3DS Community Patch Notes v1.0.4 -- Engine Changes to DI

[Sickolas]

I'm telling that developping the reflex clearly takes hundred hours.

What a jokester.

 

[Calvonta]

I'm even more interested into seeing what this game will evolve into.


Also, that Villager Usmash change. G l o r y.

 

[BBC7]

Wasn't speaking about the theory that you understand in 5 minutes (maybe it took 1 more minute to understand DI)

I'm telling that developping the reflex clearly takes hundred hours.

AND FORGETTING THAT REFLEX takes even more hours! I'm now litteraly less skilled in SSB4 only because I had skill before the patch!

lord have mercy

 

[Jabejazz]

I'm telling that developping the reflex clearly takes hundred hours.

In some countries, trolling is punishable by death. Thought I'd let you know.

 

[TropicalTaco]

The Sheik nerfs were wholely unneeded, and a terrible idea. She already has a hard enough time killing.

The lack of Samus buffs also makes me a bit sad.

Glad to see there were some Rosalina nerfs, though. <3

 

[Kenjin]

What a jokester.

Well, haha yeah nice joke! We all know that every human being is able to learn a 5 frame reflexe in only 30 minutes

 

[Yikarur]

Vectoring did influence the Knockback Number in the post game screen. I tested it first in the demo.

 

[Shaya]

Shut up about your personal 'feels' about a game change.
Kthx.

You have a lot more than 5 frames to react. How about the fact that you know what percent you're in danger of dying? What about most smash attacks having 10~ frames of hitlag? What about the start up of those moves? What about the fact that holding down will be registered within 1 frame?

Go complain on facebook or something, your thoughts are very shallow.

Technical barriers really are not worth complaining about. It just isn't. We're competitive players, anything that literally isn't 1-2 frame only windows is something consistently applied by most high level players; otherwise they lose.

 

[Kenjin]

Vectoring did influence the Knockback Number in the post game screen. I tested it first in the demo.

So... Vectoring is still there then?

Vectoring is still there dudes. Just tested it by myself.

 

[Crescendo]

Frankly, I find the idea that Wario's crazy vectoring somehow led to the entire concept being thrown out of the window absolutely hilarious.
It's almost as if he died for our sins.

 

[JoeInky]

Frankly, I find the idea that Wario's crazy vectoring somehow led to the entire concept being thrown out of the window absolutely hilarious.
It's almost as if he died for our sins.

He sacrificed himself, so that we might live (less).

 

[SonicZeroX]

Frankly, I find the idea that Wario's crazy vectoring somehow led to the entire concept being thrown out of the window absolutely hilarious.
It's almost as if he died for our sins.

Thank you Wario

 

[MachoCheeze]

Frankly, I find the idea that Wario's crazy vectoring somehow led to the entire concept being thrown out of the window absolutely hilarious.
It's almost as if he died for our sins.

On the third day he rose and farted out the sins of Nintendo's descisions

 

[Big O]

Okay I think I may know why we are getting different results. Previously, holding up/down for vertical knockback moves added/subtracted knockback. Earlier it was discovered this is no longer the case and that any direction held did not change knockback, only the angle was changed. However, the angle of motion sensor bombs is more horizontal the all the explosives and hazards tested. Perhaps vectoring is gone for vertical moves, but not horizontal moves.

After testing with bob-ombs with Mario at 100% - holding left, holding right and no direction all listed 205 for kb. When holding up it became 224 and when holding down it became 188.

I think more testing should probably be done to see whether or not all horizontalish angle moves like bob-ombs keep this weird behavior, or if the kb number given is bugged for such moves.

 

[the101]

There is no change in weight or fall speed of any character afawk, and it seems extremely unlikely.

New hypothesis; there's something just off with me personally and I'm perceiving things that just aren't actually there.

 

[Calvonta]

Thank you Wario

;-;7

 

[Thinkaman]

100% Mario VS Motion Sensor Bomb

1.0.0
No input - 172 launch speed
Holding up - 189
Holding down - 158

1.0.4
No input - 172
Holding up - 189
Holding down - 158

Damage required to kill Mario with a Motion Bomb from the edge of FD:
1.0.3 No input - 48%
1.0.3 Inward down input - 58%

1.0.4 No input - 48%
1.0.4 Inward down input - 56%

It's difficult to say what is going on here. On one hand, horizontal moves are arced by gravity and impossible to input strictly perpendicular or parallel.

I could buy a horizontal/vertical distinction here, but I'm not sure what it would be exactly. "Horizontal vectoring" doesn't describe what I'm seeing.

I do know that holding right vs. left on doc d-throw made a big difference, while holding up vs. down made zero difference.

 

[SSBBDaisy]

Behold.

THE ALPHA JOHN.

Behold someone who doesn't understand that this game's competitive fan base will die down and people will not want to participate in tournaments more than likely after a year or when NIntendo stops DLC for it. Back to Melee they will go.

 

[Thinkaman]

Behold someone who doesn't understand that this game's competitive fan base will die down and people will not want to participate in tournaments more than likely after a year or when NIntendo stops DLC for it. Back to Melee they will go.

Why are you in this thread?

 

[Sinister Slush]

To troll, why else? Though he's failing incredibly hard.

 

[Tagxy]

Behold someone who doesn't understand that this game's competitive fan base will die down and people will not want to participate in tournaments more than likely after a year or when NIntendo stops DLC for it. Back to Melee they will go.

Cmon dude, dont speak for the competitive community. I know for you its more upsetting that you can't abuse top tiers that such mechanics catered to. Dont pretend you mained peach in Brawl ~_~.

 

[Jabejazz]

Behold someone who doesn't understand that this game's competitive fan base will die down and people will not want to participate in tournaments more than likely after a year or when NIntendo stops DLC for it. Back to Melee they will go.

In some countries, trolling is punishable by death. Thought I'd let you know.

 

[SSBBDaisy]

Why are you in this thread?

I still own the 3ds version and I can't return it plus I like playing online in for fun mode so I still am interested in the updates. I just know not to purchase the Wii U version now. Maybe when nintendo goes the opposite direction and stops making the games for casuals I'll buy the Wii U version.


And it sounds like you dont' want me here. So stop replying to me and I'll stop posting.


EDIT: At Tagxy. What do you mean don't pretend. I mained Peach, ICs, and Olimar. I used mostly ICs and Peach in tournament. I was PRd 6th in FL for 2013. You don't pretend like you know who I played.

 

[Weeman]

Not this again
Anyway, so is it true that regular DI is back?

 

[Big O]

From what I can tell, Brawl/Melee DI is back, vectoring for vertical attacks is gone, and for certain horizontalish angle attacks might have this weird fusion of DI and vertical vectoring. In all moves tried holding left/right does nothing to change kb, only launch angles which implies horizontal vectoring is gone for all moves.

However, holding up for those weird special case moves displays higher kb and holding down displays lower kb on top of their normal angle changing DI behavior.

From Thinkaman's data using kill %'s instead of relying on the game's stat tracking, I would guess that the kb numbers given for such moves might be bugged, or the behavior of vertical vectoring reared it's ugly head in some moves.

 

[Daeyrat]

Damage required to kill Mario with a Motion Bomb from the edge of FD:
1.0.3 No input - 48%
1.0.3 Inward down input - 58%

1.0.4 No input - 48%
1.0.4 Inward down input - 56%

It's difficult to say what is going on here. On one hand, horizontal moves are arced by gravity and impossible to input strictly perpendicular or parallel.

I could buy a horizontal/vertical distinction here, but I'm not sure what it would be exactly. "Horizontal vectoring" doesn't describe what I'm seeing.

I do know that holding right vs. left on doc d-throw made a big difference, while holding up vs. down made zero difference.

Maybe explosions work differently?

 

[Tagxy]

EDIT: At Tagxy. What do you mean don't pretend. I mained Peach, ICs, and Olimar. I used mostly ICs and Peach in tournament. I was PRd 6th in FL for 2013. You don't pretend like you know who I played.

I actually do know who you played and how you went from non-PR to PRd, and now you only seem upset because potentially very good characters you intended to main got a few nerfs. Just seems self serving when you try to speak for people who arent you and no reasoning.

 

[Thinkaman]

Maybe explosions work differently?

We got similar results on ganon d-tilt and ike b-throw, as did NinjaLink on Bowser f-smash.

 

[JoeInky]

Ok I picked Mario, went on default mute city and walked onto the track holding different vertical inputs:

1.0.3
Up held: 98 Max launch speed
No input: 89 Max launch speed
Down held: 82 Max launch speed

1.0.4
Up held: 89 Max launch speed
No input: 89 Max launch speed
Down held: 89 Max launch speed

Don't know if this helps prove anything but I'm throwing it in there.

 

[Dabuz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YyNv2sar24&feature=youtu.be

This is confusing...

 

[KuroganeHammer]

So vertical knockback influence is gone and horizontal is still there I guess?

But Wario's Wectoring is out so it's probably not a byproduct of Knockback influence being removed.

 

[SSBBDaisy]

I actually do know who you played and how you went from non-PR to PRd, and now you only seem upset because potentially very good characters you intended to main got a few nerfs. Just seems self serving when you try to speak for people who arent you and no reasoning.

I'm speaking from experiences. I've seen brawl live and die. Although it seems kind of a live since it will be at apex I'll tell you that no one in FL wants to play it anymore and not because of Smash 4 but because they lost interest because of PM. PM is a game that catered to competitive players while still giving brawl players the characters they wanted to play.

If smash 4 doesn't bring itself down PM definitley will when they start incorporating the new smash 4 characters into pm or they make a pm for the wii u version.

Tell me what you know of me going form non PRd to PRd I'm interested. BTW me bringing up the PR thing wasn't to gloat it was to show that I cared enough about Brawl to be active in the community and to try even though I consider myself a casual player. I would try to do the same for Smash 4 but I can tell its not going to be worth it in the end.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

can you take whatever ****ing discussion you're trying to have away from here

this topic is about PATCH NOTES and COMMUNITY and RAINBOWS

 

[san.]

Isn't horizontal just the character's air speed movement?

 

[SaltyKracka]

Isn't horizontal just the character's air speed movement?

Not if they're dying in hitstun.

 

[Locke 06]

Sorry we're late to the party. - Patch 1.0.4 notes @ SamuraiPanda . Testing by @--- and myself.

Changes found through our testing:
Uncharged fsmash does 11.5% and fully charged does 19.5% (down from 12% and 20% respectively). As a result, kill% is 1% higher. Fully charged fsmash kill % doesn't seem to be affected, probably because it's not enough of a difference?

BAir is buffed to 151% for KO% from 156%.

Leaf shield end lag after throwing is decreased (noticeably different and generally accepted as true)

Phantom lag is gone from any normal/airdodge canceled up-B and utilt off the edge (phantom lag is still there from up-B if you land with B or side-B).

BAir spiking is much weaker/not a viable KO option (computer at 200% only goes about 1.5 default mii heights below the edge of the stage and not very fast. If you've ever done it before, you'll notice that it is significantly different with both 1-hit and 2-hit spikes)

Rush canceling is indeed gone completely. (Tested with Ganondorf's side-B and confirmed by multiple videos of the Wii U version)

DJ and Up-B are restored after being grabbed out of the air and released (tested with DK's cargo hold release)

Possible buffs depending on 1.0.3 data accuracy:
Sour Spot knockback increased (175%-->165% KO%)
Dthrow up by .5% (4% --> 4.5%)

Unconfirmed hypotheses (most popular theories that could not be proven one way or another due to a lack of frame testing or side-by-side comparison)

FAir landing lag decreased
DSmash activation time decreased
Rush activation time increased

Methods:

Spoiler

Before I patched to 1.0.4, I reconfirmed most kill %'s and %'s from the community guide that --- compiled. Since the original %'s were done on a default mii on Pac-Maze, I tested under those conditions. I also did some distance stuff and things with lemons, but none of that was changed so it doesn't matter. Here is the link to the thread where changes were discussed and my methods are more clearly defined.

Let me know if you find anything different or can confirm/unconfirm the 1.0.3 data accuracy questions and the unconfirmed hypotheses.

 

[JoeInky]

Same test, but for the left side of the flipper hazards on default balloon flight which have more horizontal knockback:

1.0.3
Left held: 54 Max launch speed
No input: 56 Max launch speed
Right held: 56 Max launch speed

1.0.4
Left held: 53 Max launch speed
No input: 56 Max launch speed
Right held: 58 Max launch speed

In short: I have no idea what the **** is going on with the horizontal influence, the ability to increase and decrease vertical knockback is definitely gone though.

 

[DarkKiru]

Hopefully we can come to some kind of solid conclusion by the end of the night. Im really interested in figuring out what the heck is going on.

 

[san.]

Not if they're dying in hitstun.

Yeah, you're right. I wonder why those with better horizontal air speed have better horizontal survivability then (assuming same weight)?

 

[Conda]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Signed,
Discoverer and namer of Vectoring

Looks like I win. We dont have to use the term Vectoring or VI.

This has come to a nice close.