Character Competitive Impressions

[Supermodel From Paris]

ZSS is super good in this game. I got everything I wanted.

She's better probably than most of you are even aware. A bunch of her moves were made + on block and her paralyzer recovers faster and travels more slowly so she can confirm hits easier. Very strong character.

My early favorites for S tier are ZSS, Sonic, Rosalina, and Sheik. Honorable mention (for now) to Yoshi and Diddy Kong.

 

[Shaya]

Remember those beautiful days we started getting "objective" frame data on all character's base stats? (Like rolls, jumps, etc).

And then we saw Meta Knight and went "****ing hell Sakurai you and your obvious bias". It's happening all over again, except this time with Zero Suit

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

Yeah from what i've seen R+L may be a big deal this time around. :o

I feel like Marth's range on many of his moves has been slightly reduced. Is that just me? I suspect quite a few characters received nerfs to their range, actually.

Marth's sword has gotten shorter, yes. I was testing him out the other day, and he doesn't have the same range potency he has in Brawl. IMO he can still be viable, but he's not as solid as he used to be.

Remember those beautiful days we started getting "objective" frame data on all character's base stats? (Like rolls, jumps, etc).

And then we saw Meta Knight and went "****ing hell Sakurai you and your obvious bias". It's happening all over again, except this time with Zero Suit

So much truth has been stated.

 

[ChikoLad]

IMO, Zero Suit Samus is the most competitively viable, yet beginner friendly character in the entire game.

She's extremely good and can absolutely dominate, but is also very easy to pick up.

 

[Noa.]

ZSS is super good in this game. I got everything I wanted.

She's better probably than most of you are even aware. A bunch of her moves were made + on block and her paralyzer recovers faster and travels more slowly so she can confirm hits easier. Very strong character.

My early favorites for S tier are ZSS, Sonic, Rosalina, and Sheik. Honorable mention (for now) to Yoshi and Diddy Kong.

A couple weeks ago weren't you talking about how nerfed ZSS is in this game and that she only looked impressive because all of the other top tiers from brawl got nerfed?

And I don't think ZSS is that easy to pick up. I would say that Bowser is really easy though.

 

[mimgrim]

Lightweight (Down-B 2) also grants silly fast movement, but it's kinda unecessary when you have Auto Dash and has the drawback of making an already light character even lighter. Might want to use it if you really need Side-B for the reflect wall.

It actually doesn't make her lighter or take more knockback. It just makes her take more damage. It also works very differently from Super Speed. Lightweight makes her offstage game even better with her increased jumping height and also allows her to follow from throws she normally wouldn't be able to, like Fthrow and Bthrow.

All the neutral Bs are nothing special and it could just be personal preference but the Explosive Flame is probably better than the others. Basically it causes an explosion at a set distance. Great for hitting someone like DHD who is just standing back and projectile zoning.

The thing with Explosive Flame is that it's distance cannot be changed, at all, which makes it more predictable. Autoreticle has way more range and will always hit where the opponent is.

Her dthrow seems to combo to the auto-cancel fair. Always nice to have that. Very Sheik-like.

Her Dthrow combos into Nair, Fair, Bair (if you have the dexterity to quickly RAR after Dthrow), Uair, Dair, and Usmash. This stays the same to higher precents. She has the new Melee Sheik Dthrow, basically, due to how much it leads into for free.

 

[theSug1]

Here are some basic impressions I have discovered and all these are my own opinions.

Bowser Jr {A+}
-Great ground game
-OverB is a strong gap closer and being able to hop cancel into any air attacks is a wonderful mix-up
-NeutralB is great for zoning and edge guarding, bad for using in the middle of the stage as a normal attack
-Very mobile
-Good KO attacks
-Excellent recovery both vertically and horizontally
-Tilts forward, down and up are very strong for damage, range and knock back
-DownB (toy) is a great spacing tool for Bowser Jr to get back into the fight and disrupt characters
-Highly aggressive or campy technique is effective
---Rumored to reduce damage if the flying cup is hit and take normal damage if Bowser Jr's body is hit

/Robin {A}
-Deals a lot of damage with special sword and magical attacks
-SideB is a fantastic spacing tool as well as combo starter/disengage tool
-UpB is good for disruption and recovery
-Aerial attacks with special sword are nasty!
-Takes a lot of time to learn sword and book cool downs
-Even without unique attacks, very strong
-DownB is amazing for damage dealt vs damage recovered (has 45 second reset though...)
-Limited options without magic spellbook
-Pacing is KEY to winning, spamming attacks uses up your limited powerful abilities

Little Mac {not sure B-A maybe}
-Has the BEST ground game of all characters
-Dash attack deals a lot of damage and knock back
-NeutralA has almost no lag out of dash and racks up massive damage
-OverB is great for disengage, mix-ups and mind games
-DownB (counter) is bad, but can get you out of aerial mix-ups
-Cannot handle being in the air for any reason
-Aerials are AWFUL
-With proper spacing and timing can decimate opponents, just rushing in and attacking will not help you win
-Requires a LOT of spacing and proper timing to be good
-Mix up with grabs and tilts to be most effective

Greninja {A+}
-Has amazing ground game and air game
-Smash attacks have great range and are deceptive with hit boxes
-Tilts are good range and damage
-NeutralB (shuriken) has great long range stun and medium range damage (when fully charged) Very important part of kit for spacing and stuns
-Dair bounces off shields
-Uair deals a lot of damage and KO's at good levels
-OverB (shadow sneak) is very important not to spam. Cool down leaves you open to too much punishment. Use sparingly
-NeutralA is great for racking up quick damage
-Can stick to walls
-Great recovery
-Takes skill to rack up damage and KO. Not a straight forward character. Requires creativity to achieve KO's

Olimar {meh, C-}
-Only 3 Pikmin on stage now
-Pikmin follow set pattern now
-Damage from Pikmin is the same as Brawl in element type and damage/knockback
-UpB recovery is greatly improved, can attack out of it
-Feels slower somehow
-Attacks have long recovery times (OverA Smash, DownA Smash)
-Pikmin die just as fast as Brawl
-Olimar can no longer throw 2-3 Pikmin and still have Pikmin ready to smash attack with like in Brawl, you are limited to throwing 1-2 and then having 1 left to defend with
-Olimar has trouble being aggressive or campy with only 3 Pikmin available

Luigi {B}
-Great aerials
-Fair is now godly, can use 3-4 times with a normal jump
-OverB (Luigi rocket) feels weaker now
-Ground game is good
-Luigi excels in the air with grreat damage and priority
-Decent recovery
-NeutralB (fireball) is great for spacing
-Very average, nothing great or awful to speak of
-FUN TO PLAY

/ Wii Fit Trainer (WFT) {C}
-Biggest disappointment in SSB4
-Very basic character, nothing amazing
-Attacks have mediocre range
-Seems to have better knock back than most characters
-Poor recovery
-OverB (soccer ball) used as spacing tool, can change angles depending on how long you hold B button
-DownB is very hard to get correctly. Healing is minimal but damage boost is very good
-Tilts are best attacks for WFT (Ftilt and Utilt)
-Hard to KO with
-Needs to spam NeutralB with tilts to rack up damage

Roselina and Luma {A+}
-Amazing spacing and toolkit
-Hard to grab because you can still control Luma while grabbed
-Basic attacks are very good
-Smashes deal considerable damage and knockback
-Luma has meduim-low HP and can be KO'd quickly
-Great recovery
-DownB helps her stay competitive in the projectile game
-Requires a lot of skill and foresight to be effective
-Very campy character
-Requires good timing on Luma throw and attacks
-Does not engage directly unless absolutely necessary
-Solid aerials, not amazing, not bad. Basic, fundamental aerials
- GREAT in 2v2 games

Shulk {I have no idea}
-Feels like Ike 2.0
-LONG range Fsmash
-Pretty good counter (downB)
-NeutralB (mondo arte) is very hard to use properly, when used right Shulk is a beast
-Requires a lot of practice to use properly
-Everything about Shulk CAN be great when proper mondo arte is used. Or everything can suck when used wrong
-Fair and Nair are very good for range, spacing and damage
-Jump (green arte) gives AMAZING recovery

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

A couple weeks ago weren't you talking about how nerfed ZSS is in this game and that she only looked impressive because all of the other top tiers from brawl got nerfed?

And I don't think ZSS is that easy to pick up. I would say that Bowser is really easy though.

I changed my mind. It happens.

 

[DraginHikari]

Interesting range of opinions coming out of this discussion. The answers to the viability of characters looks like it's on a long road with a lot of possibilities.

 

[Berserker.]

---Rumored to reduce damage if the flying cup is hit and take normal damage if Bowser Jr's body is hit

It's not a rumor. It's actually true. He does take more damage if you hit his body

Bowser Jr is looking good so far. My only issue is trying to KO with him but his campy playstyle is appealing to me. I might play as him for fun. The bugger seems to have grown on me a bit

 

[theSug1]

It's not a rumor. It's actually true. He does take more damage if you hit his body

Bowser Jr is looking good so far. My only issue is trying to KO with him but his campy playstyle is appealing to me. I might play as him for fun. The bugger seems to have grown on me a bit

His air attacks are the KO moves realistically.

 

[Rockaphin]

So far, I've been having good luck with Villager. Surprisingly, he seems to stay alive for quite some time and weighs more than you'd think. Quick characters are very hard to deal with though. Bowling Ball does ridiculous knockback but the range is horrid. However, it can be very useful for edge guards, especially against characters like Little Mac with a vertical recovery.

 

[Signia]

The thing with Explosive Flame is that it's distance cannot be changed, at all, which makes it more predictable. Autoreticle has way more range and will always hit where the opponent is.

Well, sometimes the auto reticle attack doesn't even come out. I'm not really sure how it works. Seems like you have to "hit" them with the reticle which only happens if they're not moving? I think EF is more reliable, even though it has limited use. It's not a projectile where you have to wait for it get to the opponent, it just appears very quickly at a good distance away.

 

[mimgrim]

Well, sometimes the auto reticle attack doesn't even come out. I'm not really sure how it works. Seems like you have to "hit" them with the reticle which only happens if they're not moving? I think EF is more reliable, even though it has limited use. It's not a projectile where you have to wait for it get to the opponent, it just appears very quickly at a good distance away.

They have to be in the range radius. They also can't have a wall or platform blocking them from it. The range however is close to almost half of FD though, I believe. It takes getting use to in how it work at first, but once you figure it out you will see how it shines out the other Nspecials. As it can serve the same purpose Explosive Flame does, handling a character trying to zone you out/camp you out, but is better at it due to the significantly greater range while also serving as a good projectile to zone the opponent out.

 

[Esquire]

R.O.B. is an absolute machine, no pun intended. Smash attacks are incredibly good, with FSmash having one of the best ranges in the game. DSmash is just as crushing as it was in Brawl, a little bit less speedy but seemingly buffed in power. USmash has the greatest buffs and is now a reliable kill move. Tilts are still great spacing options, although it seems that FTilt has both its range reduced and its ending lag increased. Still a good option however. Aerial game is strong, NAir is essentially the same move as it was in Brawl but requires a bit better spacing. UAir combos from DThrow beautifully and it just noticeably a better move, is actually now a kill option. All of his specials sans Up Special received either buffs or beneficial changes, especially his Top. It's so easy to apply top pressure in this game, it's not even funny. IMO, the top has become the Brawl Diddy Banana of SSB4. Wonderful trapping move. His issues will stem with his nerfed recovery ability and his rather clunky rolling. In a game that is mostly shaping up to be heavily geared towards reaction and punishment, R.O.B. is one of the true few characters that can slow down the speed of a match with strong spacing ability and tactful projectile use. He also seems to have pretty great match-ups against some of the best characters in the game, although must be wary of patient Shiek play. I'm failing to see how R.O.B. will not end up near the upper half of the tiers, if not A-tier. 100% going to be my steady main.

DING DING! I came into SSB4 thinking that Little Mac would be completely overrated as a character. After a few days and sporting a 90% win rate on For Glory, Little Mac is not overrated. He is just being played incorrectly by most players. Little Mac is NOT optimized when playing a balls-to-the-walls aggressive strategy. That is not to say that he won't win when doing so (this actually is probably Mac's best option against projectile characters). Against most characters, however, Mac wants to play the role of punisher. Let your opponent move first, and the instant you see an opening, strike. Edge guard and force an opponent to either react and whiff or get nailed with DTilt -> FSmash. A patient playstyle allows Mac to perform really well even against characters that should have a positive match-up against Mac. That said, when Little Mac has troubles against a character, he hits a wall hard. The two characters I've been having the most trouble with are Jigglypuff and Zero Suit Samus. Jigglypuff has amazing short hop set-ups that forces Little Mac to play a waiting game to see when and where Jigglypuff will land. UTilt helps somewhat, but doesn't always leave Mac in an optimal position. ZSS, on the other hand, is just fast and can easily send Mac off the ledge horizontally. I've won against some of these match-ups, but a majority of them are really hard for Mac. Calling it right now, Little Mac will not be a popular main character choice at tournaments, but will be one of the best characters to have as a pocket choice. A pocket Little Mac is a scary thing to pull out at 1-1.

/ Robin is good, but actually plays a lot more like a Fire Emblem character than one might initially think. His/her projectile game is strong. Arcfire is amazing, it's pretty much what Ness' PK Fire wishes it was. Excellent deterrent for approaches. Thunder is good, but can't just spam it willy-nilly with much success. Back to my starting point, Robin actually takes some finesse to use correctly, and proper spacing/timing is required to actually hit with the Levin Sword. Moves are pretty punishable overall, can't just throw out smashes and aerials willy-nilly. Robin is not a character you can simply pick up and consistently win with, but from a competitive standpoint, Robin will certainly find usage in tournaments. I do question his/her speed and overall ending lag with moves, however.

/ To buck the trend of this post so far, heavily disappointed with these two characters. Pit is not even close to the same character he was in Brawl, which as a successful Pit main in Brawl, really rustles my jimmies. Recovery is fine, not really the issue. His major issue is that he's lacking good knockback/kill options like he had in Brawl. BAir nerf is just terrible, moderate risk with little to zero reward. Can only consistently kill with FSmash and Side Special. Arrows are close to useless now, too slow and do not last long enough to warrant usage. Unsure as to why this was changed, as pretty much every other projectile user has better spacing options now. I just don't know how he fits in a game where he lacks the power to play aggressively, but has been nerfed so that his spacing options are limited or risky. Regarding his potential match-up issues with nearly every top character in the game, I'm forced to ask myself "Why would I use this character?". I'm very upset with how Pit and Dark Pit were handled, but I'll get over it. RIP Pit.

EDIT: Oh, and as one final "calling it now" point, is a good character, but will become a much better competitive choice in the Wii U version. The 3DS controls don't seem to mesh well with him, but the GCN controller seems like a perfect fit (in theory at least).

 

[Remzi]

Charizard is not a good character at all, without Custom Specials at least. You can go into details on how some of his moves are pretty damn good individually, how he has great KO Power and how his survivability is pretty good as well. But in the end it doesn't really flow together very well ending up in a solid character.
He can't really pressure his opponent in many situations, he has no good zoning tools, it's very easy to camp him, he can't approach, he has no OoS tools other than a really good grab ... I don't see how this character is supposed to be able to compete.

I disagree. Just because he has a large hurtbox does not make him easy to camp. He has terrific ground speed, multiple jumps, far reaching hitboxes, and a flare blitz that tears through projectiles. Not to mention flamethrower which does the same (tears through projectiles) AND pushes Charizard back upon connecting, making it very difficult to punish. Nair autocancels off a non-fastfalled SH and has an active hitbox until you land, making it a formidable cross up and combo starter. Up B OoS kills at 80ish on most characters, and if you force an airdodge, punishing with Up B will do the same. You already mentioned his survivability, but he's one of the heaviest characters and thats coupled with several, dynamic recovery options.

His jab is fast, has mixup potential, and sends opponents at an upward diagonal, allowing for lots of follow ups. He's not perfect, and he definitely seems susceptible to heavy pressure, ground based characters. But he's no slouch. He has anti-air options for days, and he punishes HARD. The verdict is definitely still out on Zard.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Everyone should have a pocket Sheik and a pocket little mac.

No excuses.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Everyone should have a pocket Sheik and a pocket little mac.

No excuses.

+ everybody should get a grasp on Rosalina in order to understand how she works and to figure out tactics against her asap

 

[Emblem Lord]

Still your blasphemous tongue.

I'm maining that **** after people figure out all the broken **** with her.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Meh

I'm just gonna b-reverse paralyzer

 

[epicgordan]

Okay, so I unlocked all of Sonic's custom moves, and needless to say, I am not impressed with the choices. There may be some practical uses for his side and down specials, and the up specials are not terrible per se. But it seems that Sonic is meant to thrive on his default moveset first and foremost, and as a result, he becomes something of a predictable choice to counter. I can all but guarantee that if custom moves are a part of the meta game, it may prove crippling to Sonic.

But who knows? I did say there may be some practical uses for his custom side and down specials, while his up specials most definitely does so, so maybe they are meant to take the unsuspecting foes off-guard. I tried both of his neutrals, and I do not like a single one of them.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Meh

I'm just gonna b-reverse paralyzer

Thnx for the tip bro.

*Taking notes for my side chick ZSS till I move onto the waifu Rosalina*

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'm maining that **** after people figure out all the broken **** with her.

With Rain, dabuz and 9B maining her it probably won't take long until a lot of broken stuff is figured out.

 

[BJN39]

So like almost every time I find more of Zelda's data, she seems to get worse...

Seriously. there's about a full second now of lag after both her kicks, not to mention the increased landing lag on them AND the whole 10 frames more landing lag on NAir, and the nerfed KB and hit-box of UAir.

Din's is just worse than Brawl. Common knowledge stuff.

Phantom just could have been so much more. Its offensive stats are just offensive, and are basically all worse than Din's sweetspot stats. You can't shield cancel it mid-charge, hold a full charge for a later like a charge shot, OR EVEN hold the vortex indefinitely. The phantom only gains a decent length of meat shield time after full charge, and it doesn't detect people on the way out of full charge--THERE'S A STININ' BLIND SPOT ABOUT A CHAR LENGTH LONG IN FRONT OF ZELDA. Not to mention it doesn't go very far at full charge either. Oh yeah, did I mention it's reflectable?

Also, all of her KB stats are the same or worse than Brawl's, which effectively nerfs her KO prowess because of the huge blastzones. And her best KO move is still, you guessed it, her kicks. Which shouldn't be used because of the long lag and risk all around on them.

Screw FW. Anyone with a shield along with the knowledge of not spamming slow moves when she's within FW range can beat it.

And yet, lmao; she's definitely the best she's been yet in this game. At least her grab is tied with the fastest grabs now. That's enough IMO to pull her up some. I guess it should also be mentioned many of her ground attacks (Ftilt, Utilt, Dsmash, and Usmash, and maybe even Jab and Dtilt.) are faster too. Still though, the neglect is REAL. Her BAir still even has more KB than FAir like in Brawl. Pretty much proof Sakurai and co. didn't even check her stats when porting bringing her form brawl in certain places.

 

[Time/SpaceMage]

Wii Fit Trainer (WFT) {C}

-Biggest disappointment in SSB4

-Very basic character, nothing amazing

-Attacks have mediocre range

-Seems to have better knock back than most characters

-Poor recovery

-OverB (soccer ball) used as spacing tool, can change angles depending on how long you hold B button

-DownB is very hard to get correctly. Healing is minimal but damage boost is very good

-Tilts are best attacks for WFT (Ftilt and Utilt)

-Hard to KO with

-Needs to spam NeutralB with tilts to rack up damage

Adding to this, a demo tip says you can cancel the soccer ball by shielding. That sounds like a nice mixup.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Also according to the tips her U-smash has invincibility frames.

 

[Malcolm Belmont]

I may be wrong on this but based on the matches i have played with Narth. I think Duck Hunt Dog is a bad matchup for Rosalina

 

[Esquire]

While still a bit raw in terms of match-up knowledge (as anyone should be right now), I can tell you that characters that have piercing projectiles tend to do very well against Rosalina. By default, for example, R.O.B. is an excellent pick against Rosalina, as not only does Neutral B laser pierce through Luma and hit Rosalina directly but Spinning Top pretty much halts Luma's advance and doesn't dissolve on impact like a shield block. So the top staying active after hitting Luma is a huge blessing. Can't tell you the number of times where I was easily able to keep Luma at bay and even quickly KO it thanks to just basic projectile play. Rosalina players have difficulty adjusting to dodging one projectile with two characters at the same time.

IIRC, some characters like Pit have custom options where piercing projectiles can be used, but unsure of their overall viability. May be just a counter-pick option against Rosalina.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Palatina's power is tied to her ability to use custom movesets. She needs to be able to switch in order to take advantage in match-ups.

Her base moveset needs almost if not all customs.

Lil'Mac is gonna be good but really only at top level play, For Glory Mac's are really easy to abuse and it's mostly when you figure out, oh this is how he works! Still he is solid.

Falco got nerfed really hard, except for a few areas. Wolf Bair is OP. Still ouch, I can't play him like Brawl or Melee. Still working with him but he feels really wonky. Might be the 3DS. But I can say, I can combo better that I could in Brawl.

Ganon's read punish potential is one of the best in The game I think. He seems faster but now his KO potential really sticks out with people living a lot longer and not being able to kill. Side B has amazing rewards for the right tech chases.

 

[Time/SpaceMage]

While still a bit raw in terms of match-up knowledge (as anyone should be right now), I can tell you that characters that have piercing projectiles tend to do very well against Rosalina.

How does Megaman's fsmash fare? Does it pierce through Luma too? Granted I would expect Gravity Pull to work on it...

Also, do sticky projectiles like Crash Bomb and pikmin stick to Luma?

 

[Dpete]

How does Megaman's fsmash fare? Does it pierce through Luma too? Granted I would expect Gravity Pull to work on it...

Also, do sticky projectiles like Crash Bomb and pikmin stick to Luma?

For MM, his Fsmash does not pierce through Luma. Metal Blade does, though. If Crash Bomb hits Luma, it explodes on impact.

 

[A2ZOMG]

So like almost every time I find more of Zelda's data, she seems to get worse...

Seriously. there's about a full second now of lag after both her kicks, not to mention the increased landing lag on them AND the whole 10 frames more landing lag on NAir, and the nerfed KB and hit-box of UAir.

Din's is just worse than Brawl. Common knowledge stuff.

Phantom just could have been so much more. Its offensive stats are just offensive, and are basically all worse than Din's sweetspot stats. You can't shield cancel it mid-charge, hold a full charge for a later like a charge shot, OR EVEN hold the vortex indefinitely. The phantom only gains a decent length of meat shield time after full charge, and it doesn't detect people on the way out of full charge--THERE'S A STININ' BLIND SPOT ABOUT A CHAR LENGTH LONG IN FRONT OF ZELDA. Not to mention it doesn't go very far at full charge either. Oh yeah, did I mention it's reflectable?

Also, all of her KB stats are the same or worse than Brawl's, which effectively nerfs her KO prowess because of the huge blastzones. And her best KO move is still, you guessed it, her kicks. Which shouldn't be used because of the long lag and risk all around on them.

Screw FW. Anyone with a shield along with the knowledge of not spamming slow moves when she's within FW range can beat it.

And yet, lmao; she's definitely the best she's been yet in this game. At least her grab is tied with the fastest grabs now. That's enough IMO to pull her up some. I guess it should also be mentioned many of her ground attacks (Ftilt, Utilt, Dsmash, and Usmash, and maybe even Jab and Dtilt.) are faster too. Still though, the neglect is REAL. Her BAir still even has more KB than FAir like in Brawl. Pretty much proof Sakurai and co. didn't even check her stats when porting bringing her form brawl in certain places.

More like, Zelda would have been really lame and annoying but still unviable if she wasn't changed the way she was changed.

Smaller hitbox on Din's in exchange for airdodging being nerfed hard? I'll take that on a character like Zelda who has really good land trap options.

Zelda in this game actually has a usable approach and long range KO options that are viable. Furthermore, she's one of the harder characters in this game to kill when she has a teleport that goes like 3/4 the length of FD that no longer is vulnerable to edgehogging and gets you out of edge traps and juggle traps nearly free. You said it yourself. This is the best version of Zelda that exists.

Zelda in this game survives long and hits hard, and is rewarded significantly for good reads. She is still good at keeping people out when she has the lead, but actually can approach and has ways to punish airdodges at long range that she couldn't punish hard before previously. If you're getting Faore's shielded, you're using it wrong, because it's strictly a punish and mobility tool, and one of the best ones in the game for that purpose.

Phantom is situational, but honestly isn't too bad. It is common for people to commit to walling Zelda out at midrange due to her low mobility. Phantom isn't terrible on block, and you can use it to read and punish commitments outside of DA range. You shouldn't be complaining about a close range blind spot when nobody wants Zelda to get in close range in the first place (top 3 Jab and D-tilt arguably, really good throw reward, F-smash that is safe on powershield? Zelda may struggle to get close, but she's super dangerous when she does get there).

Plus, you very, very drastically understate how important edge trapping is in this game, when you're playing a character like ZELDA who is really scary to get up against.

Plus, EVERYONE got nerfed. When you realize that most characters do like 7-9% a hit in this game, and that Zelda is hard to edge trap and land trap, she's pretty blatantly better in this game than she was previously.

 

[Thalassa]

So I'm not an expert but I kind of feel like Little Mac will get worse as time passes. He's really strong but very straightforward and he doesn't really seem to have any advanced tactics available to him. As such I think his meta game will stagnate over time while more mechanically complex characters like Greninja, Shulk and Robin will become better as people discover and learn all the crazy stuff you can do.

Unrelated to that, I feel like R.O.B is a lot better now. He lost some damage but he gained speed and knockback on many moves.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Macs footsies are simply too strong for him to drop past high tier imo. He has the best ground game.

PERIOD

 

[A2ZOMG]

So I'm not an expert but I kind of feel like Little Mac will get worse as time passes. He's really strong but very straightforward and he doesn't really seem to have any advanced tactics available to him. As such I think his meta game will stagnate over time while more mechanically complex characters like Greninja, Shulk and Robin will become better as people discover and learn all the crazy stuff you can do.

Unrelated to that, I feel like R.O.B is a lot better now. He lost some damage but he gained speed and knockback on many moves.

Being straightfoward doesn't necessarily make you bad. Look at Fei Long in SSF4 AE. Character really only has one game plan and barely has mixups outside of counterhits and the occasional command grab. Top tier character.

Look at Link in almost every Smash game. Intricate game plan that has a lot of ATs and cool tricks and setups. Bottom tier.

And what Emblem Lord said.

 

[-Mars-]

Macs footsies are simply too strong for him to drop past high tier imo. He has the best ground game.

PERIOD

Ground game can be bypassed almost entirely in Smash by several characters.

Add in the fact that he has arguably the worst recovery in the game, once people start tightening their offstage game and get adjusted to the new ledge mechanics.... I see him as a mid tier character barring any further discoveries.

In Smash you MUST be able to get back to the stage.

 

[Yonder]

A good Mac is pretty wicked, I hardly lose on for For Glory as Luigi and lost by a hair to a Mac. On FD, he is simply devastating.

That being said, stages with platforms are going to be extremely problematic.

He's not perfect, but he makes a great counterpick character for certain matchups I believe against characters that prefer to fight on the ground. Avoid fights with characters like Jigglypuff, possibly Meta Knight, aerial characters.

 

[InfinityCollision]

Mac may not have an air game worth beans, but his antiair game is fine. Armored smash attacks are one hell of a drug if your timing is on point, let alone any other option you can take in that scenario. Proper spacing makes him nigh unpunishable against grounded opponents too.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Being straightfoward doesn't necessarily make you bad. Look at Fei Long in SSF4 AE. Character really only has one game plan and barely has mixups outside of counterhits and the occasional command grab. Top tier character.

Also helps that Fei Long's kit was ridiculously strong. How safe was Chickenwing? EX Chickenwing? His rekkas? Fei Long was crazy, dude.

Look at Link in almost every Smash game. Intricate game plan that has a lot of ATs and cool tricks and setups. Bottom tier.

Truth. Link almost always gets the short end of the stick in these games.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Luco]

It's not a rumor. It's actually true. He does take more damage if you hit his body

Bowser Jr is looking good so far. My only issue is trying to KO with him but his campy playstyle is appealing to me. I might play as him for fun. The bugger seems to have grown on me a bit

I'm lovintg Bowser Jr. Feels so satisfying to win with him and he's way too cute. :D

His actual moveset is a bit strange though. He feels mobile but at the same time some of his moves have a lot of lag that bugs me. Most notably his side aerials tend to have a bit of lag on them, especially landing lag. His specials have a bit of lag on them too and his car feels like it gets beaten out by just about everything else out there.

Still, I enjoy playing as him a lot. Don't really know what to think of his competitive viability. I'd like to see his top players honestly. :3