Clones in Smash Wii U/3DS - Is Lucina the Exception or the Rule?

[DaDavid]

Yeah I definitely doubt that Lucina is the only clone added, but I'm feeling based on his wording that Lucina is the clones most similar to their original, since she was almost just an alt skin and all.

 

[Xigger]

My take on this, is that Lucina was planned as an alternate costume (Sakurai did mention this in Famitsu) with a new voice, just like Villager/Robins/WiiFitTrainers, except Lucina plays a little differently and is a little shorter, so they simply moved her over. Not wasting extra development time or "character slots."

I don't think she really "takes up a slot" in the conventional way the community likes to think about it. Instead of rule or exception, I'm okay with semi-clones AND clones. Heck, I'm especially okay with alternate costume characters.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

We don't need three clones of one character.

We don't need, we get anyway.
Sakurai: Krystal requested for Brawl? *laughs*

 

[Cheesedork]

I'd expect 2-3 more clones. Dunno how many alts. Hopefully a lot cuz they're cool.

Good potential alts:
Daisy, Dark Pit, Doctor Mario, Falco
Hm... I can't really think of any other right now.

Good potential clones:
Dixie Kong, Medusa, Bowser Jr., Black Shadow, Shulk/Isaac(?)

In my opinion, at least.

 

[HugoBoss]

I hope Lucina is the exception.
Remembering time constraints and resources, what would be better, three Melee clone newcomers, or one unique and diverse newcomer?

Pitoo, Louie, and Slippy as Melee clones?

Or perhaps Kystal, Dixie, King K Rool, Shulk, Marshal, Issac, or Sami as separate fighters?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Lucina is probably the rule that clones will be added and I extremely doubt she's the only one.

 

[Delzethin]

I think it depends.

Sakurai said Lucina was basically a fluke...but why did they go out of their way to make her a distinct character? Could it have been because they had the time available? If so, then we could actually see clones added in as a bonus this time around, rather than being added to pad the roster because of time constraints as they were in Melee? Could we potentially see the likes of Bowser Jr. or Tetra added because there was time left over?

Or maybe Lucina really is the only new clone. Hard to say just yet.

(And how would Pittoo work as a clone when even in-universe he's physically identical to Pit in everything but color?)

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Daisy and Dark Pit, nuff said.

 

[DANICK]

Probably falco and wolf will be still clones but with hash diferences this time like moveset special, final smash, etc. I can't think of dixie be a clone of Diddy, maybe he get attacks of them but not all

 

[alanswindoll]

Dunno about clones, but if I may make a point; If Dark Pit was intended they would've done like they did with Robin and Lucina and done a double trailer. That, and look at Chrom and Lucina's special art. Both the new playable fighters are shown front and center.

Why is that necessarily true that would've done a double trailer? When they teased Game & Watch at the end of Pac-Man's trailer, he was neither confirmed nor denied as a returning veteran or given a "double trailer". It's not a fluke that Dark Pit was teased in the trailer and is in Palutena's reveal poster. He is in this game. We just don't know in what capacity. I think he was originally going to be an alternate costume for Pit, but may have been upgraded to a Lucina-style clone, given Sakurai's comments about giving former costume characters a separate spot on the character select screen.

 

[Koopaul]

Look at what Sakurai said about Chrom and why he didn't put him in the game and put in Robin instead. Too many sword fighters. And yet he still had Lucina in the game. Why? Because she wasn't working out as an alternate costume. It seems to me Sakurai doesn't want to add too many clones and Lucina was more of an accident.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Look at what Sakurai said about Chrom and why he didn't put him in the game and put in Robin instead. Too many sword fighters. And yet he still had Lucina in the game. Why? Because she wasn't working out as an alternate costume. It seems to me Sakurai doesn't want to add too many clones and Lucina was more of an accident.

He didn't say "too many sword fighters." He said that Chrom couldn't differentiate enough from Marth and Ike. HUGE difference. Robin is technically a sword fighter, anyway. The difference is Robin can use swords and magic. Chrom could be original, but he couldn't bring anything new on his base abilities.

Lucina was a skin, and he felt that she could do something different, so she was made a clone instead. Its probably the notion that he thought she could be an "easier" Marth by not giving her Marth's tipper.

 

[alanswindoll]

Look at what Sakurai said about Chrom and why he didn't put him in the game and put in Robin instead. Too many sword fighters. And yet he still had Lucina in the game. Why? Because she wasn't working out as an alternate costume. It seems to me Sakurai doesn't want to add too many clones and Lucina was more of an accident.

You could be right. Or maybe he had a lot of ideas for alternate costumes and a few of them didn't quite make sense from a design standpoint to be an alternate costume, so he promoted 2 or 3 of them to be separate Lucina-style clones.

Lucina was a skin, and he felt that she could do something different, so she was made a clone instead. Its probably the notion that he thought she could be an "easier" Marth by not giving her Marth's tipper.

I believe Lucina was given a different sword sweet spot mechanic because she was getting her own spot on the roster, not the other way around. The reason she was given a separate spot on the roster was not because of an arbitary sweet spot mechanic somehow being essential but because from a design standpoint, it seemed a little off to have a separate character be an alternate costume. Instead of dropping the costume, he promoted the costume to a clone and gave the clone a few minor arbitrary changes.

 

[JaidynReiman]

You could be right. Or maybe he had a lot of ideas for alternate costumes and a few of them didn't quite make sense from a design standpoint to be an alternate costume, so he promoted 2 or 3 of them to be separate Lucina-style clones.


I believe Lucina was given a different sword sweet spot mechanic because she was getting her own spot on the roster, not the other way around. The reason she was given a separate spot on the roster was not because of an arbitary sweet spot mechanic somehow being essential but because from a design standpoint, it seemed a little off to have a separate character be an alternate costume. Instead of dropping the costume, he promoted the costume to a clone and gave the clone a few minor arbitrary changes.

Again, I think Sakurai was perfectly content with her being a skin, but after looking over her, he decided she could do something slightly different. I don't agree with the notion that she was only given the sweet spot because she was being promoted to full character, Sakurai clearly stated that he decided to give her something different and that's why she was given her own slot. Marth's tipper is a unique feature to him, he might've thought that people would like a character like Marth (a very popular fighter) who was a little easier to use, so he removed the tipper and gave Lucina her own slot on the roster.

 

[alanswindoll]

Sakurai clearly stated that he decided to give her something different and that's why she was given her own slot.

I wouldn't say that Sakurai clearly stated that, but your interpretation is plausible given his statement. Here is what he said about Lucina so we can have a frame of reference:

"Lucina uses the same techniques as Marth...I even went so far as to make their strength, speed, and special attacks almost identical.

However, what sets Lucina apart is the fact that the strength of her attacks is uniform along the blade...I think that Lucina will be much easier than Marth for novice players to play with.

Initially, I had considered including Lucina as one of Marth's alternate costumes...In such cases, even if two characters' names and voices differ, as long as they function the same way, I assign them as alternate costumes. The Wii Fit Trainers, Villagers, and Robin are examples of this setup.

However, even though Lucina shares her physical stats and techniques with Marth, the characteristics of their attacks differ. When two such similar characters function in an even slightly different manner, I give them a separate spot on the roster..."

Maybe he did prioritize having a "non-tipper" Marth when promoting this alternate costume. He did go so far as to say that even if two characters have different names, then he will assign them as alternate costumes. However, the examples he cited of this all have the same names, so its unclear why he cited them as examples of this setup. They do function the same and have different voices but they have the same names. If this credo stands, that means a character like Dark Pit or Daisy would still simply be an alternate costume of Pit and Peach, respectively, even though their names and voices would differ. I think this is a reasonable interpretation but its not at all clear other clone/costume situations will function in the same way as Male/Female variations versus the Marth/Lucina variation.