Common Custom Special Presets Survey

[Infinite901]

I forget that you're a still a kid sometimes, the things you say and your inability to comprehend basic texts really caught me off guard.

I will spell this out for you. You only use Robin in pools, friendlies and sets that DO NOT matter. Whenever you face a strong opponent in later ends of the bracket you never use Robin anymore and therefore you should be disregarded as a top Robin player.

Do you understand now?

Except despite being a Robin secondary or so he's still better with Robin that most Robin MAINS, probably including you.

Look dude, I keep telling you this, it's a good idea to get at least one more set for Goetia, but you're going at it in the worst ways possible. Calm down, stop randomly insulting people (as that NEVER helps an argument) and try to DECENTLY EXPLAIN your side.

 

[The_Cardinal]

I think it would be best if ALL OF US just dropped this conversation. There is no reason to protract it even further, especially since this thread has become too cluttered with this discussion to the point where 1) we're not even discussing customs anymore and 2) literally about 1/3 of this thread has been spent on this discussion.

So again, let's drop this and move on with our lives.

 

[Nairo]

I forget that you're a still a kid sometimes, the things you say and your inability to comprehend basic texts really caught me off guard.

I will spell this out for you. You only use Robin in pools, friendlies and sets that DO NOT matter. Whenever you face a strong opponent in later ends of the bracket you never use Robin anymore and therefore you should be disregarded as a top Robin player.

Do you understand now?

Seem kinda mad there but I'll respect what @ The_Cardinal wants. (Although might I say if I'm not a top Robin then I don't know what you would be considered lolol)

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Post redacted, turns out I was looking at the wrong character's custom numerical list at a very late hour and mistook them for Robin's list! My bad.

So, let's talk about Customs instead of insults real quick.

Specifically, Thunder+ wait stop laughing come back I'm serious hear me out

I'm not recommending it for 1 on 1. It's obviously not so great there unless you happen to really like hurling nothing but (admittedly much improved) Thunders and Elthunders in that format.

Instead, I am proposing a Thunder+ set for consideration in Teams play. With a good teammate, you actually have a realistic chance of getting Thoron+ charged. Suddenly you're holding on to a beam that hits as harder (or harder) than some character's f-smashes.

Now, I grant Teams is not a super common format... but it isn't ignored either. Would a Thunder+ set for this purpose be desired?

 

[Raziek]

So, let's talk about Customs instead of insults real quick.

Specifically, Thunder+ wait stop laughing come back I'm serious hear me out

I'm not recommending it for 1 on 1. It's obviously not so great there unless you happen to really like hurling nothing but (admittedly much improved) Thunders and Elthunders in that format.

Instead, I am proposing a Thunder+ set for consideration in Teams play. With a good teammate, you actually have a realistic chance of getting Thoron+ charged. Suddenly you're holding on to a beam that hits as harder (or harder) than some character's f-smashes.

Now, I grant Teams is not a super common format... but it isn't ignored either. Would a Thunder+ set for this purpose be desired?

2111 and 2311 are already on there, so I should think that pretty much covers it?

I agree Thunder+ isn't bad in teams.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

...Or I could have been mixing up another character's numerical custom move list for ours. Oops! Congratulations on catching me posting with blurry vision at 5 in the morning. I withdraw my remarks, sorry for the mistake!

 

[The_Cardinal]

It seems to me at least that the consensus with Firewall is that it is useful for very specific match-ups (feel free to correct me if you think I am wrong). So with that said, I think it would be helpful for all of us, especially those of us still new to customs, if we started discussing or at least listing what those match-ups are and I will start us off. Admittedly, however, I am inexperienced with using firewall so I am going to parrot what I (think I) heard from other Robin players like @ Raziek and @ Mr. Johan . In other words, I deserve none of the credit and I apologize if I misheard any information.

Potential match-ups to consider using firewall in:
Little Mac
Wario
Jigglypuff and Kirby (?)
Link and presumably toon link

Since the idea behind using firewall is to outcamp Link, then I assume we can apply the same logic to possibly Megaman and Villager as well?

 

[Mr. Johan]

I use Fire Wall for the Luigi MU as well. Luigi's looking for Fireball followups and Dash Grab opportunities, and Fire Wall is a nice temporary stop to that.

Same goes for any character that likes to SH/FH and throw aerials out indiscriminately. Lucario, Meta Knight, those guys. Fire Wall is a lingering hitbox of "No, not today" that lets you breath for a bit from the Fairs and Nairs.

 

[The_Cardinal]

I use Fire Wall for the Luigi MU as well. Luigi's looking for Fireball followups and Dash Grab opportunities, and Fire Wall is a nice temporary stop to that.

Hmm, I was actually considering running fire wall when I was playing against Xenobrawler yesterday but I didn't because I never used fire wall in an actual match.

Does this mean we can run it against Mario and Dr. Mario as well?

 

[Raziek]

Yes on all counts.

 

[Mr. Johan]

Well, anything's better than them running under Arcfire or caping it out of the way, so yeah.

 

[Nyrélhos]

Link and presumably toon link

Since the idea behind using firewall is to outcamp Link, then I assume we can apply the same logic to possibly Megaman and Villager as well?

I'm sorry, I don't really see the point to use Firewall against Link. Link has the arrows, the boomerang, the bombs, and even the clawshot to attack Robin without needing to go in close combat.
Plus, he's heavy, so Arcfire is a good startup to combo, and kill him at higher %. Approach a good Link is hard, since he can be a real wall of projectiles if he wants it, and I can't imagine a good Link at high % lets a Robin approaches him without doing anything. So why use Firewall instead ? For me, Firewall is clearly useful against rushdown and small characters in particular, like Sheik or Pikachu. (hit an all-time-SH-Sheik with Arcfire is really difficult I think)

 

[The_Cardinal]

I'm sorry, I don't really see the point to use Firewall against Link. Link has the arrows, the boomerang, the bombs, and even the clawshot to attack Robin without needing to go in close combat.
Plus, he's heavy, so Arcfire is a good startup to combo, and kill him at higher %. Approach a good Link is hard, since he can be a real wall of projectiles if he wants it, and I can't imagine a good Link at high % lets a Robin approaches him without doing anything. So why use Firewall instead ? For me, Firewall is clearly useful against rushdown and small characters in particular, like Sheik or Pikachu. (hit an all-time-SH-Sheik with Arcfire is really difficult I think)

Thanks for the response. Admittedly, discussion on using fire wall against Link has started recently. Like, yesterday recently as a result of @ Raziek 's training session with a Link player.

Default arcfire, while having a good reward on Link for the reasons you mentioned, can be pretty hard to land given its slow start-up and the fact that it will just innocuously detonate in midair when it collides with Link's projectiles, which will always happen given the nature of the match-up. Furthermore, the idea of using Firewall against Link isn't to approach; it's to aircamp him.

Here's a video reference, aka that training session I mentioned above. Raz starts using fire wall at around the 8:00 minute mark. It's a long video so no one actually expects you to watch the whole thing. Just watch a little bit of it for a reference. Note how incredibly long and campy these matches are. It's just part of the match-up.

 

[Meneil]

It seems to me at least that the consensus with Firewall is that it is useful for very specific match-ups (feel free to correct me if you think I am wrong). So with that said, I think it would be helpful for all of us, especially those of us still new to customs, if we started discussing or at least listing what those match-ups are and I will start us off. Admittedly, however, I am inexperienced with using firewall so I am going to parrot what I (think I) heard from other Robin players like @ Raziek and @ Mr. Johan . In other words, I deserve none of the credit and I apologize if I misheard any information.

Potential match-ups to consider using firewall in:
Little Mac
Wario
Jigglypuff and Kirby (?)
Link and presumably toon link

Since the idea behind using firewall is to outcamp Link, then I assume we can apply the same logic to possibly Megaman and Villager as well?

I've seriously been considering this too, especially as customs are becoming more legal here. There's absolutely no way that Firewall is useful in all situations. However, Firewall CAN be useful for matchups where characters stuff out our neutral ground game against Arcfire.

Here's a preliminary list I think is useful for Firewall, feel free to add/discus:
Mario (fireballs, aerials, and particularly the fact that his dash attack goes -under- Arcfire)
Luigi (unlike Mario his dash attack doesn't go under, but Luigi outclasses Robin in the mid-range zone with standard arcfire)
Link (both Robin and Link generally want to control the same mid-level of space. However, Arcfire leaves us more vulnerable, and Link can toss out his boomerang or an arrow to put Robin in a poor position. Instead of playing this game, we can just go around it and have more options aerially with Firewall)
Samus (similar to Link in terms of how she zones Robin)
Sheik (dash attack for going under arcfire, needles out of arcfire range, normal Arcfire is extremely unsafe unless the Sheik is trapped in a corner. Doesn't seem like there's much to lose here going Firewall at least)
Little Mac (our normal range for Arcfire isn't too threatening for his mobility, and he has multiple ways of going through arcfire)
Wario (Aerially zoning character, Firewall should theoretically limit more of Wario's options)


Possible Firewall characters:
Olimar?
Sonic?
Toon Link?
ZSS?
Greninja?

@ The_Cardinal I don't think I'd use Firewall against Villager because our mid-range game against him is decent. Villager prefers the longer range, chipping away with slingshots / gyroids / so on. Firewall would make us lose that mid-range area.

 

[The_Cardinal]

@ The_Cardinal I don't think I'd use Firewall against Villager because our mid-range game against him is decent. Villager prefers the longer range, chipping away with slingshots / gyroids / so on. Firewall would make us lose that mid-range area.

I see your point. Default arcfire may also be helpful when we are forced to fight a dreaded custom Villager near the ledge in the case of a stock/percent deficit.

 

[Froggy]

Against Link you should be using Arcfire+, it beats all of his projectiles on reaction pretty much. The utility of the other two do ot evne come close in campting matches.

 

[Nah]

Against Link you should be using Arcfire+, it beats all of his projectiles on reaction pretty much.

It does? I admittedly have very little experience with Arcfire+ and customs in general, but I'm not exactly seeing how it beats Link projectile spam.

 

[Raziek]

It does? I admittedly have very little experience with Arcfire+ and customs in general, but I'm not exactly seeing how it beats Link projectile spam.

[It doesn't, but according to him I don't know anything about anything]

 

[SpeedBump]

I'm not convinced about Arcfire+ beating out projectile spam. I was playing a friend recently online (who was using Villager) and I ran Speed Thunder with Arcfire+ to try it out after reading this discussion. It wasn't helpful at all. It takes longer to cast (free time to pocket it in this case), at a higher angle, and it clanked with things like slingshot. I feel like at best you'd clank with a projectile and go nowhere or you'd get hit while casting.

Worse, you can't do much with it even if you do hit them. I'm inclined to believe you're better off with just regular Arcfire if you don't want to run Fire Wall. At least the latter gives you protection in ways the default usually can't.

 

[Raziek]

I'm not convinced about Arcfire+ beating out projectile spam. I was playing a friend recently online (who was using Villager) and I ran Speed Thunder with Arcfire+ to try it out after reading this discussion. It wasn't helpful at all. It takes longer to cast (free time to pocket it in this case), at a higher angle, and it clanked with things like slingshot. I feel like at best you'd clank with a projectile and go nowhere or you'd get hit while casting.

Worse, you can't do much with it even if you do hit them. I'm inclined to believe you're better off with just regular Arcfire if you don't want to run Fire Wall. At least the latter gives you protection in ways the default usually can't.

You are completely correct.

 

[Mr. Johan]

Like, I guess Arcfire+ can be used on people with spotdodging habits or ledge jumping habits, but all it takes is one Arcfire+ to make them respect it and change up their pattern, and now suddenly you have a Side B that's only good for punishing heavy commitments.

 

[Froggy]

I'm not convinced about Arcfire+ beating out projectile spam. I was playing a friend recently online (who was using Villager) and I ran Speed Thunder with Arcfire+ to try it out after reading this discussion. It wasn't helpful at all. It takes longer to cast (free time to pocket it in this case), at a higher angle, and it clanked with things like slingshot. I feel like at best you'd clank with a projectile and go nowhere or you'd get hit while casting.

Worse, you can't do much with it even if you do hit them. I'm inclined to believe you're better off with just regular Arcfire if you don't want to run Fire Wall. At least the latter gives you protection in ways the default usually can't.

I wouldn't recommend it against villagers, he doesn't really beat Robin in the projectile war if you're running speed thunder and the last thing you want is for him to pocket it. But I can telling you're using arcfire+ wrong if it keeps clashing with things, you're supposed to short hop(or full hop depending on the situation) when they're using a vertical projectile so that it goes over it and hits them. Don't forget to advance or retreat in th air depending where your opponent is. Arcifre+ is not a brain dead move, like anything else it takes practice and intuitiveness to use it properly

I'm uploading it being used in a high stakes match now. I'll post it in like 30 minutes.

 

[Froggy]

Winners finals from a recent 3ds revolution.

Upon rewatching this I realize that I did not play well and arcfire+ really won me this match.

You'll notice how I appear to go even with Duck Hunt in the camping war instead of winning it, but that's because not once did I catch and throw my books back at him like I had intended. I was very nervous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMlVGhyUjco&feature=youtu.be

edit: Upon rewatching that I realize another great utility of arcfire + is covering your retreat. If you're forced to jump away from a projectile, you can use it against your opponent so he can't follow up on you, loses frame advantage and doesn't throw you off balance as he had intended.

 

[Chapter Serf]

When people put in a number in regards to customs (like 3111, or 1311 or 1231) what number refers to which special?

And the use of 4 numbers appears kinda universal. It's not just here.

 

[Raziek]

When people put in a number in regards to customs (like 3111, or 1311 or 1231) what number refers to which special?

And the use of 4 numbers appears kinda universal. It's not just here.

(Neutral-Side-Up-Down)

 

[PK Gaming]

I've been using Thunder+ against characters I can get away with (ie: Bowser) or characters that need the extra fire power against (ie: Wario)

It's nowhere near as consistent as Thunder, but landing this move can straight up decide the match. Still far from great though.

 

[Meneil]

Robin already has plenty of 'hard read' kill moves, it's not like he needs another IMO. What we really need is more zoning control and safe ways of limiting the opponents' options. Speed thunder does all of this. Ever play a villager, feel frantic when they get the stock lead, and then they just try to run around in circles and wait for you to mess up? Robin's speed thunder gives us more tools to apply pressure and remain at a distance. We do it in a totally different way than Villager, but it's still defensive play.

If you know your opponent is just going to run into everything, then sure, I guess normal thunder or thunder+ will work (same read, just more %). I'd rather keep all my options open by using speed thunder though, forcing them to make a mistake, rather than waiting for them to make a mistake.

 

[PK Gaming]

Thunder+ takes "hard read" kill move quotient to the next level, with its full screen capabilities and early KO threshold. Not sure why you brought up Speed Thunder considering Thunder+ would obviously be used in matchups where the former isn't that useful (which aren't many, admittedly)

 

[941]

With the exception of Speed Thunder, all of Robin's customs seem very situational. Thunder+ and Arcfire+ are only useful as slow KO moves, which Robin already has an abundance of. I don't think Firewall is much better than Jab/F-tilt/D-tilt as a defensive option. I suppose aerial Firewall might be OK in a few MUs, but I still don't think it's much better than default Arcfire. Soaring Elwind just seems slower than default, while Drifting Elwind just makes Robin's recovery even more predictable. Distant Nosferatu confuses me, as it's less rewarding for being more difficult to land. I though Goetia was good, until I tried it against actual people and they could just jump out as it pulled them in

 

[Froggy]

Winners finals from a recent 3ds revolution.

Upon rewatching this I realize that I did not play well and arcfire+ really won me this match.

You'll notice how I appear to go even with Duck Hunt in the camping war instead of winning it, but that's because not once did I catch and throw my books back at him like I had intended. I was very nervous.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMlVGhyUjco&feature=youtu.be

edit: Upon rewatching that I realize another great utility of arcfire + is covering your retreat. If you're forced to jump away from a projectile, you can use it against your opponent so he can't follow up on you, loses frame advantage and doesn't throw you off balance as he had intended.

You asked for evidence of Arcfife+ being used in the camping war effectively and I delvered. What do you think? Do you feel stupid now?

With the exception of Speed Thunder, all of Robin's customs seem very situational. Thunder+ and Arcfire+ are only useful as slow KO moves, which Robin already has an abundance of. I don't think Firewall is much better than Jab/F-tilt/D-tilt as a defensive option. I suppose aerial Firewall might be OK in a few MUs, but I still don't think it's much better than default Arcfire. Soaring Elwind just seems slower than default, while Drifting Elwind just makes Robin's recovery even more predictable. Distant Nosferatu confuses me, as it's less rewarding for being more difficult to land. I though Goetia was good, until I tried it against actual people and they could just jump out as it pulled them in .

Arcfire+ rarely Kos actually. The main point of is to rack up damage on people spamming projectiles and also to knock them off stage. I admit it's very situation, should only be used in camping matchup which coincidentally are the matchups where the other variation of arcfire+ sucks

 

[Raziek]

I really don't, no.

First and foremost I don't think the Duck Hunt was playing it properly. If he knows you've got it, he should be tossing out his can when you're charging Thunder, so that you can't react to it w/ Arcfire+.

Second, I think the tactics that you used with it don't really work on literally any other tournament legal stage.

What do you do with platforms in the way? What do you do if he has a platform to stand on? I don't see this strategy working on Lylat, BF, SV, even T&C is dicey.

Given the inflexibility of this strategy and the move's incredibly linear applications, I can't say this evidence is compelling at all.

Even in this matchup specifically, this strat gets blown up if he runs Giant Gunman and just puts it directly in the way.

 

[Infinite901]

You asked for evidence of Arcfife+ being used in the camping war effectively and I delvered. What do you think? Do you feel stupid now?

Dude seriously, stop, you are getting nowhere, and calling people stupid will literally only make you look stupid instead.

You know what, I don't think you even read my posts so I'm gonna stop bothering. Have fun in life with that attitude of yours.

 

[XL_]

I feel Goetia is pretty viable but I need more practice using it, otherwise I like the tried and true Robin custom sets that everyone does.

2111
2113
2311
2313
3111
3113
3311
3313

 

[ARGHETH]

I feel Goetia is pretty viable but I need more practice using it, otherwise I like the tried and true Robin custom sets that everyone does.

2111
2113
2311
2313
3111
3113
3311
3313

???Umm, are you proposing to change 2311 to 2313 and 3311 to 3313? I can't really tell, sorry.
Anyways, I'm not sure if those changes would really work out, but Speed Thunder + Fire Wall, for one, is a rather important set, and I think regular Nosferatu fits it better than the laggier Goetia.

 

[XL_]

???Umm, are you proposing to change 2311 to 2313 and 3311 to 3313? I can't really tell, sorry.
Anyways, I'm not sure if those changes would really work out, but Speed Thunder + Fire Wall, for one, is a rather important set, and I think regular Nosferatu fits it better than the laggier Goetia.

I'm not proposing any changes, all I was doing was putting up the sets that I personally find viable. Which really is to say I use the same sets that are already in rotation basically, with the exception of adding Goetia to the "Speed/T. + and Firewall" sets. There's already 3311 and 2311 but there's no 3313 or 2313 which I feel could be a little more viable than the ones that change Elwind from just my own personal experience.

 

[PK Gaming]

I'm starting to feel that Goetia > Nos

The bigger range and vacuum effect is a big deal in most matchups. Healing is nice, but Goetia is a stronger command grab and more reliable.