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Character Discussion Thread

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shinhed-echi

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That's such a minute part of what the Djinn do, though. And adding boosted effects, stances, certainly is nothing like how you fight as Isaac. It would be a horrible translation to me(no offense). It would NOT feel like plaing as Isaac to me. Nothing says Isaac still would not have stat changes.

@ JaidynReiman JaidynReiman posted a great idea a few pages back.
Sure, it was something easily overlooked. But sometimes, having the right stat changes was the difference between victory and defeat.

Regardless, it's a great gimmick to have in SSB4. I would've preferred for it to be Isaac, but since Shulk seems to be more in-your-face about it, I guess it's alright.

I would've loved a "party system" for Isaac as well, but unfortunately, "transformations" are out. -_-

As long as he gets in, with Djinni, Psyenergy, and very little sword use, all's well.
 

JaidynReiman

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Sure, it was something easily overlooked. But sometimes, having the right stat changes was the difference between victory and defeat.

Regardless, it's a great gimmick to have in SSB4. I would've preferred for it to be Isaac, but since Shulk seems to be more in-your-face about it, I guess it's alright.

I would've loved a "party system" for Isaac as well, but unfortunately, "transformations" are out. -_-

As long as he gets in, with Djinni, Psyenergy, and very little sword use, all's well.
Honestly, I just realized that Xerneas is an unlockable Pokeball, even though we've known about Xerneas ever since the Smash Bros. Direct and perhaps even earlier.

Yeah, in all honesty, I'm back on an Isaac high hype train again. If Isaac is still an AT, he should've been one of the first announced. His potential is massive, and he doesn't even necessarily need a "gimmick" at all, but Isaac simply has near endless potential. You can take one major thing about Golden Sun and based a moveset entirely around it, and Isaac can literally do any of it (depending on his Djinn setup).


I'm still keeping Isaac in my roster predictions.
 

Burruni

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Hello again! Much like with Xenoblade Chronicles and my explanation of the little bits of Shulk's trailer, I'll go over the whole thing about "Why Chorus Kids?" or "Why Marshal?"and occasionally "Why not Karate Joe?" for an argument between the (commonly accepted) two most likely Rhythm Heaven characters. In a game series where it is all collections and remixes of 2-4 minutes worth of mini games with a musical theme, it's really hard to say why ANYONE should be chosen, but I'll try to explain going by game to game through the series, and then the big characters at the end.

Rhythm Heaven GBA (Rhythm Tengoku)

The first game in the series was Japan-only. Made by the same people who made the Warioware games, Nintendo SPD, it was a quirky hit with an arcade version made with the help of SEGA. Setting the tone with a fairly simple input system (a direction and A or B at the WORST) but with precise timing with the music of the game going alongside the actual action. There are three big games (and the remix of two of them) that are key to the series going onward.

1) Karate Joe
one if it not the ONLY mini game to actually be in all 3 installments of the series.
2) Samurai Slice
returned as an Endless Game in the DS sequel, and while the art style was HEAVILY overhauled in Rhythm Heaven: Fever, it is clear that this game was iconic and memorable enough in the minds of the designers to bring back later on.

3) Night Walk
had the first "iteration" of a simplistic pure white with black eyes/mouth character in the series. Possibly the single biggest and most nostalgic part of RH:GBA because of it coming back as the Credits mini-game for RH:Fever (when Marshal is controlled).
An extra note, is that this game is where Sneaky Spirits appeared first (before being brought back as a bonus game in Fever).

Rhythm Heaven DS
was the second game in the installment and the first to be released internationally. As you can see, this is the first time a character is seen on the front cover, being one of the Chorus Men/Glee Club in both the Japanese and English versions (Europe had the same box art was NA, but with the name "Rhythm Paradise.") Excluding ONE minigame, all gameplay controls outside menus and pausing was all done with the Stylus by tapping, holding, sliding, and/or flicking. Once again, there's a handful of truly important mini-games out of the 50 in this version.

1)
Built to Scale and Built to Scale 2 were a game whose basic theme was moved to a new version of it in Fever. No real characters, you're part of a music-timed machine which shoots pegs into two square widgets as they roll into line, firing off when they sync up on a certain beat.

2)
Glee Club aka Chorus Men. The game that was most often seen in the advertisements of the game. In controls, you hold down the stylus to "Shut yer trap!" and release when to scream out a note to be a parrot of the actions used by the far left member, with the time gap of the middle member's waiting to parrot the same notes. This was another game that got a 2 version, but was a pallet swap and much more hectic.

3)
Fillbots, which had a spiritual successor in Fever, was a game that you held down the stylus for a few beats to inject the chassis of robots with... oil(?) to make them work but making sure not to overfill. The Fever equivalent was done instead by screwing heads down into place, but in both cases you're controlling just an arm or nozzle of a factory.

4)
Munchy Monk. This picture of the Fever version of it. This is very crucial because the game involves a character who has the iconic blushing of Marshal, but the Bowtie of a member of the Glee Club. This character is a bit ambiguous if it is meant to be either.... or both.

Rhythm Heaven Fever
While the English version of the cover art is a bit more lively in the character span, it is important on who is shared in both: The "Rhythm League." In similarities to the Chorus Men, this trio (with Marshal looking almost identical to a member of the old trio) were part of the introduction to the game, the Rhythm Tester to help tutorialize you on how the game works, and most importantly all made appearances in the return of Night Walk. I'm stressing again how important Night Walk is as a Rhythm Heaven mini-game because after you beat the 7th set of levels, the actual menu theme shifts into a move rave-y instrumental version of the song which proves how important the designers thought it was. Honestly, there are only 2 games that are incredibly iconic for the fans and/or advertisement added into this game that isn't a version of a past game.

1)
Pose for the fans! RAGH! Yes, if anyone from the western world will recognize ANYTHING from Rhythm Heaven, it's most likely the duo of Interviewer and Wrestler in the game Ringside and its Round 2 version.

2)
BA BA BUM BUM! 2 3 4! Friggin' Air Rally. What most consider when the game starts stepping up the difficulty and is most remembered for the banter from the cat Backington to the dog Forthington while they do EXTREME mid-air badminton.

Extra:

So that's it for the games, now, I'm gonna just write brief bits on the big candidates.

Karate Joe/Slicing Samurai: While iconic characters in all three games, they honestly seem best set for an Assist Trophy (except for Takumaru being already present in the latter's case), or as part of the moveset for the representative.

Chorus Men: The trio made popular by the advertisement of the DS game to help reach it out to audiences when it was somewhat risky trying to have a music oriented game in which you are not actively "playing" the song or dancing to it (look at Space Channel 5) alongside the Gematsu leak. While they could embody the harmonious aspect of the game, them being practically absent in Fever outside of the look-alike Marshal and whoever is in Munchy Monk ~ Fever does relatively state that the makers have moved on. I wouldn't be particularly against them as the choice, but they don't seem as likely.

Marshal: The MC for Fever more than Cam and Ribbon at his sides, he is the character who is on the box and is able to open and close the game off. With the potential of using Mr. Game & Watch's theme to a vast number of mini-games that can have parts isolated as part of a moveset, he has always been my prefered choice for a Rhythm Heaven character to be playable.
 

JaidynReiman

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Has it been discussed that this roster has 8 characters per row while the leaked one had 9? Could the final roster have 10 characters per row or would it be too squished?
I actually miscounted before and thought it was 7 wide, but I can definitely see 10 fitting just fine. In fact, that's probably the way they would expand the roster if there are more.
 

Spazzy_D

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Honestly, I just realized that Xerneas is an unlockable Pokeball, even though we've known about Xerneas ever since the Smash Bros. Direct and perhaps even earlier.

Yeah, in all honesty, I'm back on an Isaac high hype train again. If Isaac is still an AT, he should've been one of the first announced. His potential is massive, and he doesn't even necessarily need a "gimmick" at all, but Isaac simply has near endless potential. You can take one major thing about Golden Sun and based a moveset entirely around it, and Isaac can literally do any of it (depending on his Djinn setup).


I'm still keeping Isaac in my roster predictions.
I think Sakurai is kinda banking on gimmicks this go around, and I'm sure if Isaac makes it in he will have some sort of unique mechanic. He doesn't need one, mind you, but I am sure he will have one.

I mean, if you look at Shulk, he actually doesn't have any of his more iconic offensive Monado arts. There is no cyclone, no buster (which was an attack, not a buff), no eater, and no purge. Sakurai instead decided to make him a buff character, which IS something the Monado can do, but not something most would have centered his game play around. Hell, he isn't even the main buff character in Xenoblade (that would be Melia.)

Isaac has the potential to have (several) neat gimmicks... so I'm sure, like with Robin, and Little Mac, and Shulk, he will get one.
 

EricTheGamerman

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I've never been so glad in my life to be wrong than with Shulk's moveset. That blurry leaked footage did him absolutely no justice in terms of move-set, but seeing him action via Sakurai's trailer made him about a million times more appealing. It just goes to show that even if we get leaked confirmations, nothing is ever going to compare to what Sakurai can show us, and that what he shows off still matters to almost the same degree of hype and excitement (Or at least it did for me when I saw the Japanese Direct start with the Smash logo). Now I can confidently say that Shulk is one of the characters I'm most looking forward to trying once the game releases!
 

Deathcarter

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I'm a little bit sad.

Looking at Shulk's gameplay gimmick about changing stats, has me kind of depressed.
This was the EXACT same system I had envisioned Isaac having.
Ironically, I never saw those two competing in anything other than looks and weapon. It was completely news to me to know that Shulk could change his stats in mid battle as well.
:(

The thing is, I don't have anything against Shulk. I don't know much about him, and I'd love to try his game out.
But his gameplay gimmick is EXTREMELY AWESOME to me, someone who adored the character-switch mechanic in past SSB games.
But I feel bad it went to the "wrong character".

This is like Ness stealing Mike Jones' spot as THE Nintendo yoyo guy all over again (despite Mike doing it first).
I have next to zero hope for Mike getting in to take his rightful place as yoyo master. But ISAAC? He's a lot more popular, and I think he's by far already earned his place in SSB. The least he deserves is to keep his own game gimmick!

/rant.
Honestly, Robin is far more guilty of threatening Issac's spot than Shulk. I don't know why Issac would need or be given a weird stat changing gimmick when just using both Magic and Swordplay carves out a huge niche on its own, a niche Issac was virtually uncontested in before the newest Fire Emblem came out and Robin became a thing.
 

Sabrewulf238

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I just noticed on the official smash bros website that Dr. Kawashima is an assist trophy. He hangs out at the side of the shooting numbers at players. If the numbers collide and equal ten, an explosion occurs.

With all the excitement yesterday we must have missed it.
 

ihskeyp

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I just noticed on the official smash bros website that Dr. Kawashima is an assist trophy. He hangs out at the side of the shooting numbers at players. If the numbers collide and equal ten, an explosion occurs.

With all the excitement yesterday we must have missed it.
People were talking about it in the disconfirmed characters thread. Not much of a surprise, really.
 

CrusherMania1592

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I just noticed on the official smash bros website that Dr. Kawashima is an assist trophy. He hangs out at the side of the shooting numbers at players. If the numbers collide and equal ten, an explosion occurs.

With all the excitement yesterday we must have missed it.
I honestly expected it just so I could throw it in @ BluePikmin11 BluePikmin11 face.
 

BluePikmin11

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I find this hard to believe considering the fact that the Chorus Men appeared in two minigames in the entire series, both of which are in only one game. They're hardly "iconic" to the series at all. The only reason anyone pays any attention to them is because of Gematsu leak's faked second half.
They are probably the most iconic characters out there, there's plenty of Youtube parodies based on their one minigame alone.
 
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Zzuxon

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All right.
I'm starting to think that the Chorus Kids and Ice Climbers are going to be Wii U exclusive, because the 3ds's technical limitation rendered them unusable on that system. Most would agree that if the ICs have indeed been cut from the 3ds version, it is because of technical limitations. Additionally, the M'f'ing leaker didn't mention the chorus Kids as being one of the unseen characters from his pics. It would make sense for both characters to be cut for the same reason. However, If the dev team has already made 2 perfectly good characters that work great on the Wii U version, I doubt they would be so stupid as to let the 3ds version old the Wii U back.
 

ihskeyp

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All right.
I'm starting to think that the Chorus Kids and Ice Climbers are going to be Wii U exclusive, because the 3ds's technical limitation rendered them unusable on that system. Most would agree that if the ICs have indeed been cut from the 3ds version, it is because of technical limitations. Additionally, the M'f'ing leaker didn't mention the chorus Kids as being one of the unseen characters from his pics. It would make sense for both characters to be cut for the same reason. However, If the dev team has already made 2 perfectly good characters that work great on the Wii U version, I doubt they would be so stupid as to let the 3ds version old the Wii U back.
Technically Sakurai already said both games will have the same rosters, no console exclusives. And we don't know if they were rendered unusable, or if they would've just taken too much development time. I'd say our best bet at seeing them is they take the time after release to program them, and they are dlc characters.
 

Zzuxon

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Technically Sakurai already said both games will have the same rosters, no console exclusives. And we don't know if they were rendered unusable, or if they would've just taken too much development time. I'd say our best bet at seeing them is they take the time after release to program them, and they are dlc characters.
That was a statement he made very early in development. I'm sure the team made a very earnest attempt to get the 2 characters in, but just couldn't make it work. Under the scenario, keeping it to where there are no console exclusives would be denying people 2 basically finished characters on the Wii U version for nothing.
 

The Light Music Club

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I'm quite sure Sakurai also said that the Wii U version would come out first, and that changed right? I really think that if the Polar Bear is making a return, there is no reason why to cut the Ice Climbers from having no representation as a playable character at all. Sure the could go with "Ice Climber" and have Nana OR Popo, but I still think they will be in the game in some way as playable.
 

JaidynReiman

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I thought the guy who leaked the information said the Chorus Men were only DLC.
The DLC remark is FAKE. Ignore it. There is no confirmed DLC whatsoever. That said, I think DLC can pretty much be guaranteed to happen. But its not been confirmed at all.


As for Chorus Men, they probably weren't ever planned. People keep assuming they're in because of Gematsu, but Chrom already killed that. I don't know why people keep bringing it up again and again. IC's were probably cut in development, that I'll agree with.


I'm quite sure Sakurai also said that the Wii U version would come out first, and that changed right? I really think that if the Polar Bear is making a return, there is no reason why to cut the Ice Climbers from having no representation as a playable character at all. Sure the could go with "Ice Climber" and have Nana OR Popo, but I still think they will be in the game in some way as playable.
I don't think that was ever once stated.
 
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Jason the Yoshi

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I'm quite sure Sakurai also said that the Wii U version would come out first, and that changed right? I really think that if the Polar Bear is making a return, there is no reason why to cut the Ice Climbers from having no representation as a playable character at all. Sure the could go with "Ice Climber" and have Nana OR Popo, but I still think they will be in the game in some way as playable.
How? They wouldn't demote them to unlockable characters that easy, and the leak didn't show off the characters the guy hadn't unlocked.
 

The Light Music Club

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You have a source for that?
Considering he hasn't been revealed yet, and the 3DS version is apparently on Eshop with what is most likely the starting roster, I just assumed. I mean, look at Brawl, the last 3 characters were Jiggly, Toon Link, and Wolf, and you couldn't get them until you finished Subspace. Who's not to say, they continue to work on Ice Climbers to where they get them to work right, and are the last ones done, or they can't get them to work right so they put Solo Climber in at the last moment. Either way that would probably make them unlockable.
 

Jason the Yoshi

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Considering he hasn't been revealed yet, and the 3DS version is apparently on Eshop with what is most likely the starting roster, I just assumed. I mean, look at Brawl, the last 3 characters were Jiggly, Toon Link, and Wolf, and you couldn't get them until you finished Subspace. Who's not to say, they continue to work on Ice Climbers to where they get them to work right, and are the last ones done, or they can't get them to work right so they put Solo Climber in at the last moment. Either way that would probably make them unlockable.
I dunno, we got Sonic, Luigi, Toon Link, and Rosalina pretty quick, all of them are probably gonna be unlockable. Worse that we got Yoshi, Ike, Meta Knight, and Zero Suit Samus pretty late, all of them I doubt will ever be unlockable, especially Yoshi.
 

The Light Music Club

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I dunno, we got Sonic, Luigi, Toon Link, and Rosalina pretty quick, all of them are probably gonna be unlockable. Worse that we got Yoshi, Ike, Meta Knight, and Zero Suit Samus pretty late, all of them I doubt will ever be unlockable, especially Yoshi.
I don't know. Rosalina is on the cover so she's a starter. I think everyone on the website is a starter except for Lucina, and maybe the 3rd parties. In Brawl only two newcomers were hidden and the bulk were vets, I think the same thing happens here
 
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Masonomace

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To be another voice, rather user, to post of the current topic(s), I do remember something about Sakurai saying both SSB4 & 5 will be released together around the same time. Then the dates got pushed farther back being where they are today. I have no source for it but I could of sworn that Sakurai claimed so, & now they're released at least 3+ months apart. 3 months is a while & with problems / issues with characters that were in development maybe now finished, may have pushed the dates farther back. This is something I could see happen with the characters all put aside for low-priority DLC.

Also if that E-shop 3DS roster is really the starting CSS, then boo. . .Boo at so many starters. Too cheezy easy if you ask me.
 
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jweb22

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My Assist Trophy Prediction now:
Warning, you might hate it:
Logically speaking this is probably 80% correct on what we will ultimately get. I'll be mad as Issac doesn't appear to be playable AGAIN but whatever I got Robin so I'll call it a win.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if Dixie is playable as a Diddy clone.
 

Zwzchow

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My Assist Trophy Prediction now:
Warning, you might hate it:
I like you rebel :D

My opinion on Ice Climbers/Chorus kids

They were probably planned at first (Polar Bear/Sneaky Spirits)
However they might be cut due to the unfortunate technical limitations
(The Forbidden Teams) <not meaning that the forbidden 7 were cut due to tech limitations

However they might come in as DLC due to the team figuring someway to apply them
 

Maxilian

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My latest prediction roster. Might post DLC later.
I really like these roster, but IMO expecting Impa and Ridley is waaaayy too much, i don't think the roster will be that good, so i will stay with only 1, also as much as i want Black Shadow i don't think we will get him (we have a bigger chance on getting Wolf, and in the end, Wolf is most likely getting cut)
 

False Sense

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I really like these roster, but IMO expecting Impa and Ridley is waaaayy too much, i don't think the roster will be that good, so i will stay with only 1, also as much as i want Black Shadow i don't think we will get him (we have a bigger chance on getting Wolf, and in the end, Wolf is most likely getting cut)
I don't think Impa and Ridley are out of the question. Just because their inclusion would, in your opinion, make the roster better doesn't make them less likely. Both are still viable, potential candidates.
 

Gold_Jacobson

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My latest prediction roster. Might post DLC later.

My favorite roster posted on here post the leak, that is possible. It would be so amazing if this happened. It could be possible. I will start or join a Sakurai Religion if this happens.

That was a statement he made very early in development. I'm sure the team made a very earnest attempt to get the 2 characters in, but just couldn't make it work. Under the scenario, keeping it to where there are no console exclusives would be denying people 2 basically finished characters on the Wii U version for nothing.
I know what you are saying. But really, I believe that they wouldn't go up and beyond for the two characters and go back on their statement of "Identical rosters."

I believe if they couldn't get the AI characters to work on 3DS, they would just be cut, stick to what they said about identical characters, and focus their time and effort on something else.

Going back on their statement affects their marketing, trust issues, and a whole bunch of can of worms.
 

pupNapoleon

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Hey guys- the Ice Climbers hood and Eggplant are available in the Mii shop as hats.

Honestly, I just realized that Xerneas is an unlockable Pokeball, even though we've known about Xerneas ever since the Smash Bros. Direct and perhaps even earlier.

Yeah, in all honesty, I'm back on an Isaac high hype train again. If Isaac is still an AT, he should've been one of the first announced. His potential is massive, and he doesn't even necessarily need a "gimmick" at all, but Isaac simply has near endless potential. You can take one major thing about Golden Sun and based a moveset entirely around it, and Isaac can literally do any of it (depending on his Djinn setup).


I'm still keeping Isaac in my roster predictions.
I agree.
After reading the article on Sakurai's interview in regard to appealing to all gamers,
http://smashboards.com/threads/most-underwhelming-reveal-hinting-at-marketing-ploy.365729/
I have come to the conclusion that his way of balancing this game may in fact be to have completely new characters that are not function so differently from one another, that they have their own mechanics rather than across the board mechanics that we saw in Melee. I made a post about it in the thread for that article, on this forum.

Long story short, It was one of the few things recently that changed my stance on the roster a good deal. I don't believe we will be getting as much series-we-have boost. I think that we may get new characters from current series, but those will be DLC. If Wolf or others are cut, it is because each character in this game, essentially, went through a re-imagining process. They may be back, but must add something great. I think a lot of the DLC will in fact, be just that- the characters that were cut which we did not get before, but with greater detail, in true HD, High Definition of thought, reimagined. It's been said a lot, but this is hitting me in a whole new way. The only way Sakurai can balance this game with mechanics, is to make each character completely different entirely. He is trying to do this with the old ones, and certainly with the new ones...each character will have his or her own battle mechanics, his own ways to be free on stage, rather than Wavedashing or such being a thing. I hope for both, but...

My point is that, I think most newcomers will be from new series. DLC may be from old series, but they may be more clone-ish, because many characters from the same franchise should have a little in common. That make sense to me now more than ever before. I have new hope for Isaac, for Lip, for Ray MK, for Chibi Robo. He wants new Mechanics, and will be searching far and wide.
 
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ZeldaMaster

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Guys, with the unknown renders leak, has it really been confirmed by credible sources that the character select screen shown isn't the final roster? Or do we just not know yet?
 

ihskeyp

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Guys, with the unknown renders leak, has it really been confirmed by credible sources that the character select screen shown isn't the final roster? Or do we just not know yet?
All-star mode was locked in the images, which is a mode you unlock once you have unlocked all playable characters. Plus the leaker said their may be additional characters that weren't in the leak. And the CSS in the leak has more room, so it's not out if the question.
 

M23-X0

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My Assist Trophy Prediction now:
Warning, you might hate it:
I do hope that Vaati is an AT ! Even if Zelda didn't have the best representation character wise, it will have the best representation assist trophy wise !
 
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