

Nayru's Love | 13-24 (Rehit rate: 4, Intangible: 5-12, Reflects: 5-43) | 2/ 1 | 160 | 12 | 40

TheReflexWonder · Dec 4, 2015

Just noting that SDI/hitlag multipliers would be really nice to see, instead of having to check Master Core or a pastebin on the stats of 1.04 moves.

KuroganeHammer · Dec 4, 2015

Hello.

People might be wondering why the character subforum threads were removed; that was not my doing.

I've had numerous complaints about it already so I just want to mention who did it and why.

The people who deleted it were the admins of Smashboards and the reasoning is because Smashboards is a website the main concern for them is to make $ money $ from traffic. Despite the fact that kuroganehammer.com has no interactions for users (no forums, no ads, etc) they still see it as a threat of sorts to their traffic (and therefore cash flow). It's honestly silly for them to think the site is siphoning traffic but otherwise there's really no other reason they have to remove it.

I know it's inconvenient but there's nothing I can do about it. So I can only suggest that you bookmark the site or something. Please direct all complaints to website staff or to Forum Support, not to me.

Thanks xoxo

Radical Larry · Dec 4, 2015

KuroganeHammer Is there a reason why Lucario's Base Damage is twice that it is in-game at Base? I could swear Lucario's Base Damage, since I've played him on Training for accurate results, is half of what it is on the site.

Any reason to it?

Ghostbone · Dec 4, 2015

Aura actually scales down at low %s.
His base damage is his damage at neutral aura which is around 70% (a Lucario main would know better), at 0% he does half his base damage.

That's just the way the aura formula works.

Radical Larry · Dec 4, 2015

Ghostbone said:
Aura actually scales down at low %s.
His base damage is his damage at neutral aura which is around 70% (a Lucario main would know better), at 0% he does half his base damage.

That's just the way the aura formula works.

But it's horribly misleading to people who don't know the formula.

I'd suggest some additional stats to put in there for people who may take this the wrong way; Zero-Base Damage, Aura Minimal Damage and Aura Maximum Damage would work wonders for Lucario since he is a unique character. But that's Kurogane's job, I suppose.

Sinister Slush · Dec 4, 2015

Man this generation sucks.

Radical Larry · Dec 4, 2015

Sinister Slush said:
Man this generation sucks.

Well you make it seem the last generation is stereotypically worse.

You have to understand the fundamentals that go with a character having their damage stats. Characters in the site, except for Lucario, have their raw base damage taken accordingly to the characters per updates. It would seem reasonable for the site to do something more with Lucario by adding on the Zero Damage and Max Damage. There's always the probability that someone will try maining Lucario and see what his frame data is first before starting some practice with him; they may go in and expect him to do the base damage stated on the site, but then realize they're doing pretty much half of what the site had put up on there.

So I'm just suggesting a three-way category for No Aura (Zero-Damage), Minimal Aura and Maximum Aura damage counters so people may not make these mistakes. I might be making a hypothesis, but in the long run, it'd help and make it easier for people to understand how much Lucario can change.

KuroganeHammer · Dec 12, 2015

I think it'll be patch time soon, with that patch I'll go through and likely add Cloud's data ASAP and also fix any small errors that have been brought up here. I'll also see if I can add hitlag modifiers somewhere (though IDK where, maybe its own page or something).

TriTails · Dec 12, 2015

KuroganeHammer I have found out that Luigi's shorthop F-air + D-air autocancels. I have done this on opponents (Therefore experiencing hitlag, which made the timing easier) and without opponents as well (I had to be frame perfect tho).

So according to your site, Luigi's SH time is 47 frames. But F-air's FAF combined with D-air's autocancels make up 24 + 24(Or 25?) = 48 or 49 frames.

I know I've done this multiple times before, and an user in our board has also said it works for him. Maybe you can check? Because if Luigi only stays in the air for 47 frames in a shorthop then this wouldn't work.

Note I had to be frame perfect. Flub even one frame and I think it will fail.

Fox Is Openly Deceptive · Dec 13, 2015

TriTails said:
KuroganeHammer I have found out that Luigi's shorthop F-air + D-air autocancels. I have done this on opponents (Therefore experiencing hitlag, which made the timing easier) and without opponents as well (I had to be frame perfect tho).

So according to your site, Luigi's SH time is 47 frames. But F-air's FAF combined with D-air's autocancels make up 24 + 24(Or 25?) = 48 or 49 frames.

I know I've done this multiple times before, and an user in our board has also said it works for him. Maybe you can check? Because if Luigi only stays in the air for 47 frames in a shorthop then this wouldn't work.

Note I had to be frame perfect. Flub even one frame and I think it will fail.

Fair's first actionable frame is on frame 24, i.e. the first frame of Dair would happen on frame 24, then Dair's first autocancel frame is on frame 24, i.e. if you land on that frame it will autocancel, so it makes perfect sense that a SH buffered Fair to Dair would autocancel. If you were to work it out your way you'd want to say 23 + 23, so you actually have an extra frame to play with, i.e. if you didn't do Fair during the jump-squat frames or on frame 6 of the SH (the first airborne frame), and instead did the Fair on frame 7 and then buffered the Dair (10 frame window), you would still autocancel.

TriTails · Dec 13, 2015

Fox Is Openly Deceptive said:
Fair's first actionable frame is on frame 24, i.e. the first frame of Dair would happen on frame 24, then Dair's first autocancel frame is on frame 24, i.e. if you land on that frame it will autocancel, so it makes perfect sense that a SH buffered Fair to Dair would autocancel. If you were to work it out your way you'd want to say 23 + 23, so you actually have an extra frame to play with, i.e. if you didn't do Fair during the jump-squat frames or on frame 6 of the SH (the first airborne frame), and instead did the Fair on frame 7 and then buffered the Dair (10 frame window), you would still autocancel.

Ah. That makes sense. Thanks.

But wait... F-air's end frame is on frame 23. Alright. But why 23 + 23? Shouldnt it be 23 + 24? Because D-air doesn't autocancel on frame 23, and autocancel frames start to count after we input the aerial right? So if D-air's first frame were to happen on frame 24, it would autocancel 'till frame 28, and start to autocancel again at frame 47. Am I calculating this correctly?

Fox Is Openly Deceptive · Dec 13, 2015

TriTails said:
Ah. That makes sense. Thanks.

But wait... F-air's end frame is on frame 23. Alright. But why 23 + 23? Shouldnt it be 23 + 24? Because D-air doesn't autocancel on frame 23, and autocancel frames start to count after we input the aerial right? So if D-air's first frame were to happen on frame 24, it would autocancel 'till frame 28, and start to autocancel again at frame 47. Am I calculating this correctly?

I only said 23 + 23 because you were thinking along the lines of 'frames needed in the air', but it's not important. You can just ignore it and focus on the fact that SH Fair to Dair has a 1 frame leniency in order to autocancel. Whatever helps you understand.

Zapp Branniglenn · Dec 15, 2015

KuroganeHammer I've just confirmed all of Luigi's throws are weight based. What method did you use to track down which throws are weight-based initially? Was it something in the game's code, or did you check manually? Luigi's Dthrow being weight based would have been a huge detail that we wouldn't miss before. But it is now. And we don't have evidence of throws being changed to weight based via patches. Is there any chance at all you missed something and it's always been this way? If not, this is something we really need to look out for in the future.

Oh, and more importantly, Luigi's Dthrow being weight dependent is great news for all heavyweights. 18 endlag on Jigglypuff, 26 on Bowser.

KuroganeHammer · Dec 15, 2015

I think I checked sixriver, or maybe I just ****ed up the template.

Vipermoon · Dec 15, 2015

What are Roy's counter knockback values? It definitely isn't 90 base because it doesn't inflict tumble knockback at low percents.

Zapp Branniglenn · Dec 15, 2015

KuroganeHammer said:
I think I checked sixriver, or maybe I just ****ed up the template.

Went through the cast. The following normal throws are in fact weight dependent:

Luigi's Dthrow and Uthrow
All four of Yoshi's throws
Diddy Kong's Fthrow and Bthrow

Also, the following weight dependent throws are not:
Bowser Jr's Dthrow
Diddy Kong's Uthrow and Dthrow

I can confirm everything else on your site as of 1.12. Looks like simple mistakes. With next patch coming soon, I'm not going to overlook the possibility of throws being made to be weight based, but I don't think this proves that that has ever happened in prior patches.

Vipermoon · Dec 15, 2015

Wow no wonder original hoo haa was so good

KuroganeHammer · Dec 15, 2015

Jrs dthrow is, that's why it does more damage to bowser than it does to jiggs

Zapp Branniglenn · Dec 15, 2015

KuroganeHammer said:
Jrs dthrow is, that's why it does more damage to bowser than it does to jiggs

That...would be a pretty cool mechanic for weight based throws. In any case, it's 7% damage for both targets.

KuroganeHammer · Dec 15, 2015

Zapp Branniglenn said:
That...would be a pretty cool mechanic for weight based throws. In any case, it's 7% damage for both targets.

How many hits?

Zapp Branniglenn · Dec 15, 2015

KuroganeHammer said:
How many hits?

7 multihits, one finisher. 8 total for both characters.

KuroganeHammer · Dec 15, 2015

Zapp Branniglenn said:
7 multihits, one finisher. 8 total for both characters.

Then it's been changed from weight dependent to non-weight dependent. Because in previous patches it was weight dependent.

Zapp Branniglenn · Dec 15, 2015

KuroganeHammer said:
Then it's been changed from weight dependent to non-weight dependent. Because in previous patches it was weight dependent.

You're sure this mechanic existed on the move? Heavy targets were hit more for additional damage? I've heard of nothing like that for any throw. What I do know is that the move was changed in 1.04. Used to hit 10 times total. Perhaps this is what you remember?

KuroganeHammer · Dec 15, 2015

Zapp Branniglenn said:
You're sure this mechanic existed on the move? Heavy targets were hit more for additional damage? I've heard of nothing like that for any throw. What I do know is that the move was changed in 1.04. Used to hit 10 times total. Perhaps this is what you remember?

http://smashboards.com/threads/soci...troduce-yourself.324278/page-54#post-19334339

Documentation

Kofu · Dec 16, 2015

What makes a throw different when it's weight-dependent versus not?

Paper Maribro · Dec 16, 2015

Kofu said:
What makes a throw different when it's weight-dependent versus not?

The whole animation takes longer. The most noticeable thing it affects is the first actionable frame from the throw. For example down throw Bowser and Jigglypuff as Falcon. If you try and immediately dash out of the throw, you can feel it is much slower when throwing Bowser than Jigglypuff hence why buffered down throw > knee is a true combo on particularly light characters. If you did the same thing with Diddy's down throw you'll notice it's identical between characters when you can act out of the throw.

Kofu · Dec 16, 2015

Paper Maribro said:
The whole animation takes longer. The most noticeable thing it affects is the first actionable frame from the throw. For example down throw Bowser and Jigglypuff as Falcon. If you try and immediately dash out of the throw, you can feel it is much slower when throwing Bowser than Jigglypuff hence why buffered down throw > knee is a true combo on particularly light characters. If you did the same thing with Diddy's down throw you'll notice it's identical between characters when you can act out of the throw.

So it's an animation issue, not knockback. That makes a lot more sense, thanks.

epicnights · Dec 16, 2015

A lot of the character pages have "?" for the FH and SH air times. will these ever get added?

KuroganeHammer · Dec 25, 2015

epicnights said:
A lot of the character pages have "?" for the FH and SH air times. will these ever get added?

I've added all of them.

Runic_SSB · Dec 27, 2015

Is Lucas always going to be Ridley?

KuroganeHammer · Dec 27, 2015

Runic_SSB said:
Is Lucas always going to be Ridley?

probably

nannerham · Dec 27, 2015

I believe lucario's run speed needs to be updated, he now runs at the exact same speed as game and watch (1.5264)

Data Complete Frame Data Repository - kuroganehammer.com

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