Chicken or the Egg: Some Positive words on OUR Community

[Red Dragon]

Card, I barely even come on SmashBoards anymore. I retired Melee a year ago after many years of competitive play. I decided to return on the hopes of Brawl giving the great times that Melee once gave me. But what I saw is a community of people hating on that "hope". I retired Melee and I don't plan on going back, I came back for Brawl and I'm staying for Brawl. I completely agree with your post and I hope that it makes people realize all of that including one very important and simple fact; Brawl is NOT Melee, and with the same support and dedication that was put into Melee from this community, it can become an even better game, fun-wise and competitively.

-Remi

 

[Catfish_Mike]

Post of the year. That article represents my beliefs on Brawl to a 'T'.

 

[Phyvo]

This thread deserves more than to be buried so quickly.

I think it's a great point, though I myself have reasons to hope that Brawl won't be the shallow piece of trash lots of people say it will be.

Seriously, stop the hate, and let's create something awesome with what we have.

 

[Elliot Gale]

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Card]

With the same support and dedication that was put into Melee from this community, it can become an even better game, fun-wise and competitively.

That one sentence sums up my entire post. *thumbs up*

We need more people reading this! (Should I really be the one doing this... lol)

 

[Darkslash]

The community needs a catalyst for Brawl to become competitive . I hope the E.B games Canada tourney will show that Brawl isn't just a party game. That Brawl can evolve into a real competitive fighting game and not just a "kiddie" game. The community needs to show that

We are not some fan boys that play smash Bros becuase its some Nintendo geekgasm(got geekgasm from youtube lolz). We play smash Bros becuase its a competitive game that can have standards up to other games like Halo 3. We need to show that Nintendo is not a kiddie company. We need to show that we have the skills, the brains and the Reflexes that can shun other gamers.

 

[Xengri]

That opening post just screamed "after school special" to me.
Regardless, it does has a great point.
I've been refraining myself from these boards, at lest until the initial Brawl reactions die down.

I can't say that the community makes the game entirely but, it does have a big impact.
Hopefully more people read this and, take into consideration what it has to say.

 

[Kirby M.D.]

This thread needs a sticky, if only to show people how to make their points in a thread.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Best thread ever! Seriously, this was just the kind of self esteem that I needed.

Thank you.

 

[Jacksor]

Here is where my argument lies.

I said it in my original post, but I'll continue to elaborate.

Think about this question... was it really the "hidden depth" and "advanced techniques" which were responsible for keeping the community thriving and bursting with life during Smash Melee's 7 year era? Do you honestly believe that due to some exploits in pieces of coding, that we continued to play this game for 7 years straight and enjoy it? Could it not have been because of the relationships formed? or the intense hunger for competition? or plain and simply, because of our common love for Smash Bros?

To think that Brawl won't have it's grudge matches, or back-and-forths between pros simply because their may be less advanced techniques is simply ignorant.

The only way for Brawl to become stagnant is if the COMMUNITY lets it get that way!

To start, I believe everything here is directly related. "Hidden depth" is directly related to the game's competitive following, which in turn attracts attention and a growing community which gives the game it's longevity and lends to that "hunger for competition" and to tournaments where those grudges/bonds/friendships are formed. I believe "love for Smash Bros" is an umbrella term for everything I just stated. I don't believe people will, or should, commit to brawl simply because it's the successor to a brilliantly competitive and fun game.

We can’t simply have faith that brawl has what it takes to deliver the competitive experience that melee did and stand behind it 100%. We need to constantly judge and experiment over these next months and we need to find out for ourselves. The mentality that is “we love smash therefore we can make this work” might not work out for the best. Community is important, but I think it’s insane to deny that the game itself (or I guess in this case, the game’s potential for competitive play) is the backbone that it is.

I don't think anyone wants to spend a year tinkering with brawl only to find out that its competitive threshold isn't up to snuff when compared to its predecessor and simply continue playing it as the standard for smash just because it's the latest installment. I don’t know how likely a scenario that is, but given what I’ve seen thus far, it shouldn’t be ruled out. I’m just trying to say that absolute commitment to the game by the community could end up being an oversight. It may make the game a success regardless of competitive merit, as you say, but in that case the community would be omitting critical thinking and true judgment in favor of mindlessly carrying on.

 

[Kizzu-kun]

Most people that arguing about Brawl isn't tournament viable are the ones that didn't played Melee since its beginning (tournament side) and just got the whole game already developed.

I guess that they wanted Brawl to be already granted that will be developed as Melee now.
When in the past nobody really cared about that when we are developing Melee.

We just play the game.

 

[Adius]

I don't think anyone wants to spend a year tinkering with brawl only to find out that its competitive threshold isn't up to snuff when compared to its predecessor and simply continue playing it as the standard for smash just because it's the latest installment.

Nobody knew for sure that melee would turn out to be such a technical game when they were playing around with what you could do for the physics. Also, consider the following:

5 secrets in Bubsy 3d level 2

If someone was willing to deconstruct one of the worst games ever to this extent, I think it goes without saying that someone, likely a lot of people, will be experimenting with Brawl until every secret is revealed.

More than anything, I just think it reflects badly on the community when the supposed "smash gurus" with the colorful names and imposing forum titles are declaring the game to be competitively worthless when it's been out in the States for less than a week. I agree, though, that SSBM is probably not going to stay popular forever and ever like Starcraft or Counterstrike.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Threats like this are the factor that shows the state of community. As long as there are people willing to write something like this and people who agree, there's still hope, but if that's lost... You can't judge things by their top layer only. It's the truly dedicaded part of the community that determines how strong it is. This threat has just broved that Smash community has solid fundation and doesn't go down easily.

And for that, I thank you.

 

[Jacksor]

Nobody knew for sure that melee would turn out to be such a technical game when they were playing around with what you could do for the physics. Also, consider the following:

5 secrets in Bubsy 3d level 2

If someone was willing to deconstruct one of the worst games ever to this extent, I think it goes without saying that someone, likely a lot of people, will be experimenting with Brawl until every secret is revealed.

More than anything, I just think it reflects badly on the community when the supposed "smash gurus" with the colorful names and imposing forum titles are declaring the game to be competitively worthless when it's been out in the States for less than a week. I agree, though, that SSBM is probably not going to stay popular forever and ever like Starcraft or Counterstrike.

"I don't think anyone wants to spend a year tinkering with brawl only to find out that its competitive threshold isn't up to snuff when compared to its predecessor and simply continue playing it as the standard for smash just because it's the latest installment."

The bold part was more the point of that statement. I'm just saying that the game should be held under the microscope in more ways than one before those who run tournies abandon melee for it (in the long run, of course. We need brawl tournaments now to make progress).

To the bubsy argument-- there's no doubt in my mind that smashers will tear brawl apart piece by piece and uncover what there is to find. That's not the issue. The issue is the possibility that it simply won't be enough.

Also, I'm pretty sure the respectable players who have been judgmental with the mechanics of brawl in these early stages are still playing it, trying to get better, trying to uncover, etc. It's the random self proclaimed "melee vets" that simply say "brawl sux melee is teh pwnage LAWLZZSZ" that give people with valid arguments a bad name.

I'm no melee vet. I bought the game on launched, had some fun with it, dropped it for several years, then discovered how deep the game got and its competitive community last summer and it's made the game interesting to me again. Much more interesting than it ever could have been. At this point I don't feel brawl has earned anything yet. It inherited this huge following from melee. I feel that brawl needs to be under the microscope for a while before it can earn anything in terms of competitive validity. I'm pessimistic about it now because of how apparent it is (from where I'm standing) that the game was developed to limit the player in terms of choices. Of course that will change, but the question is to what degree. Time will tell. Perhaps my fears are unfounded. Or perhaps brawl will turn into a game that I simply don't find fun. Either way, I'll have something to play.

 

[Red Dragon]

We'll all just have to wait until Brawl thoroughly unfolds. We only took a glance of a scene through a misty glass, we don't know what's really there yet. Melee didn't truly reveal what a competitive game it was in a few weeks, or a month. I'm focusing on how much fun it's gonna' be to hit up some people and chill while playing Smash, Advanced Techs will be discovered and this game might or might not become competitive. If you want Melee.. Play Melee. If anything most tournaments will have both Melee and Brawl together. To each his own.

 

[orintemple]

About time someone gets it right. I would post things like this my self but my lack of strong motivational writing skills and yellow name would probably have been ignored.

 

[Burning Lava]

Very well said, and thank you for making this thread Mr. Card! I've just been playing the heck out of Brawl, learning it regardless of how certain things annoy me. I do it in hopes of unlocking the Secret Spirit of Brawl! I think I'm starting to taste it already!

One thing though... can we still play Melee too?? (and not be hated)

OK my Smash Brothers, even those of us who are a bit angry with Brawl must band together in Brotherly love and support this game! We'll tear into it like nobody's business!

Again, that's a really cool quote from J. Chensor, thanks for posting.

 

[SynikaL]

If anything most tournaments will have both Melee and Brawl together. To each his own.

That's not true. The reality, is that there simply isn't enough time for that. Brawl wouldn't even be an issue if that were the case.

 

[iankobe]

This thread SPEAKS my mind. That's what I've been trying to say but just couldn't say it out with my own words.

I want to cry cause its soooooooooooooooooooo true...

 

[Witchking_of_Angmar]

That's not true. The reality, is that there simply isn't enough time for that. Brawl wouldn't even be an issue if that were the case.

But Melee tournaments often had side events, like low tier and teams, couldn't Melee replace those side events.

Anyway, this thread makes me sad because it confirms that Melee will die and its corpse will get ***** by Brawl.

*Sobs*

 

[SynikaL]

But Melee tournaments often had side events, like low tier and teams, couldn't Melee replace those side events.

Anyway, this thread makes me sad because it confirms that Melee will die and its corpse will get ***** by Brawl.

*Sobs*

All those side events will be replaced by Brawl.. Since Brawl is where the masses will be, it makes little sense for tournament hosts/organizers to focus much, if at all on Melee.

The only way I see Melee surviving alongside Brawl, is if popular Smash areas commit to holding at least Tri-Weeklies for the game and Smashfest hosts don't use Melee discs as coasters. If the community makes an effort to keep Melee relevant, the game won't die. Simple. There's no reason for Melee to be tossed under the bus or marginalized because of Brawl -- the games are too different.

How many people are willing to actually put forth the effort necessary to mitigate the tide of Brawl's popularity? That's the question.


-Syn

 

[Dark Sonic]

Bump because this does not deserve to be on the third page.

And @Synikal. I agree. If the community actually makes an effort to keep melee alive, then it will easily survive brawl's influence. Unfourtunately, I think the community has largely moved over to brawl by now, and I'm a little sceptical on melee's chances. Brawl is a great game, but so is melee, and I really hoped that they could live along side each other.

 

[Weed]

I support this thread, good job OP

 

[Pubik Vengeance]

Excellent post. Keep it up.

 

[Burning Lava]

Anyway, this thread makes me sad because it confirms that Melee will die and its corpse will get ***** by Brawl.

*Sobs*

NEVERRR!!! Heh, I sorta get that feeling too though. Heh... heh (nervous laughter)

 

[Teczer0]

I think that was easily one of the most uplifting and encouraging posts ever.

I'd like to say that I'm really proud of being a part of the smash community. When I first entered the smash community around I would say May of 2007 that the smash community with the exception of a few people were extremely friendly with me and I have a great time having fun.

The idea that the community makes the game is IMO very true I honestly have a large amount of fun because the people I decide to play are all people I could hang out with.

We are a great community guys, I live in NJ and I have made really good friends from many other states, like MD/VA,NY,PA, etc.

Although right now I am pessimistic about brawl its still a fun game and as long as the community is willing to play it and have fun with the rest of the community I think we can look forward at the future of this game.

Amazing post actually its really inspiring.

 

[Y34HDUD3!!!]

Yes, all of this is true. I support this message.

As for Brawl, I'm currently having a ton of fun with the game, and I will just take the backseat as the more experienced people find new things to do in the game and hopefully expand the game. It will take a lot of time, but I still have many things to do with the game.

 

[ThaDirtyG]

Great post!