Character Competitive Impressions

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Both. Ganon can kill you for missing an attack, but you have to miss it within range of him. Pikachu can punish any whiffed attack, but Quick Attack will only do like 2-3% damage. Both have usable punish games, but it's not something that you have to constantly be wary of.

Eh... That 2-3% is closer to 20-30% at low percents, and at least 13 if your opponent isn't way up there.

 

[|RK|]

Isn't that every up special, though?

Although it certainly does affect some MUs because it's so scary to whiff the move, lol. At least Kirby is floaty so he has a chance of getting back.

Quoting this because the other is too long:

What do you mean why does Meta Knight have a voice?

Second, are you just taking everything from the anime as true canon?

 

[Purin a.k.a. José]

If you like to get shield grabbed.

I wouldn't suggest using it as an approach.

Thanks

 

[HeroMystic]

FWIW, the only other player that seems to be within reach of Zero is probably Megafox.

I personally know Megafox, as he comes to our weeklies almost all the time and while I would 100% bank on him being the best player in San Antonio or even Texas in taking on Zero, I don't quite believe he's taken on a player of such caliber to bank on him being competition. He also lost to Denti and then Aerolink in our monthly in Feburary (though he beat Denti in TGC1 a week later, and then Shaky) and he does have some predictability in his gameplay, though he adapts fast when anyone catches on to him, and his ability to learn from watching a match or two, live, is out of this world.

Definitely a top tier player who would've made waves in Apex (At the very least top 32, with 100% certainty) and Aftershock, but he's not super-serious about the game like Zero is. He basically goes to our weeklies so we can donate to his college funds.

 

[Nobie]

I don't want to derail this too far away from the actual purpose of this thread, but I do want to say that Meta Knight's Japanese voice actor in Smash Bros. is the same as his voice in the anime. Even if you ignore that, he talks in Kirby Superstar. He's also shown to have both a chivalrous personality and a "gray" position when it comes to good/evil from the very first game he appears in (Kirby's Adventure) because he constantly sends his minions to test Kirby and then when they finally face off he refuses to fight unless Kirby picks up a sword.

Complaining that he doesn't take attacks perfectly from his games is just something that's on some level a product of gameplay and balance. There's a reason Kirby doesn't have infinite jumps, or why Mega Man's up air doesn't shoot out three tornadoes simultaneously.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I don't want to derail this too far away from the actual purpose of this thread, but I do want to say that Meta Knight's Japanese voice actor in Smash Bros. is the same as his voice in the anime. Even if you ignore that, he talks in Kirby Superstar. He's also shown to have both a chivalrous personality and a "gray" position when it comes to good/evil from the very first game he appears in (Kirby's Adventure) because he constantly sends his minions to test Kirby and then when they finally face off he refuses to fight unless Kirby picks up a sword.

Complaining that he doesn't take attacks perfectly from his games is just something that's on some level a product of gameplay and balance. There's a reason Kirby doesn't have infinite jumps, or why Mega Man's up air doesn't shoot out three tornadoes simultaneously.

Ignoring the fact that Mach Tornado was cited as a ripped off version of a Copy Ability that debuted in a game AFTER Mach Tornado already made an appearance in the form of Kirby Super Star. Also ignoring the fact that Meta Knight is heavy implied to be the same species as Kirby (sorry, not implied, he IS, hence similar attacks and movement outside of wings), etc. S'like if I asked why Luigi had Green Missile. I don't know why, it just sort of...works.

Also Crescent Slash Marth is, by all accounts, absolutely excellent. I might try actually running it a bit more often and experimenting, might be worth considering. It turns his rather sullen grab game into something nice as far as F-Throw goes...

 

[Antonykun]

Is Final Cutter a good attack to approaching? I always use it.

I just realized you are saying final cutter and not upper cutter.
No, avoid that move. It is a free punish outside of lag 99% of the time.

 

[Ffamran]

Is there a list or something on characters that can Jab cancel and ones that can effectively Jab cancel into stuff? So far, most people know about Fox and Link if more people would use him... Anyway, there's also Sheik, Triple D, Luigi, Falco, Ike, Palutena, Samus who apparently has a tip on it, ZSS?, and apparently DK, Rosalina, and Greninja as well. Also, Sonic and Captain Falcon might be able to which might be moot for the Capt. since his Gentleman Jab is good, but considering he could possibly hit confirm to other moves is pretty awesome.

Edit: Add Toon Link to that which makes sense since well... yeah...

 

[Sinister Slush]

I know it was sarcasm, but kinda upset getting placings at nationals like APEX is the only way uninformed people that're too lazy to step outside of the box of whatever's on leddit's front page or what the top players are tweeting about to care who other good players are.

 

[Unknownkid]

I just realized you are saying final cutter and not upper cutter.
No, avoid that move. It is a free punish outside of lag 99% of the time.

You shouldn't be approaching with Upper Cutter. That will put you back to neutral until like 50% or so.
Final Cutter is not bad. It isn't Upper Cutter great but I still prefer it over Wave Cutter.
The Blade Hitbox can beat most projectiles, has weak meteor smash on the edge, and a shockwave that doesn't clash with Projectiles (for some strange reason).

Is there a list or something on characters that can Jab cancel and ones that can effectively Jab cancel into stuff? So far, most people know about Fox and Link if more people would use him... Anyway, there's also Sheik, Triple D, Luigi, Falco, Ike, Palutena, Samus who apparently has a tip on it, ZSS?, and apparently DK, Rosalina, and Greninja as well. Also, Sonic and Captain Falcon might be able to which might be moot for the Capt. since his Gentleman Jab is good, but considering he could possibly hit confirm to other moves is pretty awesome.

Edit: Add Toon Link to that which makes sense since well... yeah...

I know Swordfighter does since his Jab is similar to Link's. I think Kirby does too. I have seen Triple R do Jab->Jab into Grab.

 

[Nu~]

Im not entirely sure, but I think pac-man can jab cancel into trampoline. I need to test his more.

Edit:And apparently Ffamran found out before me lol

 

[Ffamran]

I know Swordfighter does since his Jab is similar to Link's. I think Kirby does too. I have seen Triple R do Jab->Jab into Grab.

Little check on Jab canceling, so this is a quick look and nothing in depth. Posted in the Zelda Social and the discussion sort of began there... And there are way too many characters. I left out the ones mentioned above and the Mii Fighters. Also, starting with Diddy, it's all done on Mario.

Damn it, Mario! Stop pushing people forward with your Jab! So far, it might be okay for Down Smash, Dtilt, Ftilt, and Super Jump Punch since it freaking moves people forward making it difficult to grab, repeat Jab, or Utilt. Same goes for Dr. Mario except worse since he has more knockback...

And yeah, Toon Link can Jab cancel too which makes sense since he's toon Link... Y'know, a toon version of Link? As for Little Mac, Jab 1's delay is longer than Jab 2; Jab 2 to Dtilt is pretty wicked since Dtilt hit confirms into Rising Uppercut and KO Punch, Jab 2 can go into Rising Uppercut too... hehe. And yeah, he can grab out of Jab 2 while Ftilt and Utilt might miss, especially Ftilt which could be used to catch someone if they get out of his Gentleman.

Bowser's Jab 1 has knockback and I don't think he can do much aside from Jab 1 to Ftilt and maybe Dash Slam. I'm not sure...

Bowser Jr.'s Jab 1 has less delay to act into other moves than Jab 2, but Jab 2 can be delayed into Jab 1 and Jab 2 again. He can Jab 1 or Jab 2 into tilts and Smashes which I forgot to mention...

Diddy... uh... I think Diddy can Jab lock Captain Falcon with Jab 1 and Jab 2 which can repeat into itself fairly well. Acting into anything else has a longer delay for some reason. I also checked Mario and he can sort of do Jab lock Mario... For those that hate people, please test this.

The Pits can Jab 1 to grab while Jab 2 might need them to run towards to grab. Jab 1 to Ftilt is fairly fast and Jab 2 to Dtilt seems to be faster than out of Jab 1, but I'm not sure.

I'm not getting much success with Robin other than repeating Jab 2 back to Jab 1 and Jab 2. Meta Knight... Meta Knight can repeat Ftilt 1 or Ftilt 2 to Ftilt 1 and 2 and he can Ftilt 1 or Ftilt 2 to Dtilt, Utilt, Up and Down Smashes, and grab. Not that useful, especially with Ftilt 1 into grab since the hit stun isn't great and the delay's noticeable unless I'm doing something wrong.

Cool, Pac-Man can Jab 1 or Jab 2 to tilts or back to Jab 1 easily while Smashes and grab are slower. He can Jab 1 or Jab 2 to Hydrant, Trampoline, and Bonus Fruit, it's kind of funny with Hydrant since he just punches and slaps a fire hydrant down. Oh, and Jab cancel to taunts will be the new metagame.

As expected, Shulk can Jab 1 to Jab 1 or Jab 2 to Jab 1 again like Ike. He can Jab 1 to grab, but the knockback might be much along with the delay, but Jab 1 to Dtilt is nifty compared to his other tilts and Smashes. Jab 1 and Jab 2 can go into Air Slash, but Jab 1 seems to lead into it a bit faster.

Repeating Wii Fit Trainer's Jab 1 is hilarious since she just sticks out her arm and leg repeatedly. She can repeat Jab 1 and 2 fairly well and grabbing be an issue because of her range. Tilts are fine except for Utilt because it's more of a vertical hit rather than a horizontal one; Ftilt might be a good choice since it's fast and has decent range compared to the other tilts, sure, Dtilt has more range, but it's slower. That said, there feels like more delay for them compare to repeating her Jab.

Not exactly fast, but Villager's Jab 1 or 2 can go into tilts and Smashes, but be careful about Utilt , Up and Side Smash. Villager can also Jab 1 or 2 to Axe, Pocket which I guess Villager can hit confirm into a Pocket throw... thing... and Lloid Rocket which is kind of hilarious since Villager slaps a Lloid Rocket in front of him after punching. Grabbing might not be a good idea since it's slow. It makes sense for Villager to be able to Jab into things since Villager's Jab is basically controllable Rapid Jab unlike Meta Knight's. Let's see how Villager can get more broken. Seriously, Villager can Jab to Down Smash. Think about that or hit confirm into Axe.

My boy Ness can Jab 1 and Jab 2 to tilts except for Utilt, Smashes, and grab. He can repeat it too and it feels a bit like using Fox's Jab cancel, reset, lock... thing. Look, he's basically capable of pulling the stuff Luigi can too. Seriously, this kid's grab game... FAAAAAALCO! MOVE YOUR ARMS FASTER! IT'S JAB AND GRAB, IDIOT!

ROB can Jab 1 to stuff too like grab, tilts, Smashes, Gyro, Robo Beam, etc. but the way Mario's landing... Yeah, it might be a bit dangerous if Mario can act of out it.

Huh, I didn't know Duck Hunt had a Gentleman Jab. Yeah, same dealio, Duck Hunt can Jab 1 or 2 into tilts and grab while Smashes are too slow. As for Specials, Duck Hunt can throw Can out which I don't recommend since it might cause Duck Hunt to SD while Clay is slow.

Jigglypuff does the same thing as Kirby, especially with grabbing. Utilt won't hit while Side Smash and Dtilt are a bit slow, so go for Ftilt and maybe Up and Down Smash. Don't bother with Specials, especially Rest. Jigglypuff can repeat Jab as well.

Charizard can Jab repeat Jab 1 and 2, grab out of either of them, use any tilt, but Utilt, Smash, and use Specials, especially Rock Smash and Fly which is iffy since if Charizard knocks the opponent too far, it'll whiff.

Mr. Game & Watch basically pulls of the same thing as Palutena. Jab 1 to anything. So, GimR wannabes, Jab 1 to D-throw and Judge. Just beware that outside from grab and tilts, his Smashes are slower for this purpose while Chef, Judge, Bucket - why would you do this? -, Oil Panic - hit confirm possibly? -, and Fire/Parachute all work.

Lucina and Marth's Jab 1 to anything is slow and the knockback might be much. Dolphin Slash works, though and Dtilt sort of works... Grabbing probably won't because of the knockback and it looks like they have to set their swords before they can do anything other than Jab 2.

Olimar I don't think can do much from Jab. I checked Peach and I don't think she can do much since it's a bit long between actions. Same with Wario. Why is Lucario's Jab like that? Jaysus it's weird; the delay between a free action into say, tilts and grabs are way too long... As for Pikachu, probably not worth it since Pikachu's Jab is weak. Mega Man's Jab being "non-traditional" makes it difficult to do much aside from Jab to Ftilt which might as well be the same move as Jab or Dtilt. Also since there's knockback if Mega Man's close with his Jab - the setting down of his arm is considered a hit, right? - already makes it so he can do much but Jab or move away.

Edit: Derp. Forgot to include what Bowser Jr. could even do after Jab 1 and 2.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Doc's Jab has enough KB and hitstun to confirm into an Up+B vs. some floaties I think. Worth mentioning (I'll test it more later)

 

[Smooth Criminal]

D3 can jab1/jab2 > grab at lower percents.

D3 can 1-2 jab into d-tilt or just about anything else, but anything else other than a dtilt is determined by what you think your opponent is going to do (though even dtilt is questionable). They can DI/move away, interrupt (if they got fast buttons), or flat-out shield your attempts at follow-ups, especially at higher percentages.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Ffamran]

Doc's Jab has enough KB and hitstun to confirm into an Up+B vs. some floaties I think. Worth mentioning (I'll test it more later)

Well, it was a quick check, so I don't know the specifics. I am not going through 50+ characters in depth and some of them should have been obvious or thought about like Toon Link because Link, Shulk's Jab is similar to Ike except Shulk does an roundhouse and an uppercut with the Monado while Ike does a front kick and slams Ragnell down, and Mr. Game & Watch because his Jab is similar to Palutena's. See, sharing is fun since it means less work for everyone.

D3 can jab1/jab2 > grab at lower percents.

Smooth Criminal

I left out characters who were mentioned above.

Is there a list or something on characters that can Jab cancel and ones that can effectively Jab cancel into stuff? So far, most people know about Fox and Link if more people would use him... Anyway, there's also Sheik, Triple D, Luigi, Falco, Ike, Palutena, Samus who apparently has a tip on it, ZSS?, and apparently DK, Rosalina, and Greninja as well. Also, Sonic and Captain Falcon might be able to which might be moot for the Capt. since his Gentleman Jab is good, but considering he could possibly hit confirm to other moves is pretty awesome.

Edit: Add Toon Link to that which makes sense since well... yeah...

Edit 2: Edit Harder: Please, prove me wrong with the characters since it was a check and not an in-depth look. For all I know, Bowser can Jab to Bowser Bomb effectively.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I'm just spit-balling right now. Sorry, Ffamran. lol

Smooth Criminal

 

[HeroMystic]

Damn it, Mario! Stop pushing people forward with your Jab! So far, it might be okay for Down Smash, Dtilt, Ftilt, and Super Jump Punch since it freaking moves people forward making it difficult to grab, repeat Jab, or Utilt. Same goes for Dr. Mario except worse since he has more knockback...

Could've asked me for Mario's jab info. Pretty much, you're doing it wrong. You're using Mario's jab where it lands within his hand or arm. You actually want to jab at the front of his fist. This hitbox does not push his target away from him but actually pops them up. However, it's at frame disadvantage (-2 or so IIRC) so this isn't a reliable set-up for anything other than grab mix-ups.

 

[Ffamran]

I'm just spit-balling right now. Sorry, Ffamran. lol

Smooth Criminal

I actually figured out Triple D's Jab 1/2 to tilts while messing around with him a couple weeks ago and I was like, "Holy crap, he can do that?" Considering Dtilt's range, yeah. It's awesome.

After that, I messed with Sheik and she can do stuff like that, but I don't notice people doing it. Then again... I'm playing on For Glory, so... yeah.

Well, that lead to looking into Sonic and Captain Falcon. Sonic can grab out of his Jab 1/2 which considering his strong throws is pretty good. He can do tilts out of them too and I think Smashes, but I didn't get a chance to check in the heat of battle. As for repeat his Jab, he can like Mario, Pit, and more, but the issue is that after the first set, people get sent back enough where he probably won't be able to connect a third or even second set. Captain Falcon is the one I'm really interested in because while his Gentleman is good, think about being able to hit confirm into an Utilt spike or Dtilt which has more horizontal knockback than his regular Jab 3 or Ftilt. Grab might not be that great, but being able to hit confirm into a spike is pretty gnarly.

Could've asked me for Mario's jab info. Pretty much, you're doing it wrong. You're using Mario's jab where it lands within his hand or arm. You actually want to jab at the front of his fist. This hitbox does not push his target away from him but actually pops him up. However, it's at frame disadvantage (-2 or so IIRC) so this isn't a reliable set-up for anything other than grab or mindgames.

It was also on Bowser so... yeah... I just wanted to check if he can do stuff out of Jab which he can, but how and the specifics, I don't know.

 

[HeroMystic]

It was also on Bowser so... yeah... I just wanted to check if he can do stuff out of Jab which he can, but how and the specifics, I don't know.

In Brawl he absolutely could, to the point where it was guaranteed, and that's how he got most of his damage vs grounded opponents. In Smash 4, not so much.

With Jab 1 you can...

-Grab (Best Choice)
-D-tilt (2nd Best Choice)
-D-Smash (kill set-up)
-Up-B (Um kay)
-F-tilt (lol)

You can use Jab 2 the same way but it's even more of a disadvantage than Jab 1 (like... -7?), so I wouldn't recommend using Jab 2 to mix-up unless you really understand your opponent's habits.

Also, Samus can Jab 2, D-tilt, Pivot Grab, or run away out of Jab 1. F-tilt is way more preferable though.

 

[Dre89]

Little check on Jab canceling, so this is a quick look and nothing in depth. Posted in the Zelda Social and the discussion sort of began there... And there are way too many characters. I left out the ones mentioned above and the Mii Fighters. Also, starting with Diddy, it's all done on Mario.

Damn it, Mario! Stop pushing people forward with your Jab! So far, it might be okay for Down Smash, Dtilt, Ftilt, and Super Jump Punch since it freaking moves people forward making it difficult to grab, repeat Jab, or Utilt. Same goes for Dr. Mario except worse since he has more knockback...

And yeah, Toon Link can Jab cancel too which makes sense since he's toon Link... Y'know, a toon version of Link? As for Little Mac, Jab 1's delay is longer than Jab 2; Jab 2 to Dtilt is pretty wicked since Dtilt hit confirms into Rising Uppercut and KO Punch, Jab 2 can go into Rising Uppercut too... hehe. And yeah, he can grab out of Jab 2 while Ftilt and Utilt might miss, especially Ftilt which could be used to catch someone if they get out of his Gentleman.

Bowser's Jab 1 has knockback and I don't think he can do much aside from Jab 1 to Ftilt and maybe Dash Slam. I'm not sure...

Bowser Jr.'s Jab 1 has less delay to act into other moves than Jab 2, but Jab 2 can be delayed into Jab 1 and Jab 2 again. He can Jab 1 or Jab 2 into tilts and Smashes which I forgot to mention...

Diddy... uh... I think Diddy can Jab lock Captain Falcon with Jab 1 and Jab 2 which can repeat into itself fairly well. Acting into anything else has a longer delay for some reason. I also checked Mario and he can sort of do Jab lock Mario... For those that hate people, please test this.

The Pits can Jab 1 to grab while Jab 2 might need them to run towards to grab. Jab 1 to Ftilt is fairly fast and Jab 2 to Dtilt seems to be faster than out of Jab 1, but I'm not sure.

I'm not getting much success with Robin other than repeating Jab 2 back to Jab 1 and Jab 2. Meta Knight... Meta Knight can repeat Ftilt 1 or Ftilt 2 to Ftilt 1 and 2 and he can Ftilt 1 or Ftilt 2 to Dtilt, Utilt, Up and Down Smashes, and grab. Not that useful, especially with Ftilt 1 into grab since the hit stun isn't great and the delay's noticeable unless I'm doing something wrong.

Cool, Pac-Man can Jab 1 or Jab 2 to tilts or back to Jab 1 easily while Smashes and grab are slower. He can Jab 1 or Jab 2 to Hydrant, Trampoline, and Bonus Fruit, it's kind of funny with Hydrant since he just punches and slaps a fire hydrant down. Oh, and Jab cancel to taunts will be the new metagame.

As expected, Shulk can Jab 1 to Jab 1 or Jab 2 to Jab 1 again like Ike. He can Jab 1 to grab, but the knockback might be much along with the delay, but Jab 1 to Dtilt is nifty compared to his other tilts and Smashes. Jab 1 and Jab 2 can go into Air Slash, but Jab 1 seems to lead into it a bit faster.

Repeating Wii Fit Trainer's Jab 1 is hilarious since she just sticks out her arm and leg repeatedly. She can repeat Jab 1 and 2 fairly well and grabbing be an issue because of her range. Tilts are fine except for Utilt because it's more of a vertical hit rather than a horizontal one; Ftilt might be a good choice since it's fast and has decent range compared to the other tilts, sure, Dtilt has more range, but it's slower. That said, there feels like more delay for them compare to repeating her Jab.

Not exactly fast, but Villager's Jab 1 or 2 can go into tilts and Smashes, but be careful about Utilt , Up and Side Smash. Villager can also Jab 1 or 2 to Axe, Pocket which I guess Villager can hit confirm into a Pocket throw... thing... and Lloid Rocket which is kind of hilarious since Villager slaps a Lloid Rocket in front of him after punching. Grabbing might not be a good idea since it's slow. It makes sense for Villager to be able to Jab into things since Villager's Jab is basically controllable Rapid Jab unlike Meta Knight's. Let's see how Villager can get more broken. Seriously, Villager can Jab to Down Smash. Think about that or hit confirm into Axe.

My boy Ness can Jab 1 and Jab 2 to tilts except for Utilt, Smashes, and grab. He can repeat it too and it feels a bit like using Fox's Jab cancel, reset, lock... thing. Look, he's basically capable of pulling the stuff Luigi can too. Seriously, this kid's grab game... FAAAAAALCO! MOVE YOUR ARMS FASTER! IT'S JAB AND GRAB, IDIOT!

ROB can Jab 1 to stuff too like grab, tilts, Smashes, Gyro, Robo Beam, etc. but the way Mario's landing... Yeah, it might be a bit dangerous if Mario can act of out it.

Huh, I didn't know Duck Hunt had a Gentleman Jab. Yeah, same dealio, Duck Hunt can Jab 1 or 2 into tilts and grab while Smashes are too slow. As for Specials, Duck Hunt can throw Can out which I don't recommend since it might cause Duck Hunt to SD while Clay is slow.

Jigglypuff does the same thing as Kirby, especially with grabbing. Utilt won't hit while Side Smash and Dtilt are a bit slow, so go for Ftilt and maybe Up and Down Smash. Don't bother with Specials, especially Rest. Jigglypuff can repeat Jab as well.

Charizard can Jab repeat Jab 1 and 2, grab out of either of them, use any tilt, but Utilt, Smash, and use Specials, especially Rock Smash and Fly which is iffy since if Charizard knocks the opponent too far, it'll whiff.

Mr. Game & Watch basically pulls of the same thing as Palutena. Jab 1 to anything. So, GimR wannabes, Jab 1 to D-throw and Judge. Just beware that outside from grab and tilts, his Smashes are slower for this purpose while Chef, Judge, Bucket - why would you do this? -, Oil Panic - hit confirm possibly? -, and Fire/Parachute all work.

Lucina and Marth's Jab 1 to anything is slow and the knockback might be much. Dolphin Slash works, though and Dtilt sort of works... Grabbing probably won't because of the knockback and it looks like they have to set their swords before they can do anything other than Jab 2.

Olimar I don't think can do much from Jab. I checked Peach and I don't think she can do much since it's a bit long between actions. Same with Wario. Why is Lucario's Jab like that? Jaysus it's weird; the delay between a free action into say, tilts and grabs are way too long... As for Pikachu, probably not worth it since Pikachu's Jab is weak. Mega Man's Jab being "non-traditional" makes it difficult to do much aside from Jab to Ftilt which might as well be the same move as Jab or Dtilt. Also since there's knockback if Mega Man's close with his Jab - the setting down of his arm is considered a hit, right? - already makes it so he can do much but Jab or move away.

Edit: Derp. Forgot to include what Bowser Jr. could even do after Jab 1 and 2.

Awesome post, jab cancelling is such a good component of the meta.

Any idea what Jr. can do?

 

[Ffamran]

Villager's Jab, though. And Diddy's Jab lock. Have I started even more hatred? Have I found a profitable salt mine? Tune in next time on Smash Ball Z.

Seriously, Villager's Jab to stuff is good. I hope more people delve into Jabs, especially characters like Pac-Man, Wii Fit Trainer, Toon Link, Duck Hunt, Charizard, and more.

Awesome post, jab cancelling is such a good component of the meta.

Any idea what Jr. can do?

Not really aside from say, Jab 1 to tilt, Smash, or grab. I'd like it if people who know explain about their character's Jab or others look into it since we're a community and all.

 

[Unknownkid]

Well, it was a quick check, so I don't know the specifics. I am not going through 50+ characters in depth and some of them should have been obvious or thought about like Toon Link because Link, Shulk's Jab is similar to Ike except Shulk does an roundhouse and an uppercut with the Monado while Ike does a front kick and slams Ragnell down, and Mr. Game & Watch because his Jab is similar to Palutena's. See, sharing is fun since it means less work for everyone.


I left out characters who were mentioned above.


Edit 2: Edit Harder: Please, prove me wrong with the characters since it was a check and not an in-depth look. For all I know, Bowser can Jab to Bowser Bomb effectively.

I guess it will be bad to keep you hanging. I know Swordfighter's Jab Cancel very well. You might want to ask Reserved about Kirby's since he is more knowledgeable in Kirby's mechanics than I am.

Swordfighter
I believe SF still have the Jab Cancel Infinite that Link had. I doubt our version have been patched (not good enough to perform the technique myself) but that is something. Anyways... you can Jab 2 into anything. No, I am serious. Jab 2 -> Grab, Dtilt, Up Smash, Down smash and Shuriken of Light (not recommended since SoL doesn't flinch at that range). Now, less guarantee yet possible include Utilt, Ftilt, Chakram (you can follow up with the Tilted Version), and Gale Strike. You also do Jab 2 -> PP Bair for retreat and if your opponent is sleeping - Reversal Slash/Power Thrust/Fsmash can work.

 

[Ffamran]

Since you said to... @Reserved! Explain thy bulbous, pink warrior's techniques of Jab-play!

 

[Lavani]

I doubt our version have been patched

To be clear, Link's jab wasn't patched either. The diagonal input that gave both crouch and jab was removed on 3DS, so you have to manually crouch then jab instead of holding a diagonal and repeatedly tapping A, but the same end result is still possible (and I'm fairly sure nothing changed on Wii U).

Any idea what Jr. can do?

Jr.'s jab1 seems like it'd set up for tilts or usmash, but even at high percents jab1>dtilt (frame 4 dtilt, for what it's worth) doesn't true combo, and Jr.'s jab1 doesn't lift off the ground, so I feel like anything he could do is liable to be shielded, and his grab is slow with poor reward on throws. Jab2 is laggy and I highly doubt he gets anything off it.

 

[Ffamran]

I guess the main point is that pretty much everyone can do something out of Jab, but how effective depends. So, Fox's is the best example of being able to do anything quickly and effectively while Falco's slightly longer delay between Jab and a free action makes it slower and less effective, but still usable, especially if people don't expect it. Then there's characters like Marth who might not get much out of Jab to anything. Could he Jab to Dolphin Slash or Crescent Slash? Sure, but is it worth it compared to Sheik jabbing to grab? It might be better for Marth to skip the Jab cancel and do something else instead.

 

[Blobface]

Ganondorf jab OP.






To be honest, Ganondorf with Captain Falcon's jab would make Brawl MK look like Melee Pichu.

 

[NairWizard]

Pikachu and other short characters can still duck under the jab and d-tilt, which I personally find hilarious.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I'm sure Yoshi gets a lot of stuff off his jab, but bugger if I'm gonna do it all right now at this time of night.
Here's things you guys can polish the edge of your seats for
https://vine.co/v/OQ5pYTIbFTl

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Pac-Man can use his Fair to jab lock too IIRC.

 

[Jaxas]

I'm sure Yoshi gets a lot of stuff off his jab, but bugger if I'm gonna do it all right now at this time of night.
Here's things you guys can polish the edge of your seats for
https://vine.co/v/OQ5pYTIbFTl

That gets broken by DI, right?

Also, just as a heads up I don't know about other characters but at least Sheik and ZSS (assuming I'm not just doing things horribly wrong...?) can generally get things (tilts, grabs, etc) off of jab cancelling... but it's not true; the followups can be avoided. It's a nice setup to mix things up and punish, though.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

With Rosalina my experience is that jab cancels are mostly not worth it if we're actually talking about the jabs belonging to Rosalina herself. Luma's jab has pretty good frame data for jab cancels and it's often possible to get a few extra jabs from a jab cancel, but you have to be quite careful since Rosa's input window to rapid jab is insanely generous (and Luma's rapid jab in particular is almost always worse than jab 3) and in general Luma's jab 3 is so beastly that I'm hesitant to risk not hitting with it. I do need to toy with the tech more for sure, but I don't think in the long run she'll be on the list of characters for whom it's a really big deal.

Charizard, on the other hand, can jab cancel after his second jab into a grab like a champ. I don't think it's always guaranteed, but it seems to be in practice really hard to avoid and really increases the pay-off of landing a Charizard jab in general with jab being one of Charizard's most important normals in neutral in the first place so this isn't an exotic situation. I unfortunately couldn't get jab cancel usmash to work with him, but I'm not sure if it's because it doesn't work or if I was just being bad and it actually does work with appropriate tech skill. Regardless, I'm quite sure jab cancel is going to be a big deal for Charizard in the future.

 

[Meru.]

I'm sure Yoshi gets a lot of stuff off his jab, but bugger if I'm gonna do it all right now at this time of night.
Here's things you guys can polish the edge of your seats for
https://vine.co/v/OQ5pYTIbFTl

If it's Sheik only I hope it doesn't get patched.

 

[JapanGuy]

If it's Sheik only I hope it doesn't get patched.

Isn't Sakurai working on a patch?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Isn't Sakurai working on a patch?

You are friggin adorable.

I could just pinch your cheeks and take you home with me.

Kids are so cute these days, with their innocence and not having been disappointed by lying devs that crush your dreams and what not.

 

[Shaya]

Yes, just what Sakurai and Nintendo planned all along, all this hatred within the smash 4 community.

Suddenly a shining light from heaven, Sakurai in holy garb with halo. "Mewtwo is here".
And it'll either be in glory or in extreme pain and suffering, all those who said "wait until after Evo?" NUP major game changes NOW. You have 2 days to register your copies of WiiU/3DS before the free mewtwo offer expires.
*eerie ominous music*


Also let's not talk about patches here, ma'dear.

 

[Sinister Slush]

In other news I got a sister code for smash 3ds, so I getting mewtwo for free :3

 

[Mr. Johan]

Robin can't Jab cancel into anything, but it serves its purpose as a Frame 4, Marth-Jab-size gtfo and anti-air option that strings into two of the few Jab KOs in this game, though one of them is only for those who roll in/Fox/Falco.

How I wish Wind Jab linked together properly. =(

Jab 2 also has the benefit of popping them up, so if they jump to try and escape the Fire Jab, they've used their double jump, and Robin can follow them and threaten with a Uair, or chase them down with whatever speed he's got.

 

[Blue Banana]

Olimar I don't think can do much from Jab.

As far as I'm aware, Olimar can't do any jab cancelling. His jab strings into grab at mid/low percents though.

 

[Superbat]

After shock is starting. http://www.twitch.tv/clashtournaments ZeR0's is on right now. ZeR0 legit has no chill though. The phenom guy had a pretty good fox. Managed to take a stock of ZeR0 both of their matches lol.

 

[Smog Frog]

zero bodied him as per usual

i feel like we should pay zero to teach us **** about the game