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Can't Let you cut me Sakurai, Wolf for DLC

Tino

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Rosalina vs. Wolf is a matchup I'm looking forward to the most if he returns. I get chills down my spine just thinking about it.
 
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PurpleSoda

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Rosalina vs. Wolf is a matchup I'm looking forward to the most if he returns. I get chills down my spine just thinking about it.
He needs to be the counter of Rosalina,we dont need her broken recovery(FALCO'S DAIR DOES NOT KILL ROSALUMA AT 160%)
Unless they nerf the recovery to be balanced,AND I KNOW THAT SHE IS A SPACE DEITY,BUT THIS IS EARTH,NOT MARS OR THE FREAKN MOON
 

Tino

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He needs to be the counter of Rosalina,we dont need her broken recovery(FALCO'S DAIR DOES NOT KILL ROSALUMA AT 160%)
Unless they nerf the recovery to be balanced,AND I KNOW THAT SHE IS A SPACE DEITY,BUT THIS IS EARTH,NOT MARS OR THE FREAKN MOON
She still a space character regardless of where she is though.
 

Jestar

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Wolf vs. Rosalina on either Mario Galaxy, Lylat Cruise or Orbital Gate Assault would be legit since those are all space stages and would fit the space theme that they share. Rainbow Road would work too if you play the 3DS version.
 

Logo12

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She still a space character regardless of where she is though.
but stair fax characters are space characters too

Though in the end I would only care about Game and Watch matchup, since my brother only ever plays as him.
If we are lucky, we should get a Direct announced tomorrow.
Same could be said every day lol
 

Ura

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I was actually calling that a couple of times in other threads. That would be a great indirect birthday present for me if there was a direct on Wednesday lol.
 

Tino

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If we are lucky, we should get a Direct announced tomorrow.
On the day of my birthday, that would be something. But I wouldn't say "lucky" though.
but stair fax characters are space characters too

Though in the end I would only care about Game and Watch matchup, since my brother only ever plays as him.
That's why I not only main Rosalina but also Falco too and Fox is my secondary. I've been so into space characters these days.
 

Koopaul

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I'm pretty sure Wolf is coming back more than any other cut veteran. But they'll save him for when Star Fox Zero reveals Wolf.
 

OranGiraffe

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Well, Wolf will need a new BAir, since Falco has his now. Right?
I´m trying really hard to make Falco work in Smash 4, but he just needs a little more buffs. D:

I miss Wolf so much...
Falco functions strangely in Sm4sh relative to older games imo (I guess most do but still). All it takes is practice, and once you learn the flow of his ground into aerial strings, he becomes so fun. Good? a little bit. I wouldn't say Falco is bad in Sm4sh anymore, and that to me gives me the confidence to do well against players that use higher tier characters. Pocket Sheiks no longer are a threat to me, only Sheik mains, and players well beyond my skill level.

Honestly, in my selfish opinion, I like how Falco is now. I feel like I'm playing an honest character that I get results with equal to the work I put in.
 

shane3x

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I didn't mean that he was a guarantee (I do think is likely though) but you stated that if he gets in, that would be his last hoorah before he disappears forever. I don't see how he would "disappear forever" if he becomes DLC. It hasn't happened to any other Smash character whose series is still going, and even characters whose series seems to have ended (retros, Earthbound, F-Zero) haven't disappeared forever, because they still appear in Smash.

EDIT: But if you want a proper answer, post that to the K. Rool thread instead of here. There are people who can answer to that better than me.
I already answered that. Snake currently is one, Ryu is likely. Ice Climbers are also another one. Yes they disappeared in this instance because of tech issues with the 3DS, however Sakurai did state that it was also unlikely they'd ever get another game soon. If relevance can kill off characters it will also be a factor in them not being brought in.

Based on the fact that he is popular, as you mentioned, but he is another Donkey Kong rep, AND another villain, AANNNNDDD another heavyweight, AAANNNNNDDDD he is perfectly unique. You are acting like relevance is the only thing that ever matters in order to get into Smash. The costume does not make that big of a dent in King K. Rool's chances. You would say that we have never had a newcomer be a costume and then be a DLC characters, blah, blah, blah, but saying that this means K. Rool is out is jumping to EXTREME conclusions.

Golden Sun is relatively well known among Nintendo fans. It has had 3 games, and if the Kid Icarus clan got three (please go ahead and say Sakurai "bias", I know that is exactly the excuse you will make) characters from 3 games, Golden Sun can sure as hell get one. Isaac has Psynergy and Earth/Plant/Air/other element based attacks, and we don't have many characters that have that diversity or uniqueness. Isaac has never, ever been a long shot.
Relevance is one factor out of many. In all his canon representations he also is huge, not Ridley huge but huge enough where it may be possible Sakurai would not be happy with the representation portrayed size wise to warrant not being in there. Wow, you can ignore the signs pointing against things all you want but they don't magically disappear because you choose to turn a blind eye.

Golden sun is a Niche Nintendo Series. Most Nintendo fans wouldn't know it. Sakurai obviously helps KI, but its hard a game at least within the last few years being a full reboot as opposed to an entry 5 years ago. Sakurai Bias only applies to Dark Pit and thats more Sakurai being lazy as opposed to Bias. He'll go next game and 2 reps is fine at least they offer something different. The series hasn't sold well and if Ice Climbers can be cut partly due to relevancy then a less popular chartacter (compared to IC) is a long shot.

Although thats assuming we have 4 more characters in total coming.

Edit: Vote Wolf

http://smashboards.com/threads/rate...n-day-112-wolf-and-solo-midna.398604/page-222

Wolf
Want: 100%
Chance: 100%

Wolf has always been top 3 among popularity and currently the most likely to return in chance. He currently is the combined overall most likely and popular character compared to other characters within top 3 of both lists. Snake is unlikely due to Konami and K.Rool's chances aren't as high as people think they are confusing that with popularity (Smash Ballot is not a popularity contest or vote).

He is a veteran from the previous game, so far DLC has heavily been in favour of Veterans, due to the fact they already have some assets (Animations, Art, Sounds etc.) already existing he would have an incredibly quick turnaround time for development.

Wolf represents for the Star Fox series what Fox and Falco do not, an Anti-Hero, a Villian and a Rival.

The most likely reason that he was cut, was that he actually wasn't cut just that others got higher development priority and to not spoil the new look early to coincide with the new game. With the upcoming Star Fox Zer game being a reimagining of the Original 64 game, Wolf would most likely be based off his look in that game instead of his Assault/GameCube Era Skin (Although that could be a alternative skin for him. You could argue Fox looks the same in Brawl as he does in Smash 4 so why would things be different for Wolf? If you actually had played any of the Star Fox games you would notice that Fox in Brawl and Smash4 look nothing like any of the games he has actually been in. It's very coincidental that his representation in the last 2 smash games actually resemble the upcoming new Star Fox Zero game the most given he looks nothing like the other SF games he has been in.

The new Star Fox Zero also gives a good opportunity to cross promote. A possible pre-order SFZ and get Wolf in Smash DLC for free and early similar to Mewtwo would be a opportunity for Nintendo not only to introduce the Star Fox series to a new generation but also boost sales of both games.

The "He is a clone" is nonsense argument for why he was cut and is based on complete ignorance from a casual observer. The developers have stated which characters are Clones and Wolf is not on that list. When you compared his moveset and properties they are also completely different (http://www.ssbwiki.com/User:Toomai/Cloneosity).

At the moment we are likely to get 4 more DLC characters. The chance of Wolf not having one of the slots is completely ludicrous beyond belief.
 
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I already answered that. Snake currently is one, Ryu is likely. Ice Climbers are also another one. Yes they disappeared in this instance because of tech issues with the 3DS, however Sakurai did state that it was also unlikely they'd ever get another game soon. If relevance can kill off characters it will also be a factor in them not being brought in.
I meant that they wouldn't disappear from their own series after appearing in Smash. And I don't think relevancy will matter as much as it did when deciding the base game's roster, especially if characters like K. Rool and Isaac are the most requested ones.
 
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shane3x

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I meant that they wouldn't disappear from their own series after appearing in Smash. And I don't think relevancy will matter as much as it did when deciding the base game's roster, especially if characters like K. Rool and Isaac are the most requested ones.
What was his last canon appearance, Literally 16 years ago in DK64? I can't recall anything later which wasn't a spinoff or something in which he actually played a major or relevant role. They always have that option of bringing him back but I'd say if a series can go 16 years without a character they've mostly moved on.
 
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What was his last canon appearance, Literally 16 years ago in DK64? They always have that option of bringing him back but I'd say if a series can go 16 years without a character they've mostly moved on.
DK: Jungle Climber, released in 2007 (and Mario Super Sluggers in 2008, but that's not a DK game). And Retro has acknowledged K. Rool's popularity. But if you want to detract K. Rool, post that to the K. Rool thread instead of posting it here.
 
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Mellos

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Falco functions strangely in Sm4sh relative to older games imo (I guess most do but still). All it takes is practice, and once you learn the flow of his ground into aerial strings, he becomes so fun. Good? a little bit. I wouldn't say Falco is bad in Sm4sh anymore, and that to me gives me the confidence to do well against players that use higher tier characters. Pocket Sheiks no longer are a threat to me, only Sheik mains, and players well beyond my skill level.

Honestly, in my selfish opinion, I like how Falco is now. I feel like I'm playing an honest character that I get results with equal to the work I put in.

No, don´t get me wrong, I LOVE how he plays in Smash 4, even more like he worked in Brawl, but he just isn´t quite there.
I main him since release and I love this character to death, but he could use a little less lag here and there + better scaling knockback on some aereals.
 

shane3x

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DK: Jungle Climber, released in 2007. And Retro has acknowledged K. Rool's popularity. But if you want to detract K. Rool, post that to the K. Rool thread instead of posting it here.
People don't listen to facts they just circle jerk defend to the death, might as well ask a bird to fly into a cat's mouth. Everywhere except a characters own thread is a more neutral discussion zone. He isn't guaranteed that's for sure. His renown is decent enough, his chances not so much but better a lot of the more questionable suggestions flying around.

No, don´t get me wrong, I LOVE how he plays in Smash 4, even more like he worked in Brawl, but he just isn´t quite there.
I main him since release and I love this character to death, but he could use a little less lag here and there + better scaling knockback on some aereals.
There are also some moves which might not translate well given the different engine properties and all. Fox and Falco are quite different indeed although I hope whatever they do they keep the core playstyle intact.
 
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People don't listen to facts they just circle jerk defend to the death, might as well ask a bird to fly into a cat's mouth. Everywhere except a characters own thread is a more neutral discussion zone.
This reminds me of the Bandana Dee situation, you detract the character here, but don't dare to post your arguments to the support thread (although in Dee's case you were outright insulting the character and the support thread). If you want to detract the character, but don't dare to go to the support thread, you could at least use the DLC Character Discussion thread.
 

shane3x

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This reminds me of the Bandana Dee situation, you detract the character here, but don't dare to post your arguments to the support thread (although in Dee's case you were outright insulting the character and the support thread). If you want to detract the character, but don't dare to go to the support thread, you could at least use the DLC Character Discussion thread.
I've told those people if they want to PM me or discuss the character in any other thread they are more then welcome to. They don't because they know people actually use reason and know there are a combination of Pro's and cons for any character but would rather not hear the cons because oh noes must be hatin not allowed to say anything bad about anyone in case your feelings are hurtz oh noe!!!!!!

Nothing should ever go unchallenged, positive or negatively speaking. If you speak positively about K.Rool *in the Wolf thread* then don't be suprised if someone points out valid points that don't speak positively. I do speak about other characters in non-character threads.
 
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Nothing should ever go unchallenged, positive or negatively speaking. If you speak positively about K.Rool *in the Wolf thread* then don't be suprised if someone points out valid points that don't speak positively. I do speak about other characters in non-character threads.
I'm not going to continue this argument anymore, this is Wolf's thread, K. Rool should be discussed on his own thread or DLC Character Discussion thread, and if you don't dare to post your arguments to either thread, then it's pointless to continue.

And for that PM thing, where did you actually say that? If you just posted it into this thread, they probably aren't aware of it. I've never seen you post that to the K. Rool's thread, at least.
 

shane3x

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I'm not going to continue this argument anymore, this is Wolf's thread, K. Rool should be discussed on his own thread or DLC Character Discussion thread, and if you don't dare to post your arguments to either thread, then it's pointless to continue.

And for that PM thing, where did you actually say that? If you just posted it into this thread, they probably aren't aware of it. I've never seen you post that to the K. Rool's thread, at least.
The Dee thread. No K.Rool fans (that I know of) have asked me to expand or clarify any position or points I've had. They aren't as blind to his issues as other threads are of their own characters issues which is actually refreshing.

You can't add to what you perceive as an argument and then say alright no more that's not how it works if you don't want to talk about it just don't and avoid backhanding it. Entirely missed the point it seems. Whenever people say stuff about Wolf I don't ask them to come to the Wolf thread to justify themselves because they aren't stupid. Neutral posting zones actually have healthy and reasonable discussion.
 
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The Dee thread. No K.Rool fans (that I know of) have asked me to expand or clarify any position or points I've had. They aren't as blind to his issues as other threads are of their own characters issues which is actually refreshing.

You can't add to what you perceive as an argument and then say alright no more that's not how it works if you don't want to talk about it just don't and avoid backhanding it. Entirely missed the point it seems. Whenever people say stuff about Wolf I don't ask them to come to the Wolf thread to justify themselves because they aren't stupid. Neutral posting zones actually have healthy and reasonable discussion.
Okay, I agree. I'm not very experienced with countering arguments, I hoped that some user that is used to answering detractor's arguments would try to answer your's. But I still think you should use the Character Discussion thread for detracting, it is a neutral place, and this thread is not meant for discussing other characters than Wolf.
 

Logo12

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This reminds me of the Bandana Dee situation, you detract the character here, but don't dare to post your arguments to the support thread (although in Dee's case you were outright insulting the character and the support thread). If you want to detract the character, but don't dare to go to the support thread, you could at least use the DLC Character Discussion thread.
I tried this several times with Krystal, and you know it won't end well *points to Chico*

Anything that makes sense for you will never make sense for people who don't want to believe the point in the first place.

Though there's something better than just ranting like this, ofc

I dunno, you think it's a good idea you ran and counter every single one who rated low for Wolf? I can see it being your style of doing things, but it just seems that your post look much more like a Wolf campaign than an actual RTC. You completely disregarding everything else that is not Wolf, lel
 

shane3x

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Okay, I agree. I'm not very experienced with countering arguments, I hoped that some user that is used to answering detractor's arguments would try to answer your's. But I still think you should use the Character Discussion thread for detracting, it is a neutral place, and this thread is not meant for discussing other characters than Wolf.
I'm not detracting. Like I said:

Nothing should ever go unchallenged, positive or negatively speaking. If you speak positively about K.Rool *in the Wolf thread* then don't be suprised if someone points out valid points that don't speak positively. I do speak about other characters in non-character threads.
You'll notice we've only had news and topics of discussion which at best have vague references to Wolf or Wolf being in Smash as DLC. We've not had any direct information in regards to Wolf, something relating to Wolf, or Star Fox Zero in ages. Once all the relevant talking topics have been discussed after a while if we have nothing things go slightly off-topic. It happens. Trust me if someone wants to ask something or some news happens everyone will literally talk about it.

I tried this several times with Krystal, and you know it won't end well *points to Chico*

Anything that makes sense for you will never make sense for people who don't want to believe the point in the first place.

Though there's something better than just ranting like this, ofc


I dunno, you think it's a good idea you ran and counter every single one who rated low for Wolf? I can see it being your style of doing things, but it just seems that your post look much more like a Wolf campaign than an actual RTC. You completely disregarding everything else that is not Wolf, lel
A dicussion is a discussion. I'm not saying they are wrong or aren't allowed to think that. There were plenty of neutral points about things people said about Wolf, like the guy who gave Wolf 50% but at least provided a logical reason for it and have a basis for it. If people think im running a wolf campaign they clearly read the %'s only and then didn't read the giant wall of text in the middle. Thread itself allows for debate in its rules so its not like I am free to discuss or question things.
 
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Logo12

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A dicussion is a discussion. I'm not saying they are wrong or aren't allowed to think that. There were plenty of neutral points about things people said about Wolf, like the guy who gave Wolf 50% but at least provided a logical reason for it and have a basis for it. If people think im running a wolf campaign they clearly read the %'s only and then didn't read the giant wall of text in the middle. Thread itself allows for debate in its rules so its not like I am free to discuss or question things.
I read the giant text, and that's why I feel like you're running a campaign more.

Maybe it's just me.

Oh and btw, you're supposed to nominate other characters for RTCing, not characters today (and the characters being in cool off period before they can receive rerate nominations). Also the max is 5.
 
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I feel like a fool after my arguments....

I
A dicussion is a discussion. I'm not saying they are wrong or aren't allowed to think that. There were plenty of neutral points about things people said about Wolf, like the guy who gave Wolf 50% but at least provided a logical reason for it and have a basis for it. If people think im running a wolf campaign they clearly read the %'s only and then didn't read the giant wall of text in the middle. Thread itself allows for debate in its rules so its not like I am free to discuss or question things.
I'm not sure if 100% chance ratings are allowed to any character, even extremely likely characters like Wolf, unless they're leaked (though you gave a very convicing explanation for your rating)... but then again, one guy was allowed give a minor third-party character 85% and he was clearly biased, but it was still counted.
 

shane3x

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I feel like a fool after my arguments....

I'm not sure if 100% chance ratings are allowed to any character, even extremely likely characters like Wolf, unless they're leaked (though you gave a very convicing explanation for your rating)... but then again, one guy was allowed give a minor third-party character 85% and he was clearly biased, but it was still counted.

how much we want them on a scale of 0%-100%
1. Characters must originate from a video game and they must have been featured on at least one Nintendo console.

2. You're allowed to debate but no flame wars.

3. Please do not discuss a character after their day has ended.

In case you're confused, here's post outline detailing what your posts will look like:
Doesn't say anywhere it isn't allowed. Besides it comes with a detailed write up anyway so why people may not agree with it as much as they want at least I provide a basis. I think any % that doesn't come with a reasonable explanation should not be counted if any.

I read the giant text, and that's why I feel like you're running a campaign more.

Maybe it's just me.

Oh and btw, you're supposed to nominate other characters for RTCing, not characters today (and the characters being in cool off period before they can receive rerate nominations). Also the max is 5.
So, simply because I like character the points I made were not valid? People are free to make comments and counter my points as much as they like, they won't because nothing said was without basis and is generally pretty tight unlike other people making comments and %'s with no explanation at all besides what side of the bed they woke up on. I saw other people nominating Wolf again and doing higher than 5 so assumed it was alright. I'll fix that.
 

Logo12

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I feel like a fool after my arguments....
That's very normal, as one who almost always run into arguments.
Just get over it, and move ahead.

Oh and btw, this thread can use some more Wolf votes.

So, simply because I like character the points I made were not valid? People are free to make comments and counter my points as much as they like, they won't because nothing said was without basis and is generally pretty tight unlike other people making comments and %'s with no explanation at all besides what side of the bed they woke up on. I saw other people nominating Wolf again and doing higher than 5 so assumed it was alright. I'll fix that.
Eh, I didn't say that. I just feel that you went out to counter everyone's point is a bit... strange. Nothing wrong with that.

Oh, and for those who gave 10 nominations, it's those who won the prediction yesterday.
 
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shane3x

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Eh, I didn't say that. I just feel that you went out to counter everyone's point is a bit... strange. Nothing wrong with that.
Asking for context and clarification is not strange and like I said not everyone I responded to was to "Counter" as in my example of commending the 50% chance number reason, considering the OP itself prefers explanation's in addition to the %'s to justify them. Strange is a % with little to no context or explanation. Of course I'm not going to be the OP Police I'm only going to care about reasonably explained %'s for specific characters.
 
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That's very normal, as one who almost always run into arguments.
Just get over it, and move ahead.

Oh and btw, this thread can use some more Wolf votes.
Yes, I already posted my list and I had Wolf as #3 on it.

Doesn't say anywhere it isn't allowed. Besides it comes with a detailed write up anyway so why people may not agree with it as much as they want at least I provide a basis. I think any % that doesn't come with a reasonable explanation should not be counted if any.
Yes, you're right, it's probably allowed as long as there is a reasonable explanation. BTW, the guy who gave the minor third-party character 85% chance actually had an explanation, but I still don't think it should've been counted (considering that character wasn't even main character of the series and barely has any demand).
 

Logo12

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Asking for context and clarification is not strange and like I said not everyone I responded to was to "Counter" as in my example of commending the 50% chance number reason, considering the OP itself prefers explanation's in addition to the %'s to justify them. Strange is a % with little to no context or explanation. Of course I'm not going to be the OP Police I'm only going to care about reasonably explained %'s for specific characters.
Really, many people don't explain much on the %. In fact there are plenty of 90+% votes that have no explanation, sooo

BTW, if we're really going for a big big article on Wolf's chances, I want to help. I wanted to post a lengthy post just like you but I was at (construction-y) work so I couldn't speak much.
 

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Post your face when Wolf's Final Smash is changed.

:wolf: We're gonna have fun with dis thang!

sssshhhh let me dream
 

shane3x

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Yes, you're right, it's probably allowed as long as there is a reasonable explanation. BTW, the guy who gave the minor third-party character 85% chance actually had an explanation, but I still don't think it should've been counted (considering that character wasn't even main character of the series and barely has any demand).
The OP seems to be on top of things, probably didn't count it.

Really, many people don't explain much on the %. In fact there are plenty of 90+% votes that have no explanation, sooo

BTW, if we're really going for a big big article on Wolf's chances, I want to help. I wanted to post a lengthy post just like you but I was at (construction-y) work so I couldn't speak much.
Which is nonsense but not my thread so he's fit to police or not police how he likes, although he has at least allowed the option for people to at least question what is being said within reason.

Yeah I had to get off work to before I could even post at all so go for it! I'm sure people are happy to help if you want any.

Edit: Apparently on some podcast a Nintendo Employee was told something along the lines of this by Sakurai

"-At 48:00 they talk about the Fox voice actor for Star Fox 64 and Smash 4 and how he was sad about the fan reaction to his voice on smash 4, but he is extremely excited to come back for Star Fox Zero and according to Chris he did his best work yet."

Not that it was needed but its at least some acknowledgement from Sakurai about SFZ.
 
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but stair fax characters are space characters too

Though in the end I would only care about Game and Watch matchup, since my brother only ever plays as him.
Your brother is a good person :)
If you play good with your main(Fox),and your brother is good with Game and Watch,then you need to practice
Wolf needs the good Sheik,Diddy,Rosaluma,Sonic,Fox,and Falco matchup(Falco becuase of Star Fox)
 

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Well to be honest I was gonna continue that K. Rool debate because his arguments were very easy to debunk... but then I read a bit and decided to stop. I am not the type of person that likes to end arguments, I LOVE debating, just so everyone knows for the future.

Anyway, the RTC thread looks depressing... I don't understand what people are voting for if they are saying Wolf and K. Rool have low chances now... and since a lot of people are being so pessimistic about all the popular characters it seems (Wolf, King K. Rool, Snake, Isaac, Bandana Dee), I have a hard time imagining what they think are better choices.
 

shane3x

Saint of Swords
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
656
Location
Australia
He said that he counted it. He also said that the character would have the lowest chance score if he hadn't counted the rating.
Does the OP itself get updated? Like I dont think results have been updated since day 20. Guess its not as disciplined as the Community Tier List.

Anyway, the RTC thread looks depressing... I don't understand what people are voting for if they are saying Wolf and K. Rool have low chances now... and since a lot of people are being so pessimistic about all the popular characters it seems (Wolf, King K. Rool, Snake, Isaac, Bandana Dee), I have a hard time imagining what they think are better choices.
Most people aren't basing it on anything logical and aren't really providing a baseline for things either. Hopefully we get some sort of new smash news soon that will bring people back up to reality.

Wouldn't say Dee or Isaac are top 5 but thats just me and the polls. Of course Snake is unlikely for various reasons and K.Rool's chances aren't as high as his relative popularity.
 
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