[Competitive Discussion] Let's learn together

[2k6]

Finally hit 10 post. This is what I was talking about though. I'm sure this is well known, but feel free to use it in your guide or whatever if you think that it will suffice.

http://youtu.be/8xmF6nrgbNY

Another tech for Olimar! ILY SO MUCH NO HOMO

 

[Ampetrix]

- Thrown Pikmin can be Pocketed by Villager. I'm not sure if this, as well as Rosalina's Down B, also applies to smash attacks.

I tried pocketing White,Blue,Yellow, and Red pikmin when it is thrown, but it doesn't seem to work BUT I can pocket Purple ones. I think the purple ones can be caught by Villager since he counts as a projectile and the other pikmin can't be blocked by a shield. Also once the pikmin is thrown back, they immediately die. Does the captured pikmin still "exist" so that Olimar can pluck up another one?

Concerning the F smash or U smash, I think they can be pocketted, but I haven't tried yet.

 

[Myran]

Finally got the guide up. I hope it helps!

 

[HPHatecraft]

Another tech for Olimar! ILY SO MUCH NO HOMO

Thanks! For some reason I have this weird internet phobia where I think I'll get ridiculed for posting old tech or something. I guess even if one person learns something new from it then it's done it's job. So, do you guys think I should post the rest of my tech that I have came across with other characters?

 

[Shadowmin]

From what I've played so far, Olimar relies more on aerial game this time around. Moves are quick and easy to use (with the exception of dair timing, which can lag you out if you hit the ground too early). I was easily able to take a Wario from 0 to 180 and a KO in 30 seconds. I tend to avoid Usmash unless I know I can pull it off due to lag, instead relying much more on d and fsmashes. I haven't researched pikmin too much, but plan on relying on the whistle more often this game, not only for management but to control bad pikmin AI.

 

[2k6]

BTW I don't know if you guys know it yet that you can follow up any move instantly after plucking a Pikmin. It helps me from faking the enemy making them think that Olimar is hopeless without a Pikmin. I don't know if its considered a tech or not. (Found it somewhere in the general discussions)

 

[Blue Banana]

BTW I don't know if you guys know it yet that you can follow up any move instantly after plucking a Pikmin. It helps me from faking the enemy making them think that Olimar is hopeless without a Pikmin. I don't know if its considered a tech or not. (Found it somewhere in the general discussions)

Yes, I mentioned this in my moveset post under the Neutral B section on page 3.

 

[2k6]

Yes, I mentioned this in my moveset post under the Neutral B section on page 3.

I Haven't read it yet. Thanks for mentioning :D

 

[Blue Banana]

I tried pocketing White,Blue,Yellow, and Red pikmin when it is thrown, but it doesn't seem to work BUT I can pocket Purple ones. I think the purple ones can be caught by Villager since he counts as a projectile and the other pikmin can't be blocked by a shield. Also once the pikmin is thrown back, they immediately die. Does the captured pikmin still "exist" so that Olimar can pluck up another one?

Concerning the F smash or U smash, I think they can be pocketted, but I haven't tried yet.

I did some testing with how Pikmin interact with Villager's Pocket with a Lvl 9 CPU in Training, and it turns out that only purples can be pocketed (and it can be thrown back at Olimar that deals 17% and has a lot of knockback, KO'ing him around the edge of Battlefield at 90%). Olimar can still pluck a Pikmin if the purple is pocketed, as it immediately dies once it's out. As far as I know from testing, smash attacks can not be pocketed. (A Dsmash just phases through Villager's invincibility frames.)

I also did some other testing with Rosalina and Wario, and it seems that only purples thrown with Side B can be affected by Gravitational Pull/eaten (I also tried eating a Pikmin smash, and it didn't work. I'm assuming Rosalina's Down B also doesn't work). I think this may be because thrown purples act as "true" projectiles, unlike the other colors. It may also be the reason why it hits shields when thrown and the other colors don't. This might be interesting as to how Olimar's custom Side B 3 works, as it makes all colors act like a "true" projectile.

I'll edit my moveset post again with these notes.

 

[Myran]

I did some testing with how Pikmin interact with Villager's Pocket with a Lvl 9 CPU in Training, and it turns out that only purples can be pocketed (and it can be thrown back at Olimar that deals 17% and has a lot of knockback, KO'ing him around the edge of Battlefield at 90%). Olimar can still pluck a Pikmin if the purple is pocketed, as it immediately dies once it's out. As far as I know from testing, smash attacks can not be pocketed.

I also did some other testing with Rosalina and Wario, and it seems that only purples thrown with Side B can be affected by Gravitational Pull/eaten (I also tried eating a Pikmin smash, and it didn't work. I'm assuming Rosalina's Down B also doesn't work). I think this may be because thrown purples act as "true" projectiles, unlike the other colors. It may also be the reason why it hits shields when thrown and the other colors don't. This might be interesting as to how Olimar's custom Side B 3 works, as it makes all colors act like a "true" projectile.

I'll edit my moveset post again with these notes.

Actually Rosalina's Gravitational Pull absorbs smash attacks.

 

[Blue Banana]

Actually Rosalina's Gravitational Pull absorbs smash attacks.

I'll put that in while editing the moveset post. Thanks for clarifying!

 

[DtJ Hilt]

I did some testing with how Pikmin interact with Villager's Pocket with a Lvl 9 CPU in Training, and it turns out that only purples can be pocketed (and it can be thrown back at Olimar that deals 17% and has a lot of knockback, KO'ing him around the edge of Battlefield at 90%). Olimar can still pluck a Pikmin if the purple is pocketed, as it immediately dies once it's out. As far as I know from testing, smash attacks can not be pocketed. (A Dsmash just phases through Villager's invincibility frames.)

I also did some other testing with Rosalina and Wario, and it seems that only purples thrown with Side B can be affected by Gravitational Pull/eaten (I also tried eating a Pikmin smash, and it didn't work. I'm assuming Rosalina's Down B also doesn't work). I think this may be because thrown purples act as "true" projectiles, unlike the other colors. It may also be the reason why it hits shields when thrown and the other colors don't. This might be interesting as to how Olimar's custom Side B 3 works, as it makes all colors act like a "true" projectile.

I'll edit my moveset post again with these notes.

No, Villager can pocket any Pikmin thrown from Pikmin Toss. I played Villager against Myran and definitely pocketed several different colors (he was very careful to not let me pocket any purples, haha). When thrown by Villager they act as Kirby's Pikmin Toss does, where they'll have a solid hitbox when thrown, and then immediately die.

 

[StripedNinja]

...did Olimar get buffed with the update? They said it would address balancing issues and his up smash feels quicker. Maybe it's just placebo but tell me what you guys think

 

[DtJ Hilt]

There were no actual balancing changes in the patch. I'm not sure what Sakurai was talking about, haha.

 

[StripedNinja]

There were no actual balancing changes in the patch. I'm not sure what Sakurai was talking about, haha.

Gah. Guess it was just placebo. All well, Im still playing him no matter what

 

[Blue Banana]

No, Villager can pocket any Pikmin thrown from Pikmin Toss. I played Villager against Myran and definitely pocketed several different colors (he was very careful to not let me pocket any purples, haha). When thrown by Villager they act as Kirby's Pikmin Toss does, where they'll have a solid hitbox when thrown, and then immediately die.

I did some more testing in Training, and I can't seem to pocket any colors except purples. Most of the non-purples that I try to pocket just phase through me during the invincibility phase. The only time I was able to pocket non-purples was with custom Side B 3, and I pocketed them a fair distance away from where Villager's hand is. Default and Side B 2 don't seem to work for me except purples, since if I were able to pocket them, I should have pocketed them around the same distance like with Side B 3. I also tested the default in 1.0.2 before updating to 1.0.3, and there is no change. Then I tried a quick Smash battle to see if it's any different with the default, and I can still pocket only purples.

So, I don't know. Maybe it's because my testing is too unreliable since I'm relying on a CPU, or I have misread and you're talking about custom Side B 3.

 

[Silverjay323]

I'm sure this it DI'able but at low % Olimar can dthrow>shff'd fair>(if your opponent doesn't double jump)dtilt>regrab/fsmash/fair/nair. This actually string does 0-45 when finished off with a purple fsmash. I've managed to pull this off multiple times in for glory, and it typically works guaranteed at 0% in training.

 

[Myran]

I'm sure this it DI'able but at low % Olimar can dthrow>shff'd fair>(if your opponent doesn't double jump)dtilt>regrab/fsmash/fair/nair. This actually string does 0-45 when finished off with a purple fsmash. I've managed to pull this off multiple times in for glory, and it typically works guaranteed at 0% in training.

Yeah I get similar strings like that with the regrab. I've gotten up to three consecutive dthrow-fair follow ups on heavier characters. Most people don't let you do it more than once though.

 

[Blue Banana]

I finally got around to finishing testing Olimar's custom moves, so I'll post what I noted down here.
First, a small note. Apparently when Pikmin are not in Olimar's line and left vulnerable to attacks, it seems they gradually lose health. It doesn't look apparent for Pikmin plucked with default B or Custom B 2, but Custom B 3 is different, as I'll talk about later in this post.
(All damage percentages tested in Training. They do not take the fresh move bonus and stale move penalty multipliers into account.

Neutral B 2 - Hardy Pikmin Pluck
- Plucking Pikmin now has a lot of startup lag.
- Out of the 3 neutral B's, this has the slowest plucking rate; it's impossible to pluck 3 Pikmin with the respawn invincibility.
- Pikmin plucked with this variation can take a lot more hits than default. Using Mario's Dsmash that deals 10% in front of him and Dtilt that deals 5%, it takes:

• At least 9 Dsmashes and a Dtilt to kill a red or yellow Pikmin
• At least 10 Dsmashes to kill a blue Pikmin
• At least 5 Dsmashes to kill a white Pikmin
• At least 15 Dsmashes to kill a purple Pikmin

- Olimar cannot pluck cancel with this variation. Since the animation for pulling the Pikmin out is much longer, trying to pluck cancel results in only triggering the "pulling up" sound.
- Most Pikmin except whites pop up much lower when plucked than the default.

Neutral B 3 - Explosive Pikmin Pluck
- Plucking a Pikmin now creates an explosion in front of Olimar.
- Damage dealt is 8% for reds, yellows, and blues; 5% for whites; and 10% for purples
- A purple pluck KO's Mario at 118% at the starting position of Battlefield Omega
- Pikmin plucked with this variation have very low health than default. If a Pikmin is not in Olimar's line, it is possible for a Pikmin to die prematurely before it comes back without help of Down B.
- Olimar can pluck cancel with this variation, but it feels harder to do so than the default. Additionally, pluck cancelling doesn't create an explosion.
- Pikmin plucked go up at a much higher distance than the default. It can land on the top platform from Battlefield's main platform.
- Has a bit of ending lag, in contrast to the previous one.

Side B 2 - Sticky Pikmin Throw
- Damage is decreased to 5% for purples, 2% per hit for whites, and 1% per hit for all other colors.
- The rate at which the Pikmin hits the opponent when latched on is doubled.
- Number of hits on a standing CPU:

• 0-2%: 16
• 3-25%: 15
• 26-48%: 14
• 49-71%: 13
• 72-94%: 12
• 95-117%: 11
• 118-140%: 10
• 141-163%: 9
• 164-186%: 8
• 187-209%: 7

Testing further is a bit trivial since at this point, Olimar should be aiming to finish off the opponent. (The minimum number of hits a Pikmin can do is 3, at 300+%.)
- Range on the ground seems to be decreased for all colors except whites, which go about 2/3rds of Battlefield Omega
- It can take a few more hits to shake off Pikmin latched on. I tested this and the default side B with custom Neutral B 2, so it may not be relevant to default neutral B.
- All Pikmin share same properties with default otherwise.

Side B 3 - Tackle Pikmin Throw
- All Pikmin have the same properties of purple Pikmin. This means that:

• Pikmin can hit shields.
• Pikmin can deal hitstun and knockback.
• Pikmin can be eaten by Wario, Pocketed by Villager, and sucked in by Rosalina's Gravitational Pull.

- Damage dealt is 3% for whites, 8% for purples, and 5% for all other colors.
- The attack animation is slightly longer than default or Side B 2.
- Range is similar to default.

Up B 2 - Winged Pikmin Jump
- Recovery is now totally vertical; Olimar can only move horizontally while in free-fall.
- Vertical range is similar to default with 2 Pikmin in tow.
- It is still possible to attack out of recovery; however, it seems to be only possible if the move is completely fresh, the window to attack is small, and Olimar will still move upwards after attacking, forcing him into free-fall.
- Range is not affected by Pikmin in tow.
- The move has a windbox around Olimar that pushes opponents away.

Up B 3 - Mighty Winged Pikmin
- Distance traveled is now not affected by number of Pikmin in tow.
- Maximum vertical distance is similar to default with 2 Pikmin in tow.
- More or less seems to function the same as default otherwise.

Down B 2 - Order Tackle
- When Olimar whistles, Pikmin not in line can hit opponents up to 2 times, once when they react to the whistle, and again when they travel through the air.
- Damage dealt by 1st hit is 3% for whites, 5% for purples, and 1% for other colors. 2nd hit deals 2% for whites, 5% for purples, and 3% for other colors.
- It takes longer for Pikmin to come back to Olimar's line, as they seem to jump up higher than default.
- Has a bit of ending lag. It's the slowest of all 3 down Bs.
- Olimar has super armor right before he tweets, though I'm not sure if the time it's active is longer than default.

Down B 3 - Dizzy Whistle
- Whistling now can hit opponents two times. The first hit does no damage and just makes the opponent flinch very briefly. The second does 1% damage, turns the opponent around, and makes him/her gravitate towards Olimar, and does not make him/her flinch.
- If the opponent only gets hit at the very end of the attack, the opponent takes the 2nd hit.
- Range is about a quarter of Battlefield Omega horizontally, and about the height of Olimar vertically, including the antenna.
- This variation does not grant Olimar super armor right before he whistles.

Done. All that's left is just testing out rough KO percentages on several weight classes. If anyone has anything to add or make a correction about custom moves, please do so.

EDIT: Now that I've hit 10 posts and can link to videos, I want to show a small additional thing that I found while doing stuff in Training.

When Olimar grabs but does not throw the opponent, he'll go into this animation.

There is also another thing that happens if the opponent is released from the grab. If Olimar attempts to do a dash grab, he won't do the grabbing animation. Instead, the Pikmin that should have been used for the grab will go to the back of the line, and Olimar will go into his "grab release" animation. Any dash grab attempt after this will proceed as normal.

A few other things about this:
- Olimar can pummel the opponent without throwing, and he'll still go into the animation if he tries a dash grab.
- Olimar can still do a standing grab normally after the opponent is released. If the standing grab fails, then Olimar's animation for dash grabs will work on subsequent grabs.
- Olimar's momentum can be influenced by these grab animation. If Olimar attempts to do a normal dash grab, then Olimar will completely stop. On the other hand, attempting to do a pivot dash grab will result in Olimar moving a bit more distance in the direction he was originally running to. He can go over a ledge if he runs close enough to it.

I put up a video showing this. I apologize if the quality looks bad, but I don't have a proper capture device for a 3DS.

 

[Sky Pirate]

Not sure if anyone's noted this yet (proooooobably, but I haven't been playing a ton of Smash or checking the board), but purples do weigh more and whites do weight less when using Olimar's UpB. RBY seem to be the same weight. I was playing around with it and measuring the height of a grounded completely vertical flight at full pink pikmin fuel by comparing where Olimar's antenna light ended up in relation to the dots on the Pac-Man stage. All this is just kinda from eyeballing it.

Format is "(Color of three pikmin) = (height in dots)"

Pikminless = 23.5 (the dots end at 23, so it could be closer to 24)

R = 19.75
W = 21
P = 19

WW = 18.25
BW = 17
BR = 16
BP = 15.25
PP = 14.5
PW = 16.5

WWW = 16
BWW = 14.75
YBW = 13
RBY = 12
YRP = 10.5
BPP = 7
PPP = 5

RPW = 12.5
PWW = 14
PPW = 11


BTW. Try recovering with three purples. It's HILARIOUS. The pinks are just like "Hnng... WHATEVER, DROP HIM!"
Horizontal recovery is also affected, but I haven't thought of a good way to measure that.

 

[Myran]

Not sure if anyone's noted this yet (proooooobably, but I haven't been playing a ton of Smash or checking the board), but purples do weigh more and whites do weight less when using Olimar's UpB. RBY seem to be the same weight. I was playing around with it and measuring the height of a grounded completely vertical flight at full pink pikmin fuel by comparing where Olimar's antenna light ended up in relation to the dots on the Pac-Man stage. All this is just kinda from eyeballing it.

Format is "(Color of three pikmin) = (height in dots)"

Pikminless = 23.5 (the dots end at 23, so it could be closer to 24)

R = 19.75
W = 21
P = 19

WW = 18.25
BW = 17
BR = 16
BP = 15.25
PP = 14.5
PW = 16.5

WWW = 16
BWW = 14.75
YBW = 13
RBY = 12
YRP = 10.5
BPP = 7
PPP = 5

RPW = 12.5
PWW = 14
PPW = 11


BTW. Try recovering with three purples. It's HILARIOUS. The pinks are just like "Hnng... WHATEVER, DROP HIM!"
Horizontal recovery is also affected, but I haven't thought of a good way to measure that.

I haven't done any testing, but it did seem like different colors affected the distance. Thanks for testing.

 

[StripedNinja]

Anyone see any Olimars in tournament yet? ;-;

 

[Myran]

Haven't been to any actual tournaments yet. Plan on going to a pretty big one in Florida this Saturday. If I am able to go I'll let you now. (I plan on playing him also.)

 

[Blue Banana]

Anyone see any Olimars in tournament yet? ;-;

There apparently was a player named Im Hip that got into top 16 with Olimar in a California tournament a few weeks ago, out of 55 entrants. Unfortunately, it seems that no user on Smashboards has claimed to be the player, so this is the only evidence that Im Hip played Olimar, as far as I can tell.

 

[Ampetrix]

Hey, any tips against PAC-MAN using Alph/Olimar. I keep getting out-camped with his fire hydrants and fruit. I keep getting the fruit though. One particular opponent utilized the second to the last tool that acts like a zss paralyzer and he's really good at getting it.

I have to force him approach right? Most PAC-MAN players dash attack right away anyway(awful lag).

Pac-man camps better and has zone control with his fire hydrant, ugh.

I don't want to get battered by fruits and hydrants, so which attack option should I take than rather punishing his approaches?

>Throw Pikmin back(doesn't work because pikmin clings to the fruit, WHY?)
>Aerials (I haven't tried it yet, but with Pacman's fruit, it's unlikely)

Those are the only two I'm thinking :l

 

[Myran]

Hey, any tips against PAC-MAN using Alph/Olimar. I keep getting out-camped with his fire hydrants and fruit. I keep getting the fruit though. One particular opponent utilized the second to the last tool that acts like a zss paralyzer and he's really good at getting it.

I have to force him approach right? Most PAC-MAN players dash attack right away anyway(awful lag).

Pac-man camps better and has zone control with his fire hydrant, ugh.

I don't want to get battered by fruits and hydrants, so which attack option should I take than rather punishing his approaches?

>Throw Pikmin back(doesn't work because pikmin clings to the fruit, WHY?)
>Aerials (I haven't tried it yet, but with Pacman's fruit, it's unlikely)

Those are the only two I'm thinking :l

Out camp him. He might have fire hydrant and fruit, but those are dodged much easier than your Pikmin. Most of his attacks and can punishes out of shield as well. He will approach if you camp right, and when he does wrack up some damage and go back to camping. One last thing, when fighting him up close and he fire hydrants try to hit it back at with him a smash. It's so easy to get Pacmans with it.

 

[Blue Banana]

I've been checking on the character impressions thread in the competitive subforum for a while now, and most posters in there keep saying that Olimar is a bad character, with some people stating him being the worst. I looked at some of the criticisms that the more vocal posters put down, and some of them are:

- Unpredictable AI. Pikmin seem to desync on a whim, and that forces Olimar to whistle or pluck for a replacement. In my testing in Training mode with some limited experience in For Glory, I noticed that Pikmin seem to desync frequently if Olimar is near a ledge (Pikmin skid off the platform and jump about), is grabbing a ledge (Pikmin fall down to the bottom), or does a side smash or side B (Pikmin will sometimes moonwalk towards the other end of the stage).
- Reliance on projectile smashes. This would influence MUs with opponents that have a reflector, like Fox or Falco. I can't speak too much on this because I have limited experience with characters that have a reflector.
- Nerfs to his moveset in general, including KO throws now only limited to blue uthrows, limit of 3 pikmin (compounding the problem with AI), custom moves not being useful, new UpB being punishable, less grab range, low priority in attacks, etc. The first two were separate points because they seem to be the most common assertions that posters in the thread have used, and because some posts in this thread have already talked about the changes to Olimar's moveset aside from custom moves.

I don't want to start a discussion where people say that Olimar isn't the worst character because that is not what I intend to do. I want to know how other people who main Olimar deal with the nerfs, particularly the first two points listed above because that seems to be the most common points of contention that people in the thread seem to use.

 

[Myran]

I've been checking on the character impressions thread in the competitive subforum for a while now, and most posters in there keep saying that Olimar is a bad character, with some people stating him being the worst. I looked at some of the criticisms that the more vocal posters put down, and some of them are:

- Unpredictable AI. Pikmin seem to desync on a whim, and that forces Olimar to whistle or pluck for a replacement. In my testing in Training mode with some limited experience in For Glory, I noticed that Pikmin seem to desync frequently if Olimar is near a ledge (Pikmin skid off the platform and jump about), is grabbing a ledge (Pikmin fall down to the bottom), or does a side smash or side B (Pikmin will sometimes moonwalk towards the other end of the stage).
- Reliance on projectile smashes. This would influence MUs with opponents that have a reflector, like Fox or Falco. I can't speak too much on this because I have limited experience with characters that have a reflector.
- Nerfs to his moveset in general, including KO throws now only limited to blue uthrows, limit of 3 pikmin (compounding the problem with AI), custom moves not being useful, new UpB being punishable, less grab range, low priority in attacks, etc. The first two were separate points because they seem to be the most common assertions that posters in the thread have used, and because some posts in this thread have already talked about the changes to Olimar's moveset aside from custom moves.

I don't want to start a discussion where people say that Olimar isn't the worst character because that is not what I intend to do. I want to know how other people who main Olimar deal with the nerfs, particularly the first two points listed above because that seems to be the most common points of contention that people in the thread seem to use.

People who are calling Olimar bad don't know the character. Ignore what they think. When they start losing to Olimar's they'll understand.

 

[StripedNinja]

I've been checking on the character impressions thread in the competitive subforum for a while now, and most posters in there keep saying that Olimar is a bad character, with some people stating him being the worst. I looked at some of the criticisms that the more vocal posters put down, and some of them are:

- Unpredictable AI. Pikmin seem to desync on a whim, and that forces Olimar to whistle or pluck for a replacement. In my testing in Training mode with some limited experience in For Glory, I noticed that Pikmin seem to desync frequently if Olimar is near a ledge (Pikmin skid off the platform and jump about), is grabbing a ledge (Pikmin fall down to the bottom), or does a side smash or side B (Pikmin will sometimes moonwalk towards the other end of the stage).
- Reliance on projectile smashes. This would influence MUs with opponents that have a reflector, like Fox or Falco. I can't speak too much on this because I have limited experience with characters that have a reflector.
- Nerfs to his moveset in general, including KO throws now only limited to blue uthrows, limit of 3 pikmin (compounding the problem with AI), custom moves not being useful, new UpB being punishable, less grab range, low priority in attacks, etc. The first two were separate points because they seem to be the most common assertions that posters in the thread have used, and because some posts in this thread have already talked about the changes to Olimar's moveset aside from custom moves.

I don't want to start a discussion where people say that Olimar isn't the worst character because that is not what I intend to do. I want to know how other people who main Olimar deal with the nerfs, particularly the first two points listed above because that seems to be the most common points of contention that people in the thread seem to use.

I don't really think about it in terms of dealing with nerfs, but just learning a new character, which this Olimar is. He has some new weaknesses but he also has a few new strengths, such as up close combat and, while predictable, still a very much needed recovery buff.
The Pikmin AI is a annoying, and will sometimes lead to an unfortunate loss in stock, but it isn't like devastating. Its definitely annoying but more for just the randomness of it and not the frequency, so I don't think it's going to hurt him too much in the long one. And who knows, it might get fixed in the Wii U version/updates.
The grab is nerfed, but it was like the best grab in the game in Brawl. Its still very solid, just not spamable anymore.
He isn't bad. People saying he is are either people who have not had experience with Olimar or Brawl players who want him to be exactly like Brawl. Will we be seeing him in tournaments as the game develops? I dunno. We'll see. But he's definitionally not at the bottom of the roster on terms of skill.

 

[Myran]

Just watched a video of a level 9 Olimar on the Wii U version against a real person. It was only one match on FD, but the entire time he had Pikmin I didn't see them desync once. This could be promising. I'm currently looking for more videos, but there aren't to many.

Edit: Watched another video and learned some more. It seems that the Pikmin can still desync when Olimar moves a certain way on ledges like in the 3DS version, but don't randomly run out of your line when you're on the ground like in 3DS. I think the AI for them might be better on the Wii U. Will update if I find more.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Ahh, that's good to hear at least. So it was probably because of them being at 30 fps, or perhaps they weren't able to go too in depth into their AI because of 3DS limitations.

 

[Ridel]

Played a good amount of him in For Glory and he is less aggressive in some aspects and better in others this time around. The biggest problem I've had with Olimar is facing characters like Villager, Link, Toon Link, Sonic, and especially ZSS. Villager and the Links are just because of there projectile spam and power though I've had no problem pinning down DHD. Sonic and ZSS is just because of there speed and air game are pretty powerful. ZSS in particular can rush down Olimar with ease using Paralyzer into grab or Dash Attack. Another big problem I have is just with Pikmin's AI, it can be really atrocious at times making you whiff Smashes unintentionally whether they just runaway or don't snap to the ledge with you. But I managed to win a good 80% of the matches I played with him by just playing smart and focusing on reading the opponents movements rather then trying to rush them down. I had a fantastic match with a Doc player (he was actually really good) where I really focused on him messing up or being to aggressive and capitalized off it (though he still won but it was really close). His air game seems to be better though its not PM standard its still relatively good having a more reliable N-Air and U-Air. His grab range has been nerfed along with the power of his throws but they do allow for more follow-ups and tech-chases. His recovery is far better in this game and is consistently reliable for me anyways. Smashes are still powerful and fast being his best punish tools.

I think if the Wii U version has more reliable Pikmin AI he will be slightly better but only because it's a limitation of the 3DS. I don't know I still love the little guy to death and think he would have some good potential if more people played him.

 

[meleebrawler]

I keep hearing his smashes can be reflected. I don't buy it for Dsmash, but what about
Fsmash?

 

[Myran]

I keep hearing his smashes can be reflected. I don't buy it for Dsmash, but what about
Fsmash?

All of them can be.

 

[-The Gucci Fairy-]

What is the matchup for yoshi? I personally feel like Yoshi hard counters olimar ive tried camping and what not but that dash attack, aerials and other silly things tho.. Any pointers?

 

[Myran]

What is the matchup for yoshi? I personally feel like Yoshi hard counters olimar ive tried camping and what not but that dash attack, aerials and other silly things tho.. Any pointers?

Shield then punish. You can fsmash out of shield if he dash attacks, you can up smash out of shield he he does most his aerials. Just learn the timings. Also I'd recommend getting better at dodging the eggs so you can camp him out.

 

[Blue Banana]

Shield then punish. You can fsmash out of shield if he dash attacks, you can up smash out of shield he he does most his aerials. Just learn the timings. Also I'd recommend getting better at dodging the eggs so you can camp him out.

What if he starts catching on and goes for grabs and egg lay attempts?

 

[Myran]

What if he starts catching on and goes for grabs and egg lay attempts?

You could try running back and pivot grab/smashing. It's important to notice how he's going to approach so you can react properly. Alternatively using a purple Pikmin Throw can do some good work to snub either of his approaches.

 

[StripedNinja]

Olimar has been tweaked!
Pikmin throw does more damage with white and very slightly less with other colors.
F-smash has slightly increased in range
Red F-Smash does more knockback.
That's all I've heard so far

 

[AncientBaby]

Sorry if this is the wrong place for this, but does anyone have tips for Olimar vs Ness?
It seems like his PK fires always catch onto my desynced Pikmin and give him a lot of field control. Also can you give me some anti-juggling tips (not just against Ness, but in general) as Olimar? I can't figure out what to do to get back onto the ground sometimes unless I just aim for the edge and try to get back on there, but that's not always a safe choice.
Thanks!