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Heh, I went ahead and played him. My opponent was from England, and we had about 50-60 frames of lag.
You think that is bad? Every time I hook up my satellite to the Wii-U and try to do an online match the lag is deceptive. Everything seems fine. There is none of the slow motion stuff that happens with normal lag. But then you try to input an input... the input doesn't register until a couple of frames after you inputted it but once it does register it comes out fine. I hate satellite internet.Heh, I went ahead and played him. My opponent was from England, and we had about 50-60 frames of lag.
It was basically unplayable--literally nothing was blockable on reaction. He beat me 2-0 using almost only dash attack, wizkick, and flame choke.
Edit: I can't stress enough how silly it is to have Ganon Flame Choke or wizkick at you in neutral, and you be unable to dodge/block it. Ganon for top tier, new meta!
I mean, that sucks too, but I'm more concerned with the inherent lag of the internet and how totally incompatible that is with fighting games.
The best games I have ever played, no exceptions full stop, are in order:
better yet fight a timber happy Villager as a Timber happy Villager.
I'm proud of you for not mentioning PM at all
PM's a mod tho
lol thats some rough lag. why is it that every competitive player iv played on anthers ladder potato lag, and random for glory smooth as silk.Heh, I went ahead and played him. My opponent was from England, and we had about 50-60 frames of lag.
It was basically unplayable--literally nothing was blockable on reaction. He beat me 2-0 using almost only dash attack, wizkick, and flame choke.
Edit: I can't stress enough how silly it is to have Ganon Flame Choke or wizkick at you in neutral, and you be unable to dodge/block it. Ganon for top tier, new meta!
I just don't feel like it was on the same level of impact in my life. It was a primitive, exploratory prototype--a neat experiment that provided more fun than some other games, but nothing revolutionary and ill-suited for competition in skills I find interesting.
Thanks for the summon, but @san. first alerted me to this possibility. I've used it a couple of times in tournament to good effect. The team is strong, and you can't just choose to fight Charizard instead of Ness to avoid Ness' b-throw because Charizard has a kill throw too (an asset which makes him strong in teams in general).In regards to the whole teams thing, Charizard I highly doubt is the worst character in dubs. In certain teams he'll dominate because of being able to fill up bucket or being able to heal Ness/Gunner quickly and efficiently, etc (shoutouts to @NairWizard here for the idea). In others, he'll perform the role of any stock-tank while his partner can play monster-in-the-closet status. This kind of team synergy is a very viable tactic, so I highly doubt Charizard will be the worst teams character straight up. I have no idea who I would consider to be the worst team partner, but I wouldn't really be bummed if Charizard was my team-mate.
I group all the Smash Bros games together and they are right at number 5 for my top games. Top 4 is dominated by various RPGs though (Super Mario RPG, Fire Emblem, The World Ends With You, and Etrian Odyssey, in that order).
Good list. I'd probably throw in Smash 64, A Link to the Past, and Majora's Mask for good measure. Smash really is the best game, and the only way it can get better is for Nintendo to get around to releasing the super secret edition with perfect balance, lagless online, and playable Ridley/K. Rool, which is sadly only available in heaven and Nintendo's stupid region locking won't let us import it.
TWEWY is super amazing, as are pretty much all of the games being mentioned. There are lots of good games out there!
There's netcode (Rollback based) that can handle lag better than this, it's just not popular to use it for some reason.
Rollback based netcode helps in combo-based games, but the "reaction" mechanics based on blocking your opponents attacks (perfect-shielding, etc. etc.) get screwed up no matter how good the netcode is.
I think fighting games are THE e-sport. Netcode and latency will only improve as technology improves. Team-based games are great, but there is always a space for 1v1 fighting competitions. The potential of the 'all star' dynamic is huge - you root for underdogs, see famous players go against each other, and see how they can bluff/mindgame each other directly. It's a different beast to team competitions, and has a secure spot in the future of esports.
It's only really Nintendo of America doing that, unfortunately. They have nothing to do with game development over in Japan, and I doubt anyone over there actually cares about competitive Smash. And even with NOA, they could just be doing it for the sake of advertising Smash 4 and not much else.
Utterly and completely false, beyond the obvious "Yes, there is room for improvement."
I agree, but the viral nature of team-based games results in magnitudes more people playing them. Every player becomes a marketer trying to get their freinds to play, and it spreads.
While I think Fighting games have potential to become e-sports, they will have to do it without the crutch of the internet.
Not to mention Smash lacks basic regional matchmaking. I, in Toronto, shouldn't be connected with players in Japan for ANY game, let alone a fighting game. But it happens.
pfffff forget people
Ah, okay, all I want to mention if possible (I haven't contributed to the discussion yetLet's keep this about smash guyses.
) is that Tekken is one of the bigger revolutionaries in the competitive gaming scene and what it did for it and pretty much set the precedent for the success of most other modern day fighting games. E-sports as a whole at that time was being driven mostly by that alongside Starcraft and Counterstrike. Ah that's curious, I hadn't considered burst movement options actually. And my perception of 'mobile' has really just been 'able to move around fast' in some form or another, so the rest of this will kinda be me thinking aloud. I think the ability to remove someone else's reaction time from the equation is quite a big deal, and characters like Sonic and Pikachu will do this with 90% of their moveset; I just also find that characters such as Ganny will still have enough mobility and burst to do stuff - wizkick and his faster moves will do a lot for him because he gets more reward off per hit. Of course his overall mobility isn't as strong, but the idea would be that his reward is powerful enough to compensate (though I suppose not really enough to save him from his old weaknesses for the most part).
I actually said "eew" out loud.
The Diddy matchup is completely skewed to his favor however; a single set over an online connection really doesn't stand for much when compared to actual theory and tournament evidence. Diddy can dominate Marth regardless of player skill by virtue of his much better frame data and stage control. The biggest problem with Marth, as has been stated and discussed several times through this thread, is how terribly his numbers got hit in the transition to Sm4sh. His frame data is just to limiting. I don't see Marth anywhere lower than right in the middle of mid tier, but struggle to view his potential further than the very floor of high tier (a tall expectation to begin with). I still see Marth players focusing on his very nerfed air game and on comanding the pace of the battle - an area he won't ever excel at. Rather, as his metagame develops I can see his mobility and mindgames much improved through practical use of tech, but his aggresive game slowing down to favor precision and steady tactical approaches. Marth really needs to know when to attack or commit if he wants to succeed at all; less is more with Marth.
Burst moves would classify as moves that allow you to change positions so quickly that it can often override the opponent's reaction time. Bouncing Fish, Monkey Flip, Phantasm, etc. can often catch you off guard, or at the very least force a hasty reaction that might not be the best option you could have chosen.
