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Clone Engine Misc. Discussion Thread

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skstylez

Smash Journeyman
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Shulk is my most anticipated character for Smash 4. The only way I would want it here is if he didn't make it into smash 4, because this game would officially kill my hype
 

Hungry Headcrab

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3. Black Shadow (F-Zero) - Captain Falcon's archnemesis, a decent enough reason for him to be in (Samurai Goroh is an alternative, although he would probably need a sword). Aside from that, why Black Shadow? So he can completely take over Ganondorf's moveset, fit it perfectly... and let the team come up with something completely new and actually ZELDA-like for Ganondorf (MAGIC, swords, etc.). The melee Ganondorf was a total cop-out, and Brawl just continued that.

Am I the only one who feels that Ganon's moveset actually makes a lot of sense in Smash Bros.? I mean, his Melee appearance was based on Ocarina of Time, where he does not use a sword at all outside of beast mode.

What does he do? He throws magic around and punches stuff, even going so far as to demolish his own throne room with nothing but a mighty Ganon fist.

That being said, he should have some magic projectile of some sort. Yellow orbs that can be reflected whenever an attack/bottle/butterfly net clashes with it would be neat. You can take away his neutral-B. Nobody will mind, honest.

Oh yeah, also:

Leon - Team Star Fox vs. Team Star Wolf could be a thing.

King K. Rool - Game needs more villains. K. Rool is villain.

Isaac - Psynergy and junk.
 

GigasOverlord

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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P:M just needs Mewtwo at this point. I know that projectiles are hell to code with the CE, but all of Melee's Clone characters have them. The whole Cease and Desist thing is a HUGE warning label as well.

Mewtwo is a unique character all his own in Melee with his weird movement and reach options. The only things that are fundamentally wrong with him were his speed and Confusion (because that move was broken to begin with). Buff all of Disable's properties and make it angle in the air, and make Confusion either work properly or change it entirely and you have a decent character. Make Mewtwo faster and have more zoning options, and you have a great character. I wouldn't even mind if they got rid of Shadow Ball for another move that controls space, like a far reaching Psycho Cut attack. It'd probably make it easier to code, too.

Dr. Mario just can't cut it, considering that his native game had only 4 or 6 frames of him throwing a pill and nothing else. Bringing him back and just making him heavier and hit harder is not conducive of good game design, especially when other characters could be added in place of a Luigified clone. If anything, take a little more from Doc and put it on Mario to make Doc more represented. I'm not talking about Doc alts or shooting pills either.

Young Link was a character that was also dissected and injected into another character. Toon Link just plays fluidly with all of Link's old canon techniques. If people want Young Link, fiddle with textures and the RSBE and just put Young Link in your game. There is no need to make another Link, especially when 2.6b Link is gah-Link.
If Young Link was to be remade, he would need more inspiration from Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. I would love to see a Mask based moveset, but that is probably even harder to code than 3 projectiles. That, and rapid D-Tilt to mimic Shield Stab from Majora's Mask would be broken to all hell.

Pichu could actually be implemented far better this go around than in Melee. Throw on Endure and Reversal, and you have a character that has a gimmick similar to vBrawl Lucario, but executed far better. Pichu's self damaging Electric attacks paired with an attack that has 6 frame command super armor and an attack that grows in power with his % is good risk-reward gameplay. This being said, though, Pichu is just another character that can be D and I'd into a different character. Pikachu is in need of some buffs, and Pichu could be a source for them. Also, Pokemon has almost way too many slots because of Jigglypuff already. WE NEED MEWTWO, DAMMIT.

At it's core, Project M is designed to be Melee 2.0; better, but not insanely different. I understand that this is a fantasy thread, but I still enjoy some realism in my theorizing. I'm sorry if my logic is such a downer.
 

Kaye Cruiser

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Mewtwo, Mega Man and Lloyd Irving.

Because all three already have movesets made that could be tweaked to work.
 

Johnknight1

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Mewtwo is obviously the #1 priority to get in the clone engine, unless the Project M crew found a way with wizardry to work around the clone engine or whatever to make him original.

After that, I gotta say I want a high risk/high reward version of Pichu with tons of crazy moves, lots of KO and/or combo potential, but is super easy to KO (due to being so light).

And finally after that, I would say there are quite a few options.

First and foremost, the 3 confirmed Smash Wii U and 3DS newcomers are excellent, and any and all of them would make great characters in Project M.

After that, we got Young Link. Now I know Toon Link is technically Young Link, but with this engine, they could actually make Young Link into the current Toon Link, and make the Toon Link into a newer model of it, much like Wolf in Project M.

As for the last clone from Melee that was cut, Dr. Mario, eh, he's not worth it, since Mario is already pretty much Doc anyways.

Now onto other characters, I really like the idea of a stronger version of Ike, like say the Black Knight. I also would like another dragon character, and Ridley stands out as a character that could be totally a unique take on the smash bros formula. K. Rool could similarly be a fun take on the big hulking Bowser taken in a completely different direction (wonky like Wario, but in his own unique way). Lastly, I gotta say Ninja Raiden or Gray Fox would be great Snake-esk clones.
 

Daftatt

"float like a puffball, sting like a knee"
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Been playing Metroid: Zero Mission. If any series is under-represented it's metroid. Give us Ridley. Could take inspiration from the boss already in the game, also wouldn't need a new model since it's already in the game.
 

HyperrCrow

Emotional Reality
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Not to take shots at you or anyone else Daftatt, I wonder if people sometimes forget that Ridley is a freaking giant about 3x the size of Bowser. Then again people on the internet are bat-**** insane.
 

Trinsic

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 15, 2013
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#1 - Mewtwo.

No explanation needed.

#2 - Pichu

I consider Pichu one of the most fun characters in Melee. Out of all the Melee clones other than Gdorf, Pichu is probably the one that feels the most different from the character he was cloned from. Pichu is fast and super easy to weave around a stage with. He really had a unique feel to him, and that's what I consider most important about the character. If I were to describe Pichu's 'feel' in the context of the current PM roster, I'd say he felt sort of like a hybrid of Sonic and Squirtle, with super short range and some surprisingly powerful attacks. Pichu's best traits can't just be tacked onto Pikachu the way Doc's were given to Mario, because Pikachu and Pichu just feel too fundamentally different from each other. That may sound strange since their movesets are so similar, but anyone who has played a lot as both Pikachu and Pichu will know what I'm talking about.

All in all, Pichu is just plain FUN and I'd love to have him back. And there were plenty of characters lower on the tier list in Melee than Pichu was who are now great in PM, so there's no good reason Pichu can't be made just as viable.

#3 - I can't believe I'm actually saying this, but . . . Geno.

There are still a few people who think he has a chance of being in Smash 4, I guess, but as far as I can tell for most of the Smash community Geno has just become kind of a running joke. And, even though I do like the character, I consider myself in the latter of those two groups. But he would actually make a very fun character if done properly, and P:M is pretty much the only chance he'll ever get at being in a Smash game. And the weird thing is, all the ridiculous hype from his fanboys about the character would kind of bleed over into me if he was actually put in this game. I mean, just the weirdness of thinking "Woah, Geno is actually in a Smash Bros game" after all these years would make me pretty excited.

He's not a character I expect, and I wouldn't ask the PMBR to include him just because of how much work it would take, but this is a wishlist. So if I were to pick a brand new character to put into PM? Yeah, Geno would actually be a really fun choice.

Honorable Mention: Black Shadow from F-Zero. Or Deathborn. Whoever, just someone it makes sense to give Ganon's Falcon-clone moveset to so he can finally get his own proper one.

Another Honorable Mention: Leon Powalski from the Star Wolf crew. Give him Falco's Brawl moveset and fine-tune that. I know there are plenty of people who were disappointed about Falco being given back his clone moveset from Melee (I'm not one of them, I love me some clone Falco) and this would make them happy. It doesn't have to be Leon, but I don't think Peppy or Slippy would really feel right with Falco's Brawl moveset, y'know? You could modify it a bit to fit Krystal, but Krystal is a unique enough character to deserve her own moveset based around that staff from Starfox Adventures, which would be way too much work, but just slapping Falco's Brawl moves on her just wouldn't feel right either. Leon just seems like the best choice to me, and it'd be nice to have another villain on the roster.
 

| Kailex |

I smell like salty coins and milk
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-Heavy weapons guy
Pootis dat be why

-Waluigi
Left out a lot :C

-Mewtwo
Do I really have to say anything?
 

_Liquid_

Smash Cadet
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Realistically, I doubt there will be any more than 3 new characters added to Project M, including Roy. Making a character from scratch is a lot of work, and the PMBR already has 40 other characters to monitor and tweak. I feel like the PMBR will include Mewtwo, since he is highly requested and the only non-clone Melee character to not make into Brawl. I also think the PMBR should have one character all their own. A character that hasn't been playable in any smash and would be a proof of concept of adding an entirely fan made character in the Project M metagame. We'll see how that goes though, because it's obvious the PMBR takes copyright very seriously and would really like to not get a C&D to stop their years of hard work.
 

Ninjamo

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I'm gonna go ahead say the only possibility IMO(or most likely, take it as you will) is Mewtwo because:
1. He's not a clone
2. His moveset already exists
3. They don't want to **** off/compete with Nintendo

Honestly, Mewtwo would have made more sense than Roy, as hyped for Roy as I am right now.
 

ItsRainingGravy

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Realistic anticipation: Mewtwo. Just Mewtwo.

Top Three: Mewtwo, Mega Man, third character being one of the assist trophy characters (namely Issac and/or Saki).

Honestly though, I am just happy to see Roy in. So other than Mewtwo (who would be much harder to code), I am content really.
 

OrangeSodaGuy

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Honestly, I just want Mewtwo.

Provided they get Mewtwo in first, I wouldn't mind seeing Pichu reprise his role as the joke character.
Mewtwo comes first though D:
 

Xenozoa425

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Oh and I forgot to post what I wanted:

1. Mewtwo - Nuff said.

2. Villager - He already has a (badly textured) model in Brawl, but it can be revamped and made better. His moveset would be very goofy and awkward and fun to play like GnW or vBrawl Wario, utilizing all his tools (bug catching net, axe, shovel, slingshot, fishing rod, balloons, presents, and more. But things like his dsmash giving a pitfall effect would probably be avoid. But his Smash Wii U/3DS down B would be too good to pass up. For his weight and falling speed, he'd probably be similar to Ness or Mario/Luigi.

3. Dark Samus - Would make a much more interesting character than Ridley imo. She could play like a Samus and spacie hybrid, utilizing her Phazon for fast, aggressive and highly combo oriented gameplay. I've got so many ideas for DS I even made up my own moveset for her a long time ago and have been making some adjustments over time, getting a lot of ideas from Project M and Smash Wii U/3DS. No damage or frame specifics, just general ideas of what her moves are and how they work.
Special Attacks
Up B: Phazon Shinespark - Dark Samus coils up and flies rapidly in any direction.
Neutral B: Phazon Scattershot - Dark Samus fires up to five small weak Phazon particles that travel very fast, but do not stun the target. However, they will stun if used with a full Phazon Charge.
Side B: Phazon Shield - Dark Samus quickly raises a shield made of pure Phazon, deflecting projectiles.
Down B: Phazon Charge - Dark Samus kneels down to the ground and charges up Phazon energy for 2-3 seconds. When fully charged, her entire body glows with a purple aura. It can be combined with any of her other three Special Attacks for a small boost in power and knockback.

Final Smash
Terminal Corruption - Dark Samus laughs maniacally and overloads with an extremely massive quantity of Phazon. She takes her arm cannon and fires a fast moving, potent, highly concentrated beam of Phazon that hits the enemy for a single blow. The beam itself does relatively small damage, but those who are hit by the beam will become temporarily corrupted with Phazon, greatly draining their strength while slowly dealing small damage for 15 seconds. In addition, Dark Samus' power and knockback are enhanced for those 15 seconds, due to the large amount of residual Phazon still leftover cloaking her body from the initial attack. Phazon Charge cannot be combined with this effect.

Ground Attacks
Neutral A: Dark Samus thrusts her left hand forward and fires a small blast of Phazon.
Dash: Dark Samus dashes forward and bashes with her shoulder.
Up Tilt: Dark Samus slowly swings her arm cannon in an arc, firing small flurries of Phazon.
Forward Tilt: Dark Samus quickly swings her arm cannon to the side, bashing it onto the target.
Down Tilt: Dark Samus kneels down and fires a small burst of Phazon onto the floor.
Up Smash: Dark Samus thrusts her arm cannon straight up, shooting a small flurry of Phazon, and ends with a small blast.
Forward Smash: Dark Samus brings her arm cannon back and thrusts her arm cannon forward, shooting a blast of Phazon.
Down Smash: Dark Samus kneels down and creates a purple ground-based energy wave that surrounds her body, damaging those who touch it.

Aerial Attacks
Neutral Air: Dark Samus does a Phazon-enhanced Screw Attack.
Up Air: Dark Samus points her arm cannon upward and fires a blast of Phazon.
Forward Air: Dark Samus points her arm cannon forward at a 45 degree angle, and fires 4 small blasts of Phazon 90 degrees downward.
Backward Air: Dark Samus bashes the target with a backward left handed fist.
Down Air: Dark Samus brings her arm cannon up and slams it downward. Can meteor smash if timed correctly.

Throws
Grab: Dark Samus grabs the target with her left hand and holds up her arm cannon to their body.
Pummel: Dark Samus releases small amounts of Phazon energy into the target's body through her left hand.
Up Throw: Dark Samus hurls the target upward and savagely fires a blast of Phazon.
Forward Throw: Dark Samus hurls the target forward.
Backward Throw: Dark Samus hurls the target backward.
Down Throw: Dark Samus hurls the target downward, holds their body with her left hand, and savagely fires a blast of Phazon onto them.
 

\Apples

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I once came across a 4chan post from a person claiming they were PMBR and were pissed off about something, so they spilled some spoilers. Said sometime after EVO2013, there would be a pretty big announcement. He claimed the clone engine was practically completed and Roy and Mewtwo were already being developed. Others he confirmed are Lyn, along with some cool details about her moveset. Fire arrow for B, DownB counter, she's really nimble and has an OHC system like Lucario. He also said they were using a female character's voices from Dynasty Warriors for Lyn's voice effects. (Actually, this would make a lot of sense considering it was now also recently made possible to hack custom sounds without Riivolution.)

The leak also claimed Isaac from Golden Sun would be added, and then said that those were the only 4 characters that were for sure in. Other characters that were apparently on the table were Trixie Kong (this character should've been Smash a long time ago. Please, ranged hair grab?), Waluigi, Sammie from Advance Wars (who the ****?) and uhhh there was one more. Oh, Knuckles, and said a few things about ideas being tossed around for his moveset. Glide, dig, wall climbing (I hate him already.)

This may not be true anyways. Though, when I inquired about this rumor to a BR member I know, he said "I wouldn't pay attention to rumors." Which I normally don't anyways but this one felt realistic. But then Roy was just spoiled, so I imagine he was just shaking me off, no hard feelings.

WHO KNOWS. I've been sitting on this for months now, it sounds more credible to me as time goes on but I'm not wasting my time investigating it. Take what you will from it.
 

9bit

BRoomer
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The number of down-B counters in this game already is too damn high. Lyn is awesome, though.
 

TreK

Is "that guy"
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Mii.
'Cus if they pull that one off, they can pull anything off.

But tbh, I'd be happy with just Roy, M2, and Megaman. That should be way more than enough.
We need some female representants though. So my final answer is Tetra, Lyn, Krystal.
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
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Or they could just hold a design contest and make people donate money to submit their designs (and have them counted) then let the winner help design their character under supervision of the PM team, then use the proceeds to host a large prize pool tournament(s).
 

Mr.Pickle

Smash Lord
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Hey hey not a bad idea overswarm.

@ apples - meh, I wouldn't put too much stock into it. Lol I mean 4chan isn't exactly credible.
 

Galaga

Smash 3 Dev Team
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Mewtwo
Mega Man
Shulk

Extras I wouldn't mind seeing:
Issac
Villager
Wii Fit Trainer
Toon Zelda/Tetra
Dixie Kong
Tails
Knuckles
Lloyd Irving
 

foshio

Smash Journeyman
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Call me crazy but I would LOVE avatar Aang to be a character. He could have such an awesome moveset.
Ryu would be good too
and mewtwo obvs.
Lyn as a bonus :D
 

ItalianStallion

Smash Journeyman
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Mewtwo is the only character I truly care about being added from the remaining 4 (Pichu, Dr. Mario, Young Link, Mewtwo). That being said, I could see Pichu being done right, but as others said, just give his strengths to Pikachu and do the whole Mario/Dr. Mario thing (Best of both worlds). Dr. Mario and Young Link do not need to be brought back and would just overcrowd the game (A Dr. Mario costume would be cool though).
As for "fantasy" characters, I really couldn't care too much about any. I feel that with the Brawl cast, Roy, and Mewtwo, the game will be complete enough for me.
 
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