3DS Community Patch Notes v1.0.4 -- Engine Changes to DI

[Sickolas]

VI is really more intuitive, more logic and more useful than DI. It was a really good idea to change that ****ty mechanic called DI, and replace it by something better.
So yeah, this is a bad thing that VI disapeared.

....Lol

 

[Thinkaman]

Holy ****. I am in shock right now. This is amazing news.

The best thing about it is that for people who play multiple smash games, we don't have to go through the painful transition of DI to Vectoring. OMG.

This was actually my main beef with vectoring.

 

[Jaxas]

You mean... Hitstun Shuffling?

(That's what it's called in Tips - I saw it appear before a For Glory match the other day. Classification "Other."Did not take a picture, but I'm sure one of you will see it at some point.)

Hitstun Shuffling could refer to either Vectoring or SDI; speaking of which, can anyone check through the tips to see if this one is still there?

 

[SaltyKracka]

So from what I've heard VI is out but we have good old DI again?
Thank god, people aren't going to live for 5 years anymore.

Um. No.

As far as I can tell, vectoring is almost a non-factor, and DI doesn't appear to be much of one even if it is in, which still has not been confirmed.

 

[Tagxy]

Kind of indifferent to it being fixed but its still a big deal.

 

[|RK|]

Hitstun Shuffling could refer to either Vectoring or SDI; speaking of which, can anyone check through the tips to see if this one is still there?

No need - I saw it post patch. Literally yesterday or day before.

 

[SamuraiPanda]

@ SamuraiPanda I posted the VI removal thread, let me know if you want me to add other content to it.

I'd prefer to avoid including any sort of "list" of combos or throws this effects, because any such list would be both huge and prone to infinite placebo effect.

Solid point. I already added it to the OP.

 

[InfinityCollision]

You mean... Hitstun Shuffling?

(That's what it's called in Tips - I saw it appear before a For Glory match the other day. Classification "Other."Did not take a picture, but I'm sure one of you will see it at some point.)

Yes, we've all seen it. That most likely refers to SDI.

That game is just getting casual without vectoring u_u
**** you Sakurai, I hope Vectoring is still on Wii U.

Never before have I heard someone imply that DI is in any way casual. In fact, I'd wager the vast majority of casuals don't even know that DI exists.

 

[Remzi]

This was actually my main beef with vectoring.

Same, its actually really my only issue with it at all.

To everyone panicking about the DI only letting you live a few percents more on mute city- remember that DI multipliers are very different depending on the attacks. We need more data.

 

[Deleted member]

Um. No.

As far as I can tell, vectoring is almost a non-factor, and DI doesn't appear to be much of one even if it is in, which still has not been confirmed.

I'm just going off what I've heard, not that I'm saying it's a definite. I know vectoring isn't in the game anymore, but the DI thing is a mixed bag from what I've seen.
Either way, I think it's nice that vectoring is gone. It'll make matches go by faster, kills will be easier to score, and it'll be easier to pull off combos.

 

[SonicZeroX]

Not to mention VI was often called noob DI. And it's really easy to do and required pretty much no thought. Like basically whenever you get hit all you have to do is hold down and you probably won't die even if you should have.

Now you actually have to think about what angles you want to fly at again.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Can confirm that sonic's Fsmash has more cooldown
http://smashboards.com/threads/1-0-4-judgement-day.378391/page-2#post-18017011

 

[Jigglystep]

Welll... the lack of vectoring is really sad, but if the community really needed that to play with 3 stocks u_u... then it's better not to have VI.

You realize that VI allowed for people to live at ridiculously high percents, right? From my understanding, VI influences not only the direction you're sent, but also the amount of knockback. DI does not.

 

[Kenjin]

Seriously, VI was a really strategic mecanic, you could force your ennemy to make a bad VI and Die earlier, you could chose to go further from your ennemy at low purcents, you had a better control on where you went, it was less automatic that DI, and made the difference, where DI almost never makes the difference.

I DO hope that it's a bug that vectoring is gone.

 

[Jaxas]

I'm honestly wondering if VI (and things like the ease of inputting Hyphen Smashes) were temporary until the Wii U version was released to be easier on 3DS controls?

Doubtful that they'd change something this big for such a reason, but it's certainly possible.

 

[lijero13ss]

I'm just going off what I've heard, not that I'm saying it's a definite. I know vectoring isn't in the game anymore, but the DI thing is a mixed bag from what I've seen.
Either way, I think it's nice that vectoring is gone. It'll make matches go by faster, kills will be easier to score, and it'll be easier to pull off combos.

Kind of ironic how removing something perceived as "casual" and "noobish" and replacing it with something "advanced" actually makes the game easier

 

[Pikabunz]

100% Mario VS Motion Sensor Bomb

1.0.0
No input - 172 launch speed
Holding up - 189
Holding down - 158

1.0.4
No input - 172
Holding up - 189
Holding down - 158

 

[Kenjin]

They should've NERFED VI instead of removing the mecanic itself. YES it was too strong but NO it's not a reason to destroy the skilled players that mastered it...

 

[Kenjin]

100% Mario VS Motion Sensor Bomb

Patch 1.0.0
No input - 172 launch speed
Holding up - 189
Holding down - 158

Patch 1.0.4
No input - 172
Holding up - 189
Holding down - 158

Damn, is it GONE or NOT? I'm gonna test it by myself

 

[Sickolas]

Seriously, VI was a really strategic mecanic, you could force your ennemy to make a bad VI and Die earlier, you could chose to go further from your ennemy at low purcents, you had a better control on where you went, it was less automatic that DI, and made the difference, where DI almost never makes the difference.

I DO hope that it's a bug that vectoring is gone.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Remzi]

100% Mario VS Motion Sensor Bomb

1.0.0
No input - 172 launch speed
Holding up - 189
Holding down - 158

1.0.4
No input - 172
Holding up - 189
Holding down - 158

Wait wut. Now I'm really confused.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

100% Mario VS Motion Sensor Bomb

1.0.0
No input - 172 launch speed
Holding up - 189
Holding down - 158

1.0.4
No input - 172
Holding up - 189
Holding down - 158

Knockback influence doesn't affect the post game stats.

 

[Ness EX-2 Plus ALPHA]

They should've NERFED VI instead of removing the mecanic itself. YES it was too strong but NO it's not a reason to destroy the skilled players that mastered it...

I'm sorry but "mastering" VI takes... what... 30 minutes to understand? One tutorial video maybe? A diagram?

Maybe they should have kept VI in - I don't know - but I don't think leaving it in just because people "mastered" it is a good enough reason.

 

[Jaxas]

Knockback influence doesn't affect the post game stats.

...I wonder if VI/KI/whatever worked by somehow transferring SDI to the duration of hitstun, so that you got the little teleports once per frame you're flying or something?
That would make certain things (like this) make sense; if that is the case, Vectoring could very well have just been a bug - no way to know for sure, though

 

[Kenjin]

I'm sorry but "mastering" VI takes... what... 30 minutes to understand? One tutorial video maybe? A diagram?

HAHAHAAH 30 minutes, seriously? You have no idea what you're talking about. You just didn't want to learn VI, and now you're happy you didn't have to anyway.

 

[byebye]

Welll... the lack of vectoring is really sad, but if the community really needed that to play with 3 stocks u_u... then it's better not to have VI.

3 stocks has it's good points. try it out. I have been playing almost always 2 stocks. but really that's not very effective & we like 3 stocks.

3 stocks is better IMO since:
- gimps are less powerful since there are more stocks
- allows for more risky plays off stage since there are extra stocks. SDs doesn't hurt as bad.
- it is more exciting / satisfying fighting your last stock and making a comeback vs your opponents 3.
- it is more exciting to 3 stock your opponent
- hard to pull of a comeback if only in 2 stocks most likely the winner of the 1st stock got heaps of advantage already.

 

[Jaxas]

3 stocks has it's good points. try it out. I have been playing almost always 2 stocks. but really that's not very effective & we like 3 stocks.

3 stocks is better IMO since:
- gimps are less powerful since there are more stocks
- allows for more risky plays off stage since there are extra stocks. SDs doesn't hurt as bad.
- it is more exciting / satisfying fighting your last stock and making a comeback vs your opponents 3.
- it is more exciting to 3 stock your opponent
- hard to pull of a comeback if only in 2 stocks most likely the winner of the 1st stock got heaps of advantage already.

While I agree with this, this isn't the thread for it. Go here for ruleset stuff.

 

[Pikabunz]

Knockback influence doesn't affect the post game stats.

Are you sure about that?

 

[Kenjin]

If what pikabunz said is right, it proves that Vactoring isn't gone.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Are you sure about that?

Yes, only rage affects post game stats, I remember testing this when vector was first discovered

 

[Linkshot]

Okay so DI is back. Just tested it with Link's Bombs at 150%. They seem to have an angle of 80. Trying to vector against them has no effect, DI right shifts it to about 85, DI down-left shifts it down to around 60.

EDIT in italics

 

[Pikabunz]

Yes, only rage affects post game stats, I remember testing this when vector was first discovered

How am i getting different launch speeds when I'm holding up/down then? I don't understand.

 

[Tagxy]

Itd be worth to double and triple check, but itd be surprising to have such drastically different death %'s for the same input if there wasnt some sort of change.

 

[andalsoandy]

HAHAHAAH 30 minutes, seriously? You have no idea what you're talking about. You just didn't want to learn VI, and now you're happy you didn't have to anyway.

Well, to be fair all it really was was aiming the control stick to influence the amount of knockback given to you.

Also try and keep the hostility down, man. You don't wanna start pointless arguments here.

 

[JAimee]

Maybe when yet another patch comes out for the game (because we all know that is going to happen,) some of the changes may get changed or even new add ons to the characters.

And I am a little bummed about Luma's increased respond time.

 

[Remzi]

Ok..... so:

I set up a test by rolling to the edge of FD with Charizard, spawning a motion sensor bomb in front of me, and jabbing it.

I've recorded the percent at which he dies off of the closer blast zone.

No Directional Input: Dies at 59
Holding Right: Dies at 66
Holding Up: Dies at 58
Holding Down: Dies at 61


I'm very, very confused.

 

[Big O]

100% Mario VS Motion Sensor Bomb

1.0.0
No input - 172 launch speed
Holding up - 189
Holding down - 158

1.0.4
No input - 172
Holding up - 189
Holding down - 158

Hmmmm....

I tried this with blast boxes and get 175 with holding any direction and with no inputs. I try it with motion sensor bombs and also get your results. Looks like this will need more testing. Not sure what to conclude. This might be on a per attack basis or something else weird.

 

[Sickolas]

HAHAHAAH 30 minutes, seriously? You have no idea what you're talking about. You just didn't want to learn VI, and now you're happy you didn't have to anyway.

All VI was was holding towards the stage, or just down. Definitely a skill to master in 10 minutes or less.

DI you have to know for every move you want to DI. Plus everyone was already used to DI anyways.

 

[Kenjin]

Well, to be fair all it really was was aiming the control stick to influence the amount of knockback given to you.

Also try and keep the hostility down, man. You don't wanna start pointless arguments here.

Wasn't speaking about the theory that you understand in 5 minutes (maybe it took 1 more minute to understand DI)

I'm telling that developping the reflex clearly takes hundred hours.

AND FORGETTING THAT REFLEX takes even more hours! I'm now litteraly less skilled in SSB4 only because I had skill before the patch!

 

[Sinister Slush]

I never played the 3DS version anyways, so I'm glad I didn't have to deal with VI once the wii u version comes out tomorrow.

Good job to the people with two Smash4 games and 3DS handhelds that's been doing the work for us early.