D
Deleted member
Guest
the short answer is "better positioning".
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Important Carefully Ask PPMD about the Tiara Guy
- Thread starter Cactuar
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Normally, I'd be on your side Umbreon...but if he's killing with uthrow > dair each time, is it really something he should stop? Not that he should fish for the grab in that particular spot, but that seems a bit too good to pass up (this is probably an exception to your better positioning rule?)
D
Deleted member
Guest
you're examining the example as case-specific. i was answering bones when he turned it into a macro statement.
i have no opinion on upthrow > dair other than i use it occasionally.
i am wary of those kinds of generalizations.
i have no opinion on upthrow > dair other than i use it occasionally.
i am wary of those kinds of generalizations.
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Yeah, I definitely agree with your response there, then.
While combos are certainly examples of stage positioning, I can think of enough instances where "dropping" the combo is better for positioning than continuing it and risking them getting an edgecancel or escaping it through some other method.
While combos are certainly examples of stage positioning, I can think of enough instances where "dropping" the combo is better for positioning than continuing it and risking them getting an edgecancel or escaping it through some other method.
Bing
Smash Master
Well yes when I do it I am killing with it, but my issue is that I don't know if its garuanteed. I suppose that if I get the throw and as I leap into the air I notice he's too high/not in position I could just up-air and go for the juggle.
Bones0
Smash Legend
I was speaking specifically about uthrow -> dair. Of course ending combos earlier (or not going for them at all) can be optimal when it means better positioning.
If you can't tell when it will combo intuitively, just go into Training Mode and figure out the percents. The only characters you're really ever going to be doing it to are Fox and Falco anyway.
If you can't tell when it will combo intuitively, just go into Training Mode and figure out the percents. The only characters you're really ever going to be doing it to are Fox and Falco anyway.
Bing
Smash Master
Meh, fair enough.
beencake
Smash Apprentice
Up throw by the ledge is better than down throw with Marth.
LIED!!!
LIED!!!
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
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Okay, I'm getting really annoyed at trying to get consistent with dropping through the platform while in shield. Does anyone know what sort thing goes into determining control stick input? As far as I can tell, it seems to be at least related to distance and speed.
Bones0
Smash Legend
There's a thread in Melee Discussion. Just search the forum for "shield drop."
Bing
Smash Master
For some reason I've always been against D-throw near the ledge at low-mid percents. I used to always want to dair and mess it up, so now I'm in the habit of up-throwing to try and build percent.
D
Deleted member
Guest
there are tons of them. fox's entire character is based around leaving you in a gay position after a combo.
beencake
Smash Apprentice
Same as doing a spot dodge, but slower with the control stick, almost like a tilt move. You can dash shield drop too, but im not sure about those lol.
beencake
Smash Apprentice
Im confused, are you guys talking about legit combos, or consistent attacks that seem hard to get out of lol. Id say about 10% of the **** in this game combos lol. Good smash DI will get you out of ALOT of ****. Especially Marth dude, he has like no LEGIT combos anyways, id say Consistent Uairs is about as close as you're getting, and those arent even combos imo. Most of the time it seems like a combo because you chose the wrong option, or wrong way to DI.
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
Looks like they're talking about what seemingly is a combo. A lot of things combo when you want to get percent and character specific. But yeah, Marth is combo lacking as a whole.
A combo is usually something that is very difficult or impossible to escape in a given scenario and the situation arises at multiple percents against multiple characters.
A combo is usually something that is very difficult or impossible to escape in a given scenario and the situation arises at multiple percents against multiple characters.
Bones0
Smash Legend
If we're talking about spacies, there's no reason to dair them after dthrow. You should be looking out for immediate DJs back onto the stage, and everything else you can dtilt (or whiff the dtilt and just react to whatever recovery they choose).
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
I really think a dair over anything else is just being stylish and adding unnecessary difficulty while covering less options. After a d throw versus a space animal I can't see a reason to jump in such a way by or on the ledge (so you can be in a position to survive the dair) so like bones0 said, dtilt and or do whatever else (I like jabbing recovering space animals because it's pretty forgiving on your part and you [as in marth] don't have to think about it all that much)
Bing
Smash Master
I don't do it anymore, but its like made me scared to d-throw off the ledge from some reason, basically one bad habit turned into another. I rarely dair(basically ledgehops and the uthrow thing I mentioned earlier - Or other obvious situations). Otherwise I just cover the ledge with tilts and such.
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
I can actually relate to that almost 100% lol. When I first started Marth I would always fthrow fsmash. Any given situation, any percent.
Bing
Smash Master
I got into that habit too... damn computers...
Mahie
Smash Lord
If the opponent can't do anything it's a combo.
That includes both being in hitstun, and not being in it but not having anything fast enough to retaliate with anyway.
That includes both being in hitstun, and not being in it but not having anything fast enough to retaliate with anyway.
beencake
Smash Apprentice
Down throw D-tilt is definitely best option by the ledge imo, Fsmash is good too, it pretty much goes under the stage lol.
beencake
Smash Apprentice
Once i see a Marth beat M2k or KKs Shiek, ill be convinced hes a good char ^__^
That's not likely to happen, simply because:
1) M2K is also the best Marth, and he clearly can't beat himself. KK and M2K are better players in general than any Marth, except PP. And I'm not sure he'd want to Marth (yes, it's a verb) Sheiks, because...
2) Marths have to work harder vs. Sheik. I still believe Sheik has a slight advantage, though on some stages I see it as neutral.
So, the beencake character-good-ness-test isn't a good one. "Once I see x character beat the best two players of a (minor) counterpick, then I'll be convinced he's good."
1) M2K is also the best Marth, and he clearly can't beat himself. KK and M2K are better players in general than any Marth, except PP. And I'm not sure he'd want to Marth (yes, it's a verb) Sheiks, because...
2) Marths have to work harder vs. Sheik. I still believe Sheik has a slight advantage, though on some stages I see it as neutral.
So, the beencake character-good-ness-test isn't a good one. "Once I see x character beat the best two players of a (minor) counterpick, then I'll be convinced he's good."
RFrizzle
Smash Ace
Dude shroomed beat KK **** off with your whiny like 5th best char stuff
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
Ganondorf has also beaten great characters and great players before too.
So ****ing what?
So ****ing what?
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RFrizzle basically posted my thoughts. Go into the Doc boards and say Marth sucks, LOL.
D
Deleted member
Guest
LOL immediately hated out.
real talk though i could see a few marths beating KK. not a slam onto his ability, but marth is a good character in super smash bros melee.
real talk though i could see a few marths beating KK. not a slam onto his ability, but marth is a good character in super smash bros melee.
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
I prefer SB, im pretty sure it reaches under the stage more. If it doesn't, I should stop doing it lol.
I like how you said Super Smash Bros Melee for emphasis Umbreon
linkoninja
Smash Journeyman
Guys, what makes a good Marth?
Serious question... I'm getting back into Melee and my main is Marth so I'm just wondering what makes a good Marth.
Serious question... I'm getting back into Melee and my main is Marth so I'm just wondering what makes a good Marth.
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
One that edge guards well and has the ability to control the stage in such away that the opponent is working with less space than you are (m2k)
That's a broad question and a broad answer lol
That's a broad question and a broad answer lol
Elyssa Xey Hexen
Broken!
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Someone put it well before that all players in the upper levels tend to be great in different aspects, but not as a whole. M2k is just a good player. I think M2k probably gets crowned for a great punishment game against spacies, but not sure about the rest.
Number one important quality. Consistency.
Number one important quality. Consistency.
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
I disagree with that post so deeply.
M2K is just someone who gimps spaces?
M2K is just someone who gimps spaces?
Mahie
Smash Lord
Consistency. Reactivity. Patience.
Like pretty much all other characters, to be honest.
I don't particularly like M2K's Marth either, btw.
Like pretty much all other characters, to be honest.
I don't particularly like M2K's Marth either, btw.
BTmoney
a l l b e c o m e $
That's interesting. I'm not calling you out or testing your credibility or anything but I want to know why you feel that way.
I marvel at M2k's marth and since he's far and away the best Marth there's a lot to take from him. Although PP's performance recently clearly proved he knows how to play Marth at the highest level.
Imo
I marvel at M2k's marth and since he's far and away the best Marth there's a lot to take from him. Although PP's performance recently clearly proved he knows how to play Marth at the highest level.
Imo
Mahie
Smash Lord
It's not that I dislike his Marth per se, I just think he does things out of comfort that he shouldn't be doing at all, including preemptive moves and non optimal combos, or even in terms of positioning, and I wish he would not do these, he'd be so much better.
Juushichi
sugoi ~ sugoi ~
well, you've got a melee mindset so yeah that seems ******** now
Mahie
Smash Lord
Care to explain why that's ********? Unless you have something not guaranteed that has more than 50% chances to work, and has a good reward to risk ratio, then sure, but otherwise your old definition was fine, and especially as Marth, it is definitely the proper one.
ChivalRuse
Smash Hero
Shield breaker isn't that good for edgeguarding because of the startup. You have to guess when you use it usually rather than react.I prefer SB, im pretty sure it reaches under the stage more. If it doesn't, I should stop doing it lol.
I like how you said Super Smash Bros Melee for emphasis Umbreon