I'll start by apologizing if this is obvious or already posted. I have found a descent use for the chain other than as a tether. While playing a Toon Link last night, I had this idea. When he was holding onto the ledge after I had knocked him off the stage I started using the whip. It worked to get him off the ledge and with a little bit of thought, I think I could have turned it into some form of a combo and stole the ledge from him. So any idea for what to hit them with after they are off of the ledge? I was thinking dair but its a little risky to try especially if you miss.
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Chain Use
- Thread starter Kricu
- Start date
Dair doesn't meteor. It pops them upward. Extremely bad idea when going for an off-stage edgeguard.
Chain put-away lag seems to be too long for you to follow up with anything after getting them off the ledge with it... Tell me if you manage anything in your testing, I'll see how often I can hit someone ledgestalling with a chain.
Chain put-away lag seems to be too long for you to follow up with anything after getting them off the ledge with it... Tell me if you manage anything in your testing, I'll see how often I can hit someone ledgestalling with a chain.
Lord_Naomasa
Smash Apprentice
Well, edgeguarding seems to be limited with the chain. They can jump over you and the lag would be punishable. I could see it used when they were recovering but were not yet at the ledge and were far enough away to prevent them from being able to jump over you. If I was the other player I would have rolled or jumped over, grabbed and spiked. Is it possible to roll through the chain though? The use I have found for it is if its a rushing character such as sonic or Ike dashing towards you.
I'm more refering to when the only way they are going to survive is by grabbing the ledge. If you are prepared for this, you can use the chain to hit them before they can roll or jump over you. It is a bit circumstancial because you can be easily punished if you dont know what you are doing.
Sheik_Pwns
Smash Apprentice
I agree with ankoko
Lord_Naomasa
Smash Apprentice
Ok, I see. Still, the chain gets maximum damage from the initial release and the edge of the chain so it would be hard to get max damage and you would probably get a small amount of damage. BTW, is there a way Sheik can spike?
Sheik has no meteors.
ADHD
Smash Hero
It's a good idea not to give her a meteor too.
FrozenFire13
Smash Ace
Why is that? She hardly has any killing moves, three (four maybe if you count Vanish) and the only really useful one is the bair. I think she deserves a spike. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just stating my personal opinion and inquiring about yours.
No doubt, if it was melee, i would agree, but sheik seems a bit on the weak side as it is, so giving her a little extra boost wouldn't be game breaking by any means, imo. Zelda would still be better...
Cobra
Smash Journeyman
Her aerial game is too mobile and quick to give her a meteor. She already has some of the best off the edge chasing in the game, giving her a meteor would make her too strong off the edge. The entire character concept of Sheik is that she's the quicker, more mobile half of Zelda...what she lacks in the game, Zelda has and Vice Versa. As such, giving sheik powerful KO moves or meteors would eliminate the concept of using her in conjunction with Zelda. A lot of people try to look at them as two separate characters, but their character designs show that it was not meant to be like that. Zelda has all the KO moves, Sheik has all the poking moves...poke poke poke, transform, Kill is the natural flow of the character concept.
...I guess it's too bad that Sakurai decided to bone us and make the loading times between transforms so long and variable...but I really do believe that is why Sheik has no KO power...and I agree with it, I like how they finally balanced out the character (minus of course the transformation time blotching)
i was using this tactic up against my mate (falco) yesteday.
He was hanging onto the ledge and i started to use my chain by swirling it around, and he could't get back onto the ledge, and he died from falling down. Although this was probably my friend playing very stupid as it was about 2am.
But i will try and test it out more to see if it works.
He was hanging onto the ledge and i started to use my chain by swirling it around, and he could't get back onto the ledge, and he died from falling down. Although this was probably my friend playing very stupid as it was about 2am.
But i will try and test it out more to see if it works.
Cobra
Smash Journeyman
Fun Little Edge Chain tricks
With all the talk of chains and whatnot in this thread, I figured I'd share some of the things I use chain for besides the obvious saving to the edge when you need to. If it's old info, or if it's something you already do, feel free to ignore the post.
...Sometimes I like to play games with the chain off the edge and use it as an effective edge hog. With a lot of characters, horizontal saves are kind of crap and they have a hard time getting back if you are an aggressive edge guarder. Some obvious examples are Ganondorf, Marth, Ike, and basically anyone else with a tether. Now keeping in mind that the chain is a horizontal save tactic as well as vertical, I think that in certain situations we can use this to our advantage.
Let's take Ike : He has 3 ways to save to a ledge
1) Forward B and glide into it or onto it
2) Use Aether to snap to the ledge on the down swing
3) Use Aether to get on top of the ledge and suffer lag after hitting.
I'm ignoring #3 because nothing can be done with the chain in this case...better off backing off and charging needles or preparing to take advantage of his momentary lag afterwards.
However, there are some High risk/ High reward techniques we can employ in the cases where he's trying to snap to the edge. In particular, I like when they try to Aether to the edge...the animation can take a while and based on their position on the map, you can more or less guess what they're trying to do. What I like to do is wait till hes just about to use Aether, the jump off the ledge, wait for the sword to be thrown up, then CHAIN to the edge.
...now to be perfectly honest, I don't have the timing down perfectly on this, but I would say a good majority of the time, the chain snaps to the ledge, Ike rises up, grabs his sword, flies downward, and your invincibility recover frames save you from the Aethercide.
This same concept can be used when he's trying to snap back to the ledge with his forward+B. Instead of taking a hit, jump off the edge as he's lining up the shot, shoot the chain out and hang as he soars past the ledge and past you, falling to his death with no way to knock you off. (Now keep in mind, he could just Aim over the edge if he sees it coming and avoid the death, but it's not like you just killed yourself for the chance or anything, you've just put yourself on the edge.)
This same concept can be employed on a lot of saves and when used responsibly can get you some really nice edge guarding kills in a game where edge guarding has become much more difficult. Given Sheik's ACTUAL killing power though, I think the risk to gimp someone's save to the ledge is often worth the risk. then again, if you're knocking them that far off the ledge to employ these tactics, sometimes they are already within Sheik's kill zone.
Anyways, that's a chain tactic that I sometimes like to employ since the chain snap counts as you being on the ledge, it's a "Safer" way to edge guard in certain situations. Not saying it'll always work or it's always the best option, but it's a nice little trick to keep in the bag of tricks when playing an aggressive game.
Questions? Comments? *puts on his Flame Retardant suit*
With all the talk of chains and whatnot in this thread, I figured I'd share some of the things I use chain for besides the obvious saving to the edge when you need to. If it's old info, or if it's something you already do, feel free to ignore the post.
...Sometimes I like to play games with the chain off the edge and use it as an effective edge hog. With a lot of characters, horizontal saves are kind of crap and they have a hard time getting back if you are an aggressive edge guarder. Some obvious examples are Ganondorf, Marth, Ike, and basically anyone else with a tether. Now keeping in mind that the chain is a horizontal save tactic as well as vertical, I think that in certain situations we can use this to our advantage.
Let's take Ike : He has 3 ways to save to a ledge
1) Forward B and glide into it or onto it
2) Use Aether to snap to the ledge on the down swing
3) Use Aether to get on top of the ledge and suffer lag after hitting.
I'm ignoring #3 because nothing can be done with the chain in this case...better off backing off and charging needles or preparing to take advantage of his momentary lag afterwards.
However, there are some High risk/ High reward techniques we can employ in the cases where he's trying to snap to the edge. In particular, I like when they try to Aether to the edge...the animation can take a while and based on their position on the map, you can more or less guess what they're trying to do. What I like to do is wait till hes just about to use Aether, the jump off the ledge, wait for the sword to be thrown up, then CHAIN to the edge.
...now to be perfectly honest, I don't have the timing down perfectly on this, but I would say a good majority of the time, the chain snaps to the ledge, Ike rises up, grabs his sword, flies downward, and your invincibility recover frames save you from the Aethercide.
This same concept can be used when he's trying to snap back to the ledge with his forward+B. Instead of taking a hit, jump off the edge as he's lining up the shot, shoot the chain out and hang as he soars past the ledge and past you, falling to his death with no way to knock you off. (Now keep in mind, he could just Aim over the edge if he sees it coming and avoid the death, but it's not like you just killed yourself for the chance or anything, you've just put yourself on the edge.)
This same concept can be employed on a lot of saves and when used responsibly can get you some really nice edge guarding kills in a game where edge guarding has become much more difficult. Given Sheik's ACTUAL killing power though, I think the risk to gimp someone's save to the ledge is often worth the risk. then again, if you're knocking them that far off the ledge to employ these tactics, sometimes they are already within Sheik's kill zone.
Anyways, that's a chain tactic that I sometimes like to employ since the chain snap counts as you being on the ledge, it's a "Safer" way to edge guard in certain situations. Not saying it'll always work or it's always the best option, but it's a nice little trick to keep in the bag of tricks when playing an aggressive game.
Questions? Comments? *puts on his Flame Retardant suit*
SheikahKun
Smash Rookie
Eh, I prefer to stay as far away from using the chain as possible. Unless you use it right and efficiently. I have no use for it though.
Wildfire393
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 12, 2007
- Messages
- 335
One thing to note about the chain is that it is Sheik's only disjointed hitbox. So if your opponent is doing a repeating jab combo or a move like Meta's Neutral B or Pit's Forward B, this move can hit them from the front. It can sometimes throw people off, because they think Sheik can't touch them without jumping over them or rolling, either of which would give them time to stop doing it.
lilaznkitty
Smash Cadet
Still the chain is not really the best edgegaurding option........
Wildfire393
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 12, 2007
- Messages
- 335
Not always. Pit's Side-B, for example, is a reflector, so you can't needle him through it. But you can chain him through it, and it tends to surprise.
SheikahBlood
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2008
- Messages
- 73
Well in my opinion i think the chain is quite fun to play with when your just playing among friends, the electric tip is fun to hit with....you can find a way to hit with it multiple times if you just play with it in practice mode =P