Chaingrabbing should be banned

[Burnt~Ramen]

There's no way chaingrabbing should be legal. It takes the fun out of the game, and it takes no skill to keep grabbing someone over and over. When I was playing Falco against my friend he kept on chaingrabbing me and doing 0 to death combos, which was completely unfair. To make the game more fun, chaingrabbing should be banned.

 

[Y-L]

It actually takes a lot of skill to chaingrab if you DI properly. Try doing slight DI by quickly tapping behind them so that they have to perfectly pivot to grab you again or mix up your DI. If you don't DI or only DI one way you're bound to be chain grabbed to death.

 

[AirFair]

?? You can DI out of it ??
From a Marth perspective, I'd like to argue against that. Chaingrabbing takes considerable skill to perform correctly. Against a multitude of possible reactions to each throw, you would be surprised how many chaingrabs get dropped amongst lower leveled players like myself.

Heck the chainthrows I know of can be DI'd out of anyway, so why not learn how to mix that up?

To be honest, if you see someone that is grab heavy, then work around it. Melee isn't all grabs you know. You can move and attack around that you know.

 

[Deleted member]

you're on the wrong website

 

[Teran]

You should be banned

 

[Xaniede]

Don't get hit.

 

[Sketch]

^ ..............

 

[ZaXXoR]

read matchup guides learn how to avoid chaingrabs and ban stages that give them easy chaingrabs in tourny... all you can do

 

[anikom15]

There's nothing unfair about someone being better than you. You just have to have a contigency plan, like Batman and Link.

 

[SomethingRaven]

It's not like chain grabs are instant kills. Labeling chain grabbing as something on par with wobbling makes no sense. To get a kill off a couple of re grabs takes skill.

 

[Latkes]

It's bogus to say that chaingrabs should be banned, especially considering that DI exists & you can AVOID GETTING INTO chaingrabs in the first place. Plus it's not always easy to chaingrab, it often takes significant timing and concentration. Maybe it sounds like your friend is just better than you...

 

[Bones0]

I agree with OP. Everyone saying "you can DI" and "don't get hit" have obviously never played good CGers. It's a broken technique that needs to be abolished like slavery. Slaves were kept in chains too, are you pro-slavery? That's what I thought.

 

[The Prince L]

Don't get grabbed and stop crying.

 

[sadistic]

How about some anti-chain grabbing advice, because I'm pretty sure you play falco:

(btw, I'm only pretty sure about these, so if anyone wants to correct me that would be great)
vs. Marth
0-7%, Marth doesn't have a true chain grab on falco (as long as you don't DI). If he tries to forward throw > regrab, I believe
you can shine before he regrabs.
8-18%, Marth has a true chain grab on falco, but if you do slight DI behind him (about +/-20 degrees from straight up) it can be really difficult to regrab you. Try DI'ing so that you would land directly on Marth's head.
19%-28%, Marth has a true chain grab on falco, but ONLY if he does a pivot regrab. If he tries for a regular regrab, and you don't DI, you should be able to shine just before he grabs you.
28%+, If you don't DI, Marth has no true regrab.

vs. Peach
40%-100%, Should be a true chain, so you're pretty boned. Try mixing up your DI, or if you're on a map with platforms, try DI'ing towards one.
100%-120%, If she's still going for a chain grab after 100%, I'm pretty sure if you don't DI that you can shine before she regrabs you.

 

[Vorde]

Chaingrabs are not broken and are a normal part of the game. Learn to DI or your character will DI-E
Also try chaingrabbing a character from 0 - 80% and have them randomly DI and tell me it takes no skill

 

[RazeriaN]

They're part of the game and they're fair. You just got to DI out of them

 

[Bones0]

Chaingrabs are not broken and are a normal part of the game. Learn to DI or your character will DI-E
Also try chaingrabbing a character from 0 - 80% and have them randomly DI and tell me it takes no skill

It takes no skill.

 

[Teran]

are you pro-slavery?

Only if I'm the owner obv

 

[Shadow Huan]

you are out of your mind lol

Marth's chain throws take a lot of practice to get down, and even then he can only do it until 25-30% or so, then he has to either pivot grab (Which has strict timing since you should be mashing either jump or shine at that point) or go into a juggle combo that are all DI dependant and escapable if he guesses or reacts wrong even once. if it takes no skill prove it to yourself and go practice it as Marth against other spacie players. you will drop it a lot.

if you're getting chainthrown by peach you deserve it for getting grabbed, since her grab range is "meh"

you want to know which chainthrow is braindead easy? Sheik's. to the point that it's a balance issue in the game and one of the good nerfs in the PAL version of Melee and in PM. it invalidates over half the cast, it isn't stage specific like all the other chainthrows, and Sheik is still an amazing character without it

 

[EddyBearr]

Falcon's air-wobbles-into-rest, falco's neutral & lasers, Fox's neutral and bread&butter, and Marth's huge sword each do only a little less to invalidate half the cast than Sheik's entire arsenal, and probably more each than chain-grabs alone.

The only character I could see being plausibly more viable without Sheik's chain-grab would be Link or something, and that's a huge-if since he can be waveshined or pillared for 20 years into 20 upsmashes or b/dairs each stock anyways.

 

[Bones0]

Falcon's air-wobbles-into-rest, falco's neutral & lasers, Fox's neutral and bread&butter, and Marth's huge sword each do only a little less to invalidate half the cast than Sheik's entire arsenal, and probably more each than chain-grabs alone.

The only character I could see being plausibly more viable without Sheik's chain-grab would be Link or something, and that's a huge-if since he can be waveshined or pillared for 20 years into 20 upsmashes or b/dairs each stock anyways.

It's a good thing Link isn't viable since he can chain grab the entire cast.

 

[Code Bread]

I don't know if Bones0 is joking and it's hurting me inside.

 

[1MachGO]

Falcon's air-wobbles-into-rest, falco's neutral & lasers, Fox's neutral and bread&butter, and Marth's huge sword each do only a little less to invalidate half the cast than Sheik's entire arsenal, and probably more each than chain-grabs alone.

The only character I could see being plausibly more viable without Sheik's chain-grab would be Link or something, and that's a huge-if since he can be waveshined or pillared for 20 years into 20 upsmashes or b/dairs each stock anyways.

Pikachu, Ganon, and the links would all be better if the CG was removed. Especially Pikachu.

If we're talking PAL dthrow (removal of CG AND loss of follow ups). Everyone in the game save for Fox/Falco/Falcon would be more viable. Marth/Samus/Pikachu would benefit the most from it.

I don't know if Bones0 is joking and it's hurting me inside.

Don't quote me on this but I believe he can theory CG since the first frame of tether grabs can regrab airborne opponents. The spacing and speed obviously make it very impractical.

 

[DJ _ICE]

No, its cause that's a chain lol

 

[Code Bread]

I just mean the whole "chain grabs are ultimate cheat" thing he's got going on.
I want to laugh but I don't want to laugh.

 

[Snowbird]

Chain grabs are fun, fun to watch, becuase most of them are on Fox/Falco.

Shiek chaingrabbing low tiers, however, is pretty lame, really.

 

[Massive]

 

[Effay]

If the reason your losing is actually because of chaingrab, then don't use fast fallers against him, unless you learn to DI it. Other than that, no, it shouldn't be banned. Assuming that it was banned, imagine yourself facing a Marth player. He upthrows you, but rather than regrabbing you when you fall (because it's banned), he can up-tilt you into another grab (into upthrow uptilt of course). That has the same effect as chain-grabbing, even though it isn't. So it would be pointless to ban it, really, unless you want to ban upthrow up-tilt into grab, which would be ridiculous. You just need to learn to deal with it. If chaingrabs were so broken, I imagine that M2k would've taken TBH4 grand finals.

 

[Spaghetti Falco]

Chaingrabbing is a needed technique for some
And if your gonna ban that then why not ban shine combos too?
Or edge guarding
Or everything
There would be no point because people have plenty of other gimmicks/techniques to use other than CGs

 

[EddyBearr]

Pikachu, Ganon, and the links would all be better if the CG was removed. Especially Pikachu.

If we're talking PAL dthrow (removal of CG AND loss of follow ups). Everyone in the game save for Fox/Falco/Falcon would be more viable. Marth/Samus/Pikachu would benefit the most from it.

I opted against including Pikachu, Ganondorf, and Young Link in that because:
--I was assuming a Smash-4 anti-chain-grab mechanic, not a PAL d-throw
Pikachu: Chain-grab doesn't actually last very long. Pika is hurt harder by follow-ups to dthrow or ftilt and general Sheik combos.
Ganondorf: Ganondorf can chain-grab Sheik equally, and there's something odd about the Ganondorf chain-grab that makes combo'ing more desirable for some, it wrecks ganon about equally.
Young Link: Young Link can't compete with Sheik's range and is hard to grab by Sheik to begin with because of how Young Link plays. He loses to Sheik because of her other tools mostly.

Below the Links, I don't think anyone else is significant. DK is a huge maybe, though.

 

[super_zootd]

Only if its IC doing the chain grabbing. Only broken thing in the entire game, IMO.

 

[menotyou135]

You're playing falco and complaining about someone being able to 0-death you?

Learn the game more. You are getting outplayed. Simple as that.

 

[1MachGO]

I opted against including Pikachu, Ganondorf, and Young Link in that because:
--I was assuming a Smash-4 anti-chain-grab mechanic, not a PAL d-throw

I obviously understood that since I clarified the separate benefits of no cgs and pal dthrow.

Pikachu: Chain-grab doesn't actually last very long. Pika is hurt harder by follow-ups to dthrow or ftilt and general Sheik combos.
Ganondorf: Ganondorf can chain-grab Sheik equally, and there's something odd about the Ganondorf chain-grab that makes combo'ing more desirable for some, it wrecks ganon about equally.

Attacks can be SDI'd and guarantee less percent. I'd rather have that option than get CG'd to like 60 or 70 according to KK.

Bringing up Ganon's dthrow is irrelevant since: a) Ganon is much less likely to get a grab b) it only proves my point since Ganon can CG Sheik whereas Sheik can't CG Ganon

Source: http://smashboards.com/threads/sheik-chain-grabbing.285270/#post-11868758

Young Link: Young Link can't compete with Sheik's range and is hard to grab by Sheik to begin with because of how Young Link plays. He loses to Sheik because of her other tools mostly.

Still a lot of free % Sheik doesn't get anymore. What part of this do you not understand?

 

[Varist]

You're playing falco and complaining about someone being able to 0-death you?

Learn the game more. You are getting outplayed. Simple as that.

Falco gets meaty combos but they're only about 60%, anything further takes terrible DI or obvious techs. Peach is the true 0-deather in this game

 

[Effay]

Falco gets meaty combos but they're only about 60%, anything further takes terrible DI or obvious techs. Peach is the true 0-deather in this game

I think what he means is that you shouldn't pick a fast faller then expect to not get combo'd. A Falco player should be ready for chain-grabs.

 

[-Dubs]

When I was playing Falco against my friend he kept on chaingrabbing me and doing 0 to death combos, which was completely unfair.

You picked a fast-faller, you signed up for that.

I'm assuming you're playing vs Marth. Unless you're playing on FD or Pokemon, which you can ban, you should be punishing just as hard as he is.

Falcon's air-wobbles-into-rest

Is this 2009? SDIing down and away will solve all of your problems.

 

[menotyou135]

Chaingrabs on spacies are the only thing that make Marth vs spacies balanced matchup. Without it, the match is in their favor.

It's also one of the few things that make other characters able to do anything to spacies.

I would get his frustration if he were playing DK and there was a chaingrab on only DK that every decent player knew that made the matchup even harder for DK (I.E. what sheiks chaingrab does to the entire bottom 3/4ths of the tier list but to higher percent).

I just don't think that someone should complain about the weakness of their character when their character is literally the 2nd best in the entire game. Without Falco's weakness (and fox's) the spacies would essentially be metaknight from brawl with no ice climbers players and a halberd/delfino plaza only ruleset.

 

[Bones0]

I just mean the whole "chain grabs are ultimate cheat" thing he's got going on.
I want to laugh but I don't want to laugh.

I'm just as serious as OP.

 

[Code Bread]

I'm just as serious as OP.

Well then I don't want to have this conversation anymore :|
No offense intended. I don't think chaingrabbing is op, but I don't want to talk about why.

 

[NJzFinest]

Pretty sure the OP is a troll.