Changes to Charizard in Ver. 1.0.6

[RadianB]

Here's some changes I can confirm:
Buff: Up Throw does 11% damage and slightly more knockback, it used to do 8% before the patch.
Nerf: Flare blitz has 1% more recoil damage when activated. So doing the move without hitting someone does 5% damage to yourself. It used to do 4% before the patch.

I'll post any more changes I discover if there are any.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Any changes to Flare Blitz's knockback?

 

[ggamer77]

Any changes to Flare Blitz's knockback?

Knockback seems to be the same.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

What about knockback for the other moves?

 

[Steeler]

Confirming the two changes in OP. No other damage changes noted, so anything else would be a knockback thing.

 

[Leety]

Here's some changes I can confirm:
Buff: Up Throw does 11% damage and slightly more knockback, it used to do 8% before the patch.
Nerf: Flare blitz has 1% more recoil damage when activated. So doing the move without hitting someone does 5% damage to yourself. It used to do 4% before the patch.

I'll post any more changes I discover if there are any.

Yeah, that's pretty much all the info I got from the training lab.

Unfortunately, details about knock-back things I gotta try against other people. But I personally don't see too much happening to Zard.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

If this is all that happened then...

I dunno, I'll take that Up Throw buff for one more damage.

 

[-LzR-]

I'm glad they nerfed Blitz. It was so strong the game was literally unplayable.

 

[Steeler]

On the plus side, guys, it could have easily been a damage/knockback reduction on Blitz. Thank goodness the FG scrubs didn't **** it up too badly.

On the plus side, we gained 1% more off our grabs.

On the negative side, we are still bad.

Also, Sheik bair got hard nerfed by 3% and Diddy uair got nerfed in knockback, so those matchups are a little easier.

 

[Bloodcross]

we damage ourselves more but hey....


we're closer to rage percents now ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[DrChops]

D-tilt feels faster now. Also I think they reduced the landing lag after Fair. Call me crazy, but I feel like the hit box on the tail on Nair and the forward rocks on rock smash feels bigger.

There could be some knockback changes too. I would have loved if they nerfed flare blitz then buffed his other moves. I don't think anyone was upset over the amount of damage Zard's moves did, just the lag that came with them.

Here's some changes I can confirm:
Nerf: Flare blitz has 1% more recoil damage when activated. So doing the move without hitting someone does 5% damage to yourself. It used to do 4% before the patch.

Thank the lord for dragon rush

 

[Steeler]

^ LOL bloodcross

i am currently taking note of kill percents on unpatched 3ds, will redo after patching and note any kb differences

cuz man

i don't want this to be it

at least now the optimal throw in a lot of situations in uthrow

but still </3 i bet this messes with untrue side b follow ups doe

99% sure dtilt/fair are the same timing wise @ DrChops

 

[Leety]

we damage ourselves more but hey....


we're closer to rage percents now ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

"It's my idea to add in strategy and depth to the character. It seperates the good Charizard players and the great Charizard players!" ~Sakurai

 

[Marrow]

No aerial improvements? Not even jump height? Even Mac got a jump height buff, come on Sakurai

 

[RadianB]

D-tilt feels faster now. Also I think they reduced the landing lag after Fair. Call me crazy, but I feel like the hit box on the tail on Nair and the forward rocks on rock smash feels bigger.

Nah they're all the same.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Backthrow still does 10% though.

I an confirm everything in the OP is legit in terms of changes though.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

I'm 90% certain Fair has more Auto Cancel Frames now.

 

[Steeler]

Okay guys. I stayed up all night landing kill moves in training mode before and after updating my 3DS version. It was tested on Mario on the platform P2 spawns on. I took care to exactly replicate moves as well as I could (not touching Mario and rolling as far into the edge as I could). Anyway, what I found was a little odd. But I am pretty sure that most of this is correct.

Fair
For those who don't know, this move has two different hitboxes.
Fair
Frame 8- 9: 11% 45b/100g (KO@ 135%) 361° Slash
Frame 10-11: 12% 25b/80g (KO@ 174%) 34° Slash
Max Damage: 12%

I always thought it strange that the first part was the stronger kill part and did less damage. Well, it looks like the knockback for these two parts has been switched around. Pre-patch, I hit Mario with a fair from underneath, which did 11% and killed at around 125%. After patch, this was not killing at 135% and probably longer than that... but on a whim I decided to fair from above and lo and behold, that hitbox was the one that started killing at 125%. I am 99% sure this is the case, but feel free to test this out if you can. Gotta make sure.

Dthrow
It looks like this has been slightly nerfed. Yep. Charizard was too strong, guys. I killed Mario 3-4% later after the patch. Not quite sure how this will translate against DI. Will the DI be more effective than it was before? Or will the same DI only save them for 4% more or so? Need to test this. It feels like the ROB uthrow nerf, where it still kills but it's possible the rage/DI influences will make kill later than 4%. Dthrow from mid stage is looking pretty rough, because this throw is really susceptible to DI. At the edge it's probably still strong because they just can't fly all that much vertically before they hit the blast zone. Not sure if it's "rage kill lightweights at 100%" strong though. At least we aren't as dependent on the throw as ROB is on his uthrow.

Rising Cyclone
Uhhh, yeah. This appears to kill even earlier now. I was getting KOs about 3-5% earlier than before. The weird thing is that it also did feel like it was linking differently and more reliably. I trained myself to roll into the ledge in front of Mario, up B, and only hold up, no horizontal input. Before the patch, Mario was flying out before the last hit occasionally, like 20% of the time. After the patch, he never fell out when I hit him this way. It looked like Mario was deeper inside me at the beginning of the move, thus limiting how far the intermediate hits would launch him. If I had to guess, the very first hitbox got weaker knockback. It's still ass at linking if you aren't horizontally level with them and try to hit them mid way through the move.

My roommate still hasn't updated his 3DS so I can still go back to pre-patch and mess with this.

But I'm pretty certain all other kill moves are the same. (all tilts, all aerials sans nair, all the stronger kill specials)

Test this out if you can. Now I gotta pass out.

edit: real quick @ Grizzlpaw , you should try going into training mode and slowing the speed down, and varying your fair timing. from what i am getting, i still cannot autocancel if i press A after charizard has left the ground.

 

[DrChops]

Okay guys. I stayed up all night landing kill moves in training mode before and after updating my 3DS version. It was tested on Mario on the platform P2 spawns on. I took care to exactly replicate moves as well as I could (not touching Mario and rolling as far into the edge as I could). Anyway, what I found was a little odd. But I am pretty sure that most of this is correct.

Fair
For those who don't know, this move has two different hitboxes.
Fair
Frame 8- 9: 11% 45b/100g (KO@ 135%) 361° Slash
Frame 10-11: 12% 25b/80g (KO@ 174%) 34° Slash
Max Damage: 12%

I always thought it strange that the first part was the stronger kill part and did less damage. Well, it looks like the knockback for these two parts has been switched around. Pre-patch, I hit Mario with a fair from underneath, which did 11% and killed at around 125%. After patch, this was not killing at 135% and probably longer than that... but on a whim I decided to fair from above and lo and behold, that hitbox was the one that started killing at 125%. I am 99% sure this is the case, but feel free to test this out if you can. Gotta make sure.

Dthrow
It looks like this has been slightly nerfed. Yep. Charizard was too strong, guys. I killed Mario 3-4% later after the patch. Not quite sure how this will translate against DI. Will the DI be more effective than it was before? Or will the same DI only save them for 4% more or so? Need to test this. It feels like the ROB uthrow nerf, where it still kills but it's possible the rage/DI influences will make kill later than 4%. Dthrow from mid stage is looking pretty rough, because this throw is really susceptible to DI. At the edge it's probably still strong because they just can't fly all that much vertically before they hit the blast zone. Not sure if it's "rage kill lightweights at 100%" strong though. At least we aren't as dependent on the throw as ROB is on his uthrow.

Rising Cyclone
Uhhh, yeah. This appears to kill even earlier now. I was getting KOs about 3-5% earlier than before. The weird thing is that it also did feel like it was linking differently and more reliably. I trained myself to roll into the ledge in front of Mario, up B, and only hold up, no horizontal input. Before the patch, Mario was flying out before the last hit occasionally, like 20% of the time. After the patch, he never fell out when I hit him this way. It looked like Mario was deeper inside me at the beginning of the move, thus limiting how far the intermediate hits would launch him. If I had to guess, the very first hitbox got weaker knockback.

My roommate still hasn't updated his 3DS so I can still go back to pre-patch and mess with this.

But I'm pretty certain all other kill moves are the same. (all tilts, all aerials sans nair, all the stronger kill specials)

Test this out if you can. Now I gotta pass out.

edit: real quick @ Grizzlpaw , you should try going into training mode and slowing the speed down, and varying your fair timing. from what i am getting, i still cannot autocancel if i press A after charizard has left the ground.

A little disheartening, but we will take what we can get. The buff to UThrow is nice. I'm curious if Fly received a similar buff as Rising Cyclone. If not, I think I might consider using rising cyclone + dragon rush sets for competitive play.

 

[Grizzlpaw]

Dthrow nerf hurts, but hey, at least we don't rely on throws for our K.O's.

Uthrow does the most damage now, yey! (it finally gitted good)

Tested it on 1/4x speed, pressed A right as Charizard's feet left the ground and it auto canceled, still 90% sure.
(could also be a placebo, but it feels ever so slightly more forgiving now, timing wise.)

Char got a custom buff! woo!



All that said, I'm still going to main this chubby orange dragon for as long as he's in a smash game. At least he wasn't nerfed, that's enough for me <3

 

[Leety]

Can someone check the hitbox of the Fair? I already downloaded the 3ds patch so I can't test this out.

But the last time I went into training with Zard, I knew that you can auto cancel Fair with a short hop. However, it never seemed to hit my opponent when I tried that but for some reason, it feels a bit more forgiving. It might just be that my experience with Charizard has improved since I last work-shopped him. Possible placebo, but the patch might have something to do with that

However, either way, this will be handy for a couple or mix ups when my opponent wants to dash into me to invade my Flamethrower comfort zone. I can easily use it as a jump out of shield option and land into either grab, jab, or even tilt range to keep myself unpredictable what I might do. The short hop Nair still remains a nice option as well heh heh <3

 

[Davregis]

Why is a character considered one of the worst getting any nerfs at all?
I wonder how the FAir switch will turn out. On paper it looks like a nerf, but it's a pretty long-reaching move? Hopefully, this version of Charizard will prove better in the end anyway.

 

[tencoth]

Someone told me F-smash does less knockback, can anyone confirm this?

 

[RadianB]

Someone told me F-smash does less knockback, can anyone confirm this?

This would be so annoying if true because apparently nearly all of Bowser's moves got knockback increases

 

[Steeler]

If fsmash is any different, it's a very, very minor change

So imma say naw, it da same

 

[TerraSky]

I feel so disappointed right now...

 

[RadianB]

Been playing Charizard for a bit since the patch came out and down throw doesn't feel nerfed at all. Killed Mewtwo near the ledge at 90% with 80% rage. I know Mewtwo is light but not Jigglypuff tier.
Charizard in general just feels better for some reason, can't put my finger on it as to why though. His attacks just flow better, I hope this isn't a placebo effect.
One thing I need one of you guys to check up on if you have the pre-patched version is Flamethrowers damage output, I think it's been buffed. Been doing like 17% whilst ledge guarding with it which seems higher than normal.

 

[MasterExocuter]

On the reddit post about 1.0.6 patch notes, apparently the upthrow buff was busted and is therefore fake. SO all Charizard really got was a ****ty 1 percent tacked onto flare blitz. Way to ****ing go For Glory scrubs.

EDIT: I am still hopeful that Charizard did indeed get a buff, but I'm going to go by the reddit post where they're keeping all the info for now

 

[TerraSky]

On the reddit post about 1.0.6 patch notes, apparently the upthrow buff was busted and is therefore fake. SO all Charizard really got was a ****ty 1 percent tacked onto flare blitz. Way to ****ing go For Glory scrubs

I'd check for yourself. Whenever I execute an Up Throw, I get the 11 damage. Where's Reddit's source on this?

 

[DrChops]

Charizard in general just feels better for some reason, can't put my finger on it as to why though. His attacks just flow better, I hope this isn't a placebo effect.

I feel the same way. Everything feels a bit smoother.

On the reddit post about 1.0.6 patch notes, apparently the upthrow buff was busted and is therefore fake. SO all Charizard really got was a ****ty 1 percent tacked onto flare blitz. Way to ****ing go For Glory scrubs.

EDIT: I am still hopeful that Charizard did indeed get a buff, but I'm going to go by the reddit post where they're keeping all the info for now

Uthrow does 11 damage now. It is a buff.

 

[RadianB]

On the reddit post about 1.0.6 patch notes, apparently the upthrow buff was busted and is therefore fake. SO all Charizard really got was a ****ty 1 percent tacked onto flare blitz. Way to ****ing go For Glory scrubs.

EDIT: I am still hopeful that Charizard did indeed get a buff, but I'm going to go by the reddit post where they're keeping all the info for now

What? I've tested it out myself, it's been buffed. Don't listen to reddit.

 

[Marrow]

Why is a character considered one of the worst getting any nerfs at all?

We can't have buffs, you fool! Who do you think this is? Bowser?

 

[SirJuicius]

I believe Charizard's air mobility has improved. His air speed seems to be faster and I believe his jump height is higher now, which has made spiking with dair easy to execute.

 

[Steeler]

Thinkaman confirmed the fair change, didn't see a difference between the dthrow or cyclone. i feel like the cyclone is more likely to be a placebo, but we'll see.

I can confirm that dthrow is definitely slightly weaker. Lightning at 165% pre patch but not post patch (both killed with no DI)

Confirming that jump height and air speed are the same.

 

[NatesBound]

i feel like rock smash does 1% less damage, yeah it definitely does.

 

[RadianB]

i feel like rock smash does 1% less damage, yeah it definitely does.

No it doesn't I've checked it.

 

[NatesBound]

No it doesn't I've checked it.

hmm alright if you say so

 

[RadianB]

hmm alright if you say so

Just remember that some attacks do 1% less in training mode than an actual match. It's some weird glitch they never fixed. Rock Smash is one of those moves. It does 29% in training mode and 30% in a real match.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Just remember that some attacks do 1% less in training mode than an actual match. It's some weird glitch they never fixed. Rock Smash is one of those moves. It does 29% in training mode and 30% in a real match.

That's bonkers man.

 

[RadianB]

Does anyone remember if Rock Smash did any push back on block before the update? I remember getting shield grabbed if it got blocked but now it seems to push the opponent away if they shield it. I seriously can't remember it doing this pre-patch.