Charizard Custom Moves

[Darthrai]

So does 1321 sound like the best custom setup? Rock Hurl's increased range came in handy for me a few times, but I'll take your word for it.

 

[Kayeka]

Fire Fang is also surprisingly good. It comes out fast, hits multiple times, eats shields and deals quite a good bit of damage.

Not quite sure if it's worth losing all that range, but it should help in certain match-up.

 

[YeahVeryeah]

...You can Dragon Rush offscreen, Jump Once, Dragon Rush back, use Up B/ Fly

I'm not saying its an instant SD, but if you go do a grounded blitz/rush from ledge, you're going to have little room for error.

Unless Dragon Rush has significantly less ending lag than a flare blitz that doesn't connect, in which case I'm stupid.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

Rising Cyclone + Dragon Rush is really good. RC can make up for the lack of kill power of DR very easily, and is still a good recovery when coupled with DR's horizontal distance.

I was able to kill Mario off the top blast zone of FD starting at 75% with RC with the side hitboxes, and that is with NO rage (Tested with Heart Containers to get rid of rage). Seriously, this thing is really powerful. However, there were times when I didn't sweet spot it, and even more interesting, if I hit Mario right on top of him (So, Zard's lower torso) I got a much stronger hit that started to kill at 64%, same conditions, no rage. This move kills VERY early.

EDIT: After doing some more testing, it seems his head and the tip of his wings is the sourspot. If you hit there then you'll be less effective than if you were using normal Fly. Good thing here is that its easy to avoid sourspotting with the move.

 

[Shog]

I'm not saying its an instant SD, but if you go do a grounded blitz/rush from ledge, you're going to have little room for error.

Unless Dragon Rush has significantly less ending lag than a flare blitz that doesn't connect, in which case I'm stupid.

Yes, it has much much less ending lag otherwise my post doesn't make sense. The last part of your sentence fits.

 

[YeahVeryeah]

Yes, it has much much less ending lag otherwise my post doesn't make sense. The last part of your sentence fits.

Classy.

As if dragon rush wasnt so much better already.

I still want to really see the numbers on fire fang. It could be worth using over flame thrower.

 

[Red Wolf]

rising cyclone is good but can't tell where exactly is the sweet spot. It can KO enemies fairly early around 70-90 range but it seems random when the spot happens. Anyone know where your suppose to hit them at in order to get the final hit?

Dragon rush is pure amazing! A must for charizard!

Fire Fang is interesting but flamethrower can be used for preference

Original rock smash feels like its the only one to go to...ok as early damage and super armor but other than that its not exactly a kill move :/

 

[Davregis]

Are we sure Rising Cyclone is superior to Fly? The distance lost significantly hamper's Charizard's ability to off-screen KO, after all, and Fly can still KO a little ways into the air.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

rising cyclone is good but can't tell where exactly is the sweet spot. It can KO enemies fairly early around 70-90 range but it seems random when the spot happens. Anyone know where your suppose to hit them at in order to get the final hit?

Dragon rush is pure amazing! A must for charizard!

Fire Fang is interesting but flamethrower can be used for preference

Original rock smash feels like its the only one to go to...ok as early damage and super armor but other than that its not exactly a kill move :/

If you start the move with the opponent directly in front/behind you, then you'll likely sweet spot.

However, if you jump quickly and gain some height on them (think Rest) then you'll get an even stronger sweetspot. I was getting 75% as the firs kill percentage on FD against Mario with no rage for the side sweet spot and 64% for the lower sweet spot.

 

[Red Wolf]

If you start the move with the opponent directly in front/behind you, then you'll likely sweet spot.

However, if you jump quickly and gain some height on them (think Rest) then you'll get an even stronger sweetspot. I was getting 75% as the firs kill percentage on FD against Mario with no rage for the side sweet spot and 64% for the lower sweet spot.

ah i c! Ive been trying to test it out on cpu and the results very...I should try to land em on human players. Hmmm I havent landed the lower sweet spot...but I kinda wanna test it out now XD

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I'll be posting my thoughts on these soon.

 

[Kayeka]

So I heard Dragon Rush is really good. I'd love to try it out for myself, but I haven't unlocked it yet. Do I have to do a specific challenge to unlock it, or can I just grind the trophy Rush until I get it randomly dropped?

 

[YeahVeryeah]

Home cancel high level Classic mode. Trophy rush gives shiiiiit.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Trophy Rush gave me like all of ZSS's customs in a few goes...and then I just started getting random ones for every other character. I was so salty lol.

 

[YeahVeryeah]

Am I just doing trophy rush wrong? I do easy campy **** and dont die and get like 3 wrenches tops.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I just SH Nair with Zard all day. Usually get about 4-5 pieces but its luck based to an extent. Classic Mode is more efficient from what I've seen.

 

[YeahVeryeah]

Well I already have everything for Zard, got that all down day 1. Doesn't seem effective for lucario or greninja though.

When you gonna give us your custom moves opinions? I want to hear you agree that they're a game changer already.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I was waiting until I unlocked all of them and was just going to post a giant synopsis of them. And I actually just got all of them so I'm gonna go test some of these now and I might have a write up for you all tomorrow.

 

[Remzi]

Not that I think this combo should typically be in your moveset, but if you have headbutt + blastburn, one read or heavy punish = stock at like 20%. Not even kidding.

I'll go over everything later, but I wanna talk neutral specials for now. Firefang is good, but all it is IMO is just another good option in situations where Charizard already thrives. Flamethrower is invaluable in that it has so many unique utilities, I don't think we get the same thing out of firefang, where we already have decent options in most cases where we would use it. The fire cannon move simply isn't rewarding enough in the places where it is useful for me to want to give up flamethrower or fire fang. In most cases, I'm staying flamethrower as of now.

 

[YeahVeryeah]

So how is dragon rush supposed to be punished? I'm finding it to be mach tornado levels of good and I don't think I've ever been punished when playing against my friends (my only friends who are better than me are skipping the 3ds version but the people I'm playing with are competent)

 

[Shog]

So how is dragon rush supposed to be punished? I'm finding it to be mach tornado levels of good and I don't think I've ever been punished when playing against my friends

It's a secret to everybody, but I experimented with this move a lot and a hitbox above charizard going in usually hits charizard(for example sexkick from Dr Mario on top of Charizard). Since I battled CPU however, this might be hard for RL People.

And hopefully more people will understand how great the Dragon Rush is.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Not that I think this combo should typically be in your moveset, but if you have headbutt + blastburn, one read or heavy punish = stock at like 20%. Not even kidding.

I'll go over everything later, but I wanna talk neutral specials for now. Firefang is good, but all it is IMO is just another good option in situations where Charizard already thrives. Flamethrower is invaluable in that it has so many unique utilities, I don't think we get the same thing out of firefang, where we already have decent options in most cases where we would use it. The fire cannon move simply isn't rewarding enough in the places where it is useful for me to want to give up flamethrower or fire fang. In most cases, I'm staying flamethrower as of now.

Fire Fang has decent utility I agree. And you can land this from Jab setups as well and it has decent kill power. Its solid as a close range tool and might be worth it when Flamethrower isn't doing anything for you. But Flamethrower is almost always the best option. Its a good GTFO tool that can be adjusted by angle (making it much more versatile than Rock Smash or Fly) and its great for that edgeguard pressure. That's where it really shines. Maybe if Fireball Cannon had more knockback it would be useful but is really just an inferior Flamethrower.

Also on the discussion of Dragon Rush:

Whoever said it was a universal replacement for Flare Blitz is wrong. Its a great move don't get me wrong, but ideally you end up using both of these for different scenarios. Flare Blitz is so good because of the armor attached to it. You can't go through things with Dragon Rush because its a multi-hit move. You can be stopped by weak projectiles pretty easily. Great move when your opponent has to approach but I'd rather use Flare Blitz when I'm in a matchup where I know approaching is going to be a pain and I want that one "get out of jail free card" approach.

Dragon Rush certainly has its uses though. Love that you can cross up shields with it, and I love that you essentially get to carry people off stage with it making it great for setting up edgeguards even early. I like Dragon Rush and Rock Hurl because they help set up positional advantage (something we really need as our neutral game is "meh").

 

[Deleted Member]

So are Blast Burn and Sinking Skull useless (the former pretty much requires Fly High)? It would be nice to have BB be useful somewhere, even though the bad range and crashing pretty much make it inferior to FB and DR. Maybe even somewhere in the basic "For Fun" format? And does Sinking Skull function just like DK's Headbutt (I believe that can one shot shields, unless that was a bug).

 

[Shog]

Also on the discussion of Dragon Rush:

Whoever said it was a universal replacement for Flare Blitz is wrong. Its a great move don't get me wrong, but ideally you end up using both of these for different scenarios. Flare Blitz is so good because of the armor attached to it. You can't go through things with Dragon Rush because its a multi-hit move. You can be stopped by weak projectiles pretty easily. Great move when your opponent has to approach but I'd rather use Flare Blitz when I'm in a matchup where I know approaching is going to be a pain and I want that one "get out of jail free card" approach.

Dragon Rush certainly has its uses though. Love that you can cross up shields with it, and I love that you essentially get to carry people off stage with it making it great for setting up edgeguards even early. I like Dragon Rush and Rock Hurl because they help set up positional advantage (something we really need as our neutral game is "meh").

You said it yourself, crossing up shields is huge and especially the lower endling lag allows of easier use of the Rising Fly move.

I also like normal Flare Blitz, don't get me wrong. I like to run into Link Arrows etc. but than I realized, that Charizard has his Rock Smash Super Armor, and I only think Dragon Rush > Flare Blitz.

And about the Blast Burn. It has some interesting properities. But I am to bad to abuse it really.

 

[Thinkaman]

There might be some matchups where Charizard wants to go all-in on trades, and would take Flare Blitz--it is a good move after all. But Dragon Rush is a great move, and should be the default choice. (Especially since Rock Smash already exists.)

 

[Ryusuta]

Default Flare Blitz has always just been too iffy for me to even consider. While it is definitely potent, it's just too easy for me to miss an up/down b input and find myself hurled out with no chance to recover. Dragon Rush and Blast Burn have both caught my interest. Dragon Rush obviously seems to most versatile of the whole set and doesn't harm Charizard, while Blasty Burn has more damage and knockback while removing the suicide factor from the equation.

I definitely like the Flame Burst neutral B most, because it gives Charizard a way to force his opponent to approach rather than vice versa, which I consider a big advantage. That said, I've seen people liking Fire Fang, so maybe I'll give it another shot and see how it feels.

Rock Smash... The grounding one just seems dumb. The upward-shooting one, on the other hand, is a bit more interesting to me. Overall, though, I think the default is the best.

I'm still torn on the up B. While I really like Fly High, I admit having another finisher/out of shield option is kind of a big deal. I think I should play around with them some more.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Dragon Rush is literally the stupidest move.

**** that move and this character. LITERALLY UNPUNISHABLE by anyone Bowser running speed and lower, and is difficult to beat out because massive hitboxes in my experience.

I would like some insight into how to beat this MOVE (the rest of Charizard's kit is terrible)

*rosalina side b's you*

 

[Thinkaman]

Dragon Rush is literally the stupidest move.

**** that move and this character. LITERALLY UNPUNISHABLE by anyone Bowser running speed and lower, and is difficult to beat out because massive hitboxes in my experience.

I would like some insight into how to beat this MOVE (the rest of Charizard's kit is terrible)

*rosalina side b's you*

Dragon Rush and lag, BFFs 4 life!

Anyway, you can jump out of the way and bair it, or run away (ahead of him) and punish the endlag if he is onstage.

Counters work too.

And of course, you can escalate the level of hax: Palutena dash attack or bair!

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Dragon Rush and lag, BFFs 4 life!

Anyway, you can jump out of the way and bair it, or run away (ahead of him) and punish the endlag if he is onstage.

Counters work too.

And of course, you can escalate the level of hax: Palutena dash attack or bair!

Dragon Rush and high input lag makes it literally (like actually) impossible to punish. Luckily Wi-Fi isnt standard.

Jumping and bair doesn't work since he moves too fast, and wtf do you do if he decides to position himself to go offstage with it? He can get back no matter what custom up B he uses.

Ugh, this **** is the reason I use Rosalina.

I CAN BE A ***** TOO GUYS.

 

[Ryusuta]

Dragon Rush and high input lag makes it literally (like actually) impossible to punish. Luckily Wi-Fi isnt standard.

Jumping and bair doesn't work since he moves too fast, and wtf do you do if he decides to position himself to go offstage with it? He can get back no matter what custom up B he uses.

Please... poor Charizard gives so much and asks so little. Let him have this one. ;.;

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Well if it had some sort of counterplay it would be fine, but at the moment it seems very low risk high reward, as in, you have the chance to deal 18% and oh of you're **** and miss IT DOESNT MATTER, because you take 3% (long range projectile) punishment because no one can catch up and if they do you just roll behind them or spot dodge or do whatever.