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Changes to Charizard in Ver. 1.0.6

MasterExocuter

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What? I've tested it out myself, it's been buffed. Don't listen to reddit.
I feel the same way. Everything feels a bit smoother.


Uthrow does 11 damage now. It is a buff.
I'd check for yourself. Whenever I execute an Up Throw, I get the 11 damage. Where's Reddit's source on this?
Yeah sorry about that, I messaged the guy who compiled all the info on reddit telling him there was a mistake. he still insists that it is busted though... I guess that's okay that Charizard got a buff afterall, but I'm still sad that Bowser got knockback increases

Hopefully Charizard's survivability will help him move up on the tier list now that Hoo Hah isn't a thing anymore. Maybe the decreased Uair knockback will allow Charizard to get nair trades at lower percentages.
 

Steeler

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Can anyone else test dthrow kill percents? I am 100% sure that I have tested it and had a slight reduction in knockback, but Thinkaman did not see a difference. Lightning will show up a few percent after it used to.
 

Davregis

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 11, 2014
Messages
182
omg.......... so much placebo from you daft lizards, smh
eyy man
just hoping we'd get lucky with some buffs after too long in the lower tiers

as it is, I'd say he needs a buff one more time
 
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Vakyoom

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 15, 2015
Messages
20
Hey guys, i could've sworn i had an account here but i had to remake it apparently.... nice...

Anyway, i've done a bunch of Testing to compare to my % and KO range notes from zard from 1.0.4(since he got no changes in 1.0.5 as far as i know this should be an easy side-by-side) and i've found quite a few more buffs that slipped thru the cracks...

All of my original and new testing is done vs Mario on FD in training....

*Flare blitz was already touched on, but 1% extra damage isn't a big deal.

* Uthrow was confirmed too! An increase from 8% total to 8% on ascent and 3% on impact(11% total!). Doesn't mean i'll want to use it but sure, it's a nice touch up.

* U smash still hits for the same amount despite some peoples claims(16% fresh, 22% charged), KOs at the same %'s and doesn't feel any faster/more efficient.

* B Up(Fly) does the same damage but it KOs at 112% on mid-ground FD vs 123% in my old notes. Confirmed as KO @ 123% on 1.0.5 3ds! CONFIRMED!!! YAY!!

* Fair has a new sweet spot at the tip of the move(It seems this sweet spot is just the old inside sweet spot being switched to the edge of the attack). KO's at 107% vs my old values of 133% with the sweet spot for each version at the edge of FD.

Fixes to the hit box on Fair increase the Knockback %'s with out touching the damage(. It appears they swapped the early sweet spot KO values with the later frames of the attack to make for a stronger hit when you catch the enemy with a max-range Fair(Feels like range matters but it's really just making sure you hit on frame 10-11 of the move, as opposed to the old sweet spot of Frame 8-9), Knockback values may have been adjusted(to achieve KO's at lower %'s than appear in 1.0.5). In addition to the sweet-spot swap, the slashing arc appears a little more crisp and detailed vs 1.0.5!! cool!

To double confirm the Fair i tested with percentages from spawn location. 1.0.5 will not KO with Fair below 156%(155% will not be far enough without DI)... As of 1.0.6 you can now KO mario from as low as 115% from his spawn location on FD training mode... KNOCKBACK INCREASE PENDING(though it seems likely), SWEET SPOT FRAME-SWAP CONFIRMED!!! YAY!!

* Nair has less lag at the end, as long as you do the Nair as soon as you short hop(Like old school falco lazer-walking) you can shield as soon as you hit the ground. It was like this on 1.0.5 apparently, w/e lol

Possible conditional changes, need to be confirmed

* Down B(Rock Smash) KO's 1% sooner but that's debatable as a buff, could also be because dmg varies from 19-24% based on placement lol.

* Ftilt does the same damage but KO's at 121% at the edge vs 125% from my old notes. BUSTED in side-by-side, mario lands at the same spot on the map after getting back from the ledge. KO's at same percentages from that same spot in the 2 versions.

* Bthrow and Dthrow get a mini buff! Bthrow KO's at 162% vs 164% at the edge(after both you and mario get up off the ledge) and Dthrow KO's at 128% on stages edge vs 130% when side by side testing with a 1.0.5 3ds. Slight buffs are nice!

* Fsmash does about 1-1.5% more damage when fully charged And also has a knockback sweet spot at the center of his head as opposed to the start of his neck, it appears as thought they've switched where the sweet spot was before. Uncharged KO's at 91% @ center stage vs 95% with the head, and the start of the neck now KO's at 95% instead of 91%. I'm still testing this to confirm, the sweet spot seems to change with every attack....

* D smash appears to KO about 2% later than 1.0.5(126% @ center stage vs 128% current) when the sweet spot is hit(about grab range away from your opponent)

Most of the situational changes may be figured out with Data mining but the Changes to Fair and Up B KO %'s are CONFIRMED!!

http://smashboards.com/threads/mewt...ted-wed-11pm-pst.398902/page-22#post-19000834

LONG LIVE THE ZARD!
 
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ZephyrZ

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I kind of want to help you guys test this stuff out, but whenever I start up the game on the Wii U or 3DS, I find myself goofing around with Mewtwo.

I guess I'm making this post in-part so that I auto-watch this thread and don't miss anything important...though it seems there isn't a whole lot to miss. The U-Throw and Flare Blitz changes are things I had already noticed when waiting for my Mewtwo codes...

Anywho, it's pretty awesome to see U-Throw get any sort of buff. I was hoping they'd give it less knockback+more hitstun for combos or more knockback to set up for juggles, but it's still pretty cool to have an excuse to use it.
Why is a character considered one of the worst getting any nerfs at all?
Don't you know how OP Charizard is? All he has to do is spam Flare Blitz! It's just not fair in the laggy, 4-player free-for-all you cheap Charizard mains always play in.

I'm tired of people using cheap characters like him, Shulk, and Little Mac. They all need to be nerfed badly.
[/sarcasm]
 
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Vakyoom

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 15, 2015
Messages
20
Yea i don't have Mewtwo, my codes got messed up and i doubt nintendo will reimburse me or whatever.... not like it's expensive or anything honestly... still sucks..


I'm still doing side-by-side confirms to see that all my info above is correct. I'll strike-out anything that i find to be incorrect and explain why.
 

Kirbizard

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Joined
Apr 16, 2014
Messages
71
We got buffs? WE GOT BUFFS! \:D/

I'm just glad we didn't only get the Flare Blitz nerf and buff to a throw which still seems pretty useless in comparison to the others. At least it looks cool and does actual damage now.
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
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UpB was already amazing so seeing it buffed is great. Fair buff is VERY nice.
 

TerraSky

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Okay. Slightly less disappointed.

I still want my airspeed buff...
 

DrChops

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Hey guys, i could've sworn i had an account here but i had to remake it apparently.... nice...

Anyway, i've done a bunch of Testing to compare to my % and KO range notes from zard from 1.0.4(since he got no changes in 1.0.5 as far as i know this should be an easy side-by-side) and i've found quite a few more buffs that slipped thru the cracks...

All of my original and new testing is done vs Mario on FD in training....

*Flare blitz was already touched on, but 1% extra damage isn't a big deal.

* Uthrow was confirmed too! An increase from 8% total to 8% on ascent and 3% on impact(11% total!). Doesn't mean i'll want to use it but sure, it's a nice touch up.

* U smash still hits for the same amount despite some peoples claims(16% fresh, 22% charged), KOs at the same %'s and doesn't feel any faster/more efficient.

* B Up(Fly) does the same damage but it KOs at 112% on mid-ground FD vs 123% in my old notes. Confirmed as KO @ 123% on 1.0.5 3ds! CONFIRMED!!! YAY!!

* Fair has a new sweet spot at the tip of the move(It seems this sweet spot is just the old inside sweet spot being switched to the edge of the attack). KO's at 107% vs my old values of 133% with the sweet spot for each version at the edge of FD.

Fixes to the hit box on Fair increase the Knockback %'s with out touching the damage(. It appears they swapped the early sweet spot KO values with the later frames of the attack to make for a stronger hit when you catch the enemy with a max-range Fair(Feels like range matters but it's really just making sure you hit on frame 10-11 of the move, as opposed to the old sweet spot of Frame 8-9), Knockback values may have been adjusted(to achieve KO's at lower %'s than appear in 1.0.5). In addition to the sweet-spot swap, the slashing arc appears a little more crisp and detailed vs 1.0.5!! cool!

To double confirm the Fair i tested with percentages from spawn location. 1.0.5 will not KO with Fair below 156%(155% will not be far enough without DI)... As of 1.0.6 you can now KO mario from as low as 115% from his spawn location on FD training mode... KNOCKBACK INCREASE PENDING(though it seems likely), SWEET SPOT FRAME-SWAP CONFIRMED!!! YAY!!

* Nair has less lag at the end, as long as you do the Nair as soon as you short hop(Like old school falco lazer-walking) you can shield as soon as you hit the ground. It was like this on 1.0.5 apparently, w/e lol

Possible conditional changes, need to be confirmed

* Down B(Rock Smash) KO's 1% sooner but that's debatable as a buff, could also be because dmg varies from 19-24% based on placement lol.

* Ftilt does the same damage but KO's at 121% at the edge vs 125% from my old notes. BUSTED in side-by-side, mario lands at the same spot on the map after getting back from the ledge. KO's at same percentages from that same spot in the 2 versions.

* Bthrow and Dthrow get a mini buff! Bthrow KO's at 162% vs 164% at the edge(after both you and mario get up off the ledge) and Dthrow KO's at 128% on stages edge vs 130% when side by side testing with a 1.0.5 3ds. Slight buffs are nice!

* Fsmash does about 1-1.5% more damage when fully charged And also has a knockback sweet spot at the center of his head as opposed to the start of his neck, it appears as thought they've switched where the sweet spot was before. Uncharged KO's at 91% @ center stage vs 95% with the head, and the start of the neck now KO's at 95% instead of 91%. I'm still testing this to confirm, the sweet spot seems to change with every attack....

* D smash appears to KO about 2% later than 1.0.5(126% @ center stage vs 128% current) when the sweet spot is hit(about grab range away from your opponent)

Most of the situational changes may be figured out with Data mining but the Changes to Fair and Up B KO %'s are CONFIRMED!!

http://smashboards.com/threads/mewt...ted-wed-11pm-pst.398902/page-22#post-19000834

LONG LIVE THE ZARD!
Great work man! It's appreciated!
 

Mjolnir/Hunter101

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i suppose that's why zard felt so good in my 1v1 FG rounds last night. Granted i never bothered to fool around in training mode, so most of these percents i didn't know until i read about them, especially the increased Flare blitz recoil. This might be from training myself not to carelessly use FB, though.
 

Davregis

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it ain't the matchup thread, but what do you guys think of Mewtwo?
 

ZephyrZ

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it ain't the matchup thread, but what do you guys think of Mewtwo?
Mewtwo is really tough to use.

Charizard has no problem killing Mewtwo early; however, Charizard also has a hard time surviving for a long time, since killing early is one of Mewtwo's specialties. Zard's huge hurtbox especially makes Two's incredibly dangerous Up-Smash signficantly easier to land.

Mewtwo is vulnerable to juggles, however, and Zard's powerful recovery moves help scare Two from edgeguarding him, so I'd say Zard has the favorable mach up in this one.
mewtwo is garbage
Garbage is pushing it in this game. Low-tier, sure. I'm fairly confident he'll be at the bottom of the tier list this time, and I don't see him winning any large-scale tournaments.

But he's great at edge guarding and has some pretty good kill options. Terrible weight and awesome kill power make him really high-risk high-reward. He kills early, he dies early. But he's got some cool tricks, and so he's usable.
 

RadianB

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Mewtwo's weight does hold him back big time, dying at 80% is just terrible. I don't think Charizard has a favourable match up against him mainly due to his chargeable projectile. Anyone with that gives Charizard a tough time.
 

ZephyrZ

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Shadow Ball isn't THAT big of a deal. It certainly works against him, sure, but not so much to change the entire matchup for him. Spammable projectiles, I feel, are more problematic.

I think it's fairly even, but slightly leaning towards Mewtwo just 'cause Zard specializes in juggles.
 

Leety

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Mewtwo's weight does hold him back big time, dying at 80% is just terrible. I don't think Charizard has a favourable match up against him mainly due to his chargeable projectile. Anyone with that gives Charizard a tough time.
Honestly, a single nuke feels easy for Charizard. Just popping a single shield to get in close within the comfort zone is easy to do (ZZS is the exception due to having other tools.) It's those spammy, able to control the field projectiles like Pikachu's which give me a lot more problems.

For Zard vs Mewtwo MU, I'm a bit more concerned that Mewtwo's recovery options will shut down Zard's great edgeguarding game. We're just going to have to play the juggle game instead being a light and floaty character. Need to take some time to fight an actual Mewtwo user, but that's my speculation.

However, I've ultimately decided to use my other main for most Mewtwo MUs, Rosaluma, as I feel she pretty much has the tools to shut down Mewtwo very easily.
 
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ZephyrZ

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Actually, the more I play Mewtwo, the more this matchup feels even to me. He's air dodge, Confusion, Shadow Ball glide, and Teleport give him a lot of mind game options he can use to avoid juggles.
 

UberMadman

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Just remember that some attacks do 1% less in training mode than an actual match. It's some weird glitch they never fixed. Rock Smash is one of those moves. It does 29% in training mode and 30% in a real match.
It's not a glitch, Training mode in Brawl and Smash 4 just doesn't use Freshness/Staleness. Normally if you don't use a move for a while, it gets a 5% freshness bonus. This doesn't apply in training mode.
 

-LzR-

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You have been noticed. Would like a cup of coffee and a back massage while at it?
 

KuroganeHammer

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Ahhhhh that would be great.

So I'll just start by debunking the supposed buff to Fly. It seems to do the same amount of knockback with the same trajectory, so I dunno how people are getting massive kill percent differences.
 

-LzR-

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Sounds like a great idea. I've been avoiding the game after the patch until we can get rid of these placebobuffs.
 

KuroganeHammer

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P.S. I'm not checking anything that hasn't reportably (Is that a word?) been changed.

Analyzing video now...
 

Vakyoom

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Ahhhhh that would be great.

So I'll just start by debunking the supposed buff to Fly. It seems to do the same amount of knockback with the same trajectory, so I dunno how people are getting massive kill percent differences.
Side-by-side comparisons by myself and Thinkaman showed that Fly KO's about 13% sooner. I wouldn't call that massive.

The massive KO % changes are to Fair. the last frames of the move can KO 30-50% sooner. That's the big one.
 
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KuroganeHammer

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Ok, so this is cool:

Dtilt hits 9-??, FAF 31

Down from 11-12, FAF 33

Side-by-side comparisons by myself and Thinkaman showed that Fly KO's about 13% sooner. I wouldn't call that massive.

The massive KO % changes are to Fair. the last frames of the move can KO 30-50% sooner. That's the big one.
That's nice but doesn't stop the Fly "change" from being ~fantasy~
 
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-LzR-

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Dtilt confirmed 2 frames faster? Holy crap that's great, it was already our best tilt.
 

Vakyoom

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How is a clear increasae in knockback in side-by-side tests fantasy?

If you can't get a KO at 124% in 1.0.5 but you get them as low as 112% in 1.0.6.... then that's a thing lol.

A Dtilt change would be nice but i'll wait for the data-mine to see whatt's really different. I will say it feels faster but ya know, fantasy lol

Keep testing though, i hope we find more goodies
 
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KuroganeHammer

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How is a clear increasae in knockback in side-by-side tests fantasy?

If you can't get a KO at 124% in 1.0.5 but you get them as low as 112% in 1.0.6.... then that's a thing lol.

A Dtilt change would be nice but i'll wait for the data-mine to see whatt's really different. I will say it feels faster but ya know, fantasy lol
Except, see, I actually know what I'm talking about.

I have literally hundreds of examples of smash data.

It gets to the point where people generally trust what I say. :secretkpop:

I'm just going to make the assumption of dtilt being 9-10 from 11-12.

I also think the KBG for the 11% hit and 12% hit has been swapped, prepatch it was 45/80 11%, 25/100 12%

The knockback for the 12% hit now is almost the same as the prepatch 11% hit (Tiny bit stronger), whereas the 11% hit has quite a bit more KB than the 12% hit prepatch. I would make the assumption that they've either been swapped or are within 5 of each other.

Fly, again, has the same amount of knockback. An angle change is possible, but not likely.
 
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-LzR-

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Good stuff Aerodrome. Hopefully you have the time to check the rest of the moves, including customs too. I would like to help but I don't think I have the equipment to do that.
 

Steeler

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The only things I saw were fair (broke that news actually), dthrow, and rising cyclone. Cyclone is weird so it is likely ****, but I 100% saw a difference with dthrow. Maybe cpu di or something can explain it but regardless, please check those two ty master

And yeah, i saw no change with fly myself. Maybe test the height of fly...? Something must explain the "change"
 
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