Charizard Tactical Discussion

[Charizard92]

Yeah, and I typically do that as a way to take on opponents that won't stay grounded. But I usually flamethrower, then tilt (or throw or use an aerial) off the ledge, then spike (I may often use a couple of smashes and up attacks here and there).

 

[ssbmaster2007]

What attack are you saying has decent knock back at best, Fair? If so, well, I get KOs at percentages not that high using that move, I find that if you use it just right, it has good knock back, though if the timing is a bit off, either there will be less knock back, or the foe will take just a few points of damage without flinching or even getting pushed away.

Oh, and off topic, but I've got to post this.

http://ssbmasterX.fileave.com/al_080527_1656.bin

Download that file, put it onto your SD Card, and go into your Snapshots and look for something you didn't have before downloading that file...Charizard owns Ike! That's what the file is of, a Snapshot of that, that I took during a match that I was Charizard, against Ike.

Sorry if this isn't the best place, but I've been itching to post it, just see the look on Ike's face...priceless.

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

I meant nair's knockback is decent at best. Fair obviously has ridiculous knockback.

 

[ssbmaster2007]

That Brawl Snapshot file, I made it into a JPG just so I could post it on forums, here it is (don't worry, I'll be getting back on topic right away afterwards).

Charizard owns Ike!

Okay, back on topic. Glad you weren't thinking the Fair only has decent knock back, because that move has got major KO potential, and good range, it is one of his best moves, his Dair is obviously another one of his best moves, one of the best meteor smashes in the game (though Ganondorf's Dair is pretty devastating, it may have more knock back to it (but I'll bet that's just because it is packed with strong magic!)).

 

[Charizard92]

From this I can say that the only difference from properly playing Charizard and improperly playing Charizard is that you have to keep the hurt on your opponent almost all the time. Confused? I am simply saying that Charizard has to constantly be on the offense, always attacking and hurting your opponent. All tanks are made this way, but what makes Charizard special is that there is no definite how to do so. Charizard can be grounded for an entire match, or he can be somewhat airborne. He can either smash an opponent into the boundary, or he can shove them off the stage and follow to KO them. So far, no guide has really talked enough about Charizard, maybe I should write one. But first, what the **** is an attachment and can I post links if I can't post attachments?!

 

[Retro Gaming]

Actually, I'd stay on the ground with Charizard as much as possible. He doesn't do well attacking grounded opponents with aerials. His aerials are terrific if they're already in the air, though. =D

 

[Charizard92]

OK, there is one thing you shouldn't do (edited it so he isn't almost always airborne but only somewhat airborne a few minutes after this post was posted). However, Charizard can either Play as a typical tank (smash them off and wait to see if they recover, then smash again) or play (to a degree) as a gimper (get someone off the stage, follow them into the air, and prevent them from returning). Can Charizard still use an air game on someone standing on a platform though (like the highest platform on battlefield for example)to get them off and into Charizard comfy fighting territory (the ground [or closest thing to it]/air )? Besides, I wasn't really trying to infer a air vs ground game (like Squirtle) but more of a get them off the stage then use an air game game.

 

[Retro Gaming]

Yeah, as long as they're already in the air or above you already, Charizard should feel totally comfortable. Charizard acts amazingly well as a gimper. I've really found his edgeguarding (Off-stage) is probably the best of the the three. Characters are extremely vulnerable off-stage.

 

[Charizard92]

Thanks for your response. See, Charizard can be used in more ways than one.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

yeah, and he has also something that mos tanks dont have, a good variety of fast moves that have good range and priority, appart from ko potential!! :D, what else do you want?? Also, the only way charizard cant be played is as a camper (lol), also, don understimate fsmash, its not hat slow, and has a veryyy sweet knockback, a crazy prioirty and good range, the only smash i dont use too much is earthquake, i feel like it is kinda slow, and with a range that could be better, correct me if im worng, and give advice of how to use his dsmash effectively please

 

[Charizard92]

Right, I wasn't really saying camper, more of a super tank with aerial and ground potential.

 

[Dizzynecro]

Use downsmash to punish rolls thats about it.

 

[Charizard92]

So, Charizard's best KO moves are the tilts, up and down smash, fair, bair, dair, nair, fly, and rock smash right (forward smash isn't that practical is it?)?

 

[Dizzynecro]

Down throw

 

[chubas]

I need to stop training on CPU's. Fthrow+spike is so easy in some of them I start believing is a viable combo. Only works on careless players, but I'm becoming addict to doing it to the CPUs.
Don't.

 

[Charizard92]

Cpus are my only option, and the Dthrow works only at high percentages, so isn't as reliable.

 

[JiangWei23]

I always felt that Fsmash is a viable option, if only because (1) It's SO satisfying to land it and (2) Great range and incredible horizontal knockback. I think there's some super armor in some frames of the move, because I definitely recall slamming Charizard's head through my opponents' attacks, but I'm not too sure on this.

Most of the time I just C-stick tap it to land a blow. Charging it on the other hand...well, there's been some FUN times with that little step forward Charizard takes with the F-smash to punish laggy moves...XD

 

[infernovia]

Usmash is pretty reliable too as an approach and kill as people sometimes forget or underestimate the 2nd hit.

I really WANT to like Fsmash, but its just so... hard to land it. I will try to incorporate stutter step and maybe that will give it enough range.

 

[Charizard92]

Same, I used to land it more often though.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

For me, Fsmash is a really good kill move (maybe the one i most use) because its relatively fast(compare to bowsers) and has a LOT of ko potential, you just have to get used to it , o charge it and when people think they can get you form a "laggy" charge and attack you let it go, normally you will outprioritize(is taht a word??) them, so they will with the time learn to run away when you do it, but thanks to its large range you will still catch them if you let go the charge soon

 

[gantrain05]

i like playing charizard, and i find his tilts are great spacers and at high enuf percent even ko moves, rock smash is probably one of his best B moves, i don't really care too much for his Fsmash, it IS a good kill move, but if you miss you will almost always be punished, Usmash is good tho, its fairly quick, and people often may dodge the first hit but get hit by the 2nd, i also use the glide alot, it outprioritizes alot of moves, and is fairly powerful when u land the hit.

 

[Charizard92]

I like your support. See, Charizard is a very versatile character, all of his tilts can and will morph into KO moves with damage (along with his Dthrow). And on the Fsmash, a good tactic to make it connect (with cpus at least) is to knock them off the stage and before they land (or grab the edge), wham! Remember, they cannot be below the ledge for this to work.

 

[PkTrainerCris]

Hey i have some questions, and i think this is the best thread to post them, so here i go:
I dont have a wii, me and my friends go to a place where they rent us the wiis(i know, we are all poor people XD), the only problem is that they don have gamecube controlers, just wiimotes and wiimote+nunchuck combo, its not that hard to get used to it, we have had some very good matches, but i still dont know how to do some things:
1. How do you glide with charizard using the wiimote???? I have done it sometimes trying to do a nair(weird, i know)
2. Is it posible to make shellshifting and hidroplaning with the wiimote(this one is less important, i just wanna glide again)

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

I do not know about the Wiimote, so I'll let someone else answer that.

People should really use nair a lot more than they do. It is relatively fast, lasts the entire shorthop, can be easily auto-canceled, is a HUGE hitbox and the low knockback at low %s sets up easy follow-ups (jabs, grabs, tilts). It can get people of the stage and set them up for major gimpage with fair or another nair. It hits people on platforms above, even if they roll or whatever, so it's good for platform pressure. The great thing about this attack is mostly just the hitbox.

Also, does anyone know how to consistently sweetspot this move?

 

[Retro Gaming]

Also, does anyone know how to consistently sweetspot this move?

I checked it out a while ago and here's how you can get it often:

If Charizard's back is to the opponent, then the bend of his tail has to be overlapping the character you want to sweetspot. Then, just do an AC Short Hop Nair.

And, I agree. the Nair is not used as often as it should. I like to use it as a false attack, where I AC and land just out of jab range from my opponent. They'll move forward and get jabbed or shield and grabbed. I mean, this only works so many times, but still. Its also good if you use it as a retreat or to repel opponents froma stationary spot. I wouldn't aproach with it, but if you jump through their shield the last hit will still hit them.

I usually link Utilt and Nair from low percents, too.

 

[Charizard92]

Interesting. The Wiimote alone is a poor choice when using a controller scheme. It is just a big mess, so it is much better to stick the Nunchuck into it to improve your game. To fly, either hold the jump button after an air jump or press forwards then backwards rapidly. I sometimes use nair, but not often since the other aerials are better at hitting someone.

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

What exactly do you mean by "better at hitting someone"? Most attacks are useful for at least one or two things, and what I did was name a few situations in which Charizard's nair is the more useful options. You're talking as if all attacks serve the same exact purpose, and you choose them based on some ambiguous criteria such as how good they are at "hitting someone".

Also, it seems you're the only one in this thread just dismissing everyone else's arguments for tactics and whatnot, when it seems you would benefit especially from some of the advice put forth in this thread.

 

[infernovia]

Charizard92, you don't have to give your opinion on each and every thing. PopeOfChilliTown has some effective strategies that people can learn from, if you don't think its effective, then please consider the notion that you might not have evolved the gameplay as much as PoCT has.

Oh and remember when we were talking about dashdance?

http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=4298859&postcount=57

Video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ioUt7qjfh6Y

Edit: For good measure:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2X9oqJEXYMM

 

[Pichu Sensei]

There are too many underused moves in charizards arsenal. I personally prefer Nair over Fair because the nair attack lasts longer and has what? 320 degree hitbox? Fair is a risky move, half of the time, you only give 3% damage, don't hit, and you're wide open for a counter.
Flamethrower, this move is used a little bit as it is, most people prefer rock smash to rack up damage, but this can be an effective ledge guard, and is also very beneficial in most situations.
And Dtilt, very quick, very lethal. When connected, it sends the opponent flying sideways, setting them up for an easy meteor.

 

[Charizard92]

Yeah, on the wiimote, it wasn't really my option, more the option of the video game magazine I subscribe to (game informer, say, where is the repetition in the SSE now, I don't see it, why isn't Brawl a 10 out of 10 [it got a 9.5, namely for wifi problems]), and I do see some moves as having more than one purpose. Just that Fair's range is actually quite far (nair requires contact, fair can reach forwards a bit, but not as well), so, I am right and wrong. I, however, love flamethrower (possibly since I am a pyromaniac [that means I like fire])and I use it as much as possible. I actually stared this thread naming the edge guarding with flamethrower (frying pan to fire, because your opponent either can stay in the flame or do something else and fall to their doom, again, does not work against characters with multiple jumps or super armor)

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

The thing is that fair has a deceiving hitbox. It makes you think you're safer than you really are. The actual knockback dealing part of fair's hitbox offers very little range benefit over nair.

To simplify, fair is a great move, perhaps better overall than nair. However, its uses are much more specific, and it is not a general use move. You use it to kill or get people off the stage. What I'm rambling on about with nair is that, unlike fair, is much more dependable than fair in many situations; it's a better defensive move, is safer if auto-canceled, has a larger hitbox, and works wonders as a platform pressure tool.

 

[chubas]

The phantom hit of Fair still annoys me... That's the reason why I start to stop using it so often.
I must confess, I fail at applying pressure with Nair.

 

[Pichu Sensei]

I agree with pope that Fair is useful in alot of situations, like pushing ur opponent from off the edge to get a side screen ko. Nair is more of a defensive move for me, like rocksmash. When I want to hit someone off the edge, I prefer using D tilt and Bair.

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

Bair is great. It's so fast, with such good range. It's actually one of the better approach options Charizard has, to SH these. It's also one of his most dependable kill moves.

 

[Chaotic Yoshi]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172824
Second jump renewal

http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=4105081&postcount=648
Charizards relevance

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWMyvVaAWZU
Video of it

 

[Charizard92]

what is the point of an infinite jump that is almost hard to land.

 

[Pichu Sensei]

what is the point of an infinite jump that is almost hard to land.

Learn how to do it and find a use.

 

[PopeOfChiliTown]

Well if you get it down to where you can do it consistently, it can help apply pressure from below, since uair has nice reach and priority.

Does anyone know if it works with other aerials? Fair would be nice, it would eliminate some of the unsafeness in using it.

 

[Charizard92]

They will fly too far soon though.

 

[Pichu Sensei]

I really need to learn this tech. If you can do it with other ariels as well, it would make Nair pure ****.