Luco
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Jan 4, 2011
- Messages
- 9,232
- Location
- The isle of venom, Australia
- NNID
- dracilus
- 3DS FC
- 2638-1462-5558
I'm gonna continue some of my analysis here where you guys can see it. Seeing as @adom4 and I have been playing in person for the past 5 hours, I'm going to give some impressions on the Ganny MU to kick off with:
versus is really interesting. One of Ganon's better top tier MUs, Ness has to play really honestly and respect all of Ganon's AC windows (oh my gawd there are so many). The issue here comes about when Ness gets a grab. At early or even mid percents, Ness can Dthrow to Fair chain ganon off-stage, and this is a really bad position for the king of evil to be in, because he has almost no answer to PKT as an edge-guarding tool. Lacking mobility and super armour (outside of customs but we'll get into that), he can take so much damage from PKT alone, whether he's actually trying to get to the ledge, or get from the ledge to on-stage, PKT can loop around so fast for him that Ganon will often be taking 20% or more every time he's off-stage. This means Ness gets so much reward off each and every grab, to the point where he can out-dps Ganon with a good read in neutral. Ness can often even just go in and Bair or Nair for a stage spike or in the worst case scenario, put Ganondorf too far out to even hope to come back. With customs, Dark fists means he can get to the ledge easier but still struggles to get back onto the stage, and drop-kick doesn't really do much for him that default doesn't aside from making sure he gets back to the stage (which isn't the issue, it's the fact that he's taking 20+% in the process) as it's almost as punishable in neutral (if you're grabbing Ganny then it makes no difference). That being said, Ganny has his own mean strings and edge-guards Ness offstage really well (especially if we don't have our DJ). Failing to win in footsies costs a lot, but surprisingly enough, if you respect Ganon enough, his kill options can become... well, kind of limited. In most of our games I was living to well over 100% by respecting Ganon's setups and kill moves (Flame choke ---> stuff I alternated teching and rolling, Fair I'd do a multitude of things against such as get my own Fair in quickly, or just respect it, Ganon has hilariously short grab range, Usmash I just respected, etc.) Perhaps this is why practically Ganon and other heavy hitters don't do well enough, because you can really accustom yourself to their options and win it out yourself because, at least in Ness' case, grab will seal the deal eventually and it's far safer. It's strange. That being said, in both customs on and off, the MU is no greater than a +1 for Ness. With players of equal skill, the difference can show, but matches can turn very quickly. Adom is a great Ganon main (the best one I've played) and we really enjoyed our evening! We even went out and got McDonalds together like classic smashers. I had a great time. :D
could be a -1 but I've heard @DunnoBro really doesn't enjoy this MU in customs off. In customs on I hear it's significantly better. Ness edge-guards doggie so hard though.
- We aggro the king and stay in his face really well, as most rushdowns do. He's so freakin' heavy though. Potentially a few things I said about Ganon also apply here about him off-stage and how he kills. He can also turn a match around with a good read. Smoothie and I have only played it a few times though, and I've only played Dedede a couple times in tournament before that. :o
- so this matchup used to get played a LOT at high level back when Nairo was using Robin, and I think NAKAT won most of the time. We have to respect Robin's tools, but nowhere near as much as other characters. If we get inside Robin's dead zone she's in trouble. If we get her offstage, doubly so. Levin sword is great but grab is not.
- I really, honestly feel like we pretty much do everything Jiggs does in the air, but better. Honestly the scariest thing about her for me is her ground game, which granted isn't that shabby. Also it doesn't help that you're dying to Bthrow (or more commonly Uair/Bair) at sub-100%s consistently. She has some nice strings on us at early percents though, and edge-guards us decently well if she can get there in time. I have a friend who I used to go dead even with in brawl (back when he mained Pit and I mained Ness/Lucas), then suddenly when smash 4 hit he started playing Jiggs and I was really ripping through him with Ness. Idk.
I dunno, are there any other MUs you'd like me to talk about? I feel like after my nice detailed talk about Ganon everything else is going to pale in comparison because I haven't played these MUs in so long if at all and often just refer to what the respective boards talk about.
versus is really interesting. One of Ganon's better top tier MUs, Ness has to play really honestly and respect all of Ganon's AC windows (oh my gawd there are so many). The issue here comes about when Ness gets a grab. At early or even mid percents, Ness can Dthrow to Fair chain ganon off-stage, and this is a really bad position for the king of evil to be in, because he has almost no answer to PKT as an edge-guarding tool. Lacking mobility and super armour (outside of customs but we'll get into that), he can take so much damage from PKT alone, whether he's actually trying to get to the ledge, or get from the ledge to on-stage, PKT can loop around so fast for him that Ganon will often be taking 20% or more every time he's off-stage. This means Ness gets so much reward off each and every grab, to the point where he can out-dps Ganon with a good read in neutral. Ness can often even just go in and Bair or Nair for a stage spike or in the worst case scenario, put Ganondorf too far out to even hope to come back. With customs, Dark fists means he can get to the ledge easier but still struggles to get back onto the stage, and drop-kick doesn't really do much for him that default doesn't aside from making sure he gets back to the stage (which isn't the issue, it's the fact that he's taking 20+% in the process) as it's almost as punishable in neutral (if you're grabbing Ganny then it makes no difference). That being said, Ganny has his own mean strings and edge-guards Ness offstage really well (especially if we don't have our DJ). Failing to win in footsies costs a lot, but surprisingly enough, if you respect Ganon enough, his kill options can become... well, kind of limited. In most of our games I was living to well over 100% by respecting Ganon's setups and kill moves (Flame choke ---> stuff I alternated teching and rolling, Fair I'd do a multitude of things against such as get my own Fair in quickly, or just respect it, Ganon has hilariously short grab range, Usmash I just respected, etc.) Perhaps this is why practically Ganon and other heavy hitters don't do well enough, because you can really accustom yourself to their options and win it out yourself because, at least in Ness' case, grab will seal the deal eventually and it's far safer. It's strange. That being said, in both customs on and off, the MU is no greater than a +1 for Ness. With players of equal skill, the difference can show, but matches can turn very quickly. Adom is a great Ganon main (the best one I've played) and we really enjoyed our evening! We even went out and got McDonalds together like classic smashers. I had a great time. :D could be a -1 but I've heard @DunnoBro really doesn't enjoy this MU in customs off. In customs on I hear it's significantly better. Ness edge-guards doggie so hard though. - We aggro the king and stay in his face really well, as most rushdowns do. He's so freakin' heavy though. Potentially a few things I said about Ganon also apply here about him off-stage and how he kills. He can also turn a match around with a good read. Smoothie and I have only played it a few times though, and I've only played Dedede a couple times in tournament before that. :o - so this matchup used to get played a LOT at high level back when Nairo was using Robin, and I think NAKAT won most of the time. We have to respect Robin's tools, but nowhere near as much as other characters. If we get inside Robin's dead zone she's in trouble. If we get her offstage, doubly so. Levin sword is great but grab is not. - I really, honestly feel like we pretty much do everything Jiggs does in the air, but better. Honestly the scariest thing about her for me is her ground game, which granted isn't that shabby. Also it doesn't help that you're dying to Bthrow (or more commonly Uair/Bair) at sub-100%s consistently. She has some nice strings on us at early percents though, and edge-guards us decently well if she can get there in time. I have a friend who I used to go dead even with in brawl (back when he mained Pit and I mained Ness/Lucas), then suddenly when smash 4 hit he started playing Jiggs and I was really ripping through him with Ness. Idk.I dunno, are there any other MUs you'd like me to talk about? I feel like after my nice detailed talk about Ganon everything else is going to pale in comparison because I haven't played these MUs in so long if at all and often just refer to what the respective boards talk about.
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