Chain grabbing should be banned...(CG, stalling)

[JigglyZelda003]

so another ban CG thread has arisen? lol

on the Fox v Pika. the solution to that is COUNTER PICK THAT ****. if its a scrub pika then you can probably get away with that fight and win, but any good Pika beats Fox WITH so much more. the cg is just rubbing salt in his furry wounds. if your facing a competent pika, not the lightnigh rod kind and don't cp something is wrong.
can't really make Melee comparisons cause CG avoidance was different in melee, with more options.

should CG be banned then? not really, there are too many of them around anyway and the ICs works on everyone. besides cg doesn't brea anything and with the exception of the ICs its possible to escape at some point.

 

[-Nana-]

LOL What a scrubby thread. This is so unnecessary and there's ways to get around it. CG's aren't infinites there's no reason for this thread it should be closed.

 

[K 2]

after Seeing Pikachu's Chain Grab Over Fox I Have To Say These.. This Unmanly Tactics Should Be Banned From Honorable Play. Abusing A Game Flaw Shouldn't Be Used Like This And Any Player With Some Honor Should Not Use This To Win.

Honorable? This is a fighting game. Lol @ honorable. If you fight a war against another country, are you going to be "honorable" and not use a weapon that could potentially win the war for you with less cost and less casualties? If you're fox, DON'T use fox against pikachu. There is not honor in fights...You should do whatever it takes to win.

really, How Can Someone Feel Good By Winning Like This? Why A Fox Main Has To Change His Character Against A Pikachu Because People Would Abuse This Detestable Game Bug?

...Because you beat someone stupid enough to pick fox against your pikachu. Uhh...every character except MK has to resort to secondaries to cover matchups...You seriously can't expect to choose one character (especially fox) to play in EVERY matchup. Every main has to switch characters (besides MK), not just fox mains.

the Same Way As Infinite Dimensional Cape Is Banned, And Some Tactics Like Doing Damage And Running Away Until The Time Goes Out Wouln't Probably Be Allowed On Tournaments... Detestable Tactics Like Chain Grabbing Should Be Banned... It Really Breaks The Game.. It Really Hurts Brawl As A Game... It Goes Against The Competitive Spirit...

Competitive spirit...isn't that beating your opponent no matter the cost? At tournament play, anything that isn't used to stall is considered fair.

What am I suppose to do? Do damage and stand there to beat hit? I guess that is "honorable."

do Not Tell Me That You Can Counterpick.. As I Think That Is Also Unmanly...you Should Be Able To Use Any Character Against The Other Without A Matchup Like 9:1 Because Of A Silly Bad Programmed Chain Grab.. You Can Be Sure Sakurai Didn't Wanted This To Be In The Game.. A Tactic That Can Be Used Like That Over And Over And It Is So Easy And Broken Should Be Banned For Tournament Play..
Who Is With Me?

The fox boards have the pika:fox match up as "LOL!", not "9:1"

Umm..counterpick? I can proficiently use 4 characters and I'm currently working on 2 more. If you only use one character, you suck.

It's so easy? How about you try to chaingrab me from 0-death consistantly with IC's? I've spent about 12 hours on it and I'm barely able to get past 50%.

Also, learn to space yourself so you DON'T get grabbed...




I beat ten bucks this guy just got owned by a pikachu online. Any takers?

 

[kr3wman]

He uses Sheik/Zelda.

He said that counterpicking stages and characters is not honorable since learning a character just to beat another is not manly.

I said

´Wanna fight my Pikachu with your Fox´

When he didn´T get it I mentionned the 9:1 matchup and he got straight pissed about chaingrabs.

 

[indianunit]

Considering Dedede's chaingrab was so obvious that Japanese players found out about it even before day 0 (during the demo days), it's rather difficult to claim that it wasn't intended by the game's developers.

This

If chain grabbing was so bad I don't think the developers would have put it into the game. Even the infinite chaingrab is hard to pull off.

 

[Chileno4Live]

When i battle a pikachu (i main Fox) i keep distance and spam the shotgun laser alot. If he goes to me i got an advantage since Fox sucks at approaching. Dairing it and Utilting does the job pretty good, and running around makes it alot difficult for the Pikachu to grab me. Chaingrabs aren't that bad in my opinion. Though it's cheap if you use it constantly, screws the fun.

 

[bob-e]

1) Read this
2) Realize that the SBR rule set states that you are not allowed to chain grab an opponent past 300% to prevent stalling.

 

[Falconv1.0]

After seeing Pikachu's Chain Grab over Fox I have to say these.. this unmanly tactics should be banned from honorable play. Abusing a game flaw shouldn't be used like this and any player with some honor should not use this to win. Really, how can someone feel good by winning like this? Why a fox main has to change his character against a pikachu because people would abuse this detestable game bug? The same way as Infinite Dimensional Cape is banned, and some tactics like doing damage and running away until the time goes out wouln't probably be allowed on tournaments... detestable tactics like chain grabbing should be banned... It really breaks the game.. it really hurts Brawl as a game... It goes against the competitive spirit... Do not tell me that you can counterpick.. as I think that is also unmanly...you should be able to use any character against the other without a matchup like 9:1 because of a silly bad programmed chain grab.. You can be sure Sakurai didn't wanted this to be in the game.. A tactic that can be used like that over and over and it is so easy and broken should be banned for tournament play..
Who is with me?

There is so much epic scrubness in this post it's beyond belief.


You've obviously never heard of the counter pick system, and honor has nothing to do with competitive play. I doubt you've ever been to or ever will enter a tourney so why give a flying **** dude.

 

[Dustero]

I don't think chain grabbing should be banned, but infinite chain grabs should be banned. If a character can chain grab another forever, then you shouldn't be allowed to chain grab forever with that character. I think you should only be allowed to grab up to, but not over five times in a chain grab.

 

[viparagon]

This game isnt about having fun.

Its about winning at all cost using any and all exploits within the game.

Stop learning the metagame if you want to preserve any sense of fun you have left in the game.

this game is totally about having fun! WTF r u talking about? Its not a job, or a battle royale compitiion, stop being so... how should i phrase this...Y SO SRS?

 

[Tenki]

this game is totally about having fun! WTF r u talking about? Its not a job, or a battle royale compitiion, stop being so... how should i phrase this...Y SO SRS?

Oh, here's where both of you kind of got it wrong.

A game's purpose can be about having fun.

However, tournaments and competitions that use the game as a medium... might not be


When people talk about banning Metaknight, items, etc, it doesn't have anything to do with what casual (aka, non-competitive) players do in their spare time, but rather rules and such to foster a competitive environment.

Does it matter if someone is "manly" or not in a competitive environment, when the goal is to win the prize?
In a footrace, does it matter which athlete has the most epic "crossing the finish line" photograph? No, what matters is finishing and/or winning the race.

XD

 

[viparagon]

Oh, here's where both of you kind of got it wrong.

A game's purpose can be about having fun.

However, tournaments and competitions that use the game as a medium... might not be


When people talk about banning Metaknight, items, etc, it doesn't have anything to do with what casual (aka, non-competitive) players do in their spare time, but rather rules and such to foster a competitive environment.

Does it matter if someone is "manly" or not in a competitive environment, when the goal is to win the prize?
In a footrace, does it matter which athlete has the most epic "crossing the finish line" photograph? No, what matters is finishing and/or winning the race.

XD

I never said it had to be fun competitively, only that the game was in fact designed to be fun!
Thats what he got wrong


EDIT: Actually its about making money...:/

 

[Veggi]

In defense of the OP, people are being hypocrites about honor. The Infinite Dimensional Cape is banned, the reason being because it has a huge pay off for little work. If people want to try and make themselves sound cool, I say that IDC is fair game.

 

[B0mbe1c]

Yeah, there is a big difference between scrub/pro play. and banning CGs is stupid.

 

[XienZo]

After seeing Pikachu's Chain Grab over Fox I have to say these.. this unmanly tactics should be banned from honorable play. Abusing a game flaw shouldn't be used like this and any player with some honor should not use this to win. Really, how can someone feel good by winning like this? Why a fox main has to change his character against a pikachu because people would abuse this detestable game bug? The same way as Infinite Dimensional Cape is banned, and some tactics like doing damage and running away until the time goes out wouln't probably be allowed on tournaments... detestable tactics like chain grabbing should be banned... It really breaks the game.. it really hurts Brawl as a game... It goes against the competitive spirit... Do not tell me that you can counterpick.. as I think that is also unmanly...you should be able to use any character against the other without a matchup like 9:1 because of a silly bad programmed chain grab.. You can be sure Sakurai didn't wanted this to be in the game.. A tactic that can be used like that over and over and it is so easy and broken should be banned for tournament play..
Who is with me?

Because pika would have like a 7:3 advantage over Fox without the CG anyway.

 

[Barge]

Well, if this game wasn't fun no one would be playing it now would we?

 

[The Slayer]

In defense of the OP, people are being hypocrites about honor. The Infinite Dimensional Cape is banned, the reason being because it has a huge pay off for little work. If people want to try and make themselves sound cool, I say that IDC is fair game.

There's a huge difference between having a chance to stall someone and stalling someone without problem nor having a large chance of getting hit. Besides, IDC doesn't need the opponent to start the movement AND you can't attack them once they're moving around with it. So it's even worst than a chaingrab, in which it only lasts until the end of the stage or out of the character's range.

 

[PKNintendo]

Im fine with CG. But D3 infinites on a few characters are bothersome.

 

[viparagon]

Im fine with CG. But D3 infinites on a few characters are bothersome.

yeah, thats the only thing thats really up for debate...

 

[cutter]

In defense of the OP, people are being hypocrites about honor. The Infinite Dimensional Cape is banned, the reason being because it has a huge pay off for little work. If people want to try and make themselves sound cool, I say that IDC is fair game.

The obvious flaw in this logic is the fact that the infinite cape completely devolves the game and is 100% unstoppable, unpunishable, and unbeatable... except by IDCing in response.

Banning the IDC wasn't because of honor or anything like that; it was banned because of common sense.

 

[Samuelson]

Alot of characters grabs are their manliest moves. Look at DDD he grabs you and then he sits/farts on you. Thats pretty manly if you ask me.

 

[Kingdrom]

If you're truly competitive, using whatever tools that are most effective against each character should be self explanatory. If Pikachu is capable of 0-80% Fthrow chaingrabs, and the situation is competitive, why would the Pikachu player not use it? There is no "honor" in competitive battling- you're not there to make friends, you're there to win. Ultimately, the effectiveness shown by your character, and by extension, yourself, will be remembered, while your "cheap" (scrubs word for effecient) tactics will not be held against you. IDC was banned because it's an unbeatable tactic against EVERY character, and with his transcedental priority, it's easy to get one hit and run away for the rest of the match. The only thing that could let MK lose would be his lack of technical skill, and with Mk's ability to rack up damage, it's hard for an opponent to not get hit unless they stall themselves.

 

[K 2]

He uses Sheik/Zelda.

He said that counterpicking stages and characters is not honorable since learning a character just to beat another is not manly.

I said

´Wanna fight my Pikachu with your Fox´

When he didn´T get it I mentionned the 9:1 matchup and he got straight pissed about chaingrabs.

Manly? And he's a shiek main? Ok then...The only "manly" way to fight is to use C. Falcon.

1) Read this
2) Realize that the SBR rule set states that you are not allowed to chain grab an opponent past 300% to prevent stalling.

LOL!!!! too good. Nice link to the scrub thing...rofl.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

When i battle a pikachu (i main Fox) i keep distance and spam the shotgun laser alot. If he goes to me i got an advantage since Fox sucks at approaching. Dairing it and Utilting does the job pretty good, and running around makes it alot difficult for the Pikachu to grab me. Chaingrabs aren't that bad in my opinion. Though it's cheap if you use it constantly, screws the fun.

the pika you fought wasn't very good then, since pika can crawl or just charge through lasers. and reflecting Pikas B is just to prevent retaliatory camping.

Because pika would have like a 7:3 advantage over Fox without the CG anyway.

its still 75:35-9:1 anyway cause Pika vs Fox is more than the CG, its practically an entire moveset counter. CG is just added bonus.

 

[XienZo]

its still 75:35-9:1 anyway cause Pika vs Fox is more than the CG, its practically an entire moveset counter. CG is just added bonus.

75+35=110?

But yeah, Pika can win without the CG since he's got crawl to avoid lasers, fast-fall eating dsmash, and epic gimping ability against a character with a predictable recovery.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

you know i ment 75:25 lol. >__>
Sakurai must have hated fox so he made pikachu able to **** him so bad.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

First off, if someone is going to play, ANY TACTIC IS ACCPETABLE, SINCE THE GOAL IS TO WIN NO MATTER WHAT.

You can choose to counterpick another character, because you lose even without the CG. How is it not manly to pick other characters? The definition of manly differs from person to person (aside from Captian Falcon, of course). Ignoring that, your point is that chain grabs are unfair.

A free 90% is really good, but you can play around it to a certain extent. And it doesn't help that the chain grab doesn't work on every character. Or the fact that Fox can also be locked into Sheiks f-tilt or Zamus's Dsmash. Fox is a character who is easy to be comboed. He is built that way.

What about other chain grabs? IC's are INCREDIBLY hard to pull off, and they only work if your opponent still has nana alive. And the IC's have almost no approach, and their grab range sucks.

Dedede's Chain grab is really good, and very difficult to avoid because of his huge grab range. But it doesn't auto win the game (unless it's a certain 5 characters, but the infinite should be banned, because it's easy to pull off, is a gurranted win, and doesn't take anything other than good timing). But if you watch some vids of pro brawlers, even when they get CG'ed like 5 times, they can still win. Amd Dedede is very vulnerable to chain grabs himself. So that isn't very unfair, because the existence of CG is also one of his weaknesses. Pikachu's Fthrow is up to 80, baring the stage running out, and d3 can't CG pika.

Or falco? He goes to 52% at best, signifigantly lower on lots of characters, and the combo into Dair won't gimp you if you have practiced for 5 mins against it. It's really just damage.

But most of all, how can you justify that Chain Grabbing is unfair when you want all items/stages legal? The Fan is almost a gaurenteed free 100%+ damage on anyone, anytime, and A random spawning Bomb-omb will you because you attacked when IT WASN'T EVEN THERE! Or maybe flat zone 2 is fair? Ever gotten chair locked? Or Bthrown to death at 0 because you are too close to the edge of the stage?

Look, if you don't want to deal with Chain grabbing, fine. Ban it in your playgroup. But don't come on to a forum about competetive play and tell us we are wrong/cheap/unmanly, because it only shows your own ignorance.

 

[Carsonist]

Pikachu doesn't have very much kill options at lower percents, so he must raise them up to where he can KO. And chaingrabbing is a really efficient way to get this done.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

Pikachu doesn't have very much kill options at lower percents, so he must raise them up to where he can KO. And chaingrabbing is a really efficient way to get this done.

Um, Lol. Even without the chain grab, he can can rack up damage really quickly. Quac much?

 

[XienZo]

Pikachu doesn't have very much kill options at lower percents, so he must raise them up to where he can KO. And chaingrabbing is a really efficient way to get this done.

Against fox? Just walk up and c-stick down or short hop anything. Or just knock off ledge and keep a stream of thunders going down the ledge.

 

[B0mbe1c]

CGs help build Damage, and give you the advantage...

 

[K 2]

Pikachu is a fast charater built for comboing. Fox just has to be unfortunant enough to be the fastest falling character in the game, which makes him easy to be combo'd with. I can put 20-30% on fox everytime I attack him with pikachu. Pika can **** fox even without CGs...

If you're going to ban CG's, you might as well ban locks (banana lock, sheik's ftilt lock, fox's utilt lock, etc) since they are unescapable until 30-40%, which is where most CG's end...

 

[Veggi]

There's a huge difference between having a chance to stall someone and stalling someone without problem nor having a large chance of getting hit. Besides, IDC doesn't need the opponent to start the movement AND you can't attack them once they're moving around with it. So it's even worst than a chaingrab, in which it only lasts until the end of the stage or out of the character's range.

You can attack someone while they are chaingrabbing? Also, the IDC is obviously more overpowered than chaingrabbing. It has no place to say it because people got rid of it for being cheap. That's the point here, and it still stands.

The obvious flaw in this logic is the fact that the infinite cape completely devolves the game and is 100% unstoppable, unpunishable, and unbeatable... except by IDCing in response.

Banning the IDC wasn't because of honor or anything like that; it was banned because of common sense.

That's false. The only way MK can win by doing that is if you give him the lead and enough space to use it. So it was banned because of honor.

If you're truly competitive, using whatever tools that are most effective against each character should be self explanatory. If Pikachu is capable of 0-80% Fthrow chaingrabs, and the situation is competitive, why would the Pikachu player not use it? There is no "honor" in competitive battling- you're not there to make friends, you're there to win. Ultimately, the effectiveness shown by your character, and by extension, yourself, will be remembered, while your "cheap" (scrubs word for effecient) tactics will not be held against you. IDC was banned because it's an unbeatable tactic against EVERY character, and with his transcedental priority, it's easy to get one hit and run away for the rest of the match. The only thing that could let MK lose would be his lack of technical skill, and with Mk's ability to rack up damage, it's hard for an opponent to not get hit unless they stall themselves.

So then it would be cheap, correct? It also is not unbeatable, MK has to be in the lead and have enough space to use it.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

its not that hard for MK to take the lead especially if theres enough space for him to gimp. its banned cause its a stalling tactic. he could do it in the start of the match and then wait out the clock until its low enough that he only needs 1ko to win, once he gets that KO he can go back to IDC state.

 

[K 2]

IDC is unbeatable. If the user is smart and has enough technical skill, he can easily win every match by simply jabbing his opponenent and IDC's for the next 7:55 minutes. Chaingrabbing isn't infinite (with exceptions - DDD, and IC) and it can easily be avoided. If you space properly, you shouldn't be grabbed in the first place. Your opponent can do NOTHING when you IDC and they can do NOTHING to stop it, which they can air dodge/attack out of a CG when they reach a certain percent (usually 30-40%)

 

[JigglyZelda003]

or, as long as its not Falco, and even then quite a few CGs end at the end of the stage too.

 

[Veggi]

IDC is unbeatable. If the user is smart and has enough technical skill, he can easily win every match by simply jabbing his opponenent and IDC's for the next 7:55 minutes. Chaingrabbing isn't infinite (with exceptions - DDD, and IC) and it can easily be avoided. If you space properly, you shouldn't be grabbed in the first place. Your opponent can do NOTHING when you IDC and they can do NOTHING to stop it, which they can air dodge/attack out of a CG when they reach a certain percent (usually 30-40%)

It doesn't matter how cheap it is, it got banned for being cheap. That perfectly justifies my original statement, people that say that cheap isn't a good reason to ban something contradict themselves if they agree with the IDC ban. That's all I'm here to prove.

 

[Flayl]

It doesn't matter how cheap it is, it got banned for being cheap. That perfectly justifies my original statement, people that say that cheap isn't a good reason to ban something contradict themselves if they agree with the IDC ban. That's all I'm here to prove.

It got banned for being BROKEN.

 

[Barge]

There's no such thing as cheap in competitive play. Only lack of getting around it.

 

[XienZo]

It doesn't matter how cheap it is, it got banned for being cheap. That perfectly justifies my original statement, people that say that cheap isn't a good reason to ban something contradict themselves if they agree with the IDC ban. That's all I'm here to prove.

It got banned for stagnating the metagame. Or the obvious potential to.