Can someone explain Pivot Grabbing?

[Deleted member]

The description on the Dojo is a little confusing, is this correct:

You dash TOWARDS your enemy, and BEFORE you get to them (not after) you press in the direction AWAY from your opponent and hit grab, and this gives your grab more range?

If this is accurate, why would pressing away from your opponent give you more range? And I'm assuming you have to do it just right so that you don't turn around instead of doing this...

 

[Tsukuyomi]

You know Pivoting where you dash one way, quickly turn around and do a smash or f-tilt attack... You know grabbing where you just... grab... Now combine both...

 

[Chepe]

I remember this being "discovered" by someone about a week ago... can someone link to that thread or a youtube video that shows it being done?

Kinda crazy it was intentional all along though. I really did believe that someone found some engine abuse... but its just as intentional as teching and short hops have always been...

 

[Mama]

I remember this being "discovered" by someone about a week ago... can someone link to that thread or a youtube video that shows it being done?

Kinda crazy it was intentional all along though. I really did believe that someone found some engine abuse... but its just as intentional as teching and short hops have always been...

Sigh...Someone points out something to you and rather than say "oh thats cool I can use that to get better" You wanted to whine about it and call it abuse? Technically it is an advanced technique for higher than basic play. Its a reverse grab. Do some research and you'll learn what it is. And next time someone brings something to light or points something out try not to be so anti pro Smash.

 

[Sariku]

Sigh...Someone points out something to you and rather than say "oh thats cool I can use that to get better" You wanted to whine about it and call it abuse? Technically it is an advanced technique for higher than basic play. Its a reverse grab. Do some research and you'll learn what it is. And next time someone brings something to light or points something out try not to be so anti pro Smash.

He wasn't being anti pro Smash >.> All he was saying is it's insane that people found these out days ago, but they claimed it wasn't supposed to be in the game, that the found a way to abuse the system. He said it's funny that it was actually implemented, and that Sakurai is mindgaming everyone with these new techniques.

Understand what people say before you make judgments on them.

 

[UrajKingofDarkness]

Wow mama, chill. While the term "abuse" may be strong, the above guy never said it was something bad, persay.

Wavedashing was, in a way, an abuse of the physics engine too, using the momentum of an air dodge angled at the ground at point blank range to use a character's traction (or more aptly put, lack of traction) to use as a means of locomotion. This gave certain characters (ie not Bowser) more movement than was probably originally intended for their playstyle (if you don't believe me, make a sound argument explaining why they'd make Luigi one of the fastest characters on the ground based solely on this mechanic).

Also, people need to stop flipping out about "advanced techniques" being discovered by a game whose core mechanics haven't even been fully tested.

As for the Topic Creator, it doesn't extend your FORWARD grab distance. If you dash at an opponent and try this, you'll just end up grabbing the way you came. The idea is, you still turn around and grab, but your grab range will be increased. So, to grab a person in FRONT of you with this, you'd have to dash away from the opponent, then pretty much instantly smash grab and the control stick TOWARDS your opponent, if that makes sense.

EDIT: Sariku beat me to my first point, and put it better. Well spoken.

 

[Galvanic]

So wait... this is like the Mario cartwheel jump from 64 and Galaxy, wherein he runs one way, quickly turns, and then jumps... except with grabbing, instead?

 

[DstyCube]

So wait... this is like the Mario cartwheel jump from 64 and Galaxy, wherein he runs one way, quickly turns, and then jumps... except with grabbing, instead?

Sure, if you want to think of it that way.

 

[Mama]

He wasn't being anti pro Smash >.> All he was saying is it's insane that people found these out days ago, but they claimed it wasn't supposed to be in the game, that the found a way to abuse the system. He said it's funny that it was actually implemented, and that Sakurai is mindgaming everyone with these new techniques.

Understand what people say before you make judgments on them.

They're not really new techniques since these things were around even in Melee. People have to understand that the developers learn just as much from the fans when they release a game. They don't sit there with a list of limits for something and then reject any attempt to go beyond. Thats what I find so silly about the whole "way Sakurai intended" mind set. As if the developer created something just to create it. Rather than spend years on a project put it in the hands of the fans and watch it grow.

 

[The Great Leon]

On a more technical note: to do this you actually hit the grab button a split second before you tap back, much like how one would jump cancel a grab in Melee. You would tap jump a split second before you grabbed. Different buttons and a different effect, but similar timing. This is useful when you are being chased hardcore and dash away then reverse grab, or if you abuse dash attack, get predictable, start getting shield grabbed, and run past your opponent and reverse grab them from behind. In regards to longer range, you do your dash-grab animation, which will probably reach farther than your standing grab animation.

 

[PanzerOceania]

Sigh...Someone points out something to you and rather than say "oh thats cool I can use that to get better" You wanted to whine about it and call it abuse? Technically it is an advanced technique for higher than basic play. Its a reverse grab. Do some research and you'll learn what it is. And next time someone brings something to light or points something out try not to be so anti pro Smash.

yeah, mama is right, the official name for officially confirmed advanced techniques from Sakurai as of now is "Quick Techniques" because they must be preformed with specific timing.

 

[Mama]

Wow mama, chill. While the term "abuse" may be strong, the above guy never said it was something bad, persay.

Wavedashing was, in a way, an abuse of the physics engine too, using the momentum of an air dodge angled at the ground at point blank range to use a character's traction (or more aptly put, lack of traction) to use as a means of locomotion. This gave certain characters (ie not Bowser) more movement than was probably originally intended for their playstyle (if you don't believe me, make a sound argument explaining why they'd make Luigi one of the fastest characters on the ground based solely on this mechanic).

Also, people need to stop flipping out about "advanced techniques" being discovered by a game whose core mechanics haven't even been fully tested.

As for the Topic Creator, it doesn't extend your FORWARD grab distance. If you dash at an opponent and try this, you'll just end up grabbing the way you came. The idea is, you still turn around and grab, but your grab range will be increased. So, to grab a person in FRONT of you with this, you'd have to dash away from the opponent, then pretty much instantly smash grab and the control stick TOWARDS your opponent, if that makes sense.

EDIT: Sariku beat me to my first point, and put it better. Well spoken.

I'm not upset at all lol. When I post I insult or talk down people if I feel they deserve it and I do it with a smile on. When someone uses the word abuse they're implying the misuse of some sort of establishment. I agree that people need to start flipping out over discovering mechanics but an advanced technique isn't a glitch or a bug or an oversight, its a play style/technique that simply goes beyond what the basic form of play establishes. Hence why simple things like short hopping and fast falling are considered advanced techniques.

If someone is playing Brawl and they discover something interesting they will post it online. It'll be seen by the fans and then tested to see if its useful, consistent, etc etc. The mistake comes in trying to give things that are as simple as short hopping a name or moniker. Thats something else that annoys me. The difference is that someone oblivious to this process of "improvement" would probably not advance very far until learning about them. And these could be things present since the beginning. Hence why they're dubbed advanced techniques.


Later given names to simplify things but now things are becoming more of a "I want to get known" race to discover this and that. All that will pass though as people progress... I forget what brought me onto this train of thought...

yeah, mama is right, the official name for officially confirmed advanced techniques from Sakurai as of now is "Quick Techniques" because they must be preformed with specific timing.

Lmao. I wouldn't be surprised if that became the new debate between pros and scrubs.

 

[Proven]

So wait... this is like the Mario cartwheel jump from 64 and Galaxy, wherein he runs one way, quickly turns, and then jumps... except with grabbing, instead?

Oy! It was in Sunshine too! I bet you didn't even play it.

Anyway, I doubt this is the last of Sakurai's "How To Play" updates, so I wonder what else will be found out in the next couple of weeks only to be debunked as not a glitch/game engine abuse.

It's funny, because I was just talking about how No More Heroes has a bunch of little extra moves in the game you wouldn't get from the manual as well.

 

[EpitomeX]

Anybody gonna link a video of it being done?

 

[SmashChu]

Sigh...Someone points out something to you and rather than say "oh thats cool I can use that to get better" You wanted to whine about it and call it abuse? Technically it is an advanced technique for higher than basic play. Its a reverse grab. Do some research and you'll learn what it is. And next time someone brings something to light or points something out try not to be so anti pro Smash.

OP, pivoting is programmed into the game. Thus, it isn't an advance technique. Keep searching.

 

[Mama]

Oy! It was in Sunshine too! I bet you didn't even play it.

Anyway, I doubt this is the last of Sakurai's "How To Play" updates, so I wonder what else will be found out in the next couple of weeks only to be debunked as not a glitch/game engine abuse.

It's funny, because I was just talking about how No More Heroes has a bunch of little extra moves in the game you wouldn't get from the manual as well.

Well he doesn't have too much time but I wouldn't be surprised either. I wouldn't be surprised of Sakurai was learning from the players as they went along and then posted his own interpretation of it lol.

I'm one to believe that just because it wasn't totally understood/know by the developers doesn't mean its the devil incarnate. Give things a chance hehe.

 

[courte]

wow
10 char

at all but post 1

 

[Galvanic]

Oy! It was in Sunshine too! I bet you didn't even play it.

Wow. You're psychic. Or a stalker.

I never had a GameCube. You are absolutely correct.

 

[Doomgaze]

OP, pivoting is programmed into the game. Thus, it isn't an advance technique. Keep searching.

I'm pretty sure L-cancelling was considered an adv teq in Melee.

 

[Cubelarooso]

Didn't read all this, but I did use Ctrl+F and didn't find any mention of it:
Doesn't this technique sound like the Ink Drop? If this is what it was, are we still going to call it that?

 

[Thino]

Didn't read all this, but I did use Ctrl+F and didn't find any mention of it:
Doesn't this technique sound like the Ink Drop? If this is what it was, are we still going to call it that?

If you mean like Ink Drop as that it was implemented intentionally, then I agree with you, but Im pretty sure we'll still cal it with our own slang

 

[Hellbeing]

While you and your enemy are running in one direction, and your ahead of them, quickly grab in the direction towards your follower. That is how it is done

Heres a picture of when it can be done

Enemy---running---> you----running---->

then

Enemy------> <--grab--- you -turn-->

Enemy->grabbed<-you

 

[frankisvital]

...anti pro Smash.

Hehehe.

10char

 

[err]

i was the one that 'discovered' this tech after playing my first 5 hrs of brawl last week. it's hella easy to perform. but im going to clarify thing:

notice i quoted 'discovered up above. Know why? cause i didn't want to seem like i was taking credit for a basic gameplay mechanic. in fact, in the original thread, my post was something less than 80 characters. i basically said "hey you can turn-around grab from dash!!1"

so,,., ya. its useful. i played brawl again last night against some human competition and it's a really fun crossup technique.

but yea..

 

[TobiasXK]

Sakurai's "pivoting" isn't our pivoting. There is a reverse grab that is programmed into the game and posted on the Dojo. You can also grab/attack on the pivot frame of a dashdance, just like in Melee. They're different things.

 

[Deleted member]

All of the characters have so many different running speeds, this sounds like it would be VERY situational.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Or, the faster characters would be doing this all the time (Sonic, Captain Falcon, Marth, ect.), while slow characters never use it.

 

[VersatileBJN]

lol @ dude who thinks it's not an advanced technique if it's not programmed into the game.

 

[Cubelarooso]

If you mean like Ink Drop as that it was implemented intentionally, then I agree with you, but Im pretty sure we'll still cal it with our own slang

I mean, wasn't the original description of what they thought was a trip-cancel that Ink ran past someone, and then grabbed them behind him with no lag? Sounds like the pivot grab to me.

 

[Thino]

I think Ink Drop was just tripping but we need confirmation of peopl that went to E for All

 

[Finch]

OP, pivoting is programmed into the game. Thus, it isn't an advance technique. Keep searching.

Wow. Do you even speak english? Try using your brain a little and rethink the definition of advanced technique. Use a dictionary to look up each word separately if you get stuck.

Unless your post was satire. It's hard to tell on the internet so it's safer just to assume that everyone posting in general brawl discussion is ********.