Character customization

[200X!!]

I want to know about how everyone feels about customized characters in SSB4 tournaments. Please explain and defend your answer! If you feel another answer should be included, let me know and I'll add it. :D

 

[Game7a1]

A problem I see with banning custom moves is certain characters aren't allowed as they depend on different moves (i.e. Palutena), and restricting them to their default moves may not be ideal.. I can understand Miis since they are the definition of variable in the game (custom movesets and properties based of of size) and that would be a hassle to deal with (potential MK-like Mii could be created).
Custom moves should be allowed, but anything that alters the stats of a character should be banned.

 

[pickle962]

Custom movesets: YES

Gear: Hell to the no

Miis: Up to the TO, but most likely a firm NO as well

 

[TurnUp]

This is definitely something that's going to need some major testing through multiple tournaments, a non-customization tournament as well as a customizations on tournament.

We don't know if the custom movesets also include mandatory gear since the option looks like it's just customizations on or off

 

[Superturkey]

I'll be really disappointed if custom moves are banned. They have so much potential to add a whole other layer of depth to the metagame.

 

[TurnUp]

I'll be really disappointed if custom moves are banned. They have so much potential to add a whole other layer of depth to the metagame.

Yeah unfortunately Sakurai does go on to say that the custom moves are not available online (With Anyone mode) due to balance but that might be because nobody can know each other's customizations online without taking a lot of time, so maybe they'll be fine for tourneys.

 

[infomon]

The poll options are totally bonkers. Miis are fine, but "stat boost" customizations are not.

Special move customizations: Totally fine unless they're impractical for tournaments. We'll find out when the game is released.

Gear/stat customizations (e.g. "+50 defense -10 defense"): Nope.

Palutena: Totally fine. She's just like any character except her selection of custom specials is more diverse.

Miis: Totally fine. They are 3 base fighters (brawler, gunner, swordfighter). They have customizable specials just like any other character. Then they also have some height/weight variability. This is all fine -- unless, again, it's somehow too impractical for players to configure/download/select their characters in tournaments.

These topics have been discussed in depth in several other threads.

 

[Yodude57]

Dang it! I. I meant to choose the middle option! Just is ignore the vote on the bottom and count that as on toward the middle choose cause I accidentally hit the bottom one.

 

[TLMSheikant]

I meant to vote for the middle option :/. I think gear/stats aren't fine, moveset customization is fine unless we find out broken stuff or it impedes tournament progress and I honestly dont know yet on mii fighter but am leaning towards banned.

 

[WhiteKnight]

i think that mii fighter should be allowed as long as it is given a "guest face" so that inappropriate miis are not used. stat customization, meh maybe? move customization should be a yes

 

[200X!!]

The poll options are totally bonkers. Miis are fine, but "stat boost" customizations are not.

Special move customizations: Totally fine unless they're impractical for tournaments. We'll find out when the game is released.

Gear/stat customizations (e.g. "+50 defense -10 defense"): Nope.

Palutena: Totally fine. She's just like any character except her selection of custom specials is more diverse.

Miis: Totally fine. They are 3 base fighters (brawler, gunner, swordfighter). They have customizable specials just like any other character. Then they also have some height/weight variability. This is all fine -- unless, again, it's somehow too impractical for players to configure/download/select their characters in tournaments.

These topics have been discussed in depth in several other threads.

The reason I set up the options the way I did is because changing a Mii in Mii Maker is effectively the same as boosting its stats, allowing players to min-max their fighter to their liking. Meanwhile, your opponent will be at a disadvantage because they won't know ahead of time what stats the Mii Fighter has. I worded the 3rd option the way I did because it essentially expresses a desire to ban variable stats of any kind. That said, if you'd like, then I could add an option worded the same but saying Mii Fighters are okay despite their variable stats so long as they aren't wearing gear.

Would you link me to the other topics please? I searched around, admittedly not too thoroughly, and found nothing about it.

This is definitely something that's going to need some major testing through multiple tournaments, a non-customization tournament as well as a customizations on tournament.
View attachment 18708
We don't know if the custom movesets also include mandatory gear since the option looks like it's just customizations on or off

Hmm. That could be troublesome. I suppose we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Sol_Vent]

The middle option is the closest to my thoughts on this. But ideally there would be a way to enforce a restriction on Mii Fighter customization that allows them to be used.

Those are just my preliminary thoughts, though. Obviously we'll need to see how it plays out when the game drops.

 

[Mikkelmann]

I think it should be aloud but only for the creative freedom that super smash bros gives us.

 

[Kalierdarke]

As the option isn't up there

Custom Moves- Fine, as you can show your opponent what moves you are picking before a match so there is no "Surprise" factor of not knowing what your opponent picked.

if custom moves work as I think, they might very well be tied to your player name(won't know for sure until the game comes out), in which case people just need to set them up before the tournament starts(wii U version of course)

Equipment- No. This just has so many possibilities for unbalancing characters. +speed - defense on bowser, for instance, would potentially be VERY unbalanced.


Mi Fighters- Allowed, but a standard for them could be enforced("stock" Miis on the Wii U for people to choose from for instance to keep random heights from being a big deal.)

 

[Shuckle89]

I think customization of movesets is fine. The way it looks now, that is. I also think miis should be allowed, along with palutina.

I agree with Kalierdarke: Which moves are being used should be shown.

The reason why I think this, exactly, is because customization adds a whole new aspect. Instead of having all those tiers, in which the lower ones are pretty much screwed because they have very hard time beating the higher ones, customization allows players to also pick lower tiers. Possibly, with the customization, it can be on equal footing.

Also, people now are more likely to pick chars as well they didn't like much before. I, myself, am not a big fan of mario. However, with a slow moving ball of fire, I sure want to try him.

However, I do think people should be on the look out for 'over powered' customizations. When it comes to characters, I don't think chars should be banned too soon. But, when it customization, I think every move that makes a char too strong, should be banned. But, as long as move just slightly changes gameplay so they are used more often, it's in my opinion a definite yes.



About the gear/stat thing: I don't think this should be allowed. Whereas customization of movesets only change a particular move, stat changes change a char in it's entirely. I don't think stat changes would make a char OP (keep in mind, it increases one stat but decreases another, so you could go for a fast bowser, but that would be at the cost of damage, so the result is somewhat the same), but, the changes would make it very hard to work with. You can't really counter a char if he can customize it's stat so that the very reason why you counter him is being changed. That way it would be a battle of 'customization', by constantly changing stats so you'd still be countering. At least, that's what I think. Making it very different from moveset customization, because if it's either a ball of fire or a ball of electricity... well, ya know.



edit: hold on, stats can be picked when making the MII's? I didn't know that. In that case, I completely agree with kalierdarke. There should be just some 'guest mii's' that can be used here with average stats. If that isn't possible, then I also think they should be banned.

 

[Kalierdarke]

However, I do think people should be on the look out for 'over powered' customizations. When it comes to characters, I don't think chars should be banned too soon. But, when it customization, I think every move that makes a char too strong, should be banned. But, as long as move just slightly changes gameplay so they are used more often, it's in my opinion a definite yes.


edit: hold on, stats can be picked when making the MII's? I didn't know that. In that case, I completely agree with kalierdarke. There should be just some 'guest mii's' that can be used here with average stats. If that isn't possible, then I also think they should be banned.

Yeah, TOs as a whole can just keep an eye out for overpowered combos and either ban certain moves from being used together, or ban one of the moves itself. Lets take brawl for example, and say it had customizations. Meta Knight's cape being able to be used infinitely to be precise. If brawl had customizations, they could have just banned the move itself and made people pick something else, assuming they all worked differently.


As to the Miis, one of the PotD a while back confirmed, depending on Mii height, their stats change. Smaller Mii are faster, larger Mii hit harder.

 

[infomon]

But since the height is a visible property of the Mii, there's no surprise, so that seems fine for tournament-play IMO.

 

[Kalierdarke]

On the same logic, you can show your opponent what equipment you have for stat alteration, doesn't mean it won't have a gameplay impact. Plus having everyone in a tournament set up their own custom Miis would take longer than deciding on their customizations before a tournament begins.

Easier just to have 6 "stock" miis. Small, medium, large, M&F of each.

 

[Sqa$]

I would like to see custom characters make it in the world of competitive smash, though I feel like it will be a rough ride. I think they are part of the game's new idea and that it helps blur tier lists. Of course, then there will be tiers of the movesets, but holy god, that would be a nightmare to read. But I think we should try them.

Personally what I had thought about when thinking of custom movesets was that the start of the set is the two people picking their characters and a moveset for them. After the first match, the loser picks the stage, then the winner chooses one of three options: stay, switch character, or switch moveset. If they switch character, they have to use the default moveset. Then the loser does the same, as usual. It takes away the infinite time added between matches with characters switching and whatnot. I think that making the people choose whether they switch to default something, or change their moveset based on the other's playstyle would make the most sense.

Of course, there are probably better ways to do things, but I was just brainstorming.

 

[DeadlyLampshade]

Depends really, I'll be disappointed in competitive smash if they ban custom move sets though without giving them a try, as I feel it would add character variation to a game that currently lacks it.

Gear customizations? No place in Tournaments, casual play only, full stop. ampersand. comma. exclamation mark. period.

 

[DtJ Composer]

I don't like any of these poll options.

I definitely don't think the stat boosts should be legal for tournament (at least not without being in its own bracket? Smash Run tournaments??)

The problem with custom characters is time. Every set-up won't have your customization so before each game you'll have to take the time to set up your own custom move-set. We already can see that the game is leaning towards brawl-length games.
If Customization of moves is about the same length as making a name and controls then it's possible, but I suspect (for non-mii fighters at least) that it won't be quite that easy.
Miis will be tough because the entire character design is custom, and it would be lame to disallow the character because of it, since the Mii movesets are fairly unique. Customizing movesets should theoretically be easier for Miis, as each pre-set mii could hopefully keep its own custom moveset (so, unlike the characters where you would likely have to reset their movesets everytime, you could just keep playing the same Mii).

Both of these options seem more plausible on the 3ds version, where you'll already have all your customizations on your own 3ds and can set it up ahead of time. I definitely don't have any issues with Mii Fighters in the 3ds version for that very reason.
Custom move-sets could be interesting on 3ds but I'm just worried it takes too long to do on every WiiU tourney set-up.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

I think that speculating about it at the current point in time, without knowing how the exact function of customization works, is pretty pointless but here are my current opinions.

I really, really, really like the idea of moveset customization, and can't really see it taking a long time at all if it's implemented within the game properly. With the concept of moveset customization being so critical to Mii Fighter, and to a lesser extent Palutena, it's unlikely that the process won't be extremely simple.

Stat boosts are up in the air for me, it really depends on how they work. I don't mind the concept of equipping items to characters but unfortunately many of those may not be unlocked on various setups, which makes it complicated for tournaments (and therefore probably useless). I guess that also applies to custom moves, but there will be significantly less custom moves than there will be items you can equip.

However, I don't think it's fair to really decide these kinds of things before the game drops. But that's just my two cents.

 

[Shuckle89]

I don't like any of these poll options.

I definitely don't think the stat boosts should be legal for tournament (at least not without being in its own bracket? Smash Run tournaments??)

The problem with custom characters is time. Every set-up won't have your customization so before each game you'll have to take the time to set up your own custom move-set. We already can see that the game is leaning towards brawl-length games.
If Customization of moves is about the same length as making a name and controls then it's possible, but I suspect (for non-mii fighters at least) that it won't be quite that easy.
Miis will be tough because the entire character design is custom, and it would be lame to disallow the character because of it, since the Mii movesets are fairly unique. Customizing movesets should theoretically be easier for Miis, as each pre-set mii could hopefully keep its own custom moveset (so, unlike the characters where you would likely have to reset their movesets everytime, you could just keep playing the same Mii).

Both of these options seem more plausible on the 3ds version, where you'll already have all your customizations on your own 3ds and can set it up ahead of time. I definitely don't have any issues with Mii Fighters in the 3ds version for that very reason.
Custom move-sets could be interesting on 3ds but I'm just worried it takes too long to do on every WiiU tourney set-up.

You have a fair point there, but couldn't those amiibo figures be used for that? I've read somewhere they can be used to store settings and such things as names, configuraton and move customization. If that's the case, it shouldn't take long at all. Even less than the good ol' brawl configuration. I don't know, but that may solve that.

 

[DtJ Composer]

Maybe!

From what I understood, the Amiibo fighters were exclusively computers that learned and leveled as they played you/opponents. I don't think they can even be human controlled (though I don't exactly remember so don't quote me on that)

 

[Shuckle89]

Maybe!

From what I understood, the Amiibo fighters were exclusively computers that learned and leveled as they played you/opponents. I don't think they can even be human controlled (though I don't exactly remember so don't quote me on that)

What you said is indeed correct (can't be human controlled), but may not be exclusively.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiibo

Amiibo (stylized as amiibo) is a near field communication (NFC) based platform, developed by Nintendo. This optional enhancement platform allows compatible figurines to link with supported video games, allowing two-way transfer of data into and out of a supported game, and possibly between supported platforms. This is accomplished on Nintendo's Wii U console through the Wii U GamePad, and through an NFC adapter on the Nintendo 3DS.[1] Amiibo enables game data to be swapped directly between those two specific platforms for the first time, and does so in a fashion reminiscent of the Nintendo GameCube – Game Boy Advance link cable of the early 2000s.

It doesn't say it directly, but it does say it allows two-way transfer of data and swaps game data.

It may very well also work for names/custom movesets, besides being an AI fighter

 

[Bedoop]

My 2 Nickels;
Wii U? Maybe. But only Custom Moves, no gear. Unlocking all the Custom Moves for every character isn't the easiest task, but someone could do it.

3DS? Yes. But only Custom Moves, no gear. Since this is a "Bring-your-own-controller" type scenario, we could just bring our own 2/3DS/XL's with our Custom Moves for our mains without all the hassle of unlocking it all on a Wii U for every single tournament.

As for Mii Fighters, yes, allow them. But add these restrictions;
>Miis must be the Default Height/Weight that Mii Maker gives them.
>No Custom Gear, Appearence and Stat wise. This is just for simplicity.
>Custom Moves are allowed.
>3DS Users can use their own Mii Fighters, as long as the rules above are applied.

 

[Kalierdarke]

Well they did confirm you can transfer the moves/equipment you have unlocked from your 3DS to the Wii U, that's about the only thing we have full confirmation on in that regard, so unlocking all the customizations isn't that big of a deal, the TO will just need access to someone with a 3DS copy of the game to go around too the Wii Us.

 

[DtJ XeroXen]

Well they did confirm you can transfer the moves/equipment you have unlocked from your 3DS to the Wii U, that's about the only thing we have full confirmation on in that regard, so unlocking all the customizations isn't that big of a deal, the TO will just need access to someone with a 3DS copy of the game to go around too the Wii Us.

With that in mind I see no reason that equipment and custom moves shouldn't be legal unless it's time consuming to set up or works in an arbitrarily complicated way. Unlocking it all is no longer an issue.

 

[dguy6789]

As said above it's better to wait a bit for game release and test at tournaments for a while to see if the customizations are reasonable for a tournament. It's better to experiment and possibly create a deeper competitive game than to on kneejerk reaction ban any new features a new game has. USF4 and UMVC3 are examples of highly successful competitive fighting games that have a degree of customization.

 

[Demon-oni]

I truly feel that only the swapping movesets should be allowed for a few reasons

With the move sets there are only a total of 12 different moves, 3 for each special, for a character. So long as one variation isn't outright broken, it wouldn't be a problem to just learn how to play as or against about 24 variations of a character. Granted it sounds daunting balance wise, but hopefully no move will just outright shadow the other 2 variations of the move. If you allowed gear/stats, then it becomes a lot less about the tools the character has and more about the tools you have as a player. Plus, skewing stats so characters have insane jump heights or making it so moves now have super armor is ridiculous. Stats and gear sounds more or less like simpler versions of stickers, and we didn't really allow that at all in Brawl, so why now with Smash 4?

Granted, I believe they should only be allowed on the following conditions.

A) Switching movesets is simple, and only takes about as long as it does to switch controls for your tag.

B) It is possible to have "master data", as in having an SD card or something similar that has all unlocked content (and moveset variations) allowing the data to be shared and readily distributed at a tournament setting.

C) The variation used isn't outright overpowered. Granted it will take time to learn the ins and outs of all moves, but in time we'll see which moves will flourish and if it makes the character stronger than the rest of the cast by a good margin or it just simply makes the character better for certain situations (think Brawl MK tornado vs Marth Dancing Blades. Ones good, but the other is simply overpowered).

 

[BigShad]

I feel as though my thoughts on this have already been said by someone else, but...

Custom moves should honestly be allowed, in my opinion, as long as they don't take horribly long to set up. Another problem I could see is a specific custom move having to be banned due to being overpowered. I'm not very sure on whether players should or shouldn't be able to see your foe's custom moves, so I guess that's an opinion I'll develop over time. Nonetheless, this creates more depth to Smash 4, and more things to adapt to, which is always welcome and promotes more skill.

Custom gear, however, if something I feel more biased against. Like one of the earlier posters, imagine a Bowser with more speed and just less defense. Bowssr is shockingly powerful and, only judging by looking at the early builds of Smash 4, seems to be faster as well. If I'm correct, there are also certain attributes to said gear as well that might make things more unbalanced. However, I would love it if it did somehow ended up balanced all the way (and didn't take too long to equip) to again, promote a higher skill ceiling.

Overall, I hope whatever bans are placed later on, as far as balance goes, aren't biased at all.

 

[Shuckle89]

I feel as though my thoughts on this have already been said by someone else, but...

Custom moves should honestly be allowed, in my opinion, as long as they don't take horribly long to set up. Another problem I could see is a specific custom move having to be banned due to being overpowered. I'm not very sure on whether players should or shouldn't be able to see your foe's custom moves, so I guess that's an opinion I'll develop over time. Nonetheless, this creates more depth to Smash 4, and more things to adapt to, which is always welcome and promotes more skill.

Custom gear, however, if something I feel more biased against. Like one of the earlier posters, imagine a Bowser with more speed and just less defense. Bowssr is shockingly powerful and, only judging by looking at the early builds of Smash 4, seems to be faster as well. If I'm correct, there are also certain attributes to said gear as well that might make things more unbalanced. However, I would love it if it did somehow ended up balanced all the way (and didn't take too long to equip) to again, promote a higher skill ceiling.

Overall, I hope whatever bans are placed later on, as far as balance goes, aren't biased at all.

it would be nice to see that too. But, I don't have high hopes I've asked some good smashers in my country and most of them were like: yeah, let's do custom moves as a side event. Sure, it's better than nothing, but, it would really piss me off if they'd discard something entirely without trying. Well, you might say the same about items, but the difference is that custom moves don't leave something to chance (which is why different movesets should be shown) and don't create chaos but depth.

 

[Kalierdarke]

it would be nice to see that too. But, I don't have high hopes I've asked some good smashers in my country and most of them were like: yeah, let's do custom moves as a side event. Sure, it's better than nothing, but, it would really piss me off if they'd discard something entirely without trying. Well, you might say the same about items, but the difference is that custom moves don't leave something to chance (which is why different movesets should be shown) and don't create chaos but depth.

Well, a limited item list(as seen in the ISP rule set) wouldn't be completely considered "Leaving something to chance". It proviides players extra options when they have the time to safely go grab an item. Just because a super scope spawned next to player B doesn't mean it's the best time for player B to grab it. Usually the item will sit there for a bit until the optimal time for either player to get it and make use of it.


But that's a discussion for another thread, I agree stuff should not be outright dropped without testing. It's a new engine, there's new mechanics, everything should be tested before a firm "no" is given to anything.

Who knows, maybe custom moves/items/certain stages that world normally be banned in other games could actually prevent certain problems, and improve the competitive scene.

 

[200X!!]

Okay... I've written down the votes so far now that it's reached a healthy sample size of 34. You didn't know you were dealing with a statistician, did you!

I agree that everything should be tested before being dismissed. However, as someone who is hosting a release weekend tournament, I wanted to gauge the general opinion of the community-at-large now, since people will not have time to test all of the features before then.

That having been said, with everyone's feedback, I think I've got a good idea of how to fine-tune my rules regarding customization now.

When I get home later, I'll be replacing the poll with a new one that allows you to select multiple options. Hopefully then everyone will be able to pick answers that are more reflective of their true feelings. 'Till then! <3

EDIT: Okay, apparently I cannot edit the poll. Here are the categories I wanted though.

- None at all
- Gear only
- Moves only
- All of it
- No Mii Fighters
- Stock Mii Fighters designed by TO only
- Mii Fighters made by anyone

Discuss! :D

 

[Shuckle89]

Okay... I've written down the votes so far now that it's reached a healthy sample size of 34. You didn't know you were dealing with a statistician, did you!

I agree that everything should be tested before being dismissed. However, as someone who is hosting a release weekend tournament, I wanted to gauge the general opinion of the community-at-large now, since people will not have time to test all of the features before then.

That having been said, with everyone's feedback, I think I've got a good idea of how to fine-tune my rules regarding customization now.

When I get home later, I'll be replacing the poll with a new one that allows you to select multiple options. Hopefully then everyone will be able to pick answers that are more reflective of their true feelings. 'Till then! <3

EDIT: Okay, apparently I cannot edit the poll. Here are the categories I wanted though.

- None at all
- Gear only
- Moves only
- All of it
- No Mii Fighters
- Stock Mii Fighters designed by TO only
- Mii Fighters made by anyone

Discuss! :D

It's nice to deal with a statistician, but I honestly don't think there is a need for it. I've read through the comments here and pretty much everyone here agrees that custom moves should be tried first. Not turn it off without properly testing. So, I think it's a definite that.

@ Kalierdarke you're right that's for another thread so I won't really go into that, but the reason I'm pro this and against items is that items (besides the chaos, but that can be solved by only turning on items that aren't too much) make the differences among characters smaller. The chars are very unique and by using items, everyone has acces to them, so you see less of the chars themselves. Custom moves, however, create only depth for the characters, since they do not have 4 special moves, but 12. That, and the picking up thing. If it's 'A' again it's very annoying when you want to jab someone but instead pick up a weapon.

That's my take on that. If you want to discuss that further you can pm me though ;P


But, I think we all agree here pretty much. Thats nice.

 

[200X!!]

It's nice to deal with a statistician, but I honestly don't think there is a need for it. I've read through the comments here and pretty much everyone here agrees that custom moves should be tried first. Not turn it off without properly testing. So, I think it's a definite that.

@ Kalierdarke you're right that's for another thread so I won't really go into that, but the reason I'm pro this and against items is that items (besides the chaos, but that can be solved by only turning on items that aren't too much) make the differences among characters smaller. The chars are very unique and by using items, everyone has acces to them, so you see less of the chars themselves. Custom moves, however, create only depth for the characters, since they do not have 4 special moves, but 12. That, and the picking up thing. If it's 'A' again it's very annoying when you want to jab someone but instead pick up a weapon.

That's my take on that. If you want to discuss that further you can pm me though ;P


But, I think we all agree here pretty much. Thats nice.

I'm glad that was the consensus, because that was what I was planning for my tournament anyway. I just wanted to make sure the greater community felt that custom movesets were acceptable so that my tournament would be viewed as legitimate.

The one thing I HAVE altered about my tournament is that I think I will set some rules for Mii Fighters so that they can be used. Basically, I'm thinking that if someone is going to use a Mii Fighter in my tournament, then its height and weight (independently) need to be set to minimum, maximum, or left at default to limit the otherwise huge potential variation. I'm hoping that Mii Fighters can be easily shared so that I could just make a few for people to use.

 

[infomon]

Basically, I'm thinking that if someone is going to use a Mii Fighter in my tournament, then its height and weight (independently) need to be set to minimum, maximum, or left at default to limit the otherwise huge potential variation.

Why is "huge potential variation" something that we need to limit? What is the problem?

 

[200X!!]

I feel that the potential variation is a problem because it gives the Mii Fighter user an unfair advantage. The Mii Fighter player will be going into the fight with match up knowledge that the opponent cannot access because they will not have that exact Mii. It may be possible to get a general idea of how your opponent's Mii Fighter will play by looking at it, but with every other character it's possible for both players to know their stats precisely. I think that's an important distinction.

It's one of the rules of the debate, and I feel like it applies to SSB too. In academic debate, evidence is inadmissible if your opponent could not possibly access it. Just as I could not submit a personal unpublished interview as evidence in debate, I feel that I should also not be able to fight using a personally created Mii. That way, the competition is fair because everyone has access to the same amount of advance knowledge and preparation.

 

[infomon]

Suppose there is only one Mii attribute that affects gameplay: height. Taller => stronger,slower. Since this attribute is visible, there is no hidden information from the opponent. If instead there are two properties: height and weight, say, where weight is invisible: then maybe that's more of a problem. But it might be easy for the opponent to review the stats (say at the customization screen) to know the Mii's build before the match starts.

But more importantly IMO: it may give the Mii Fighter a sort of advantage (my height was 5'6 not 5'5, a-ha!), but we do not know that it is an unfair advantage. Miis might be the worst character in the game. Players can understand the range of variation of Miis, so they know what to expect going into a match. Instead of "I know he has exactly this weight" it's "I know he has a weight in this range" and battle accordingly. Who cares that the stats are not known precisely? It's different, that's all.

We adapt to Peach's random turnip-faces, it's a dynamic part of the gameplay you just deal with. It should be even easier to adapt to a Mii that has some fixed configuration for each match, and it is either significant enough that you can figure it out after one attack, or it's of such minor impact that it doesn't really matter. Adapt or die.

 

[200X!!]

I am all but certain that weight will affect a given Mii's attributes.

I hope there is a quick and easy means by which to review the stats, because then I may reconsider my stance. I think it'd be ideal if it gave a number, but if it's a slider or something then we'd still be dealing with approximations, and I don't like that. Still, even if it does give exact numbers, my point stands that a player will not have had the opportunity to experience fighting that particular Mii in advance. From what we've seen of the game so far, it seems like there are thresholds after which characters are suddenly knocked back much farther. I want to know where those thresholds are for each character so that I know whether I can continue a combo, and that's not necessarily something I can figure out after one attack on a Mii.

It is indeed also possible that Miis may not be competitively viable at all no matter the size/weight and this is all just not going to be an issue, but I'm setting rules for my tournament under the optimistic assumption that the game will, in fact, be well balanced.

I feel that the main difference between characters with random attacks and characters with customized stats is that you know in advance that Peach has random turnips, and can research their exact properties ahead of time, whereas again, you have only vague, general knowledge of a Mii's stat range.

That said, "adapt or die" is a good mantra. Better players certainly will adapt to unknowns faster. However, my concern remains that Mii Fighters have the potential to cause upsets due to lack of exact match up knowledge in advance for one of the players.

I'm also planning a Smash Run side event in which any sort of customization is allowed, so people will be able to play any Mii Fighters there without restriction. However, in a competitive setting, I think that both players should have access to exact match up info for the most fair fights possible.