Common Custom Special Presets Survey

[Raziek]

So, there's a concerted effort to get a set of 'commonly used customs' from each character board to help standardize custom moves a bit more.

http://smashboards.com/threads/project-proposal-we-can-make-custom-moves-fast-easy-and-legal.379555/

I'd like to get an idea of what other people are using as well!

My list:

2111
3111
3311
2311

I don't think many of the Nos/Elwind customs are important, but we've got like 4-6 free slots to work with, so if you guys have any others to add, feel free to do so, and do your best to detail why you feel that set is useful.

For those unfamiliar with the notation:

(Thunder)(Arcfire)(Elwind)(Nosferatu) is the custom order, and I indicate which custom using numbers.

So 2311 is Thunder+, Fire Wall, Default Elwind, Default Nosferatu.

Thanks!

 

[LIQUID12A]

Only custom set I ever use is 2311, personally.

 

[The Merc]

So, there's a concerted effort to get a set of 'commonly used customs' from each character board to help standardize custom moves a bit more.

http://smashboards.com/threads/project-proposal-we-can-make-custom-moves-fast-easy-and-legal.379555/

I'd like to get an idea of what other people are using as well!

My list:

2111
3111
3311
2311

I don't think many of the Nos/Elwind customs are important, but we've got like 4-6 free slots to work with, so if you guys have any others to add, feel free to do so, and do your best to detail why you feel that set is useful.

For those unfamiliar with the notation:

(Thunder)(Arcfire)(Elwind)(Nosferatu) is the custom order, and I indicate which custom using numbers.

So 2311 is Thunder+, Fire Wall, Default Elwind, Default Nosferatu.

Thanks!

Well, I usually don't use customs on when play with CPU because of how random it can be. However, when i do, I usually use;


1321
2311
2111
1311

Big list I know but I am prepare for ever occasion, as should any good tactician should be .

 

[Raziek]

You use Soaring Elwind?

...... why? >_>

 

[Mr. Johan]

3111 & 2111 are the sets I typically use. The way I try and use Arcfire conflicts with how Fire Wall works, so I keep it alone.

I may experiment with an XXX2 set for those I absolutely want to keep at midrange, like Megaman, but that won't see much use compared to XXX1 sets.

 

[The Merc]

You use Soaring Elwind?

...... why? >_>

Because I like Recovering? Any way, I made a few changes so...... there?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Even though Distant Nosferatu is probably inferior to Nosferatu, I think pairing it with Arcfire is worth considering since it has basically the same range so you can mixup your followups or try to tag their shield.

2112 (I think I got those numbers right. Thunder+/Arcfire/Elwind/Distant Nosferatu)

Also Gliding Elwind, even though it doesn't go as high, feels a lot faster in use than Elwind and I like the more rapid pace along with Speed Thunder and Fire Wall.

3331 (Speed Thunder/Fire Wall/Gliding Elwind/Nosferatu)

I also heard Arcfire+ is particularly good against Luma because reasons? IDK. Similarly I like the idea behind Goetia but is it ever useful?

Also 2111 and 3311 but those are pretty standard apparently so that's hardly news.

 

[Meta651]

I have 2 presets, one is 2111 that I use often and especially if I'm against a slow foe so I can kill earlier with Thoron. The other is is 3311 when I'm against rushdowns characters like Greninja or Little Mac, Fire Wall comes out fast and the same for speed thunder.

If I'm in a 4 free for all I use sometimes distant nosferatu just to surprise and make my friends angry and say WTF dude.

 

[Raziek]

Because I like Recovering? Any way, I made a few changes so...... there?

I can't say I can really agree with Soaring like.... ever. You have almost no control over your horizontal momentum, makes you a sitting duck for edge-guards since you can't vary your angle.

Even though Distant Nosferatu is probably inferior to Nosferatu, I think pairing it with Arcfire is worth considering since it has basically the same range so you can mixup your followups or try to tag their shield.

2112 (I think I got those numbers right. Thunder+/Arcfire/Elwind/Distant Nosferatu)

Also Gliding Elwind, even though it doesn't go as high, feels a lot faster in use than Elwind and I like the more rapid pace along with Speed Thunder and Fire Wall.

3331 (Speed Thunder/Fire Wall/Gliding Elwind/Nosferatu)

I also heard Arcfire+ is particularly good against Luma because reasons? IDK. Similarly I like the idea behind Goetia but is it ever useful?

Also 2111 and 3311 but those are pretty standard apparently so that's hardly news.

I maintain that I don't think Gliding is a good idea 99% of the time. Really limits your off-stage game and recovery flexibility on HOW to get to the ledge.

Arcfire+ is...... just use regular Arcfire, lol. It's just not worth it. Maybe niche in a match-up or two, but regular Arcfire does pretty much all the same stuff except better.

 

[The Merc]

I can't say I can really agree with Soaring like.... ever. You have almost no control over your horizontal momentum, makes you a sitting duck for edge-guards since you can't vary your angle.

I maintain that I don't think Gliding is a good idea 99% of the time. Really limits your off-stage game and recovery flexibility on HOW to get to the ledge.

Arcfire+ is...... just use regular Arcfire, lol. It's just not worth it. Maybe niche in a match-up or two, but regular Arcfire does pretty much all the same stuff except better.

Well then, I guess I will change it then........again.

 

[Raziek]

Well then, I guess I will change it then........again.

Well, I mean, you don't have to stop using it, I'm mainly just trying to figure out why.

Like, do you feel it helps in specific match-ups, or what?

 

[S.F.L.R_9]

I often use the standards because I go on For Glory a lot and it's just what I'm used to, but Robin's customs can change a hard matchup to a much more manageable one.
What I generally use with customs is 3111 (Speed Thunder, Arcfire, regular Elwind, and Nosferatu)

Speed Thunder is generally used for zoning which in most cases is what regular thunder is used for, and Arcthunder still traps opponents allowing you to kill them with uair / usmash / whatever, so you're not sacrificing too much compared to the speed you gain. Thunder+ can be used for slow characters that will take a while to approach, so I see either as a viable alternative.

Arcfire just because it's a good approach and to trap, but I can definitely see the positives Fire Wall has so I think it just depends on the matchup / what the player feels comfortable with.

Elwind is simply the most well rounded of them, however I can see Gliding Elwind having a use in matchups where the opponents have a bad recovery and they don't want to chase you off stage (like Little Mac). All you have to do is use it while they're off stage and they aren't coming back. Nobody would expect it either, and even if they do expect it and air dodge you can still throw out an Arcfire and then use Gliding Elwind. About the recovery part, since the opponent doesn't want to come off the stage, it's no problem as long as you learn to properly angle it for the edge.

Nosferatu just because I like to do an empty jump and Nosferatu on the inevitable shield. Doing jab 1 and then Nosferatu also works, but like @ ParanoidDrone said, Distant Nosferatu is a unexpected mixup and is a lot easier to land than regular Nos.

Overall, I think either 3111 or 2311 will be the standard sets we see most players use, however each custom still has a use in certain matchuos except for poor goetia lol
i just realized this post is really long, geez. hope it helps at least.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Thanks Raziek for getting a head start on figuring out Robin's most tactical plays for custom moves and to everyone else who is taking part in this vibrant discussion. To clarify what we want to end up with, we are looking for up to three critical sets (other than 1111) that represent Robin's best, most general purpose options and then to fill up to slot 6 with supplemental options that may be more niche for Robin but that some players might want to pick anyway. Slots 7 and 8 for now are being used on 2222 and 3333 so all players can explore all of these moves in the early metagame, and 9 and 10 are left opten for 3ds import on tournament day.

 

[Raziek]

IF we were going to pick 3 critical set-ups, I'd say it'd be:

2111
3111

then either 3311 or 2311. Leaning towards the former.

 

[Célja]

I have been so used to default Robin that when I do go to use any custom moves, it almost feels like I'm playing a different character. It would take me a whole match just to get used to whatever Arcfire or Elwind I might have on them, since I ended up screwing around and building all 10 slots for different combinations of the custom moves. I'll usually stick with either 2111 or 3111, really just depends.Though if I want to get crazy, I'll play with custom characters on, and fight other CPU Robin setups against my own unique ones. One of my personal favorites would either be my 2223 build I dubbed Sorceror, or, my 3331 set up named Sage.

I think 3231 is interesting. In my experience with it, I play a lot more campy with it and Speed Thunder allows me to charge up really quick in case someone gets in close. Arcfire+ I enjoy for it's added knockback, but the lag of it makes it more useful for off stage or for faraway attacks.Gliding Elwind is rather self-explanatory, but I need to remember that I don't go as high and it's more horizontal.

A somewhat opposite one I found to be fun to play with is 2333. Thunder+ gets ridiculous with how early it can kill, but the fact that you're limited to one Thoron per tome means you really need to watch your usage. Fire Wall helps any one trying to rush you down when you might be building a charge, or could be a useful edgeguard, but I haven't tried that out much.

My opinions on the Elwind is that go with either Gliding or Default Elwind. While soaring Elwind does have even more vertical recovery, it gives you barely any horizontal movement during the move, and even a little after casting both. Gliding is good, but again, have problems switching between them and will forget I don't recover as high.

As for Nosferatu customs, I have yet to try out Distant, for the idea that I heal less from it was a turn off, and Goetia not healing at all didn't seem to great. Tried out Goetia in a setup, found it to be interesting since it's all damage and does have a much larger grab box. These are really more of a preference to me for I rarely use down special in an actual match, but most of the time I just go default Nosferatu so on the off chance I do connect, I can heal a bit and maybe get a tome to use once I break it.

Wow, I didn't realize I wrote so much...

 

[Raziek]

I suppose it's also worth tagging

@ Nairo @Xzax Kasrani and @Trela , as the active Robin players I've seen recently. (Though I think Trela is playing mostly Shulk now)

 

[Meta651]

Since we're in the topic of customs, is really useful Goetia with the larger hitbox and increased damage over the benefit of healing?
If there's a lot of difference in damage you can recover a lot, one example is when you just killed one stock of your opponent and you have like 120%, a good read with Nosferatu and you can survive longer and stall.

At least a I can do something a follow with Goetia?

 

[Raziek]

I pretty much always run default Nos and land it numerous times per game. I see little reason to run either of the others. Situation-dependent Arcfire-Distant Nos combos are about the only reason you should, IMHO.

Goetia just.... doesn't really have many situations where it makes sense to run it over either of the others.

 

[Hong]

Goetia is my favourite of the three since all I care about is the grab. That said, if we have a limited number of slots and I'm the one odd one who actually likes the move, I won't hold everyone else back to have it.

 

[Tattles]

Since we're in the topic of customs, is really useful Goetia with the larger hitbox and increased damage over the benefit of healing?
If there's a lot of difference in damage you can recover a lot, one example is when you just killed one stock of your opponent and you have like 120%, a good read with Nosferatu and you can survive longer and stall.

At least a I can do something a follow with Goetia?

It's hard to say, there are a lot of different opinion on the value of Nosferatu. Some people say the healing is irrelevant, others say that the healing is the most important part of it. I think it's a very case-to-case type of thing.

Personally, I lean more towards damage and size over the the healing aspect of it. So i'd take Goetia.

 

[The Merc]

Well, I mean, you don't have to stop using it, I'm mainly just trying to figure out why.

Like, do you feel it helps in specific match-ups, or what?

Oh, just sometimes whe going off stage, I tend to go a little of deep for the normal Elwind, so I choose Elwind 2 so that I am able to recover in case I go to deep.

 

[Hong]

It's hard to say, there are a lot of different opinion on the value of Nosferatu. Some people say the healing is irrelevant, others say that the healing is the most important part of it. I think it's a very case-to-case type of thing.

Personally, I lean more towards damage and size over the the healing aspect of it. So i'd take Goetia.

What do you run with Goetia? Maybe we can have at least one setup that has Goetia. Personally I run stock for everything else, but I am perfectly okay with any other incarnation of Thunder.

 

[Tattles]

What do you run with Goetia? Maybe we can have at least one setup that has Goetia. Personally I run stock for everything else, but I am perfectly okay with any other incarnation of Thunder.

I would stick with normal Elfire and Elwind, but Speed Thunder is definitely something I would take.

3113
1113

 

[Nairo]

i think robins standard 1111 is the best arcfires 1 is the only one that makes the enemy stay in the fire right? best combo starter so id stay with that. The only thing I would probably switch is thunder I didn't test that much with some customs so I can't remember which do what. If we HAVE to post a custom moveset then il make another post with my moveset

 

[LIQUID12A]

To expand on my previous post:

2311

Thoron+, Fire Wall, Default Elwind, Default Nosferatu

Elwind and Nosferatu are great tools, so their customs do seem very niche to me. Altering the total height of your recovery or giving up reliable healing/making it go a bit farther are things I dislike the idea of using. Last two slots should usually be default IMHO unless they help in a specific situation.

Thoron+ is amazing, with the power behind it being ridiculous. It being limited to a single charged shot is offset by its huge damage, which can kill at even at averagely high percentages(say 100%)just by touching the tip of the blast. And of course, the insane damage is boosted by holding B. What a great tool. a totally mundane use of thoron+ is doing large amounts of damage to hazards, try it sometime

Fire Wall is an interesting option for me. The ability to summon a small barrier nigh instantly at point blank works wonders in relieving pressure being applied to Robin via speedsters that can close in easily. Even if it's blocked, you can always attempt a throw afterwards or even begin charging a Thoron while they stand there and wait for the wall to expire. I honestly prefer this over normal Arcfire due to its reliability.

So there you have it.

 

[Loki]

What needed to be said has already been said. I favour stock Robin (1111) over the rest, and while I also preffer normal thunder over thunder+ or speed, I agree that the other important sets are 2111, 3111 and 2311... I would however maybe also add 1311, cause I am a sucker for normal thunder but like firewall stopping power.

 

[Delzethin]

It seems like the big four are:

2-1-1-1
3-1-1-1
3-3-1-1
2-3-1-1

I can't speak for the other tacticians using variants of Elwind and Nosferatu, but they seem significantly less used.

 

[Hong]

If we can only have so many sets, best we can disregard Arcfire+ (2) and variations of Elwind.

If something is to change one of those custom special moves, it should probably use stock specials for everything else. Thunder in particular literally just has numerical variation for its specials. Would likely please the greatest range of people to have default Thunder for niche builds since it's between the two other options in speed and power.

So aside from @ Delzethin 's above, could just have 1112 and 1113 as the other options. With Distant Nosferatu, with its very unique application I think it will find use in a very control-based style before long.

 

[The_Cardinal]

A potentially interesting set to bring in a projectile war/campy player might be 3112. Blast near instant elthunders or charge thoron faster to rip through projectiles more often and use distant nosferatu to pressure their shields from afar, which is often the tendency when going against projectiles. Arcfire can also combo into arcthunder for a flashy, far ranged (but not necessarily optimal) combo.

If we are to only agree on a few custom sets, however, then I would just scrap 3112 for 3111. Similar enough.

 

[Icebeatsfire]

2111
3111
2311
3311
1112
3112
At-least these are the six I deem the most worthy IMHO.

 

[Tattles]

I really feel the need to stress sets such as 3113 and 1113. Goetia is something that will definitely be preferred by more than a couple of players. It can't really be brushed off like the Elwind variants (which seem to be inferior in every way), since Goetia is the perfect example of a trade-off; and an attractive one, at that.

I think at least 1113 needs to exist.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Why 1113 instead of, say, 2113? It seems like what most Robins prefer 2111, 3111, 2311, and 3311 as four of the six options for use and that the two Nosferatu variants are likely going to be the most popular last choices so they should probably be paired with the most mainstream Thunder and Arcfire variants. It seems like Thunder+ and default Arcfire are most likely to get those nods to me; is that a wrong interpretation of this discussion?

 

[Raziek]

I would guess the regular one was selected as a balance between the two options.

 

[Pazzo.]

I use the following: 2-1-1-1.

I prefer the default specials, save Thunder. While not bad, I think Thunder+ is better overall.

 

[Xerox the beautiful]

1111
2111
3111
1311
2311
3311

These are the sets I use most often. I also run Fire + and all versions of Nosferatu rarely but not nearly enough for me to really care about them. If I could only pick one set to standardize I'd go with 1311. I think the middle ground default thunder provides is good in a larger variety of match ups then the other two speed thunder especially. Fire wall is also the best option most of the time it's quick has good knock back and covers what would otherwise be a blind spot above and in front of Robin.

 

[Icebeatsfire]

So which of the nos customs should take up the last two slots:
Distant nos or Goetia

 

[BluCommander]

So which of the nos customs should take up the last two slots:
Distant nos or Goetia

Maybe have one for each? If we had to pick only one Nos I'd definitely go with Goetia.

Maybe do a 1313 for using Fire Wall into Goetia and 1112 for Arcfire into Distant Nos (really the only practical use I see for Distant Nos)

 

[Mac2492]

I feel like the most popular custom sets have already been established from the beginning.
Speed Thunder or Thunder+ paired with Arcfire or Firewall. Elwind/Nosferatu vanilla.
2111
2311
3111
3311

Arcfire+ can be useful against Luma because its knockback is horizontal and Luma cannot dodge/shield it like a player.
Distant Nosferatu almost has to be paired with Arcfire because of the Arcfire->Nosfera2 combo.
Soaring Elwind is purely for recovery while at the same time highly punishable. Niche pick.
Gliding Elwind spikes on both hits and is overlooked as an offensive tool because it's trickier to recover with.
@ Tattles What do you feel the strengths of Goetia are? Imo the only reason Nosferatu is useful is the heal. A laggy command grab for 20 damage and no KB doesn't make much sense to me. On paper the Nosferatu customs seem fine but in practice they feel less useful.

My personal setups:
2131 - Power build targeted at Slow/Moderate characters.
3331 - Speed build targeted at Fast/Projectile characters.
Same as everyone else but with Gliding Elwind. Elwind is likely the optimal choice but Gliding Elwind's offensive potential is superior. Try using the second hit as a quick spike before throwing this move out. It's less safe but much more dangerous.

 

[EmblemCrossing]

Can someone explain to me why Thunder + is generally more popular than Speed Thunder? I love Speed because it turns thunder into a fairly quick move to get out, and I can't seem to like Thunder+. (There's gotta be something I'm missing here..)

 

[Raziek]

As of late, I've actually been favouring Default Thunder the most, mainly due to the amazing versatility of the move.

Elthunder is godlike zoning, Arcthunder is amazing, Thoron is ridiculously good punish/kill tool.

Speed Thunder I use in certain matchups like Rosalina, Falcon and Sheik, mainly for Speed Arcthunder.

Thunder+ is really only good if you win neutral hard enough to run Super Mega Death Lazer (TM) as a punish/kill tool.