Character Competitive Impressions

[Smooth Criminal]

It's not a matter of superiority. You wanna take pride in your accomplishments, go for it. That's fine.

Just be humble enough to recognize the differences.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Noa.]

I'm sure you can become a pretty decent player by just playing online, but until you place very highly in a lot of large offline tournaments then your skill in relation to the top players is untested and unproven. Online play is great for practice but when recognizing results and player skill at a national level we have to rely on offline tournaments.

 

[DougX]

...I give up debating why Luigi isn't bottom tier at this point, guess I'll just have to start wrecking people online when I get the game

You and me both, mate. :3

 

[Shaya]

The discussion is going off topic a bit. But, among other things, tier lists/general perception at "top level" are going to be based from offline play/in person tournaments.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Going to be real, I KNEW Mario would end up dead centre but he's actually mid high if you go by numbers!(Somewhere around 15-20). DOC is actually mid, he's the 26th character on that list(pretty much dead centre).

Ganondorf and Palutena being bottom together is weird to me(figured it'd be just Dorf there), but I think this week 3 list will have some benefits in that I hope it inspires people who play those low tier characters to find stuff with them and MAKE THEM BETTER! I plan on doing this with Doc and Ganon, although Ganon's really the only bad one of the chars I wanna play.

Still, I don't think it should be the gospel nor do I think it should be entirely disregarded.

Either way glad Mario panned out like I thought he would as of right now, perfect, perfect! Luigi tho...wtf. But if this game is as balanced as it looks right now, it's a good sign that the lowest score for Bottom tier is 5/10 and nothing worse. I consider that to be like, mediocre as opposed to bad. That's crazy if that holds up in this game's lifespan.

Also quick comment on offline vs. online, they are vastly different but not worth lecturing or saying one is worse. Offline is a bit more streamlined but without that player interaction it becomes harder to "predict" what someone's gonna do, whereas offline has more player to player interaction. They're just different fields altogether.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

I'm not going to put much weight in this list until there are more lists done by credible people with credible methods.

 

[ThatLunaticFeline]

Going to be real, I KNEW Mario would end up dead centre but he's actually mid high if you go by numbers!(Somewhere around 15-20). DOC is actually mid, he's the 26th character on that list(pretty much dead centre).

Ganondorf and Palutena being bottom together is weird to me(figured it'd be just Dorf there), but I think this week 3 list will have some benefits in that I hope it inspires people who play those low tier characters to find stuff with them and MAKE THEM BETTER! I plan on doing this with Doc and Ganon, although Ganon's really the only bad one of the chars I wanna play.

Still, I don't think it should be the gospel nor do I think it should be entirely disregarded.

Either way glad Mario panned out like I thought he would as of right now, perfect, perfect! Luigi tho...wtf. But if this game is as balanced as it looks right now, it's a good sign that the lowest score for Bottom tier is 5/10 and nothing worse. I consider that to be like, mediocre as opposed to bad. That's crazy if that holds up in this game's lifespan.

Agreed, I'm just worried that a tier list like this is not boding well for players researching onto which characters will be threats in the metagame. As was the case in Brawl and Melee which were more favourably balanced to top-tier characters, most people would look at tier lists and say "Okay, MK, IC and Falco are the scary ones" and choose to main them. You may argue that the reason we don't see many Kirbies being played in Melee is because he's an inferior character to something like Fox (which he certainly is), but the tier lists certainly don't help in encouraging players to pick up and learn them.

For this reason I'm concerned for the future of unique characters like Palutena and Shulk. Both have very unique playstyles and although it's inevitable the metagame will change in the future the discouragement of low-tier will put the number of people playing these characters to a low, which is not what we as fans want in a game which is shaping up to be the best of the series yet in terms of balance.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Dedicated players will drive any character further by any amount, whether or not it changes their spot on the tiers is one thing, but there will always be stuff.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Agreed, I'm just worried that a tier list like this is not boding well for players researching onto which characters will be threats in the metagame. As was the case in Brawl and Melee which were more favourably balanced to top-tier characters, most people would look at tier lists and say "Okay, MK, IC and Falco are the scary ones" and choose to main them. You may argue that the reason we don't see many Kirbies being played in Melee is because he's an inferior character to something like Fox (which he certainly is), but the tier lists certainly don't help in encouraging players to pick up and learn them.

For this reason I'm concerned for the future of unique characters like Palutena and Shulk. Both have very unique playstyles and although it's inevitable the metagame will change in the future the discouragement of low-tier will put the number of people playing these characters to a low, which is not what we as fans want in a game which is shaping up to be the best of the series yet in terms of balance.

No offense, but if you put that much weight into a tier list, you're doing it wrong. Think for yourself. Play whatever the hell strikes your fancy for whatever reason. The tier list is pretty much irrelevant in this regard. Its main purpose is to gauge character performance in the meta, not act as a totem pole that clearly demarcates winnable/unwinnable match-ups.

But if you're gonna play competitively, understand that your love and adoration for a character is only gonna carry you so far. Be smart about it. Understand the nuances of your character, make them all they can be within the confines of their abilities. Their whole kit is a set of tools waiting to be used, and you're the guiding hand for them.

And if that character doesn't work, then there is no shame in switching to a different one. None. You're not dishonoring anybody or anything by selecting a character that fits you better or has a better kit overall.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Meru.]

Few has been said about Peach so far. IMO she's a very solid character. Her killing problem has been significantly reduced to the extent I could barely call it a problem anymore. She kills well now with her new Fair and her new Fsmash is also incredibly strong. Her moves also do not stale anymore if she floats so she does not need to worry about that anymore. Her Dair combo ability has been reduced somewhat but she can still almost always combo into a Fair or Bair at low to mid percents (50%). Instead her Dtilt and Dthrow seem much stronger combo tools. Her shield pressure has been weakened due to Fair autocanceling much later and if autocanceled to early, it has some lag, although at the moment this may be conpensated somehow since she can cancel the ending lag of her aerial with DownB turnip throw. I don't know exactly how safe this is yet, but it's definitely a helpful tool. Anyway, I think they have made her more of an all-round character this time since her air combos and shield pressure are not as crazy as before, but as an exchange she kills faster and has a better fastfall to reduce her weaknesses such as killing and recovering from above. On top of that, her strong pressure and punishing game is still in the game and it seems she can also edgeguard pretty decently. She does have some bugs though (which are in her advantage) for example the fact that floating aerials don't stale, or that she can cancels the ending lag of her aerials/air dodge by DownB throwing a turnip or, perhaps worst of all, she can cancel hitstun by throwing the turnip with DownB. These things may be removed in the Wii U version and I am guessing at least the DownB bug will be gone. That means no more lag canceling with DownB turnip throws, sadly.

Zelda is... ehh. I don't really know about her. I don't think she is god awful anymore but I'm not particularly impressed by her either. Her new UpB is great and all, but the first hit is hard to hit with and the second hit is super punishable. Her air game is still pretty weak since her Fair and Bair are not at all reliable. Her Dair has improved a lot, but it doesn't have a lot of horizontal range so spacing it is tricky. Other than that she finally has a good grab which helps a lot and all of her tilts are much better now. Her smashes, on the other hand, actually seem to be nerfed rather than buffed. Fsmash is mostly the same, but Usmash's range is much worse and Dsmash is weaker. Furthermore, Din's Fire still sucks and Phantom isn't super good either. She's also light and laggy and not particularly evasive so she won't live very long either (but at least she can recover now!) and her aproaching game is still weak, although perhaps a bit buffed because the game allows you to do titls and smashes easier out of a dash, plus she can actually utilize her grab now. All in all she has some more strengths and less weaknesses than in previous games, but in the end she still has some glaring weaknesses which will likely hold her back.

Ness looks pretty ok. He seems a bit improved from Brawl but not a lot. His range is still good and stuff like Uair, Nair and Bthrow is still powerful. I don't think he's super good but he's not so bad anymore, I think.

Yoshi is an asshole. I hate him already. He's very good. Eggs are annoying as ****, everything he does is damaging, he kills hella early, he actually has options out of shield now and his mobility is crazy.

Duck Hunt Dog is solid but he looks better than he is. Don't get me wrong, he is very good, but his camping isn't THAT strong. He is also somewhat laggy and punishable and I'm not a big fan of his aerial game. He'll be a strong character though since his zoning is still pretty good and he kills early.

I feel Wii Fit Trainer is a bit underrated. They're pretty decent but I feel like their weird hitboxes need some time to get used to. They're not one of the best characters, but I can't imagine them being really low either. They're decently fast, in their attack speed as well as mobility, and some of their moves have quite some range, although admittedly others are quite lacking. Ftilt and Nair should be spammed at all times and they seem to have a very good dash attack too.

 

[Noa.]

Agreed, I'm just worried that a tier list like this is not boding well for players researching onto which characters will be threats in the metagame. As was the case in Brawl and Melee which were more favourably balanced to top-tier characters, most people would look at tier lists and say "Okay, MK, IC and Falco are the scary ones" and choose to main them. You may argue that the reason we don't see many Kirbies being played in Melee is because he's an inferior character to something like Fox (which he certainly is), but the tier lists certainly don't help in encouraging players to pick up and learn them.

For this reason I'm concerned for the future of unique characters like Palutena and Shulk. Both have very unique playstyles and although it's inevitable the metagame will change in the future the discouragement of low-tier will put the number of people playing these characters to a low, which is not what we as fans want in a game which is shaping up to be the best of the series yet in terms of balance.

The majority of newcomers into the smash scene usually start of maining their favorite character regardless of tier. It's only later that they switch to a character that they find more effective, if they end up switching at all. A lot of new players especially seem to be dissuaded from starting with a top tier main because they don't want people to think that their success is only due to their character choice.

 

[epicgordan]

No one's belittling anyone. I can understand what Smooth is saying when an offline experience is an entirely different experience from an online experience. The part that actually made me get what he was talking about was the whole "crowd dynamic." Honestly, playing in front of a lot of people might be pressuring and even overwhelming compared to playing online where it's only you, your sibling or someone on skype that's watching you play. There isn't really that much pressure. I think this probably applies for pretty much any existing video game

He isn't saying that online players are not as good as offline players (but that's usually the case most of the time). It's nothing like that. It only gets really annoying when they brag too much. Also, note how he used =/= and not > or <.

I should know from first-hand experience, having competed in a tournament a little over 3 years ago. It was my first--and to date, my only--official league tournament. I was fully aware of the crowd around me cheering me during the competition, even as me and Toon Link defied the odds to make it all the way to the final round. It remained highly contested with me having the slight edge all throughout the match...until I made a critical error against an Ike user and rushed in too early when we were both on our last stock. Bloody Ike....Still, second place--especially a close second--in my first big competition ain't too shabby. And hey? If I had to lose against my biggest (in more ways than one) rival in the final round and earn his respect, I'd say that'd warrant a well-deserved close second on my part, though it would have been much nicer to have actually won.

Funny enough, I never had to face off against a Meta Knight user in this tournament either. Or, for that matter, Sonic (almost half of the competitors selected him, though none of them were in my division).

I would like to see how these characters fair up this time around. Needless to say, I doubt I will have to worry about Ike anytime soon, but now I get to use Sonic, who ironically enough, was the least popular 3rd party character heading into launch date, and is looking to be the best of the four mascots this time around. Really, Falco's nerfs are the only things that are really hurting me right about now, but I digress.

My mains are Sonic, Toon Link, Lucario, Meta Knight, Pikachu, R.O.B., Falco, and Olimar, btw. Hope all eight of them are at least competitive enough. If not (and I reckon that Falco and Olimar will be lackluster this time around), well, there's always the likes of Greninja I could experiment with among others.

 

[Luigi player]

How does Donkey Kong seem to shape up in this game? Since he never had such a great showing in any Smash game, I just hope this character finally gets a better showing in the newest game..

imo he feels like he could be around mid tier again, probably at the higher end of it though. maybe he can climb a little higher, we'll see.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Zelda is... ehh. I don't really know about her. I don't think she is god awful anymore but I'm not particularly impressed by her either. Her new UpB is great and all, but the first hit is hard to hit with and the second hit is super punishable. Her air game is still pretty weak since her Fair and Bair are not at all reliable. Her Dair has improved a lot, but it doesn't have a lot of horizontal range so spacing it is tricky. Other than that she finally has a good grab which helps a lit and all of her tilts are much better now. Her smashes, on the other hand, actually seem to be nerfed rather than buffed. Fsmash is mostly the same, but Usmash's range is much worse and Dsmash is weaker. Furthermore, Din's Fire still sucks and Phantom isn't super good either. She's also light and laggy and not particularly evasive so she won't live very long either (but at least she can recover now!) and her aproaching game is still weak, although perhaps a bit buffed because the game allows you to do titls and smashes easier out of a dash, plus she can actually utilize her grab now. All in all she has some more strengths and less weaknesses than in previous games, but in the end she still has some glaring weaknesses which will likely hold her back.

Zelda's survivability is among the best in the game. Good recovery, and Up-B in general combined with Zelda's above average aerial control can be easily used to get you out of juggles and edge traps. You should survive to about 160% if you don't make any really outrageously bad plays imo. It's VERY hard for Zelda to get set up on, especially since her DEFENSIVE GAME is very strong. Nobody likes approaching a well-played Zelda.

What holds her back is being limited in neutral. She has no air approach and thus has to entirely play grounded footsies to make her way in, then plays rock/paper/scissors with grab and Dash Attack to get past defenses. Characters that have a lot of run speed to rush her down and run away, or characters who can outrange her are uphill battles.

Probably mid tier. I see her as being a viable character, when three of her most important weaknesses were addressed. Zelda first had a terrible recovery, secondly she didn't have the mobility to kill you at long range if you played gay, and third her grab was tether grab slow on startup. The first two problems are solved by Zelda's improved Up-B, and the last one is just apparent by her grab being normalized.

Oh also, landing and edge mechanics in this game further prevent people from turtling against Zelda, which is also a massive buff. Zelda is a character you should be extremely afraid to land against, because if she knows where you're going to land and you're at 100%, you DIE.

Zelda in this game survives a long time and hits hard. She just has to work hard to open you up, but is good enough at footsies to potentially make it happen.

 

[Meru.]

You quoted my post wrong. Anyway, from what I have been seeing and playing, Zelda doesn't survive particularly long at all. She is light, a bit floaty, her attacks are slow and laggy, meaning she's quite unsafe at times, her mobility isn't spectacular and her air game is also pretty weak so being thrown in the air is often a bad position to be in for her. Pretty much the only really good thing about her survivability is her recovery, which has improved a lot and also benefits from the removal of edgehogging. I feel like her surivivability is average at the very best and if it's good, then at least half of the cast is still better.

I don't know enough about how good other characters are relatively, but if I were to rank her, I would probably rank her low tier-ish, but not awfully low anymore.

 

[A2ZOMG]

You quoted my post wrong. Anyway, from what I have been seeing and playing, Zelda doesn't survive particularly long at all. She is light, a bit floaty, her attacks are slow and laggy, meaning she's quite unsafe at times, her mobility isn't spectacular and her air game is also pretty weak so being thrown in the air is often a bad position to be in for her. Pretty much the only really good thing about her survivability is her recovery, which has improved a lot and also benefits from the removal of edgehogging. I feel like her surivivability is average at the very best and if it's good, then at least half of the cast is still better.

I don't know enough about how good other characters are relatively, but if I were to rank her, I would probably rank her low tier-ish, but not awfully low anymore.

You want me to get into specifics? Fine. Be that way.

Zelda is slow moving, but her attacks are not "slow and laggy". Quite the opposite.

Zelda has one of the best Jabs in the game which has both a fast startup, basically no ending lag, and starts combos. Zelda also has an extremely strong D-tilt which similarly is fast on startup and ending lag, has above average range, and also starts combos on hit.

Zelda's aerials aren't slow except for U-air. They're primarily unsafe to use due to situational hitboxes, though max range F-air/B-air are safe on block.

F-smash is blockable on reaction, but completely safe on block and rarely whiff punishable by grabs except by the very fastest characters.

These things along with her above average grab range make Zelda's defensive game quite a bit above average. She's really good at countering approaches and keeping people out. That part of her game is in fact safer than most characters. Zelda sitting on a lead

She is PRIMARILY unsafe when she's approaching, due to her lack of aerial pressure, so the main constant risk in Zelda's gameplan is playing Rock/Paper/Scissors with Dash Attack/Grab on defensive opponents.

And no, she more likely outlasts over half the cast in this game. You got thrown upwards? No problem. Not everyone in this game has a tool that gets you out of edge traps and juggles FOR FREE. Not everyone in this game has a defensive game that consists of a move that can't be powershielded that is also COMPLETELY safe on block in ADDITION to strong pokes that can convert into combos and an above average grab range. A well played Zelda should be one of the more difficult characters in this game to kill.

Why was Jigglypuff top tier in Melee? Had the best survivability in the game after Peach and Samus, and was able to punish harder than either of them. Why was Link bottom tier in Brawl? His punishes were average at best and he was easily gimped. Obviously I'm making a somewhat extreme statement, but my point is you are very misguided in highlighting Zelda's low weight as a reason she won't be surviving long without factoring the rest of her defensive options. Not being vulnerable to traps >>> Weight for survivability.

Though she's probably not high tier either way. I'd say she's mid. Her gameplan is actually pretty complete and well rounded, even if it's not extremely overwhelming. She has strong survivability and strong potential to KO. She's just slightly below average in neutral, but has a very easy time getting back to neutral.

 

[TTYK]

Zelda's survivability is among the best in the game. Good recovery, and Up-B in general combined with Zelda's above average aerial control can be easily used to get you out of juggles and edge traps. You should survive to about 160% if you don't make any really outrageously bad plays imo. It's VERY hard for Zelda to get set up on, especially since her DEFENSIVE GAME is very strong. Nobody likes approaching a well-played Zelda.

What holds her back is being limited in neutral. She has no air approach and thus has to entirely play grounded footsies to make her way in, then plays rock/paper/scissors with grab and Dash Attack to get past defenses. Characters that have a lot of run speed to rush her down and run away, or characters who can outrange her are uphill battles.

Probably mid tier. I see her as being a viable character, when three of her most important weaknesses were addressed. Zelda first had a terrible recovery, secondly she didn't have the mobility to kill you at long range if you played gay, and third her grab was tether grab slow on startup. The first two problems are solved by Zelda's improved Up-B, and the last one is just apparent by her grab being normalized.

Oh also, landing and edge mechanics in this game further prevent people from turtling against Zelda, which is also a massive buff. Zelda is a character you should be extremely afraid to land against, because if she knows where you're going to land and you're at 100%, you DIE.

Zelda in this game survives a long time and hits hard. She just has to work hard to open you up, but is good enough at footsies to potentially make it happen.

Um, I didn't say that, why did you quote me?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Um, I didn't say that, why did you quote me?

Dumb things from drafts. Will fix that.

 

[TTYK]

Dumb things from drafts. Will fix that.

Ok, lol I dont sound nearly that intelligent.

 

[A2ZOMG]

I'm definitely not a fan of Smashboards saving drafts of posts that I started to type. Sometimes I change my mind about what things I think are relevant to quote and then it's a pain to remember to remove the stuff that I decided I didn't need.

On the topic of character competitive impressions though, I kinda want to say that Rosalina and Duck Hunt are potentially the most matchup polarizing characters in the game...in terms of the types of options they're able to limit.

I mean for one, they have a lot of really dumb zoning tricks that obviously work well on large characters. If anybody makes characters POSSIBLY unviable due to counterpicks, I'm placing suspicions on them.

 

[FlareHabanero]

...You know, you could always, I don't know, use the R button to pull up a shield of some sort instead of ramming face first into projectiles. Power shield your way through those projectiles, and don't hesitate doing so. That's a universal tactic every character can use, and not even dwelling into character specifics like super armor or reflectors.

Getting by projectile spamming is a skill gate for newbies, not just in Super Smash Bros. either but fighting games in general.

 

[ThatLunaticFeline]

Suddenly, the thread goes silent as everyone gets the game...

My very early opinions are very positive. I think Shulk that despite being tiered so low in the Japanese list is really a force to be reckoned with when a player knows how to manipulate the arts well, and against certain characters he's an absolute beast. Shiek is almost definitely one of the best characters for me - she feels almost as fast as Melee Shiek - and her matchups (from what I have seen) are ridiculous. Meanwhile, I think Bowser was a little overrated but he's still very strong. Doctor Mario is, very sadly, not as good as I was hoping him to be, but his Doctor Tornado sits him just above standard Mario for me. Little Mac is as much of a terror as he's getting hyped up to be, but certain characters like Pacman don't have too much trouble. Speaking of Pacman, he's a nice solid character - maybe not one of the best, but comfortably strong. Marth's tipper in this game seems easier to hit - is that just me? - which makes Luciana seem inferior in comparison. Lucario and Fox have been my two most-played outside of Shulk and Doc, and both of them really could go places in this metagame. This is the same for Yoshi - his dair racks up RIDICULOUS % on heavier characters.

Now for the worse characters. Kirby doesn't seem altogether too strong now, the lack of any incredible Neutral Bs save for DHD and to an extent Bowser Jr certainly doesn't help his case. Palutena is (quite surprisingly) a little bad too... those tilts are so slow! Sonic doesn't seem to have recieved many buffs (although he might be OK, this is just very early impressions) and Pikachu, Megaman, Ike, Olimar and Link haven't swayed me either.

However, in comparison to the strong feelings of good balance from characters like ROB, Pit, Wario and Greninja these faults are quite minor, and who knows? I might be entirely wrong and everything is perfect. Only time will tell!

 

[Shog]

Note about Shulk: I got 750m in Homerun Contest because of Shulks abilities. The buffs he gets are crazy, and some attacks have insane range. The only thing about Shulk is that I have not find one "combo" yet except jab.

 

[Blue Warrior]

I might be entirely wrong and everything is perfect. Only time will tell!

Nothing's ever perfect in balance. The important thing is whether it's close.

 

[DarkStar64]

I'm disappointed with Ike so far I certainly wasn't expecting him to be high-tier but I thought he would be at least mid-tier like in Brawl. Any other Ike mains care to chime in? I'm curious to see what others think of him regarding current consensus and possible future potential.

 

[san.]

He seems fine to me. He can do anything out of neutral air, combo throws into aether and aerials up to 70% or so. Utilt was buffed a lot. Fair was nerfed in the lower diagonal angle, but it's easy to wall of pain with it offstage. Anything specific you're having trouble with?

 

[Funkermonster]

Speaking of Ike, I don't play him and never did but I'm just wondering: can he still pull of his amazing jab combos he had in Brawl? Is his Jab still that good?

 

[A2ZOMG]

...You know, you could always, I don't know, use the R button to pull up a shield of some sort instead of ramming face first into projectiles. Power shield your way through those projectiles, and don't hesitate doing so. That's a universal tactic every character can use, and not even dwelling into character specifics like super armor or reflectors.

Getting by projectile spamming is a skill gate for newbies, not just in Super Smash Bros. either but fighting games in general.

Firstoff, you can't simply powershield against Duck Hunt. Clay Pigeon is multihit. Furthermore Dynamite does not have a telegraphed detonation time. Furthermore when you shield, you stop running. Makes you much more vulnerable to footsies when your mobility is limited by zoning. What's Bowser gonna do when he gets past the spam when all it takes for Duck Hunt to reset the situation is space an aerial or grab?

Then there's Rosalina's dumb puppeteer tricks where once Luma is out which can control insane amounts of space.

So no, powershielding doesn't automatically make projectile zoning useless.

Speaking of Ike, I don't play him and never did but I'm just wondering: can he still pull of his amazing jab combos he had in Brawl? Is his Jab still that good?

You can't really Jab cancel with Ike in this game. It's just better to finish your Jab combo for 12%.

 

[mimgrim]

Speaking of Ike, I don't play him and never did but I'm just wondering: can he still pull of his amazing jab combos he had in Brawl? Is his Jab still that good?

Nope.

Ike's not the great. He if mostly nerfed from Brawl with little to no buffs. I heard he has good custom moves, though, but I haven't gotten them yet.

 

[san.]

Ike can only combat walk and jab1->something easily. You can't buffer a crouch for jab cancels and it seems to have less hitstun.

 

[DarkStar64]

He seems fine to me. He can do anything out of neutral air, combo throws into aether and aerials up to 70% or so. Utilt was buffed a lot. Fair was nerfed in the lower diagonal angle, but it's easy to wall of pain with it offstage. Anything specific you're having trouble with?

I guess I just have to experiment more and figure him out with the new game I'm used to PM Ike (never really played Brawl much) so this version is gonna take some getting used to.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I don't really play him too much but Sonic is ridiculous. He was just straight up buffed from Brawl immensely.

 

[san.]

I guess I just have to experiment more and figure him out with the new game I'm used to PM Ike (never really played Brawl much) so this version is gonna take some getting used to.

That's probably it, each version's playstyle is entirely different from my short experience in PM.

 

[Frolossus]

i currently like how peach feels but i think her kill power is pretty poor. still trying to get a feel for rosalina right now.

 

[Yonder]

I'm just going to throw out there that I think Greninja is the best in the game.
Bowser is impossible to kill, but isn't top 3 or anything. More like High tier.
Palutena with her default moveset isn't all that great...she takes FOREVER to kill with too.
I don't understand why people are raving so much over Sonic, but I only played a few matches with him. This also applies with Yoshi. He definitely doesn't feel like "top 2" like the Japanese say.
Charizard's Flare blitz is great...don't know about the rest of Charizard. Lol.
Ike feels weaker.
Samus feels slower.
I can finally solidify Luigi is slightly, slightly better. Just different with the weaker recovery [unless you use customs]. Dair spike is beautiful.
Shulk is going to be super technical, same as Rosalina, but both will be great. Not top 3 though, both are seeming more high tier. Rosalina's range is pretty great with Luma, but nothing else is too too amazing.
I don't really like Bowser Jr's kill abillity.
Wario feels pretty solid.
Falco's not bad, but I don't get how people are saying his ground game is amazing and all.

These are first few hour impressions. I haven't even tried the whole roster yet.

 

[micstar615]

After playing online all day, here are my impressions:

Sheik is really good, she's got something she can do in nearly every situation, she's just a monster on stage and off stage.

Zelda isn't really that great, she's a bit more viable this time around but she's still got major problems in her offensive game, she can't force approaches, and a lot of her moves are punishable. Dins and Phantom are pretty bad.

Little Mac, in the right hands is a beast. He's just so fast and can rack up damage so easily. The key is not to be reckless with him and to pressure your opponent till you find an opening and smash em around, and for Mac, finding an opening isn't too difficult (unlike Zelda). So has anyone noticed that SO MANY people pick Little Mac online? :/

Rosalina is becoming one of my favourite characters, she's so VERSATILE. Her range and shenanigans with Luma are really great, she can rack up damage quite well if played right.

Robin isn't as good as I thought, I'm sure he's got a lot of potential but he just seems really slow and predictable to me. I'm hoping his meta develops and this isn't the case, he's very fun to play as.

 

[OFY]

Zero Suit has been buffed in all the right ways. Her oos upb has potential to kill at 85-90% on light characters, it's ridic.

 

[micstar615]

Also wanted to add: I think Wii Fit Trainer is being overlooked, she's pretty strong and fast and her projectiles are pretty good too, her damn sun salutation can be charged and stored, has ko potential and it heals her when it hits the opponent (why couldn't they give Zelda a projectile like that )

 

[Yonder]

Also wanted to add: I think Wii Fit Trainer is being overlooked, she's pretty strong and fast and her projectiles are pretty good too, her damn sun salutation can be charged and stored, has ko potential and it heals her when it hits the opponent (why couldn't they give Zelda a projectile like that )

I agree, the Wii Fit trainer has a good projectile. I think it's a bit of a pain pulling off breathing though during battle, and WFT has awkward hitboxes. Recovery is ok..balance between horizontal and vertical, no extreme in either category...

I'm also going to bring up Pac Man. Very solid B moves [Though I prefer "fire hydrant"] and he's nimble, hard to hit with a fantastic recovery. He is a bit on the weak side KO wise though. Smashes have nice range, or is it because he's shorter and the ghosts make it normal range...either way. he's super fun [although that's irrelevent in competitive play]. I could see a high mid, low high for Pac Man here.

 

[Chinaux]

Oh, what the heck? I'm going to post my own personal tier list just for the fun of it, and based on my own first impressions (as well as a hint of general consensus):

Top Tier:

High Tier:

High-Mid Tier:

Mid Tier:

Mid-Low Tier:

Low Tier:

Bottom Tier:

This tier list took into consideration custom moves given the growing consensus being to make them a part of the meta game. If I did not do so, then this tier list would look drastically different.

Anyways, I only did this just for fun; the list overall wouldn't look so neat if I was being completely serious. I am just one guy, so if you feel that the characters ranked above have enough redeeming virtues concerning matchups, please discuss.

I doubt custom moves would be allowed in competitive. I sort of fixed up the tier list you made, or at least in my eyes how it should be.
Little Mac should absolutely not be top tier. His recoveries are god awful, and he has many weaknesses. And anyways, i know this is going to be way off, but it's way too early to decide tiers like this.